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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Does my stat system make sense?

    I've been working on a stat/attribute/ability system for a bit and would really appreciate if the Playground would PEACH it or just let me know if any of this makes sense. Are the names both clear and suitably evocative? I'm especially wondering if "Grit" would make any sense. I wanted to distinguish between the kind of strength that swings a sword and the kind of strength that draws a bowstring and was having trouble pinning down the distinction. The idea of adjacent stats came from wanting stats to not be completely disconnected, does this workaround make sense? I've also put in some stuff about the skill and class systems I'm working on for context because they tie in pretty tightly to this iteration of stat the system.

    Context
    The stats are for a generic-ish system but the focus is high-fantasy adventuring. For full context, a basic roll in this system would be rolling three d20s and taking the middle number as your base result - so the distribution is a parabolic curve peaking at 10/11.

    Reading Stats
    Each stat has a score (say 32) and when a player makes a roll using that stat they add the tens digit - so +3 in this case. A low score would be in the 20s (modifier of +2) and a high score would be in the 60s (modifier of +6). Any use of "modifier" below refers to the tens digit of a stat's score.

    The Stats

    CLARFICATION: Here "stats" covers any general mental or physical ability that is not part of a specific practice or training so in dnd 5e it covers "Attributes", "Saving Throws" and "Skills".

    There are twenty stats total and each stat has three "adjacent stats" which are meant to be related attributes. Each stat is treated symmetrically - if each stat were a point and you put lines between adjacent stats you'd get the dodecahedral graph. The stats are

    Stat Description Adjacent Stats
    Agility Mobility and athleticism. Use to jump over chasms or swing from trapeze. Evasion, Grit, Quickness
    Brawn Sheer strength and muscle. Use to swing mauls or lift weights. Charm, Grit, Hardiness
    Charm Abiltiy to get people to like you. Use to ingratiate yourself with a benefactor or distract with a flirtation. Brawn, Pluck, Zeal
    Dexterity Fine motor control and precision. Use to wield a knife skillfully or to pick pockets. Evasion, Scrutiny, Wits
    Evasion Stealth and ability to go without notice. Use to sneak up on a target or to lose a tail. Agility, Dexterity, Vigilance
    Fortitude Capacity to withstand stress and pain. Use to recover health or to endure something painful. Hardiness, Judgement, Zeal
    Grit Sinewy strength and ability to hold on under strain. Use to wield a bow and arrow or to hang on a ledge. Agility, Brawn, Wits
    Hardiness Health and stamina. Use in calculating health and to shrug off effects of a poison. Brawn, Fortitude, Quickness
    Instinct Gut feelings and survival skills. Use to handle animals or assess a threat or track someone. Judgement, Quickness, Vigilance
    Judgement Insight and wisdom. Use to assess another's motives or to see through deception. Fortitude, Instinct, Memory
    Lucidity Ability to focus and keep a clear head. Use to think straight when impeded or to recognise illusions. Memory, Scrutiny, Vigilance
    Memory Retention and recall. Use to recall general info on something or to research for mentions of it in a library. Judgement, Lucidity, Tact
    Pluck Courage and morale. Use to keep spirits high and hold firm under duress. Charm, Reason, Wits
    Quickness Reaction speed and initiative. Use to outrun someone or to avoid a sprung trap. Agility, Hardiness, Instinct
    Reason Logic and intelligence. Use to decipher a code or understand a formula. Pluck, Scrutiny, Tact
    Scrutiny Invesitagtion and assessment skills. Use to identify an item or find something hidden. Dexterity, Lucidity, Reason
    Tact Subtlety and social graces. Use to persuade or calm someone down. Memory, Reason, Zeal
    Vigilance Perception and awareness. Use to keep lookout or to spot something unusal. Lucidity, Memory, Scrutiny
    Wits Cunning and deception. Use to craft a lie or hide something where it won't be found. Dexterity, Grit, Pluck
    Zeal Forcefulness and ferocity. Use to intimidate or command. Charm, Fortitude, Tact

    Stat Increases
    When you buy a stat increase at character creation/advancement, you increase one stat by 8 and each of its adjacent stats by 2 (EDIT: you increase one stat by 10 and each of its adjacent stats by 4). The general idea for limiting stat growth is a stat can't be more than 20 points bigger than its adjacent stats. This is to prevent a character from going all in on one stat and is meant to reflect that these stats are connected and feed into each other. I might adjust the amount of difference allowed depending on how it plays out at the table - maybe have it tied to level.

    Skill System

    CLARIFICATION: Here "skills" refers to limited areas of expertise that are part of a character's specific training or practice. For example, using bows and arrows is a skill as would be using alchemical tools but acrobatics wouldn't be.

    EDIT: See the post with "REVISIONS" below for how this is being changed.

    There's a skill system with three levels of skill: adept, expert and master. A character would only be expecte to have a small number of skills that are particular to their specialisation. Depending on their level of skill a character adds a different bonus to a roll in addition to their relevant stat's modifier.

    Adept: relevant modifier + half of (the modifer of an adjacent stat + their level).
    Expert: relevent modifier + half of (the modifier of two adjacent stats and their level added together).
    Master: relevant modifier + half of (the modifier of all three adjacent stats and their level added together).

    Connection to Class System
    There are twelve classes and each will be tied to five stats. These are the stats that the class-specific abilities use and the stats the class will boost.(If you look at the dodecahedral graph linked above and think of each point as a different stat then each face/loop with five corners is one of the classes and the corners would be the five stats tied to it).
    Spoiler: The classes are
    Show

    Class Description Associated Stats
    Argosy A walking, talking wellspring of engergy, the argosy channels primal energies and can wield them to great effect. However, the brightest candles burn fastest - their power takes its toll on them. Meant to fulfil and offensive role. Fortitude, Hardiness, Instinct, Judgement, Quickness
    Champion A dedicated and relentless fighter, the champion is driven by powerful emotion to endure hardship and push their allies onward. The champion is meant to fulfil the role of tanks like berserker if driven by rage, paladin if driven by devotion, etc. Meant to fulfil a defensive role. Brawn, Charm, Fortitude, Hardiness, Zeal
    Disciple A practiced and careful operator, the disciple is hard to pin down and able to strike quickly while staying mobile. Meant to fulfil a controller role. Dexterity, Evasion, Lucidity, Scrutiny, Vigilance
    Keeper A vault of secrets and the means to hold it shut, the keeper often stands apart from their comrades but they are invaluable allies. They specialise in strange, witchy ways to outmanoeuvre other mechanations and keep theirs ticking along. Meant to fulfil a defensive role. Instinct, Judgement, Lucidity, Memory, Vigilance
    Knave Someone who operates just outside the bounds of upstanding society, none can deny that the knave gets things done by pursuing any opportunity or advantage without hesitation. This would be the equivalent of the rouge and/or ranger type classes. Meant to fulfil an offensive role. Agility, Dexterity, Evasion, Grit, Wits
    Marshal Somone who makes sure their allies are operating in concert, the marshal sees the strategies at play in any given interaction and devises the best course of action to success. They can also hold their own, helping spearhead forward to the high ground. Meant to fulfil a supportive role. Brawn, Charm, Grit, Pluck, Wits
    Petitioner A source of support and allies for the right price, the petitioner is a conjurer who knows the right words and actions to call upon higher powers to come to their aid. Meant to fulfil a controller role. Fortitude, Judgement, Memory, Tact, Zeal
    Scholar A sage or a nerd depending on your perspective, the scholar is the most knowledgeable and can mobilse complex forces beyond the ken of their allies. Meant to fulfil a controller role. Lucidity, Memory, Reason, Scrutiny, Tact
    Shifter One who adapts fluidly to their situations so that they belong nowhere, the shifter can change their form and abilities to deal with a number of threats. They are often those who stand between order and chaos though they are touched by chaos as a result. Meant to fulfil a defensive role. Agility, Evasion, instinct, Quickness, Vigilance
    Steward A talented and charismatic force of nature, the steward is gifted with power that they can use to bolster allies and wangle their way out of difficult situations. Something of a face for the party. Comparable to a sorcerer or bard. Meant to fulfil a supportive role. Charm, Pluck, Reason, Tact, Zeal
    Warrior The quintessential fighter, the warrior wields their weapons valiantly into battle. Meant to fulfil an offensive role. Agility, Brawn, Grit, Hardiness, Quickness
    Wright Specialised in crafting and maintenance, the wright keeps their allies well equipped - sometimes through unstable, arcane alchemy. Meant to fulfil a supportive role. Dexterity, Pluck, Reason, Scrutiny, Wits

    These are obviously meant to be classes for fantasy adventure but the archetypes they fit are meant to be fairly broad both to give each characterisation and to maybe fit them into different settings at some point.
    Last edited by GaelofDarkness; 2020-09-27 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Typos because I can neither read my own notes nor put things in alphabetical order
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    I can see the logic in your system, and I'm sure the math behind it is very elegant.

    But I also think you've got at least 1 dice per dice roll and 15 stats too many for a system that's actually playable. Then there's your odd method of stat-growth which, while probably very immersive and allowing for a lot of granularity, can result in a character not growing in any way they actually care about, numbers-wise. Then there's the presence of a skill-system (likely consisting of significantly more than 20 skills since they seem to take one attribute as base) which adds even more complexity, especially given that it uses multiple fractions to get to the final result.

    Now, I'm fairly smart and I do get maths, but the amount of stuff this system would expect me to remember and calculate to play, let alone run a game would be a pretty big turn-off.

    I'm sorry if this feels like it is overly harsh btw. I reckon you've actually got some pretty interesting mechanical ideas, but your system as it is is just significantly too complex.
    Last edited by DeTess; 2020-09-16 at 11:43 AM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    So your classes are the faces of a d12. And your ability scores are the points of a d12. And the dice you roll are... not d12s. That feels like a missed opportunity.

    Currently, I can't wrap my head around this enough to offer any other feedback. I might try again later.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    I can see the logic in your system, and I'm sure the math behind it is very elegant.

    But I also think you've got at least 1 dice per dice roll and 15 stats too many for a system that's actually playable.
    OK, disagree that more than two dice is a problem, especially since you only have to compare dice for your base result and I have a dice hoarding problem that needs an excuse. But you raise some other fair points.

    On stats, I should have been clearer and I've obviously caused confusion with my word choice. What I'm calling stats here is what dnd 5e would call "Attributes" AND "Saving Throws" AND "Skills". 5e has "Skills" like Athletics and Acrobatics that would be analagous to an Agility roll here. Insight would be analagous to Judgement. An Intelligence Saving Throw would be kinda analagous to a Lucidity roll. What I was calling skills is more like what dnd calls "Proficiencies" like with weapons or tools or magic and wouldn't apply to general physical or mental traits.

    Considering 5e has got 6 "Attributes" + 6 "Saving Throws" + 18 "Skills" for a total of 30 stats (31 counting Initiative), I'd thought 20 wouldn't be too many. But 5e's stats all tie back to the six "Attributes" so I appreciate that not having that kind of nested design increases complexity.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    Then there's your odd method of stat-growth which, while probably very immersive and allowing for a lot of granularity, can result in a character not growing in any way they actually care about, numbers-wise.
    The idea would be that they'd always have more than one increase to apply at a time and that it always happens out of play - but I see your point that the increases are too minor. I might change increases to +10 for a stat and +3 for its adjacents so there's alway a guaranteed increase in modifier to the stat you're increasing no matter what.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    Then there's the presence of a skill-system (likely consisting of significantly more than 20 skills since they seem to take one attribute as base) which adds even more complexity, especially given that it uses multiple fractions to get to the final result.
    As I said above I probably caused a lot of confusion by calling these skills because they're not like "Skills" in dnd. The idea is a character would have a small number of skills that they'd specialise in like "bows" or "alchemical tools" and would calculate their skill bonus for these things once and have it on their character sheet except for maybe if it changes when they level up.

    The idea is to add the three adjacent modifiers and your level all at once and THEN halve the total so you only divide once - I worded it that way originally but it looked like I was saying you added your whole level after halving the adjacents so I distributed the half, I'll change it again. So my level 6 expert archer with a Grit of 52, Agility of 43, Brawn of 36 and Wits of 48 would have have a bonus of +12 (=5+0.5*(4+4+6), Brawn is the lowest adjacent stat so it gets left out in calculating the expert bonus) to shoot an arrow. Still that's a fair amount of numbers to factor in for a master, so can I see that's a problem. If I cut off the level adjustment and just made it about the adjacents would that be better or still too complicated?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    Now, I'm fairly smart and I do get maths, but the amount of stuff this system would expect me to remember and calculate to play, let alone run a game would be a pretty big turn-off.

    I'm sorry if this feels like it is overly harsh btw. I reckon you've actually got some pretty interesting mechanical ideas, but your system as it is is just significantly too complex.
    No sweat, I appreciate the feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    So your classes are the faces of a d12. And your ability scores are the points of a d12. And the dice you roll are... not d12s. That feels like a missed opportunity.

    Currently, I can't wrap my head around this enough to offer any other feedback. I might try again later.
    Confession, the whole project started when I was trying to find uses for the oft neglected d12. I was trying to think of a way to have different stats be related without needing to nest them inside a higher priority stat (e.g. like how sleight of hand and stealth both tie to dexterity in dnd 5e) and I was looking at a d12 and thought about regular graphs which inspired the adjacent stats idea (if that wasn't already incredibly obvious). Unfortunately, I liked the curve I was getting from rolling three dice and taking the middle but there was just too little granularity with a d12. Adding a single point to a modifier made a huge difference, so I went with its dual, the d20.



    General question: Is the table more legible if I make the adjacent stats the third column rather than the second?
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Tracking 20 stats seems like it is way more effort than it could be reasonably expected to be worth. Is there really a meaningful difference between "Grit" and "Hardiness"?

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by NigelWalmsley View Post
    Tracking 20 stats seems like it is way more effort than it could be reasonably expected to be worth. Is there really a meaningful difference between "Grit" and "Hardiness"?
    Thanks for the input! Grit is basically the stat for using bows while Hardiness works more or less like Constitution of Six Attributes fame. "Grit" doesn't reflect general endurance but the kind of strength that lets you hold back a bowstring while aiming. Not super satisfied with the name though. I can't really find a good term for that particular quality.
    Last edited by GaelofDarkness; 2020-09-16 at 02:47 PM.
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by GaelofDarkness View Post
    On stats, I should have been clearer and I've obviously caused confusion with my word choice. What I'm calling stats here is what dnd 5e would call "Attributes" AND "Saving Throws" AND "Skills". 5e has "Skills" like Athletics and Acrobatics that would be analagous to an Agility roll here. Insight would be analagous to Judgement. An Intelligence Saving Throw would be kinda analagous to a Lucidity roll. What I was calling skills is more like what dnd calls "Proficiencies" like with weapons or tools or magic and wouldn't apply to general physical or mental traits.

    Considering 5e has got 6 "Attributes" + 6 "Saving Throws" + 18 "Skills" for a total of 30 stats (31 counting Initiative), I'd thought 20 wouldn't be too many. But 5e's stats all tie back to the six "Attributes" so I appreciate that not having that kind of nested design increases complexity.
    That'd indeed be a lot more reasonable imho. If the attributes basically fill the roles of skills, saves, etc. all at once, and they're clearly organized, that could work. Basically, if the mechanical numbers on the character sheet are limited to these 20 stats, and basically nothing else, it'd be a lot more manageable, and what I'd been hoping you where going for before mentioning skills separately. Personally, I would still simplify the 'skills' bit, make the calculation for the total modifier easier than having to take half of a lot of different things.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    That'd indeed be a lot more reasonable imho. If the attributes basically fill the roles of skills, saves, etc. all at once, and they're clearly organized, that could work. Basically, if the mechanical numbers on the character sheet are limited to these 20 stats, and basically nothing else, it'd be a lot more manageable, and what I'd been hoping you where going for before mentioning skills separately.
    Yeah, there shouldn't be any other mechanical information beyond like "this spell does this much damage", "you are immune to fire damage", etc. The stats should govern basically everything else in the system. There should be a list that looks something like:

    Agility.....48.....E G Q

    Quote Originally Posted by DeTess View Post
    Personally, I would still simplify the 'skills' bit, make the calculation for the total modifier easier than having to take half of a lot of different things.
    Gotcha. How about:
    Adept: + your best adjacent modifier.
    Expert: + your best adjacent modifier + half your level.
    Masters: + your best adjacent modifier + your level.

    Or actually, maybe:
    Adept: + half your best adjacent modifier.
    Expert: + your best adjacent modifier.
    Masters: + your best adjacent modifier + half your level.

    I want neighbouring abilities to matter but that's really born out of my long-lived pet peeve that the incredibly effective archer can't lift a moderately heavy box in so many rpgs on the tabletop or the computer screen.
    Last edited by GaelofDarkness; 2020-09-16 at 04:43 PM.
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    When comparing to 5e, it's worth noting that only the 6 attributes are really on a 1-20 scale. (Well, a -5 to +5 scale.) Saves and Skills are instead on a "yes/no" scale. You're trained, or you're not. (Well, there's also that Bard/Rogue thing that doubles your proficiency bonus, and that Bard thing that gives you half your proficiency bonus.)

    I understand wanting correlation between stats, but do you really need two different mechanisms for creating the same correlation? The stats are correlated when increasing them. And they're also correlated when calculating your modifier. Wouldn't one or the other be enough?

    I feel one of the major flaws with the d20 system is that there exist numerical increases that do literally nothing. "Yippee! My Con score went from 12 to 13 so... actually nothing happens." I feel like using only the tens-place digit takes this flaw and multiplies it by 5.

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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    I feel one of the major flaws with the d20 system is that there exist numerical increases that do literally nothing. "Yippee! My Con score went from 12 to 13 so... actually nothing happens." I feel like using only the tens-place digit takes this flaw and multiplies it by 5.
    I was thinking the same thing...... unless you're rolling d% for some things, I don't know why you'd even have values that garnular. Even the "increase one stat by 10, adjacent stats by 3" is going to usually be "increase one modifier by 1, adjacent modifiers by 0."

    5e doesn't even have the odd-numbered feat requirements or 10+spell level casting requirements from 3.5e, and even the "every other point is worthless" feels kind of weird. (I did see one "fix" where odd numbers give +1 to checks but not to saves or attack/damage rolls, maybe I'll try that sometime.)



    Although come to think of it, in your system it is impossible to actually have a "nothing" increase, since you're at LEAST bumping one modifier by 1... it just pushes other modifiers towards a cascade of suddenly increasing five modifiers at once.

    So the question is, how much choice do you get over starting stats? If players are able to minmax every stat starting at a round number, every player will do that, and the first few increases will always be kind of meh. But if there's always some randomization, then from the start, every increase chosen will increase the chosen stat's modifier and probably one of the adjacent ones.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    I understand wanting correlation between stats, but do you really need two different mechanisms for creating the same correlation? The stats are correlated when increasing them. And they're also correlated when calculating your modifier. Wouldn't one or the other be enough?
    Yeah, I guess that's fair. It just sort of feels like something that should tie in but something more like PF 2e proficiency system could also be a good fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    I feel one of the major flaws with the d20 system is that there exist numerical increases that do literally nothing. "Yippee! My Con score went from 12 to 13 so... actually nothing happens." I feel like using only the tens-place digit takes this flaw and multiplies it by 5.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogwarrior View Post
    I was thinking the same thing...... unless you're rolling d% for some things, I don't know why you'd even have values that garnular. Even the "increase one stat by 10, adjacent stats by 3" is going to usually be "increase one modifier by 1, adjacent modifiers by 0."

    Although come to think of it, in your system it is impossible to actually have a "nothing" increase, since you're at LEAST bumping one modifier by 1... it just pushes other modifiers towards a cascade of suddenly increasing five modifiers at once.

    So the question is, how much choice do you get over starting stats? If players are able to minmax every stat starting at a round number, every player will do that, and the first few increases will always be kind of meh. But if there's always some randomization, then from the start, every increase chosen will increase the chosen stat's modifier and probably one of the adjacent ones.
    Yeah, having it so each stat increase guarantees at least one increased modifier and avoiding a null increase makes sense to me. The idea of partial increases is exactly to get that cascade effect where a player who is increasing their stats will also see some related stats go up. Actually I think I'll set it to +10 for the primary stat and +4 to each of it's adjacent stats so that increasing each of a stat's neighbours guarantees that it will increase as well. I chose 10 as the number to increase the modifier soley for ease of use because the way dnd-esque ability scores connect to ability modifiers is pretty arcane from the outside.

    The idea for assigning stats at character creation is to have each stat start at 20+d12 rolled in order (So about 15 will start with a base modifier of +2 and 5 with a modifier of +3) and then each character gets three stat increases they can apply as they wish as long as they're to three different stats. At each level increase they get two stat increases that they can apply similarly.
    Last edited by GaelofDarkness; 2020-09-16 at 11:13 PM.
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by GaelofDarkness View Post
    I chose 10 as the number to increase the modifier soley for ease of use because the way dnd-esque ability scores connect to ability modifiers is pretty arcane from the outside.
    Absolutely legit. "Subtract 10 and then divide by 2 lol" seems like a bit of a dinosaur... I suppose that's from the good old days of rolling 3d6 in order.

    The idea for assigning stats at character creation is to have each stat start at 20+d12 rolled in order (So about 15 will start with a base modifier of +2 and 5 with a modifier of +3) and then each character gets three stat increases they can apply as they wish as long as they're to three different stats. At each level increase they get two stat increases that they can apply similarly.
    There we go... so that +3 or +4 or whatever will probably trigger an increase in at least 1 adjacent stat even during character creation. Makes sense.


    Also I do rather like the idea of the "related stats" all on some kind of symmetric graph like you've drawn out. I'm the sort who's occasionally put thought into scrapping the standard elemental system and cooking up something for an rpg based on the Wuxing because shiny symmetric interaction graph.
    Last edited by Frogwarrior; 2020-09-17 at 12:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    My two cents:

    It should works if you manage to get the skills system as "central" from player perspectives, and that characters have skills that are limited in number (~5) but general enough to cover most of their game-play.

    Taking track of 20 stats is two much, but if you're not tracking them outside of level up or corner cases (like the DM explicitly asking for some specific test) and are instead looking at your skill list with pre-computed values, that's fine.

    As a rule of thumb, don't expect your player to remember more than 3 parameters at once, and don't ask them to search for quick ideas on a list with more than 5 elements potentially relevant. Long lists are fine for character creations or other similar low-paced moments, but not during gameplay.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Yeah, like I don't expect a player with a character who isn't charismatic to keep track of stats like Charm except to look it up on their character sheet if it becomes relevant for some specific event. I'd expect a thief player to be conscious of Dexterity and Evasion, a fighter player to be conscious of Brawn and their weapon's to hit and damage, etc.
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    REVISIONS:

    I'd just like to thank everyone again for their input! Having gone back and over with this stuff and some of my players who might use this at some point, the adjustments that have been made are:

    Stat Increases
    Every time you apply a stat increase this increases the score of one stat by 10 and the score of each adjacent stat by 4.

    Stat growth is constrained only by level, not by how close the different adjacent stats are (it was too easy to have a "trapped stat" throwing a wrenchin the works) - so you can apply a stat increase but it can't increase a stat beyond 50 + 10 points for every 5 levels.


    Skill System
    This will basically be dropped from most aspects of play. You no longer get a bonus for using a sword if you have training, instead you are hindered when trying to use one without being trained how to. Additional penalties are applied to ranged weapons or advanced weapons which stack. So it's hard to use a longbow without training but not as hard to use a club without training. This logic will then be applied to magical implements, items, etc.

    The idea of the skill system will still apply to some specific tools/abilities which tie into the "crafting" system which is used to make items, spread rumours, conduct reasearch on new spells, etc. I won't go into detail, but suffice it to say a player draws Tarot cards trying to get enough of each suit, with any drawn Major Arcana providing bonuses if successful. Not getting enough cards causing complications or flaws rather than failure and wasted materials. Adjacent stats and character level will increase the number of cards you can draw - this is intended to be relatively seldom, prepared for in advance and be a chance for a specialist character to have the spotlight for just a few minutes during downtime. This change makes the system optional so it's available to those players interested in the nitty-gritty crunch but isn't necessary to enage with the game.

    I will continue the search for a better word for "grit".
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Maat Mons's Avatar

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Out of curiosity, what stat is used for crossbows? They don't require holding on under strain or sinewy strength.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Well, that depends on how heavy the crossbow is. Keeping a heavy crossbow straight while you set up a shot is most definitely a strain on your arms. For lighter weapons of all sorts you can use Dexterity instead of Grit or Brawn to wield them. So heavy crossbows use Grit and lighter crossbows can use either Grit or Dexterity.
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by GaelofDarkness View Post
    I will continue the search for a better word for "grit".
    Real-life terms are "static strength" or "strength endurance," but I haven't found or come up with a one-word synonym.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Yeah, I've spent a weird amount of time on online dictionaries, thesauruses and tracking down etymologies in search of a better term but I cannot find one. Maybe something like "Thew" but that's really just another word for Brawn.
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    I don't think having a large number of stats is that big of a deal, particularly since the broad scope of each attribute makes the addition of skills on top of that unnecessary. Actions in World of Darkness involve combining a stat relevant to that action being combined with a skill that is appropriate to the situation, resulting in dozens if not hundreds of possible permutations.
    My only concern with having a large number of attributes to worry about is that, when building upon the system, some of them might end up being underused to the point of being forgettable. It seems like all of the stats you've come up with have decently broad scope, though, and there's nothing in particular that looks like it's bound to end up as dump stat fodder.
    "Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    Thanks Vaern! I tried to get a good distribution of stats so that - even though some stats are definitely more useful than others - none would be completely useless. I think Lucidity is probably the weakest stat right now, so I'm going to make sure that some classes have options that build off of it to increase its utility.
    According to easydamus, I'm a 4th level CG elf wizard. Str 9 - Dex 11 - Con 9 - Int 18 - Wis 14 - Cha 16.

    Homebrew setting (or part thereof): Phaunia and the Twilit Between

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Does my stat system make sense?

    I like that stats and think they make sense but you should probably break these up into other categories. you should look at VTM or M&M. this would help you with defining these stats mechanically as well as making it easier to teach.
    Have you accepted the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your Lord and Savior? If so, add this to your signature!
    Beholders are just a meatball that fell out of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    my first game started on a pirate ship
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