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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    So at this point I'm getting more and more sure that a Wind Walk escape is about to happen.

    Since they started actively running, it looks like at least 3 rounds - Oona throwing the bag, Xykon appearing and then casting Energy Drain, Xykon casting Maximized Fireball).

    If I recall correctly there was a lot of discussion about how to Wind Walk out required 5 rounds, and they're almost there.
    Wait, so the 5 rounds for that is like a cooldown? I thought people meant that the total, uninterrupted casting time needed to be 5 rounds.
    It doesn't matter what you CAN do--it matters what you WILL do.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    See also: the LotR movies. In FotR, Gandalf cinemacktionally* loses his sword Glamdring early on in his fight with the Balrog, on the bridge over the chasm. In the follow-up scene in TTT, both still falling, he has caught up with it.
    Perhaps Maia possess a very particular set of aerodynamic skills.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Can we agree that the title of this comic is a vicious burn against Redcloak? That guy cannot get any respect!

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lheticus View Post
    Wait, so the 5 rounds for that is like a cooldown? I thought people meant that the total, uninterrupted casting time needed to be 5 rounds.
    "Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds, which counts toward the duration of the spell (as does any time spent in physical form)."

    It doesn't specify what happens during this time; the assumed interpretation is "Five full-round actions, with no other actions between", I believe. That said I could just as easily see "a five-round delay in which you can take other actions".

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Perhaps Maia possess a very particular set of aerodynamic skills.
    Those skills probably help Gandalf to arrive precisely when he means to.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    I really, really love the art in the 10th panel. What a neat effect. I'm also glad to see Xykon here because I love the attitude he brings to these sorts of scenes. Always makes me laugh. I am glad to see that our dwarves are well-warded; I sure hope they also packed some fast movement to get away.


    Peelee’s Lotsey

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Even if they do manage to get back into cloud form, they're still not safe, correct? They'd still be vulnerable to wind spells (at least to the extent of not getting away), dispells, etc? What else could harm them?
    Last edited by bunsen_h; 2020-09-21 at 06:27 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by locksmith of lo View Post
    would this imply that D's hammer did some other type of damage?
    (i forgot what the name given for the hammer is... HoLS?)
    You know what, let's make a table
    Code:
    Bludgeoning		Full damage			Includes hammers
    Piercing		Damage -15	racial
    Slashing		Damage -15	racial		Includes most swords
    Fire			Immune		magic item	details uncertain
    Cold			Immune		racial
    Electricity		Immune		racial
    Acid			Full damage
    Sonic			Full damage			Nobody ever wards against sonic! (except Darleks and Robotnick)
    Negative energy		Heals		racial
    Positive energy		Immune		magic item	details uncertain
    Irregular magic		Full damage			includes sunburst
    Redcloak could (theoretically, not going to happen) cast protection from acid and sonic on Xykon.

    There may be some protections against light or force, or whatever else there is, but those aren't officially "energy types", so there're less options. Also, there are limits on how many magic items you can wear at once, so Xykon probably isn't adding any more.
    Last edited by Quizatzhaderac; 2020-09-21 at 08:27 PM. Reason: grammar

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    How I imagine it going:

    Let's go finish them off.
    No, let's not.
    I'm sorry?
    First, you tell me what they were doing here. And why there's a broken table over there that wasn't there before. And why you didn't call for me.
    The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bunsen_h View Post
    Even if they do manage to get back into cloud form, they're still not safe, correct? They'd still be vulnerable to wind spells (at least to the extent of not getting away), dispells, etc? What else could harm them?
    They're basically safe at that point, they move much faster than non-Wind Walkers so they'd be out of range in at most 1-2 rounds, they're already warded against Xykon's go-to Energy Drain and Meteor Swarm, Implosion won't work on a gaseous form, and I'm not sure Disintegrate would actually work against gaseous form either, basically taking Redcloak out of the picture. They might not be warded against Lightning, but they have time to cast Heals before they smoke out, so a direct damage spell is probably not good enough to take them down (DEFINITELY not both of them at least).

    It's not a guarantee that's what's going to happen, but if Rich wants them to escape, its easily believable, and that's the most likely course of survival that doesn't involve Xykon just letting them go (unlikely), MiTD intervening (also unlikely he doesn't care about the clerics), or some other shenanigans like the invisible kidnappers.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2020-09-21 at 06:42 PM.

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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    They're basically safe at that point, they move much faster than non-Wind Walkers so they'd be out of range in at most 1-2 rounds, they're already warded against Xykon's go-to Energy Drain and Meteor Swarm, Implosion won't work on a gaseous form, and I'm not sure Disintegrate would actually work against gaseous form either, basically taking Redcloak out of the picture. They might not be warded against Lightning, but they have time to cast Heals before they smoke out, so a direct damage spell is probably not good enough to take them down (DEFINITELY not both of them at least).

    It's not a guarantee that's what's going to happen, but if Rich wants them to escape, its easily believable, and that's the most likely course of survival that doesn't involve Xykon just letting them go (unlikely), MiTD intervening (also unlikely he doesn't care about the clerics), or some other shenanigans like the invisible kidnappers.
    Implosion and Disintegrate are probably both being cast out of Domain slots. I think Redcloak has the Destruction Domain... which means he can't cast them again.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    They're already warded against Xykon's go-to Energy Drain and Meteor Swarm...
    Not quite. Meteor Swarm deals bludgeoning damage as well as fire, and it's harder to protect against bludgeoning (although I'm not sure if DR would stop Meteors bludgeoning damage?).

    I'm wondering which Team we'll be following in the next comic. I can imagine
    A) Xykon going 'eh, they've bolted into one of the doors. Guess we'll see them again at some point',
    B) Durkon and Minrah running into a door and finding O-Chul and Lien,
    C) it cutting to the Order watching from a distance, with O-Chul and Lien having joined them off-panel.
    The oddest part is I can imagine all three happening simultaneously.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Sometimes Xykon is a total bro, no questions asked about why they're there, just what damage types haven't been tried yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gildedragon View Post
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ErebusVonMori View Post
    Sometimes Xykon is a total bro, no questions asked about why they're there, just what damage types haven't been tried yet.
    Bet $20 that Xykon already knows why they're there.

    Xykon's smarter than he likes to let on, that's one of the things that can make him so dangerous... and that +8 racial bonus to listen checks can have all sorts of uses...

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Skull the Troll View Post
    Fall damage is notoriously non-lethal in 3.5. They have made a few jokes about it in the comic. The real issue here is how did they fall so much faster than her hammer??? Galleo is rolling in his grave right now.
    I figured they jumped off and were carried by their momentum, or the momentum of the Hammer of Thunderbolts already falling (because magic and stuff).

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Alternatively, they could duck inside one of the dungeons since they're down in the canyon. Not ideal, but better than being picked off in the open.
    I don't know how the Wind Walk works, but I figure they might just duck into a cave or a nook to cast it and/or until it takes effect.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    Liches are a favorite of mine. 3.5 varents are magic and blunt.

    Star metal is homebrew for this comic. It merely does more damage as far as we know...
    Actually no. Starmetal is from Complete Arcane and the effect is essentially “adamant that also deals 2d6 points of extra damage to extraplanar beings”.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by elros View Post
    Can we agree that the title of this comic is a vicious burn against Redcloak? That guy cannot get any respect!
    And deserves none, given
    Spoiler: sod
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    what he did to his brother


    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    First, you tell me what they were doing here. And why there's a broken table over there that wasn't there before. And why you didn't call for me.
    yep, not a bad call.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Actually no. Starmetal is from Complete Arcane and the effect is essentially “adamant that also deals 2d6 points of extra damage to extraplanar beings”.
    As one of the few 3.5 books still in my possession, yep.
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    They're basically safe at that point, they move much faster than non-Wind Walkers so they'd be out of range in at most 1-2 rounds, they're already warded against Xykon's go-to Energy Drain and Meteor Swarm, Implosion won't work on a gaseous form, and I'm not sure Disintegrate would actually work against gaseous form either, basically taking Redcloak out of the picture. They might not be warded against Lightning, but they have time to cast Heals before they smoke out, so a direct damage spell is probably not good enough to take them down (DEFINITELY not both of them at least).
    Protection from Fire absorbs a maximum of 120 damage. The maximize fireball has already taken out half the protection, leaving 60hp of protection. A completely valid approach for high level casters with spells to burn is to simply blast through the protection buffer - it is an inefficient trade of spell levels, but it works. Xykon could keep bombarding them with fireballs, quickened, maximized, or otherwise, if he was willing to burn spell slots, and in at most two round he'd be dealing real damage. Likewise hitting them with Meteor Swarm would both deal bludgeoning damage and get rid of the remaining fire protection quickly.

    There's of course the possibility that Durkon has more Protection from Energy spells in reserve, if he memorized more and only protected them against fire and not other elements.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Yeah, the “undead harming energies” were probably just the starmetal reacting weirdly to the proto-Weapon of Legacy magic.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.


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  20. - Top - End - #140
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    If they do make it back into cloud form it's possible the fireball has created steam clouds nearby that they can use to cover their escape.
    "That's not right, that's not even wrong."

    "This is not an idea to be tossed aside lightly, it should be thrown with great force."

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    What issue is that?
    #1214 when Minrah gets hit with the bugs Durkon says they need to get out of LoS

    With regards to Xykon being a bro etc
    No he isn’t
    He is cruel and vicious and likes to pretend he doesn’t notice stuff when he actually does. All in order to lull his allies into security and then casually show he knew their secret plans all along and smash them apart. Breaking their spirits is an added bonus.
    Last edited by mjasghar; 2020-09-21 at 10:31 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Gotta agree with Xykon for once. Clerics are, indeed, just the worst.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Minrah made it clear that they have some sort of plan, which implies a plan for escape as well. If they jumped down the ravine, the theory that they're planning on escaping through there somehow has a bit more merit.

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ... so it's probably not worth quibbling about the specifics too much.
    Welcome, new poster. Undoubtedly, this forum will -- if it hasn't already -- spend a minimum of dozens of pages haggling over the pedantic minutiae of said specifics.

    Quote Originally Posted by elros View Post
    Can we agree that the title of this comic is a vicious burn against Redcloak? That guy cannot get any respect!
    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    And deserves none, given
    Spoiler: sod
    Show
    what he did to his brother
    Yeah, this. Not to mention masterminding the mass-murder and decimation of an entire city-state on an old grudge, while throwing away the lives of thousands of his fellow goblinoids in the supposed name of their "advancement" (read: continued revenge-genocide of non-goblinoids).
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So again, I gotta ask. What difference does it make? Why not call a cat a cat?
    The people on this forum are the most pedantic group of people I have ever seen, that's why.
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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    (read: continued revenge-genocide of non-goblinoids).
    Revengocide?
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    I really would rather Tarquin finally just went all George R. R. Martin on Nale.
    That's right - George R. R. Martin; a writer so ruthless, his name is a verb akin to Samuel L. Jackson. Valar morghulis.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The only thing worse than the usual irrelevant rules pedantry is incorrect irrelevant rules pedantry.

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gullintanni View Post
    Implosion and Disintegrate are probably both being cast out of Domain slots. I think Redcloak has the Destruction Domain... which means he can't cast them again
    Implosion is also a normal level 9 cleric spell, so it's possible Redcloak could have prepared it in an ordinary spell slot as well.

    In Disintegrate's case - it's true that clerics can only ever get it as a domain spell, but it is possible to prepare a lower-level spell in a higher-level slot; there's a small possibility that Redcloak wanted more direct-damage spells and prepared a second Disintegrate in his eighth-level domain slot (though I wouldn't consider it likely).

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    I wonder if this scenario exists, in part, to make it clear how the Order has gotten stronger over time. The last time they fought Team Evil, a few rounds of combat and a long fall like that would have even been enough to kill Roy-- and now, 800ish strips later, Durkon (freshly deprived of two levels) and his not-as-strong-as-the-main-six-but-still-enough-to-contribute cohort can just tank it and keep going.

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ErebusVonMori View Post
    Sometimes Xykon is a total bro, no questions asked about why they're there, just what damage types haven't been tried yet.
    Eh, he's used to this sort of thing.
    No weirded than a dozen druids popping out of a potted plant.

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraithfighter View Post
    Bet $20 that Xykon already knows why they're there.

    Xykon's smarter than he likes to let on, that's one of the things that can make him so dangerous... and that +8 racial bonus to listen checks can have all sorts of uses...
    I'll take that bet.
    Because yeah, Xykon's smarter than he likes to let on.
    But if he knew what the Plan really was he would absolutely not be helping. If he already knew what the ritual did he wouldn't have asked Tsukiko to figure it out - that only tells us that he's suspicious. We know he doesn't trust Redcloak, but if he knew that this ritual he's been trying to perform for ~30 years, the ritual he
    Spoiler: SOD
    Show
    died for
    , has absolutely nothing to do with his goals, Redcloak would be either dead or wishing he was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
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  30. - Top - End - #150
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
    Eh, he's used to this sort of thing.
    No weirded than a dozen druids popping out of a potted plant.
    I guess it depends on if he was listening in on the conversation or not.

    If Xykon was at the bottom of the ravine, would he have been able to hear most of it?
    Last edited by Baine; 2020-09-22 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Left a URL tag in

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