Results 31 to 60 of 261
-
2020-09-18, 07:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
A dragon is a fearsome foe. Until a jet of liquid metal goes through it's head.
Modern armies are combined arms units. There isn't just a battalion of men involved. There is artillery support, armor (even if it's just a Bradly), attack choppers and drones. In addition modern body armor would actually be very good at stopping most weapons from Faerun. The arms and legs are unprotected, but the head and torso would be more or less immune from the effects of slashing and puncturing weapons. The soldier would just have a bruise. And arrows? If those hit body armor the soldier might not even notice. Body armor would also blunt spells like Magic Missile. Of course that's if a mage got into range. Remember drones? The soldiers are going to know a lot more about the enemy than the enemy will about them. Drones and many soldiers also have such things at night vision goggles and inferred sensors.
In the end though what will give the modern soldiers a huge advantage over anything in Faerun is they adapt, change, modify at a rate the people of Faerun could not comprehend.Member of the Giants in the Playground Forum Chapter for the Movement to Reunite Gondwana!
-
2020-09-18, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
I don't much about the setting, is it feasible to just drop some types of ghosts or something else that just can't be hurt with non magic physical weapons on the modern army?
My general rule out thumb for modern army against magic is (if you assume the mages actually make effective use of their magic), pure blasting should ordinarily be outmatched by modern weapons but if you add the right types of other magic then if the number mismatch is not to extreme I expect it to go to the mages. Tech has no defense against scrying, teleport or mind control beyond alertness. Combine those efficiently and your enemy either has no leaders anymore or worse leader that are your puppets. I guess it might still be fairer than harry potter mages (if they were deadly efficient and ruthless with their magic. Harry potter magic is really weak offensively but beside teleport, mind control and shapechanging they also have magic that can make a building completely undetectable if you don't find the secret keeper. If you can't find an enemy even if you know where their bases are and they can just teleport somewhere and enslave your leader? Yeah that would be a guerilla warfare nightmare. Though their numbers are real small.)
-
2020-09-18, 08:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
They wouldn't be fighting a Faerun knights battalion in an urban guerilla warfare environment. Also, modern warfare like you're thinking of doesn't even exist anymore. Putting a battalion of soldiers on a field and telling them to fight an enemy is intrinsically unfair. Modern warfare is conducted at large range with artillery. Boots on the ground are a last resort.
-
2020-09-18, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Originally Posted by Forum Explorer
Honestly though, a preliminary bombardment or bombing….
Originally Posted by Forum Explorer
Combined with snipers set up to target important people leaving the city, and most of those mages would be wiped out day 1.
As for snipers, Invisibility is a second-level wizard spell and Fly is a third-level wizard spell, so I’m not sure how snipers would be targeting a dozen invisible flying wizards.
Yes, they’ll become visible when they cast an offensive spell (apart from those with Greater Invisibility), but the modern soldiers, thanks to their training, will be looking for human targets on the ground or on rooftops, not hovering in the sky hundreds of feet directly above them. To the modern soldiers, they’ll be taken by surprise by spell effects they’ve never seen before, and they’re more likely to be looking at the ground for IEDs than in the air directly above them.
Even if they do manage to spot human figures hundreds of feet above them, that's so far out of their experience they'll need to overcome their disbelief--and even after that they'll need to be firing their weapons effectively straight up, which may have some negative consequences for their unit.
Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
The way modern training works is that it gives a very short period of time to fire at a human shaped silhouette, which means that modern soldiers are conditioned to reflexively shoot at human targets….
No one in today's army is trained to fight fantasy monsters. That will be an immense psychological disadvantage, because for a modern soldier seeing a xorn up close is the stuff of nightmares. For a dwarven druid it's Tuesday.
Originallly Posted by GloatingSwine
Every different way an enemy is attacking you is called a "form of contact", and the more forms of contact a soldier is exposed to at once, the more training it takes to remain functional.
Think about a flash-bang. That’s disorienting enough to deal with. But every new spell attack will have the same effect as a flash-bang, all different and all dangerous. That’ll be complete sensory and cognitive overload.
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
In addition modern body armor would actually be very good at stopping most weapons from Faerun.
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
Remember drones? The soldiers are going to know a lot more about the enemy than the enemy will about them.
Also, scrying is available to at least a dozen of the defending casters, so that’s a lot of remote intel that again, the soldiers will have no idea is even being conducted.
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
Drones and many soldiers also have such things at night vision goggles and inferred sensors.
(Also, I presume you mean infrared sensors, and that autocorrect worked its evil ways on your sentence.)
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
In the end though what will give the modern soldiers a huge advantage over anything in Faerun is they adapt, change, modify at a rate the people of Faerun could not comprehend.
In the example of Silverymoon, they have all manner of threats to contend with, and there’s no reason to believe they’re any less capable for having met them. Plus, never forget the defenders are in their own world, in their own country, defending their own homes. That's a powerful advantage in itself.
-
2020-09-18, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
We should assume that the soldiers are as familiar with general fantasy tropes as typical young men from our time. And the Forgotten Realms are as tropey as any fantasy setting gets. I am sure, half the army would be able to guess that the strange robed person with the glowing staff is some kind of important wizard, after the first spell flies and they realize, that this is some kind of Isekai situation. In the same vein, someone could guess to try silver or other exotic metals if they encounter an untouchable spectre. Or even try if a holy symbol works (would a symbol from our world work?).
On the other hand, modern warfare is completely unknown to the Forgotten Realms side. They would probably take some costly losses that they cannot afford, before they learn what a modern army can do and how it works.Last edited by Seppl; 2020-09-18 at 09:39 AM.
-
2020-09-18, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Derby, UK
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
There is a significant probablity you can go one step further and note that said soldiers may contain folk actually be roleplayers intimately familiar with the Realms specifically and thus, after their initial surprise that This Is Actually Happening, will have a very good idea of what the limitations are and how to counter them (and if not, it's a simple trip back to look it up on the internet).
Perhaps, dangerously meta-ly, they might start a thread exactly like this one on a roleplay board and then take specific note of all the counters everyone brings up and then work out how to apply them.
At which point, to get around that, you need to be much more specific than "modern soldiers." Whose? Earth's? The Aotrs? ('Cos that would be an entirely different debate entirely, I can tell you.) Heck, which Earth? If Earth's, which nation? America? Germany? Russia? Austrailia? Latveria? And, in that country, which branch? The regular army? The marines? The SAS? S.h.i.e.l.d? The DEO? What date? Now, i.e. 2020? (And then, is Corona a factor?)
All these questions need to be sensibly anserwed.
-
2020-09-18, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
I think the assumption should be that they are from a world like ours except for that setting and game system not existing. Otherwise I think it gets a bit silly unless the intended topic is supposed to be about the very uneven starting information.
-
2020-09-18, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Right behind you!
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
It largely depends upon what D&D edition and how optimized the casters are. Though I am going to be assuming that the regiment has some idea of what they're up against and don't freak out the first time they see a wall of fire or an earth elemental being summoned.
If it's 3.5 and full-on tippy-verse optimization, no question that Faerun wins because the 18th level wizard is basically a demi-god, and can spend a century in their private demi-plane prepping thousands of countermeasures to unleash etc.
If it's 3.5 with the optimization of the modules or novels, then it would likely depend upon whether the regiment can call down artillery & air support and have armor assets. If they have the support, then the regiment would win.
If it's 2e, then it's similar to 3.5 except the tippy-verse isn't quite so crazy.
If it's 4e, the regiment wins. No question - hands down. Nothing in 4e has a long enough range to be threatening so long as they keep their distance. They don't need air support.
In 5e I'd again give the edge to the regiment if they have the artillery & air support to call down (might not need the tanks), but a likely a bloody victory to Faerun if it's just the infantry.
-
2020-09-18, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
If it is a battalion, against the entire FR, then, sure, the FR are going to win. The soldiers will run out of ammo long before the FR runs out of creatures to throw at them. But by the same token, any army from the FR coming to modern Earth is going to be wiped out if they attack, by attrition if nothing else.
Same number of people, with the same amount of training, on both sides? (By training, I'm simply going years. Take a group of soldiers trained for a year, or two, or five, and put the other side with adventurers with the same length of training.) I think the Earth group wins, depending on how long it takes a wizard to learn their craft. If that's anything more than a year of training to get to fifth level, the FR loses.
World vs world? Curb stomp in favor of Earth. As soon as Earth figures out that they are in a full on battle for their existence against a planet that is not their own, it's time to use the nuclear weapons that are enough to wipe out everything on the planet several times over. Bunker buster nukes to break into and wipe out the Underdark, high yield nukes hitting every place that more than 100 sapient beings have gathered, and so on. Invisibility and flying aren't going to help someone when a fireball four kilometers in diameter vaporizes everything, and a blast wave that kills pretty much everything for another kilometer or so beyond that. Any casters that have survived all of this are now just trying to survive the wasteland left behind, rather than bringing the fight. Divine intervention would be the only thing that could turn it around for the FR. If you say the gods can turn all of the nukes into flower pots, eliminating the threat, then there's no point in making the comparison since the FR wins by plot armor.
-
2020-09-18, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Derby, UK
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
But if it doesn't exist specifically, it will almost certainly exist conceptually - how many fictional Earths either have D&D or an equivilent, after all? Let alone fictional and fantasy media in general.
You can't disregard that a modern soldier WILL be more genre-savvy than a peasant in Faerun; pretty much by definition, the modern soldier will have been exposed to mass-media and fiction therein- else you are NOT comparing a modern Earth military. It's a fundemental part of the structure (mass-media) that allows advanced technology to exist at ALL, at the end of the day. A modern earth where concepts such as "wizard" or "dragon" are completely unknown and unheard of in some form or other ceases to be a valid point of comparison, as at the point you have diverged the culture that far, you're not talking about modern warfare at all, you're essentially talking about an entirely fictional one, so the answer is "whatever you want the answer to be."
And that could quickly escalate into forbidden territory if you asked the question of "but does Earth have any gods that can or will say 'no, they don't.'" (Which is as far as anyone should take that line of thinking in-thread.)
-
2020-09-18, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
My question is a bit different: What ability do the magic-users have to replace losses and resupply? I suspect it's a lost easier to train a modern soldier to the level of a conscript than it is to train a high-level magic user. If the magic users are few and they cannot replace their losses , they will eventually lose.
Of course, if this really happened it is extremely unlikely that the battle would remain purely "magic vs. modern soldiers" for long. If I were a wizard from Faerun, I'd be trying to recruit local despots or countries to serve as my cannon fodder and allies. Rather than directly opposing modern armies with my magic, I'd use my magic to buff and improve existing armies, to much greater effect.
And of course the converse applies as well; modern armies will both attempt to recruit magic users and to study magic as a phenomenon in the abstract.
The upshot is, within a generation armies in this modern world will both understand magic and field magic users as part of a larger combined arms strategy. Perhaps some of these armies were originally founded by colonists from Faerun, perhaps not, but their evolution will converge regardless of their respective origins.
ETA: There was actually a series of novels called The Empires Trilogy which focused on war in the Forgotten Realms. It was mostly fought by ordinary soldiers using medieval weapons; high-level magic users were rare enough, even in that setting, that they didn't participate frequently in wars between nations. I think after thirty years it's not really a spoiler to point out that, in the story, the one country that had a flying legion of wizards did not fare well against soldiers from their world with better tactics and generalship.
E Again to add: I see I got the scenario reversed and we have a modern army invading Faerun. Well, in this case I think a modern's army true advantage lies in logistics and organization, not necessarily in weapons or ability to kill. The ability to move troops and supply on modern roads, the use of scouting helicopters or drones, the use of radio, allows them to strike swiftly and gain intelligence to react far more quickly than their opponents. Modern technology allows a much tighter OODA (orient-observe-decide-act) loop than medieval technology does even if a small number of the opponents can use telepathy, scrying, etc. I don't believe there are enough high-level magic users to tilt the balance permanently when the rest of their society is overwhelmingly medieval. What is available to a few high-level magic users is available to even third-world modern armies en masse. Technology is magic for the masses.
I think what happens is the same as in my original: Social evolution. The modern army will recruit local allies who can use magic. Even if the modern army is defeated someone will find them useful to ally with, and the power of magic + modern technology will prove unbeatable, until other countries are able to imitate their success. The result is , ultimately, a modern world with modern organization supplemented by magic users. Faerun would not survive in its classic form.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2020-09-18 at 11:01 AM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
-
2020-09-18, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Location
- Tijuana, México.
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
There's an anime that kinda simulates this, although in a low-magic setting. Its name is Gate: Jieitai Kano Chi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri, which translates to: Gate: Thus the Japanese Self-Defense Force Fought There, some interestng topics are shown, apostles are still stronger than humans and are impervios to weaponry, and an old enough dragon doesn't mind bullets to its face.
Check out which is the Playground's favorite Dragon!
>> My Extended Signature <<
Hey guys, I'm a vestige! And a spell!
Awesome avatar by Cuthalion.
-
2020-09-18, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Who would be stupid enough to fire bullets at a dragon when you can fire linked radar-guided 23mm cannons firing at 1000 rounds per minute ? That's forty year old technology at this point. See video .
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2020-09-18 at 11:08 AM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
-
2020-09-18, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
The invisible people presumably are already in earth cities already taking out/over leaders if earth had time to bring over nuke. If the war doesn't escalate quickly to that they will know about nukes because questioning some earthlings about our worst weapons is logical and everyone knows about nukes. So what protection does earth have against a team of wizards scrying someone high in the government of a nuclear power, teleporting in to get the information about the crew of an active nuclear submarine, scrying someone there and then teleporting in and dominate the right people to fire those nukes on earth? If earth opens with nukes and can get them over quickly, sure there is little you can do beside divine intervention. But scrying, teleport and mind control is a devastating combo against someone with zero magical defenses and low saves.
-
2020-09-18, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
The question is what this battalion or regiment actually has at its disposal. An infantry regiment may not even have anti-air. And then we have questions like supply lines and communications.
I think the Faerun city would win, if it knows about it beforehand. All it needs is someone to scry for the top officers, get close without being noticed, and charm them. There are a lot of reasons in war why an attack may be halted, the soldiers aren't going to complain.Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
-
2020-09-18, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Every modern army I can think of is more likely to advance into battle naked as it is without some form of air defense, even if it's no more than MANPADS. Any regiment should have at least one air defense company , consisting of both SAMs and AAA. And, of course, no modern nation would invade another one by sending out one regiment in isolation; they would support them with their air force.
ETA: And if the regiment isn't supported, Faerun wins without any magic whatsoever. Simply step back and wait for the modern regiment to run out of gas, then send out level 1 fighters to round up the now-dismounted crew. Same with infantry: After a few engagements they're out of ammunition and their pretty rifles are no more than overly complex clubs.
If I were a regimental commander who found his regiment teleported to another world, conquering a local country would be the last thing on my mind. I'd be more interested in getting back to the war I was actually supposed to be fighting. At worst, I'd hire out as a mercenary band in exchange for the gold necessary to pay a high level wizard to get us the heck out of here and back to the land of Mcdonald's, Burger King, and Starbuck's.
ETA: And again, because of the aforementioned inability to replace fuel or ammunition, I'd be hiring out "technical advisors" rather than deploying my own combat units directly. We need to conserve that, because once it's gone we won't get it back, not until we can pay someone to research 'create diesel'.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2020-09-18 at 11:29 AM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
-
2020-09-18, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
-
2020-09-18, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Army versus army, modern soldiers have the edge, but in asymmetric warfare, Faerunites have it.
More specifically: on open terrain or fighting from a fortified position, modern infantry with token machine gun support can slaughter masses of cavalrymen, orc hordes, giants etc.. This scenario has essentially been tested in real life. Faerun forces would need massive archery and blaster wizard support to overcome their disadvantage.
Modern infantry wouldn't be that good in siege warfare; however, modern artillery so massively outperforms and outranges Faerun tech that they'd just reduce their cities to rubble.
However, Faerun is full of individually extremely dangerous creatures that would be close to impossible for modern forces to deal with. I'm not talking about dragons or other fliers - those are fairly easily handled by modern anti-air tactics and equipment. It's things like incorporeal undead, teleporting demons, pixies etc.. What is a modern force supposed to do about a spectre appearing in their camp at night? Or a succubi disguised as non-combatants sneaking behind their supply lines and charming the pants off of everyone? Sooner or later, a modern army in Faerun would be subverted and incapacitated by those magical creatures that can't reliably be held in check by non-magical means.
-
2020-09-18, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Assuming our regiment has anti-air, does it have anti-underground? Because this is D&D, where monsters burrow at a walking pace. Let's take ankhegs, they can get close, emerge, and grab people. But, even if they don't, they can be used to create tunnels which I assume can be rigged for a number of uses. I guess you could flood the regiment. Or you could use the tunnels to unleash rust monsters on the armour during the night, I don't know if their ability makes any sound.
Is it possible to craft a magical trap that casts polymorph on any creature that passes by and tries to turn it into a rust monster?Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
-
2020-09-18, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
As said, it depends on edition, but one point...
It becomes substantially more effective if your enemies brought gunpowder to a fireball fight. A single fireball, even if it didn't kill anyone itself, could cook off most of their ammo, and that's going to smash magazines and the like, if it doesn't cook off grenades or other explosive weaponry (at which point, the magazine doesn't matter).The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
-
2020-09-18, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Raleigh NC
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
There are a couple of potential countermeasures I see:
1) This is only really useful if the regiment stays in one place for an extended period of time. Being able to tunnel somewhere at a walking pace isn't going to be terribly useful in a mobile campaign. Though it would have some application in stalemated WW1-style trench warfare.
2) This has been attempted in the modern world without magic . It looks to me like the kind of trick that would work once. Afterwards, the regiment will adapt audio equipment to listen to, say, the noise of thousands of ankhegs tunnelling under their feet. That's assuming they don't already have dedicated sonar intended originally for finding land mines. From there it's a matter of isolating where they are, and either countermine or simply collapse their tunnel with explosives. Mining and countermining have been a part of nonmagical warfare since ... I guess the Trojan War? The Siege of Ambracia, at any rate.
Is it possible to craft a magical trap that casts polymorph on any creature that passes by and tries to turn it into a rust monster?
ETA: We can't assume that either side will immediately adapt the optimal strategy to fight the other side. Even if we have gamers in the modern army and scryers of other planes in the magical, there's still a lot they don't know about each other. Expect a lot of trial and error and muddling through before a resolution is reached, not the immediate selection of the optimal strategy by either side.
Which means that a lot of the war is going to be decided by who can collect the best intelligence, make the best allies, best understand both themselves and their enemy, then apply a solution which matches their strengths to the other side's weaknesses. Both sides have considerable advantages and problems. The winner is the one who can best adapt.
Respectfully,
Brian P.Last edited by pendell; 2020-09-18 at 12:29 PM.
"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
-
2020-09-18, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
This is where things really break down. Because the question wasn't 'what happens if an army invades my D&D world?' it was 'what happens when an army invades Faerun?' which we have a ton of fluffy books for. And in those books impalement is a big deal. Same with losing limbs and the like. Basically, a grievous injury in real life would be a grievous injury in the books.
I was presuming artillery mostly. For sake of the OP, I'm guessing Army only, no Air Force or Navy.
Considering how wizards dress and where they live, they are not hard to figure out as a VIP. Ditto with Clerics. As others have pointed out, this is a modern army. While for the sake of argument, I'd say they don't know of Faerun or D&D specifically, they should know about fantasy worlds in general. Otherwise they aren't actually a modern army.
Seriously though, Faerun is a big place. Where is the army showing up? A war in Thay would be much different than fighting in Silverymoon, which would be different from fighting in Chult.
I mean, Thay would be a war of liberation, where you could recruit slaves as you went. But you'd fight a bunch of undead (mostly zombies and not a threat, but they would have other stuff too), and of course the infamous Red Wizards.
Silverymoon would be hard to justify invading for most modern armies. Blah blah blah, politics, there are some who would do it anyways. Look at what nations you think would do it, they use different tactics than other nations, so where the modern soldiers come from is the big factor here.
Chult is like Vietnam almost, but the locals are friendly, except when they are actually snake people, the plants are literally trying to eat you and there are dinosaurs around every corner. It's like gurrelia warfare except there is no actual opponent. Everything just wants to kill you.
They can literally ressurect their dead so they do have that going for them.
But you do bring up a good point in a different way. The modern army will begin recruiting locally for guides as well as just treating the locals well, and typically they can provide much more and better stuff than what already exists in the setting.
Which, hilariously, means they'd have the same solution to succubi, wraiths and other weird magic creatures that the cities do. Hire some adventurers to take care of it for you.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
-
2020-09-18, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- right behind you
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
I would like to quibble a bit about salvatore considering the kind of shenanigans he had cadderly pulling out of his hindquarters. As an example, in book 4 of the cleric quintet, cadderly uses magic to make an ancient red dragon think they are best friends, and proceeds to use him to literally obliterate a massive army of giants ogres and goblins. Then, when the red dragon breaks free of the mind control effect, proceeds to de-age him to the point where a dwarf druid and warrior, a human monk, and an exhausted cleric can kill him. (There might have been more, its been awhile since I read the story) That doesnt even take into account some of his other odd magic during that battle like animating a canyon exit to EAT the enemy army as they try to pass through. So yeah, when a caster is the main character, he has absolutely no issues with making said caster hilariously overpowered.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
-
2020-09-18, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Derby, UK
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
But Fireball doesn't do that in most editions of D&D. Getting with with a Fireball doesn't set off your vials of alchemist's fire (on instantly blow-up your gunslingers in fire-arms allowed D&D games, e.g. PF1), so it's not going to set off modern ammunition, either. (If you roll a nat 1 on your reflex save and take item damage AND that item happens to have explosives in it, you might get unlucky.)
MAYBE more plausible in AD&D an earlier, but then you're dealing with a LOT less powerful enemies overall, aside from at the very top spell-casters, and even THEY aren't as powerful then.
This is extremely true.
-
2020-09-18, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
The soldiers would do well until they ran into one of the many "immune to non-magic" creatures and then all die. When a single werewolf or wraith can kill your entire army you are going to have a bad time.
-
2020-09-18, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- right behind you
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
-
2020-09-18, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Originally Posted by Seppl
We should assume that the soldiers are as familiar with general fantasy tropes as typical young men from our time.Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander
There is a significant probablity you can go one step further and note that said soldiers may contain folk actually be roleplayers intimately familiar with the Realms specifically and thus, after their initial surprise that This Is Actually Happening, will have a very good idea of what the limitations are and how to counter them….
I’ve gamed with a lot of military guys, and I know that gaming is widespread on boats and bases around the world, but rolling a d20 and adding some numbers does not make you an effective combatant against magical beasts and undead.
Originally Posted by Vinyadan
The question is what this battalion or regiment actually has at its disposal. An infantry regiment may not even have anti-air. And then we have questions like supply lines and communications.
Originally Posted by pendell
Modern technology allows a much tighter OODA (orient-observe-decide-act) loop than medieval technology does even if a small number of the opponents can use telepathy, scrying, etc.
Druids can do this directly, by observing in animal form—and they can do this from substantial altitude as birds of prey.
Rangers can do this by proxy, with spells like Speak With Animal, and since they know their home terrain (a point that keeps getting overlooked here) they can spy out the modern soldiers directly as well.
And between Message, Sending, Animal Messenger, Whispering Wind, etc., I think the FR defenders won’t be substantially behind in communications either.
—And it's worth emphasizing that these modern soldiers won't have access to GPS, which will severely curtail their ability to orient themselves in a completely different world.
Originally Posted by Forum Explorer
Considering how wizards dress and where they live, they are not hard to figure out as a VIP.
Short version being, wizards are quite skilled at not looking like wizards.
Originally Posted by Mark Hall
It becomes substantially more effective if your enemies brought gunpowder to a fireball fight. A single fireball, even if it didn't kill anyone itself, could cook off most of their ammo, and that's going to smash magazines and the like, if it doesn't cook off grenades or other explosive weaponry (at which point, the magazine doesn't matter).
-
2020-09-18, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Dragons can be hurt and killed by many anti-tank weapons (See the now dead Fire Dragon). And the Apsotles are NOT impervious to human firearms weapons. Rory took a little time to heal from the damage she took from the spec ops groups. And those where just assault rifles. Ma Duse would tear her apart and if it didn't kill her, it would certainly slow her down enough so that something that would kill her could be used.
Member of the Giants in the Playground Forum Chapter for the Movement to Reunite Gondwana!
-
2020-09-18, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
Originally Posted by Forum Explorer
As others have pointed out, this is a modern army. While for the sake of argument, I'd say they don't know of Faerun or D&D specifically, they should know about fantasy worlds in general. Otherwise they aren't actually a modern army.
We all seem to be assuming this is an American army, perhaps British—and as I mentioned, gaming is widespread enough in the US military that it does make sense that some of the soldiers will have heard of this. And plenty of them will have seen Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, Onward, etc.
But what about modern soldiers from China, or Sri Lanka, or Pakistan, or Botswana? All using roughly the same equipment, but these are all very different cultures, and I don’t know that TTRPGs are well-known in their respective services.
Originally Posted by Palanan
Druids can do this directly, by observing in animal form….
1. Scout. Druids can scope out the battalion’s camp from a thousand feet up as peregrines, merlins and other mid-sized raptors. The modern soldiers will have no reason to suspect that ordinary-looking birds are any threat.
2. Customize Weapons. Using Stone Shape, druids can use natural obsidian to create flechettes, essentially sharp arrows with small stabilizing fins.
3. Bombard. Again flying at altitude, the druids can rain down hundreds of obsidian knives, maiming and/or liquidating many of the soldiers.
4. Undermine. Druids in burrowing forms can dig trenches around the APCs and other mechanized units. They won’t be submerging the full vehicles underground, only dragging their wheels and treads down below the surface, where they again use Stone Shape to immure the wheels and treads in solid stone. The mechanized advantage is lost before the battalion ever motors into view of the target city.
.Last edited by Palanan; 2020-09-18 at 01:20 PM.
-
2020-09-18, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Derby, UK
- Gender
Re: Modern soldiers vs. Faerun. What do you think happens?
So you, if confronted with a real zombie, would immediately panic and curl up into a foetal position? You, if in the possession of a firearm to hand, not go "oh, [snap], a REAL zombie" and nevertheless not make a spirited attempt to shoot it in the head?
I don't believe that.
That's the point everyone ALWAYS misses in these crossovers and often in fiction generally when confronted with the unknown. The simply fact that a modern human has a basic mental kit - provided by media and especially fictional itself - that allows comprehension of something you have not seen before. Gives you suggestions. The head-space that, say, something might be immune to fire. That magic could do things. Modern human culture has provided humans with the ability (and the LUXARY) of being able to experience, however vicariously, beyond your daily-life; be that as simple as seeing an elephant watching Sir David Attenborough, or going to see [insert fantasy movie here]. We are all, as Elan would observe, genre-savvy. It is inescapable, as it is, to borrow from the Science of discworld (I think) a part of the "make-a-human (or Lich) kit."
(Even in places like China have movies and stuff, even if they don't have TTRPGs.)
You might be initially terrified of a dragon that is REAL, but you won't (unlike a Faerunian peasant exposed to an artillery strike) be facing something which you life and culture have no in way provided a base reference for. You've seen movies with aliens and zombies and magic - you have at least a set of understandings of what such things MIGHT or COULD be, even if you don't understand the specifics of how this thing right here now WORKS. But you have a mental kit supplied to you that will allow you, after the initial shock has worn off, to think of things to TRY next time. (It is immune to bullets? How big bullets (because there's a difference between a bullet from a Walther PPK and a GAU-8/A Avenger rotary cannon)? Is is immune to LADs? ATGMs? Can you snatch that staff what was clearly some sort of magic-user was wielding and make it shoot a wave of frost like she did on the dragon?)
Now, if you are talking about someone from a third-world country... They, being sufficently impoverised, might not have had the same exposure as the rest of us, granted; but by then, we're stretching the definition of "modern army" a bit, since they, perforce, won't be using modern technology anyway.
Now, by the same token, outside the peasants, most of your wizards and adventurers are going to have at least a level of that, because magic exists, so they are not likely to curl up into a ball crying either - but they most likely won't have had the same sort of exposure to different concepts (not until they've had a good few levels under their belts) and it won't be to quite the same degree, because as more technologically advanced society, moderns humans have opened up more head-space to concievably possibilities.Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2020-09-18 at 01:31 PM.