The Mandalorian Season 2

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Rise of Skywalker

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There was a ship full of Force-sensitive troopers? I must have missed that part*, possibly due to it being an entire trilogy's worth of plot** packed into the third part of a "trilogy".

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It went by very quick, but when Finn was talking to Jannah - the former stormtrooper lady who they meet on the planet with the crashed Deathstar, who is implied to be Lando's daughter at the very end - Finn explains how/why he rebelled against the First Order; he had 'a feeling' which was supposed to be tied to his force sensitivity. Jannah responds that she too had the same, as did all of the other stormtroopers on the planet who decided not to return to the First Order when their ship crashed.

The implication being that they too are force sensitive, just like Finn, and they all shared the same force-premonition that freed them from the FO's control.

I have now watched the full episode, and I think I was a lot closer than I expected. But not without it's price....

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About halfway through when Mando and the Scooby gang discover the bodies floating in the tanks, they activate the hologram of Dr. Pershing who explains that they had tried to transfuse blood from the Child to volunteers, but ultimately it killed them and now they have run out of blood their experiments can't continue. The reason that they can't use different blood is because "we [will not] find a donor with a higher M-Count".

M-Count. Something starting with 'M' that is found in blood samples.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Prequel Trilogy: Midichlorians.

[Peelee]

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It went by very quick, but when Finn was talking to Jannah - the former stormtrooper lady who they meet on the planet with the crashed Deathstar, who is implied to be Lando's daughter at the very end - Finn explains how/why he rebelled against the First Order; he had 'a feeling' which was supposed to be tied to his force sensitivity. Jannah responds that she too had the same, as did all of the other stormtroopers on the planet who decided not to return to the First Order when their ship crashed.

The implication being that they too are force sensitive, just like Finn, and they all shared the same force-premonition that freed them from the FO's control.

Ahhh, I gotcha. Thanks! I think by that point my brain had largely turned itself off in a desperate attempt to save itself.

I have now watched the full episode, and I think I was a lot closer than I expected. But not without it's price....

Spoiler

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About halfway through when Mando and the Scooby gang discover the bodies floating in the tanks, they activate the hologram of Dr. Pershing who explains that they had tried to transfuse blood from the Child to volunteers, but ultimately it killed them and now they have run out of blood their experiments can't continue. The reason that they can't use different blood is because "we [will not] find a donor with a higher M-Count".

M-Count. Something starting with 'M' that is found in blood samples.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Prequel Trilogy: Midichlorians.

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In their defense, Midi-chlorians are canon so there's no getting away from them if they're going to try to create Force potential.

[dancrilis]

Good Episode.

Spoiler: Chapter 12

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I just don't like the Cara Dune character - every episode with her I am stuck thinking 'just as competant as the mandalorian but doesn't need the armour - this is nonsense' this episode sortof avoided that because he had a jetpack - but still.

However this episode was good and seems to be building to something and tying plots together - and finally explained why 'Imperial Remnant' was looking for The Child in some more detail.

My take nothing to do with Palpatine (anymore then everything is to do with Palpatine) and more to do with super soldiers.

However it does raise some potentially interesting questions.
Where are The Child's parents?
Did The Child have parents?
If not is it possible that Palpatine cloned Yoda, stored him out of the way until he was more mature?
If so it would make sence that the 'Imperial Remnant' would find the notes on him and so might have sought to capture him for their own experiments?

[Peelee]

I feel compelled to point something out about the end of the episode.

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He tried spinning, that's a good trick!

[Palanan]

So, very fun but somewhat goofy episode.

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I mean, it was basically mini-Star Wars, from infiltrating and destroying an armored base to escaping and being pursued by four TIEs, and being saved at the last moment by a daredevil pilot. Fun, but oh so derivative.

As for what those things were at the end—I couldn’t even tell if they were Vader suits or something else, but I’m positive I saw one of them moving in the background.

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Originally Posted by Wraith
...This sounds like a plausible tie-in to Grand Leader Snoke, allowing The Mandalorian to be a direct link between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens.

Plausible, but I really hope this isn’t the case. I’d much rather this show explore new territory than degenerate into nothing more than a string between two movies.

Originally Posted by Peelee
You suck, Abrams….

WORD.

Originally Posted by Berserk Mecha
And what made Mando think that he could instruct the child to be an electrician? The baby barely understands words. Still, it was nice to see the writers try to do something else cute with the child other than having it trying to get food...

If it was an attempt at cute, it didn’t quite score with me. All I could think is what terrible parenting it is to put a child into a potentially deadly working space.

Surely Mando has some sort of miniature maintenance ‘bot for that kind of work?

Originally Posted by Peelee
There was a ship full of Force-sensitive troopers?

Well, maybe. From a certain point of view.

For my part, I just took it to mean that we’re all able to access the Force to some degree—that we can be guided in our instincts in subtle but meaningful ways, helping us with nudges to conscience and empathy.

This is what I took from three viewings of the movie, which is about all I can stand for a very long time to come.

Originally Posted by Wraith
M-Count. Something starting with 'M' that is found in blood samples.

Yup, caught that too. Sigh.

Originally Posted by Peelee
I hate you, Abrams.

I will never get tired of seconding this sentiment.

[Sapphire Guard]

If they're going to tie in to literally everything else it pisses me off that they don't have the guts to actually say 'midichlorians'. Do it, you cowards.

[Peelee]

If they're going to tie in to literally everything else it pisses me off that they don't have the guts to actually say 'midichlorians'. Do it, you cowards.

I read this in Werner Herzog's voice.

[McNum]

I feel a great disturbance, as if I have to point something out and look really, really geeky now.

So be it.

Spoiler: Chapter 12, ending

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Those are Dark Troopers.

The moment I saw them, I recognized them. Dark Troopers. Welcome back from Legends you horrible, horrible monsters, I missed you.

However, if we get Dark Troopers I have one wish for another Legends character to make his glorious return. Because you can't say Dark Troopers without the man who stopped them in his debut video game Dark Forces. The one and only Kyle Katarn. He and Mando would get on nicely.

[Mechalich]

Spoiler: Chapter 12, ending

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Those are Dark Troopers.

The moment I saw them, I recognized them. Dark Troopers. Welcome back from Legends you horrible, horrible monsters, I missed you.

However, if we get Dark Troopers I have one wish for another Legends character to make his glorious return. Because you can't say Dark Troopers without the man who stopped them in his debut video game Dark Forces. The one and only Kyle Katarn. He and Mando would get on nicely.

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They were actually already brought back via Star Wars Commander, a mobile game from 2014. There's actually a lot of Legends stuff that's filtered across into the Disney canon through fairly obscure sources.

[Spacewolf]

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It's a shame Stormtroopers are so toothless, it's difficult to feel danger when they are fighting them because of it. There used to be alot of talk about how the Stormtroopers where only incompetent in 4 because they wanted the heroes to escape, then they were competent during 5 but I think the Ewoks basically sealed their fate as joke characters. Even though they did get some respect during some of the EU books.

[Peelee]

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It's a shame Stormtroopers are so toothless, it's difficult to feel danger when they are fighting them because of it. There used to be alot of talk about how the Stormtroopers where only incompetent in 4 because they wanted the heroes to escape, then they were competent during 5 but I think the Ewoks basically sealed their fate as joke characters. Even though they did get some respect during some of the EU books.

During 6, the stormtroopers took the entire Rebel team captive and were only defeated by the Ewoks due to surprise, confusion, superior numbers of Ewoks and Rebels, Ewok traps already built and in place and unconventional tactics. And even then, they manage to hit a main character.

If anything turned stormtroopers into a joke, it was the followup shows, movies, and Canon books which lean into the "stormtroopers are bad" fandom.

[Spacewolf]

During 6, the stormtroopers took the entire Rebel team captive and were only defeated by the Ewoks due to surprise, confusion, superior numbers of Ewoks and Rebels, Ewok traps already built and in place and unconventional tactics. And even then, they manage to hit a main character.

If anything turned stormtroopers into a joke, it was the followup shows, movies, and Canon books which lean into the "stormtroopers are bad" fandom.

While I agree the stormtroopers did pretty well and where in a bad position, I definitely think it cemented their position as walking jokes.

[Devonix]

While I agree the stormtroopers did pretty well and where in a bad position, I definitely think it cemented their position as walking jokes.

Always remember. The Storm Troopers win every single onscreen engagement in the original trillogy except for the final Ewok fight where they're doublteamed by the Rebels and Ewoks. They beat the Rebels when they're solo.

[Sapphire Guard]

The Endor garrison was intended to crush the Rebel Assault, which it easily did.

They were not designed to face thousands of Ewoks as well, because not even Palpatine could possibly have predicted that the locals could mistake a protocol droid for their God.

They were never actually incompetent, it was just a stupid fandom meme. Until Mando, when they decided to keep referencing the meme even though it sucks most of the tension out of confrontations with the main villains and makes no sense in universe.

[Peelee]

The Endor garrison was intended to crush the Rebel Assault, which it easily did.

They were not designed to face thousands of Ewoks as well, because not even Palpatine could possibly have predicted that the locals could mistake a protocol droid for their God.

They were never actually incompetent, it was just a stupid fandom meme. Until Mando, when they decided to keep referencing the meme even though it sucks most of the tension out of confrontations with the main villains and makes no sense in universe.

I agree with everything except "until Mando". The comics, and more importantly The Clone Wars and Rebels, also push this forth (eg. Rex pretty much claiming that the stormtrooper (not clonetrooper) helmets are crap and is why they can't hit anything). Both Lucasfilm and Disney have pushed this narrative forward on screen. Mandalorian almost certainly does it solely because of Filoni.

[Rakaydos]

I agree with everything except "until Mando". The comics, and more importantly The Clone Wars and Rebels, also push this forth (eg. Rex pretty much claiming that the stormtrooper (not clonetrooper) helmets are crap and is why they can't hit anything). Both Lucasfilm and Disney have pushed this narrative forward on screen. Mandalorian almost certainly does it solely because of Filoni.

Ever since Rogue 1 introduced black-armored troopers, White armored troopers (especially scouts) lost all capability. The black armor gets pulled out when you are expected to take the threat seriously.

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: Stormtroopers

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I was actually somewhat impressed with the stormtroopers in this episode - they were out skilled clearly but they walked over lava flows without complaint, threw themselves off a dangerous cliff edge without hesitation, went up against a tank on bikes (and boarded it nearly to destroy it seemingly).

You can criticise their effectiveness but not really their valour.

[Fyraltari]

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Welp, this is Jedi Outcast but with blood instead of kyber crystals, complete with shadowtrooper armors at the end. I cannot wait for the tyranosaur Dark Jedi and Gideon in a battle suit.

This was my first dip into Star Wars EU (or maybe that was The Glove of Darth Vader but that doesn't count)... Ah nostalgia.

Spoiler: Chapter 12:

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So, it looks like Gideon wants the child to use its blood to clone an army of force-sensative super soldiers. Not exactly a huge or unexpected revelation. It's really incredulous to think that the child's blood would be compatible with the blood of a human. (At least I assume the failures in the vats are human.) But Star Wars was never about hard science so I'll let it slide. Although, considering how all of the volunteers died, it looks like the blood isn't so compatible.

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They might just be trying to extract the midi-chlorians from the blood and injecting that inside the blood-stream.

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And what made Mando think that he could instruct the child to be an electrician? The baby barely understands words.

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Not being able to reach inside that hole, I would guess.

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It went by very quick, but when Finn was talking to Jannah - the former stormtrooper lady who they meet on the planet with the crashed Deathstar, who is implied to be Lando's daughter at the very end - Finn explains how/why he rebelled against the First Order; he had 'a feeling' which was supposed to be tied to his force sensitivity. Jannah responds that she too had the same, as did all of the other stormtroopers on the planet who decided not to return to the First Order when their ship crashed.

The implication being that they too are force sensitive, just like Finn, and they all shared the same force-premonition that freed them from the FO's control.

Spoiler

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I doubt this was supposed to have anything to do with the Force because I want to believe that Abrams isn't that terrible. At the very least even Finn being Force-sensitive is barely being hinted at in the movie so I wouldn't draw any conclusion from that.

During 6, the stormtroopers took the entire Rebel team captive and were only defeated by the Ewoks due to surprise, confusion, superior numbers of Ewoks and Rebels, Ewok traps already built and in place and unconventional tactics. And even then, they manage to hit a main character.

I always thought the imperials where the ones with superior numbers, there?

[HolyDraconus]

Finn being Force sensitive was hinted at in the TRAILERS perhaps, but that ship sailed when instead he was recast as a joke. A really good ( albeit already treaded) story was killed right there.

[Peelee]

I want to believe that Abrams isn't that terrible.

Have you seen Rise of Skywalker?

On a less subjective note, he made spaceships almost entirely irrelevant to Star Trek. In two separate Star Trek movies.

And we can always ask a Lost fan about how that ended up.

I always thought the imperials where the ones with superior numbers, there?

The Imperials outnumbered the rebels, but I got the impression that the rebels with the Ewoks changed that math. It's not really definitive either way, though. And regardless, it is super weird that the Ewoks apparently had traps to crush an enourmous creature between to massive logs. Either they were already prepping to fight the Empire to start with, or to survive, they fight (successfully, it would seem) some wild megafauna on Endor.


ETA: On Finn's Force sensitivity:

In The Rise of Skywalker, Finn spends much of the film trying to tell Rey something which he does not want to say in front of Poe, but this thread is never resolved within the film's runtime and he never gets to tell Rey. While many fans speculated that he was trying to confess romantic feelings for her, at a fan event shortly after the film's release, writer/director J.J. Abrams revealed that Finn was in fact trying to tell her that he is Force-sensitive, something that he suggests at several points throughout the film to Jannah. This potential Force-sensitivity is explored numerous times throughout the trilogy, with Finn's conscience against the First Order and relative lightsaber ability in The Force Awakens, his strong desire to help and be with Rey in The Last Jedi, and his instincts and faith as well as his continued connection to Rey which is seen in The Rise of Skywalker. Nevertheless, some fans and critics considered the thread underdeveloped, and his revelation (or lack thereof) in Skywalker to be anti-climactic. The novelization confirms this, as well as confirming that Rey knows this to some extent, even believing that if Finn were ever to become a Jedi, he would be incorruptible. At their final reunion, Finn attempts to tell her, but she replies, "I know."

Or, to sum up, "jeez Abrams cannot tell a story to save his life."

Anyway, Finn is Force-sensitive.

[dancrilis]

Have you seen Rise of Skywalker?

Best of the sequels - a low bar to be sure.

[Sapphire Guard]

All we get is that there is 'an entire legion' of Imperial troops. Taken literally, that's just a couple of thousand.

Enormous overkill for the Rebel assault, but given, say 30,000 Ewoks in excellent cover, maybe even at a disadvantage?

We're never given clear numbers, it's pretty open to interpretation, deliberately, but it's not at all
unthinkable for the Imperial garrison to lose without being incompetent.

Ewoks hunt big prey, because that trap the party gets caught in has a counterweight that outweighs all of them. Whatever that was set for, it was big.

Spoiler: On Stormtroopers

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Their valour is not really in question. Mando has a problem of them not having any means to hurt the leads, though. Even those 'heavy repeating blasters' could only stagger him, not do any actual damage.

And then we get chases like four TIEs V one armoured transport, and they can't bring it down.

[Fyraltari]

Have you seen Rise of Skywalker?

Alas.

The Imperials outnumbered the rebels, but I got the impression that the rebels with the Ewoks changed that math. It's not really definitive either way, though.

It's really unclear how many ewoks there were but my own reading is "a few dozens".

And regardless, it is super weird that the Ewoks apparently had traps to crush an enourmous creature between to massive logs. Either they were already prepping to fight the Empire to start with, or to survive, they fight (successfully, it would seem) some wild megafauna on Endor.

The ewoks had a trap including a net big (and strong enough) to capture three humans, one wookiee, two droids and their equipment and whose lure was bloody meat. Conclusion: Endor sports some 500-kg carnivores.

ETA: On Finn's Force sensitivity:

Or, to sum up, "jeez Abrams cannot tell a story to save his life."

Anyway, Finn is Force-sensitive.

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[LibraryOgre]

Finn being Force sensitive was hinted at in the TRAILERS perhaps, but that ship sailed when instead he was recast as a joke. A really good ( albeit already treaded) story was killed right there.

I think they still could have gone that way after The Last Jedi... I would not have minded if they pulled a KOTOR2 and had the core cast of the sequels be the new founders of the Jedi Order... but Rise of Skywalker was a hot mess from hyperspace skipping to planet of Death Star Star Destroyers.

[Palanan]

Spoiler: Regarding Stormtroopers

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Originally Posted by Devonix
Always remember. The Storm Troopers win every single onscreen engagement in the original trillogy except for the final Ewok fight where they're doublteamed by the Rebels and Ewoks. They beat the Rebels when they're solo.

The stormtroopers’ first on-screen appearance was pretty devastating. They went through the crew of the Tantive IV like a vibro through hot butter. And despite losing a couple heavy attack vehicles, they pretty conclusively beat the Rebels at Hoth.

Originally Posted by dancrilis
I was actually somewhat impressed with the stormtroopers in this episode - they were out skilled clearly but they walked over lava flows without complaint, threw themselves off a dangerous cliff edge without hesitation, went up against a tank on bikes (and boarded it nearly to destroy it seemingly).

You can criticise their effectiveness but not really their valour.

With the exception of those biker scouts on Nevarro, stormtroopers in The Mandalorian seem to be reasonably competent. The biker scouts in this episode were definitely a cut above.

That said, I don’t know if I’d call it valor when the alternative is a darksaber to the gut. Moff Gideon is clearly running the show in this sector, and we know he’s done some highly visible killing to underscore his authority.

That was always the implicit threat in the OT and Legends as well, with Vader more than willing to prune the ranks if it meant some additional motivation. TIE pilots knew it was better to die pursing their objective than choking and writhing on the deck in front of ol’ Black Boots himself.

Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
And then we get chases like four TIEs V one armoured transport, and they can't bring it down.

If it hadn’t been for Mando in the ‘Crest, they would’ve had the transport once it left the canyon and was out in the open.

Spoiler: Also

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Did anyone else catch the comment about “lava tide”?

And did anyone else really want to see that lava tide?

Spoiler: Finn & The Force

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I am so deeply sorry to learn this.

And I'm not sure how lightsaber proficiency is a blinking light for talent with the Force. At various points in various series, we've seen Pre Viszla, Sabine Wren and Moff Gideon all handle the darksaber, and usually with impressive competence. Does this mean they're all Force-sensitive too?

Not buying it. A knowledge of the Force is certainly valuable for the nuances of saber-wielding, but I don't think you need to be Forceified to use an energy weapon effectively.

[Mechalich]

With regard to Stormtrooper capability, it's worth noting that even within the Stormtrooper Corps there's vast gradations in quality and that quality fell over time due to changes in policy. The leftovers station with remnants in the Outer Rim are generally the absolute dregs of the group: soldiers with disciplinary problems, substance abuse problems, barely qualifying marks in training, gambling problems, whatever, it's the accumulated result of Imperial commanders in the Core, Colonies, and Inner Rim transferring all the scum they didn't want outward for decades, and after the Empire fell the ones still wearing the armor are those without the guts to go independent, surrender and beg for amnesty, or just loot their own bases sell everything not bolted down on the black market and find a new job.

These troopers should be awful, based on circumstances. However, we really do need to see an elite stormtrooper unit in action in a different series set at the height of Imperial dominance to make the point clear (Rebels doesn't really count either way because the ratings constraints Rebels operated under meant everyone was obligated to miss all the time and battles had to be arranged so people could be punched out rather than shot).

The ewoks had a trap including a net big (and strong enough) to capture three humans, one wookiee, two droids and their equipment and wose lure was bloody meat. Conclusion Endor sports some 500-kg carnivores.

Canon supports this. Endor's large and varied megafauna - native and immigrant - was displayed heavily in the two Ewoks films. Those count as Legends canon, and lead character Cindel actually appeared briefly in other works. Those traps specifically were probably for Boar-wolf.

[Peelee]

Spoiler: Finn & The Force

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I am so deeply sorry to learn this.

And I'm not sure how lightsaber proficiency is a blinking light for talent with the Force. At various points in various series, we've seen Pre Viszla, Sabine Wren and Moff Gideon all handle the darksaber, and usually with impressive competence. Does this mean they're all Force-sensitive too?

Not buying it. A knowledge of the Force is certainly valuable for the nuances of saber-wielding, but I don't think you need to be Forceified to use an energy weapon effectively.

Imean, the novels are Canon and explicitly call him out as Force-sensitive. Nothing to buy here, it's pre-paid.

Also, "wanting to help Rey" was a sign of Force sensitivity, because why the hell not goddammit Abrams you're terrible at this.

[Sapphire Guard]

Spoiler: Stormtroopers

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If it hadn’t been for Mando in the ‘Crest, they would’ve had the transport once it left the canyon and was out in the open.

That's not exactly a recommendation. "We would've been able to take them if they completely exposed themselves and had no help."

[HolyDraconus]

Imean, the novels are Canon and explicitly call him out as Force-sensitive. Nothing to buy here, it's pre-paid.

Also, "wanting to help Rey" was a sign of Force sensitivity, because why the hell not goddammit Abrams you're terrible at this.

I mean honestly, I enjoyed KOTOR. And when the trailers first popped I thought THEN that we was getting a variation of the "too old to be a padawan ex bad guy become space samarai" and instead we got....I don't want to say dumpster fire so instead I will say something that feels at odds with the canon that came before it. But again, Finn's role was boiled down to stereotypical comic relief, so stereotypical in fact that the actor called it out.



On topic... ish... I thought the Stormtroopers in Mando are SUPPOSED to be jokes? Like, when Gills McGee is shooting down "crackshot accurate" troopers, I'm not able to take them seriously. Let alone that several TIEs fail to cripple the vessel at very least, LET ALONE that in first initiating the pursuit some troopers DIE. Its like... I can buy Mando shrugging off crap. I can't pay for everyone that's in his current near vicinity ALSO becoming Plot Armor enhanced.

[Peelee]

I mean honestly, I enjoyed KOTOR.

You mean TFA?

I agree with everything else you said, and I agree with everything John Boyega says. That dude deserved so much better, both as a character and as a person. He seems super cool.