controlled mount movement comnfirmation

[Iampower]

"The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it."

by RAW, does a controlled mount move during your turn or does it move just after your turn assuming it has lower dexterity?

[Zhorn]

I'm pretty sure the intent of the RAW is you can have your mount's turn either immediately before or after your's

[greenstone]

If a tie occurs, the DM decides the order among tied DM-controlled creatures, and the players decide the order among their tied characters.

PHB, Chapter 9: Combat, The Order of Combat, Initiative.

If a player controls the character and the mount, then they decide.

[smp4life]

"The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it."

by RAW, does a controlled mount move during your turn or does it move just after your turn assuming it has lower dexterity?

Does this mean by RAW that it is possible for a mountable creature to have multiple turns in a round.
fighter mounts horse rides it then dismounts
rouge mounts horse rides it
barbarian pushes rogue off horse, mounts and rides
etc etc etc

[Zhorn]

Does this mean by RAW that it is possible for a mountable creature to have multiple turns in a round.
fighter mounts horse rides it then dismounts
rouge mounts horse rides it
barbarian pushes rogue off horse, mounts and rides
etc etc etc

Bit of a loophole abuse, but yes

https://twitter.com/armando_doval/status/857270283098628096
Q: "If the controlled mount had higher initiative, it gets a second turn the round it's mounted. Does it get to use all of its movement again?"
A: "Yes"

The rules are placing the mount's initiative into the position of the initiative order to take a turn, rounds are determined by the start and end of initiative order, highest to lowest, but I don't think there's anything saying creature can only have a single turn per round. Initiative sets that condition, but doesn't enforce it.

[Segev]

Do controlled mounts get to do anything but move? If so, this could be really silly.

[x3n0n]

Bit of a loophole abuse, but yes


The rules are placing the mount's initiative into the position of the initiative order to take a turn, rounds are determined by the start and end of initiative order, highest to lowest, but I don't think there's anything saying creature can only have a single turn per round. Initiative sets that condition, but doesn't enforce it.

In one of the Sage Advice podcast segments, the interviewer asked a related pair of questions. As above, he said a mount gets a "second turn" on the uncontrolled-to-controlled transition. When asked, he basically said the controlled-to-uncontrolled transition was an unusual edge case and dodged it. :) I think he'd give anyone trying to exploit that case the side eye. I think 2 turns' worth of movement in one round without dashing, once per combat, is probably enough. :)

[MaxWilson]

Do controlled mounts get to do anything but move? If so, this could be really silly.

Dodge, make opportunity attacks, make per-turn saving throws.

[Segev]

Dodge, make opportunity attacks, make per-turn saving throws.

So the biggest abuse you could likely do would be to chain mounting and dismounting via some means to give the steed multiple opportunity attacks in a round.

This falls, I think, under "funny, but too much effort to exploit to be worth it" dysfunctions.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Does this mean by RAW that it is possible for a mountable creature to have multiple turns in a round.
fighter mounts horse rides it then dismounts
rouge mounts horse rides it
barbarian pushes rogue off horse, mounts and rides
etc etc etc

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the rule, but I'm not sure I'm understanding how this works.

Fighter:
1. mounts the horse = his turn occurs before the horse. Fighter's turn ends before the horse's turn begins and horse can move.
2. The horse then gets his turn and moves
3. The Fighter dismounts...using his held action for additional movement?

Is that what's meant here?

I see how Rogue's turn works fine. He mounts and ends his turn, the horse moves on its turn.

Barbarian:
1. uses part of his action to shove rogue off horse (so no held action), mounts horse. Barbarian ends his turn.
2. horse gets its turn and moves.

Am I getting those correct? Is that what you're saying?

[Kurt Kurageous]

I'm pretty sure the intent of the RAW is you can have your mount's turn either immediately before or after your's

Ok, so how do I ride up to one foe, smack them to death, then ride up to the next foe and deliver more death? If the mounts turn is not simultaneous, this is impossible. RAW is badly written. My house rule: contolling a mount means the character gets the movement of the mount as long as they remains mounted and in control. The mount can still do stuff like dodge/save/attack, but that's concurrent with your turn, not before or after.

While on the subject, I think everyone proficient with land animals should be advantaged in melee vs targets smalled than the mount (as stated in Mounted Combatant) Alternately MC should be a half feat with an ASI in STR or DEX. But nobody listens to me anymore since I changed my name from Jeremy Crawford.

Quit Nerfing Marshals !!!

[x3n0n]

Ok, so how do I ride up to one foe, smack them to death, then ride up to the next foe and deliver more death? If the mounts turn is not simultaneous, this is impossible. RAW is badly written. My house rule: contolling a mount means the character gets the movement of the mount as long as they remains mounted and in control. The mount can still do stuff like dodge/save/attack, but that's concurrent with your turn, not before or after.

My understanding based on that Sage Advice podcast interview is that your house rule is almost RAI for controlled mounts. Concurrent turn, action options are dash/dodge/disengage, their movement moves both of you.

An *uncontrolled* intelligent mount gets free use of its action, but its movement must occur on its turn, not yours. (Again from listening to Jeremy, not claiming to have gotten this from close RAW reading.)

[Valmark]

RAW it says that a controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it, which would be impossible if a controlled mount had their turn before or after their rider's- so yeah, they are simultaneous.

[Spriteless]

When you get on a mount, you gain it's movement speed. Any movement subtracts from all movement speeds you have. If move 10 feet, get on a mount with a speed of 60 feet, then you have only 50 feet to move that round on the mount.

At least, according to Never Stop Thinking's video.

I guess RAW, you could have a bunch of characters mount a hippogrif to give it a claw attack, then the next character throws off the current rider to mount the hippogrif and give it another turn? How many mountable creatures have better actions than the characters who can mount them? Is the dreaded rules lawyer dragon gonna keep a bunch of kobolds to jump on it's back to make this happen?

[Valmark]

When you get on a mount, you gain it's movement speed. Any movement subtracts from all movement speeds you have. If move 10 feet, get on a mount with a speed of 60 feet, then you have only 50 feet to move that round on the mount.

At least, according to Never Stop Thinking's video.

I guess RAW, you could have a bunch of characters mount a hippogrif to give it a claw attack, then the next character throws off the current rider to mount the hippogrif and give it another turn? How many mountable creatures have better actions than the characters who can mount them? Is the dreaded rules lawyer dragon gonna keep a bunch of kobolds to jump on it's back to make this happen?

That's regarding a creature with different movement speeds, which is not the same as mounting a creature- to mount a creature you need at least half of your remaining speed (which is consumed mounting) and then the mount can move with all of its movement.

Also, that doesn't work- in order to attack a mount needs to be Independent, and if is then it only gets its own turn. To get multiple turns it must be a Controlled mount, which means it can't attack.

[Zhorn]

Do controlled mounts get to do anything but move? If so, this could be really silly.

I guess RAW, you could have a bunch of characters mount a hippogrif to give it a claw attack, then the next character throws off the current rider to mount the hippogrif and give it another turn? How many mountable creatures have better actions than the characters who can mount them? Is the dreaded rules lawyer dragon gonna keep a bunch of kobolds to jump on it's back to make this happen?

Only controlled mounts have their initiative move to match that of the rider, and the only actions a controlled mount has are Dash, Disengage, or Dodge (PHB p198)
Independent (uncontrolled) mounts can attack as bearing a rider puts no restrictions on the actions it would normally be able to take, but they retain their own position in initiative order.

Ok, so how do I ride up to one foe, smack them to death, then ride up to the next foe and deliver more death? If the mounts turn is not simultaneous, this is impossible. RAW is badly written. My house rule: contolling a mount means the character gets the movement of the mount as long as they remains mounted and in control. The mount can still do stuff like dodge/save/attack, but that's concurrent with your turn, not before or after.

Agree that the written rules for it ARE badly written.
I also agree that house ruling it to be you just gain the benefit of the mount's movement concurrently on your turn and the mount's action as are also concurrent is a better way to run it, less headaches, more fun. I would recommend people play this way.

But The RAW for initiative doesn't agree with concurrent turns

INITIATIVE
...
If a tie occurs, the DM decides the order among tied DM -controlled creatures, and the players decide the order among their tied characters. The DM can decide the order if the tie is between a monster and a player character. Optionally, the DM can have the tied characters and monsters each roll a d20 to determine the order, highest roll going first.

You pick an order. In the case of mounting on your turn, that automatically eliminates the choice of 'before your turn' as at that point in time it wasn't a controlled mount (or at least not one with the same position in initiative as you), so it has to go after your turn finishes.

As far as movement and attacks go, it's clunky, but maybe somewhat doable by RAW if you rule a ready/held action si the same as the action being readied/held.
Controlled mount goes first
Movement up to enemy #!.
Action; hold remaining movement to move to next enemy within remaining movement range (enemy #2) if enemy #1 dies.
end turn

Player's turn
Attack action (assuming extra attack), attacking enemy #1
assuming killing enemy #1
> Mount's held movement triggers, move to enemy #2
Finish remaining Attack action on enemy #2

Clunky as all hell, better off just using the simpler house rule.

[Segev]

Only controlled mounts have their initiative move to match that of the rider, and the only actions a controlled mount has are Dash, Disengage, or Dodge (PHB p198)
Independent (uncontrolled) mounts can attack as bearing a rider puts no restrictions on the actions it would normally be able to take, but they retain their own position in initiative order.

To check my understanding of controlled mounts then, if I'm a gnome wizard/rogue on a riding dog, I have my dog's movement rate, it can take the dash action to (effectively) double that, and I can still cast a spell and dash with my bonus action to move my dog's speed yet again?

Or am I missing something that limits that?

[Valmark]

To check my understanding of controlled mounts then, if I'm a gnome wizard/rogue on a riding dog, I have my dog's movement rate, it can take the dash action to (effectively) double that, and I can still cast a spell and dash with my bonus action to move my dog's speed yet again?

Or am I missing something that limits that?

Correct until dashing with the bonus action. It's your dashing so you would double your own movement, not the dogs'.

[Segev]

Correct until dashing with the bonus action. It's your dashing so you would double your own movement, not the dogs'.

Okay. So I get all my actions, and it gets all of its (within the limits stated), so riding a controlled mount gives you essentially double its movement unless it needs to disengage or you really want it defensive, while you still can do anything other than move on your own from its back. That's pretty amazing; I wonder why we don't see more pony-riding halflings.

[Zhorn]

Riding-dogs are one of the best parts about playing small races.
Combat, Roleplay, Exploration, they make everything better.