Help refurbish my house rule for Rests?

[Mjolnirbear]

So my current house rule is this:

You may only Long Rest in a safe area. (No long rests in dungeons or long explorations)
In a safe area, you may only short rest twice a day.
Short rests take 10 minutes instead of one hour.

So this has had the admirable effect of reflecting gritty realism, without making players long rest for a whole week. And it works wonderfully during the Exploration pillar.

However, my players are in their first real dungeon (Sunless Citadel, modified and slightly levelled). Between random encounters on the way there, slaughtering goblins (the non-combatants evacuated since the party was not sufficiently stealthy), and dealing with a decidedly grumpy dragon, they have exhausted all their spell slots and hit dice.

In short, they deserve a long rest, but it's not a safe area.

For now, I've handwaved the safe area rule, because they absolutely played the resource game as long as they could, and it's hardly their fault I failed to foresee that dungeons would pose problems (partly because I rarely use dungeons). They also, conveniently, just levelled to 5th, and the bard picked up Tiny Hut, which is a great excuse for a 'safe area'. But I don't want it to be the default. I want the distinction between safe area and not-safe to still matter. Specifically, I don't want Tiny Hut to permit a long rest where otherwise it would not be possible (along with other easily useable hacks, like finding a safe room that's locked and trapped)

I'm not so great at being original, just decent at adapting others' ideas. Does anyone have any bright ideas? Honestly, it's not like hand-waving is hard, it's the logical inconsistency that hurts my brain, and "can't long rest in unsafe areas, except when the DM decides it's okay" takes a lot of the agency right out of my players' hands in addition to making my brain twitch.

And yes, the obvious answer is just to use Gritty Realism. But I dislike it a great deal. A week's rest is more like a vacation, not a recuperation.

[BoutsofInsanity]

They need to establish a safe area.

That's all you need.

It will begin to reflect in their strategies as they approach dungeons. So in order for them to Long Rest in a hostile area, they need to take specific steps to create a "Safe" zone for them to rest in.

Ill describe what I mean below.

Having cleared several rooms of the abandoned Castle and traveled most of the day, the party is tired, out of spells, and needs to rest. But if they can't secure a spot, they might have their rest interrupted. Travelling out of the dungeon isn't viable. And the goblins from the lower levels might come back. So the Party goes to work.

First they find a viable room they can stay in. The druid grows some vines out of the window down to the first floor below. Providing an easy escape should things go south. While the rogue travels down the hall towards the stairs at the lower levels. Setting up tripwire, bells, and a few spike traps takes most of his time. DC = 8 + Rogues Prof + Dexterity so 15.

Meanwhile, the barbarian and paladin begin grabbing some furniture to make makeshift barricades in the room they are staying in. Lastly, the cleric returns to the previous rooms explored and spikes them shut. Break DC is in the DMG and PHB. This will prevent any enemies from approaching from unseen passage from behind, or at least without creating lots of noise. There is only one way in and out now. The entrance to the castle, and down into the castle grounds below.

Having made preparations, the party settles into an uneasy sleep while the Elf takes first watch.

Now the important part. They need 8 hours of rest. If they get interrupted by a fight, it doesn't mean they lose all 8 hours of resting. Instead, it just sets them back an hour or so. The trick is they need to refresh, not have consecutive non-combat. The danger is they are low on resources if they get ambushed. Not that they can't rest.

[Amnestic]

The Slow Healing variant (DMG 267) may be something to consider? It means you don't get HP back on a long rest, but do still get half your hit dice back, which they can then spend. Only let them full heal on a long rest when 'in town' or 'back at base' or however you want to phrase it. Somewhere with comfy beds, a warm hearth and ample booze. This lets tiny hut still be used as a safe area, but it's still a resource game and not a total reset.

You could have it affect spell slots/other long rest resources too (perhaps they only regain half their slots, instead of all of them) but that's probably best talked over with the party before implementing out of nowhere. It basically creates a three tier rest system - short, danger-long and safe-long, with danger-long giving you less back than a safe-long.

[blackjack50]

Setting up a defensive position is viable option in a dangerous area. As pointed out already...their strategy will begin to have them setting up defensive positions to retreat to. For your consideration as a DM:

Do you remember the scene in Fellowship of the Rings where they got cornered in the mines of Moria? If someone sets up a defensive position in a locked room with no escape? It may end up looking like that. Actions have consequences. And any enemy with a modicum of planning/intelligence would know to lay siege to them or just wait them out. Just depends on the type of enemy. The risk/reward system needs to exist for setting up a position to long rest in a hostile area. So I’d say maybe play it realistic on how enemies would react to a known enemy setting up camp in their area.

[Chugger]

I would just play the 5e rules as they are and not houserule - don't mess with them.

This is a game, not a reality emulator. I've been in games where the DM had houserules to make things more "realistic", and every time it's ended up a disaster. The rules were tedious and slowed play too much and didn't offer anything cool - "realism" is usually tedious and not sexy and boring, to be brutally honest. And stopping to refresh how the houserule works - the added dice rolling - it's not worth it to me.

If it's really worth it to you and your players, fine - you're free to do it, and I hope your games go well. Just remember you have to stop - you can't keep piling on new houserules as your realize more and more things are not "realistic" and you're tempted to "fix" them - your "fixes" end up stagnating the game and killing it.

[Vogie]

If the party needs more longevity (non-combat, unreliable healing), providing them with an noncombative NPC priest they must protect that can cast Prayer of Healing 3/day will also work. If you already have a Bard, Cleric or Druid in the party, just throw a Staff of Healing into their next loot pile and be done with it.

Right now, you have two extremes - a coffee break or a vacation in the Hamptons - and shockingly, that isn't working. You need something in between. Things like dungeons aren't set designed for such a punishing rest system - unless you are turning the SC into a western marches style megadungeon where the PCs occasionally wander back to town and/or set up town-style outposts within it, then wander back into the dungeon on a different day.

There need to be long rests - classes like artificers, barbarians and clerics don't have a way to regenerate ANY of their resources without one. Sure, if your party is built around maximizing short rests (moon druid tank, battlemaster, monk, warlock healer, et cetera) then you'd be okay, but that's more the exception than the rule.

Start with the "Slow Natural healing" rule if you're focused on a more realistic gritty feel - have them use the hit dice as the HP regen mechanic, even during long rests (the 8 hour kind). You can have the players refresh additional hit dice by finding new sources of water or food.

When it comes to spellcasters, you could:

• have half their maximum spell slots (rounded down) at the end of a non-vacation long rest, and to limit spell slots restored to 5th level or lower. Only a full vacation-style long rest allows a spellcaster to restore all spell slots... and to regain spell slots of 6th level or higher.
• have the hit dice perform double-duty during a non-vacation long rest, restoring a number of spell points equal to the number of hit points restored, too. You'd then use the Spell points table from DMG 288 to restore the appropriate number of spell slots.

And if you want to institute the Safe part of it, you have to decide what hill you are going to die on as "safe". Tiny Hut isn't even a way to get around it in your system. The Bard ritual casts Tiny Hut and... it's been 11 minutes, short rest is done, everyone pack up! You have to decide exactly what safe is defined as. Since "finding a safe room that's locked and trapped" is considered an "easily useable hack", give the players an expectation on what they have to do to be safe.

• Are they going to have to scavenge supplies to build tiny forts along the way? Do they have the tools and know-how for such a task? Do both you and the players have the patience for "Alright, we've got to go through the process of building a fort now" every session or two?
• Should they be on the lookout for some sort of mobile home that they'll be hauling around with them?
• Is there going to be any availability for on-demand rest ability? If not Tiny hut, then perhaps Programmed Image? Hallucinatory Terrain? Passwall? Wall of Stone? Do they have to wait for a Magnificent Mansion?

[Pex]

What you need to focus on is not how long a rest is in gameworld time. You can have it take as long as you want in gameworld time for whatever verisimilitude you need to make sense. What's important is how many long rests the players get per game session. Players want to use their stuff. They're supposed to use their stuff and get it back. That's how the game works. If rests are too frequent you as DM get flustered because the PCs always have everything and nova all the time. If rests are too infrequent players get bored because conservation of resources while important doesn't help. They'll use up their stuff too soon so can only do simple attacks and Cantrips forever until the next rest comes, or worrying about needing their big guns for later they don't use their stuff so are playing the game doing simple attacks and Cantrips thus boredom remains.

I find the longest real world time between long rests that keep the game fun and playable is one long rest per two game sessions, and it's ok for it to happen at the end of the second session to start fresh the next game. One long rest per game session happening at the end of the session to start fresh next week is ideal, in my opinion, but once every two game sessions is fine. This is presuming a lot of the game session was about exploration and roleplaying. Not having all their stuff for the second session is fine because they used up some in this session and still have a good amount for the next one.

By the third session if players haven't long rested they get angsty. They want to rest already, but the DM won't let them. It's no longer about the game. The DM spends real world time and energy creating and running the adventure, but the players spend real world time and energy playing the game. Their time to travel to the game and being available to schedule with real life getting in the way is just as valuable. Using their stuff and getting it back is the fun. Denying that fun because you won't let them rest is what causes friction.

There are exceptions. For example, it's possible for a game session to be all roleplay. Not a d20 was rolled, maybe for a skill check. Those can be fun. Players haven't used their stuff because they didn't need to. If they did it was one thing, one spell slot, one class resource, and they did it because it was fun/cool to do at the time it was done. Those sessions don't have to count towards the one long rest every two game sessions. It's the sessions where the players have to use their stuff that matter.

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Since you mostly like your house rule, maybe just keep it as it is, and add another: Gaining a level provides all the benefits of a long rest.

Anyway,

Ken

[Avonar]

I think the main thing here would be to clarify the definitiong of "safe area". Instead of saying that a safe area is a place without any enemies around, say that a safe area is one that you cannot be feasibly ambushed.

As an example, the group holes up in a room with only one entrance. They shut the door, lock it and put a cupboard against it. There is no real way that the enemies can get to them without creating enough of a ruckus to wake the party up. This would be a good excuse to allow them to rest as long as they have done everything they can to protect themselves.

So yeah, if you define a safe resting area instead as a place where the group cannot be ambushed while they rest, it opens up more options.

[Mercureality]

I would just play the 5e rules as they are and not houserule - don't mess with them.

This is a game, not a reality emulator. I've been in games where the DM had houserules to make things more "realistic", and every time it's ended up a disaster. The rules were tedious and slowed play too much and didn't offer anything cool - "realism" is usually tedious and not sexy and boring, to be brutally honest. And stopping to refresh how the houserule works - the added dice rolling - it's not worth it to me.

If it's really worth it to you and your players, fine - you're free to do it, and I hope your games go well. Just remember you have to stop - you can't keep piling on new houserules as your realize more and more things are not "realistic" and you're tempted to "fix" them - your "fixes" end up stagnating the game and killing it.

I heartily agree! 5e is explicitly a game-ist, not simulationist, system, and it's better for it. If you developed these rules so players don't long rest after every encounter, just give them consequences for resting too often -- their enemies have time to prepare traps and ambushes, move valuable treasures away, etc. Edit: Just find a way to let them know in-world that they're suffering the consequences of over-cautiousness. "It's apparent that the shrike elves were warned of your approach. A bristling barricade of hastily grown thorn brambles surrounds the temple, and you can see additional archers patrolling the battlements above" or "The dwarven warlord lies dead before you. You're victorious, and you find x, y, z upon his person. After catching your breath and searching the room, you notice that patches of the stonework are free of dust, and there are scuffs on the floor. It seems that there were heavy chests in this room that have been hastily moved elsewhere. Perhaps they'd still be here if you'd arrived sooner." Even if the encounters and rewards are exactly the same as you'd planned, this might give them a greater sense of urgency in the future.

Moreover, Leomund's best (only?) use is explicitly what you want to curtail with your house rule. You might as well take rope trick and Leomund's off of their spell lists. I like the "fortify and keep watch" rules others have suggested. That's the kind of thing players should be doing anyway in hostile locations, regardless of house rules.