OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

[Psyren]

You know, if this was a game I was in and not a comic, I think I'd have ditched this table way before Durkon even blew the element of surprise, because the scales are so utterly imbalanced in favor to Team Evil I'm not sure if I'd have been arsed enough to even try. Xykon is resistant or immune to almost everything that isn't Durkon's hammer or Roy's sword and he has multiple competent allies that are also likely stronger than any given member of the Order. At this point I think the only valid method of taking him out would be shoving him through a Gate again.

The fact that the deck is so horribly stacked against our heroes just means it will be all the more satisfying when Elan gets his happy ending.

This is the most I've laughed at a last panel since, I think, Loki's dialogue at the Council of Clans.

Glad to see they've gained a little bit of distance: hopefully this means they have some lead time to heal/think of something. My money's still on our mysterious Orange & Green capturing Team Cleric.

A+ page!

Alternatively, they could duck inside one of the dungeons since they're down in the canyon. Not ideal, but better than being picked off in the open.

[danielxcutter]

The fact that the deck is so horribly stacked against our heroes just means it will be all the more satisfying when Elan gets his happy ending.

Which is why I haven't gone "screw this" and left yet. And as I said, this isn't an actual game. You want at least some chance for the PCs to win for those.

[WhyAreCows]

Yaaaaay I missed Xykon

[Worldsong]

Excuse me, but that's "Epic Soresirer Litch."

Ah yes, of course, how rude of me.

[Ionathus]

I've encountered a small technical issue:

I'm not an admin, but this just sounds like you maybe needed to clear your cache/cookies. I've had similar problems with other comics, but they usually resolve pretty quickly.

[Reboot]

The real issue here is how did they fall so much faster than her hammer??? Galleo is rolling in his grave right now.

Actually, that's okay - it's all about the starting velocities:

• Minrah has clearly dropped her hammer before Durkon catches his, which has (magically-accelerated) momentum. So it's falling purely under gravity - a starting v of 0 before g kicks in.
• Minrah accelerated a bit faster than g for a moment before letting go of Durkon and returning to accelerating solely with g - a starting velocity of n, effectively
• Durkon himself got all the kinetic energy of the hammer and thus accelerated faster than gravity until he was at full hammerspeed and accelerating only with g again - an effective starting velocity of (n+y).

[Conradine]

It's official: Durkon is a badass.

[danielxcutter]

It's official: Durkon is a badass.

What do you mean official now?

[drazen]

I bet Roy would never have caught the weapon like that when falling.

Well, he does have that instant recall Weapon of Legacy power, so he'd probably just have used that.

Also, Xykon is being hypocritical as he has immunity/ damage reduction against six damage types.

- Area effect (fight with Darth V)
- Positive energy (print books)
- Lich racial immunities x 4: Electric, Cold, Polymorph, Mind-Affecting (d20srd.org)

- Regular lich damage reduction "up the wazoo" as Xykon said once
- Boots of Free Movement (cannot be grappled or entangled)
- Turn resistance +4 (d20srd.org)

... I was going to ask which six, but I just came up with nine, and am left wondering if I missed any.

[King of Nowhere]

yes, when fighting a prepared spellcaster, it is generally wise to open with some dispelling. it's more reliable than guessing. especially since xykon has superb dispelling which should work wonders

also, i believe this fight is, among other things, meant to show that the oots are no longer badly outmatched by xykon as they used to be.

[danielxcutter]

Immunity to precision damage, mind-affecting abilities, and any Fort-targeting ability that doesn't also work on objects, and that's off the top of my head.

[Dion]

On the plus side, the bugs are gone. At least both of them can run.

Auntie Oona has the not liking on the shiny hat man give the zap to the bugs.

Also, Cleric’s Feather Fall for the win!

[Worldsong]

I think we can safely say that Xykon just has too many immunities and resistances.

[danielxcutter]

I think we can safely say that Xykon just has too many immunities and resistances.

And too many spells. And probably high AC as well. I'm surprised that Durkon actually hit him without a metric crapload of buffs.

[gatemansgc]

I really like the fiery lighting in panel #10. And that was hilarious.

i definitely enjoy the rare time things get shadowed in the comic!

[Darth Paul]

How long has it been since we've seen Xykon with damage effects from anything? I like this hammer!

[Riftwolf]

At least Durkon didn't stay and fight, and knew a cheat code to the universe; Gravity casts Expeditious Retreat as an immediate action (with 1d6/10ft backlash).
I'm guessing they'll now duck into a door and rely on Team Evil not seeing exactly where.

[gatemansgc]

And too many spells. And probably high AC as well. I'm surprised that Durkon actually hit him without a metric crapload of buffs.

i don't think xykon expected to get hit in the face with a hammer after his energy drain failed.

[Alcore]

I love how nonchalant he is...


Mirah is picking herself up off the floor and Durkon's like "another day, another dungeon"

[danielxcutter]

How long has it been since we've seen Xykon with damage effects from anything? I like this hammer!

Since the last page of the last book, I believe.

[Alcore]

Well, he does have that instant recall Weapon of Legacy power, so he'd probably just have used that.



- Area effect (fight with Darth V)
- Positive energy (print books)
- Lich racial immunities x 4: Electric, Cold, Polymorph, Mind-Affecting (d20srd.org)

- Regular lich damage reduction "up the wazoo" as Xykon said once
- Boots of Free Movement (cannot be grappled or entangled)
- Turn resistance +4 (d20srd.org)

... I was going to ask which six, but I just came up with nine, and am left wondering if I missed any.

for the record...


that damage reduction is 10+ (I think 15+) and can only be bypassed by a magical blunt object. Roy's sword must overcome said DR, Durkon's hammer simply bypasses as if it was not there at all.

[dancrilis]

How long has it been since we've seen Xykon with damage effects from anything? I like this hammer!

Nearly anytime we see him recently.

Girard's gate - damage.
First trip we saw to the Tomb - damage.
Last trip we saw to the Tomb - damage.
Now - damage.

I think those are the last four times we have seen him.

[danielxcutter]

for the record...


that damage reduction is 10+ (I think 15+) and can only be bypassed by a magical blunt object. Roy's sword must overcome said DR, Durkon's hammer simply bypasses as if it was not there at all.

And pretty much everyone else does piss against him. Honestly, if I'm correct that the Spellsplinter Maneuver functions similarly to Mage Slayer, which it probably does, I'm not even sure if it'd work on Xykon at all. Undead use their Charisma for Concentration checks and even Durkon* was capable of making it.

[Darth Paul]

Nearly anytime we see him recently.

Girard's gate - damage.
First trip we saw to the Tomb - damage.
Last trip we saw to the Tomb - damage.
Now - damage.

I think those are the last four times we have seen him.

Okay, but we haven't seen him for a long time. And in all of those cases, it wasn't a hero's weapon that caused the damage; I guess that's what I was getting at.

[Lexible]

Geez, Minrah is a lot tougher than I thought she'd be. That's a lot of damage she's tanked to apparently still be standing.

Minrah was a fighter for a time before becoming a cleric, and can put up her dukes fo' realsies.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Bunny Commando

[t209]

Well, they dead now.

[bunsen_h]

Fall damage is notoriously non-lethal in 3.5. They have made a few jokes about it in the comic. The real issue here is how did they fall so much faster than her hammer??? Galleo is rolling in his grave right now.

It would have to involve the added momentum from the hammer. Somehow. Durkon, Minrah, and her hammer are initially all in free fall, with Durkon holding Minrah's elbow. Then Durkon's hammer catches up and Durkon grabs it, which increases their speed downwards slightly. Then Durkon lets go of Minrah's arm, which doesn't affect their relative motion.

Where things get problematic is in panel 5, which seems to show that Durkon has moved farther downwards than Minrah. Then in panel 6, they appear to hit the ground simultaneously. Left-to-right reading even suggests that Minrah lands first. Perhaps he shoved her backwards, but she is more aerodynamic.

[wingnutx]

I hope that fireball killed off the bugs.

[Aidan]

I was expecting a heavy, "Xykon is about to kill us strip," but I appreciate the retention of comedic value in a scene that could have gone dark fast.

[Ionathus]

And pretty much everyone else does piss against him. Honestly, if I'm correct that the Spellsplinter Maneuver functions similarly to Mage Slayer, which it probably does, I'm not even sure if it'd work on Xykon at all. Undead use their Charisma for Concentration checks and even Durkon* was capable of making it.

My gut tells me that the Spellsplinter Maneuver will work on Xykon, at least once.

Narratively, it feels right that Roy will get a chance to use it against Xykon after almost 800 pages since their last rematch. Given all the focus we've had on Roy, the Greenhilt Sword, the Weapon of Legacy, and learning the Spellsplinter from Horace to fulfill the Blood Oath, it would feel pretty weird for Xykon to fully No-Sell it.

Of course, I don't expect Xykon to be immediately thrashed by it, and I'm sure he'll have some tricks up his sleeve to keep the fight going. But it'll almost certainly work against him at least once, at a key moment.