OOTS #1215 - The Discussion Thread

[KorvinStarmast]

The Unseen Duo told Lien that the poison would kill O-Chul. They may not have been lying.
Then, both of them (with poison coursing through their veins) were tossed off a impressively tall cliff. So, 20d6 = 70 points of falling damage, which for O-Chul is a scratch, but that's on top of whatever the poison did to them.

Nope, not tossed, but picked up and carried away. They are higher than the ledge that they started on, and their cloaks streaming below them indicates upwards movement.
Anyway, that's how it looks to me.
If you note panel 10 and panel 27, they start on the lower of the two ledges depicted, and are moving up ....
Note that their weapons are being carried with them also ... are above the ledge that they started on, and are neatly accompanying them upwards ....

And the Unseen Duo were concerned about being spotted by hobgoblins

Bugbears.

...Who is that ******* and please tell me what he wrote so I never read it.

The first three books in A Song of Fire and Ice (starting with Game of Thrones) are pretty good. He wrote that but he never finished the series. What was supposed to be 5 books became 7 and he has only finished 5 ... arrgghh ...

[Doug Lampert]

...Who is that ******* and please tell me what he wrote so I never read it.

Eh, some of his SF from before he started writing fantasy door-stops is very good. Sometimes bloody, but very good.

[Riftwolf]

Eh, some of his SF from before he started writing fantasy door-stops is very good. Sometimes bloody, but very good.

I preferred the Outer Limits adaptation of 'Sandkings' to the original story.

[bunsen_h]

Looking at the strip again , is it possible that Lien and O-chul are being carried away as prisoners by the invisible people, rather than outright murdered by them? That was how I read this strip when I first saw it. I can't believe that two characters like O-chul and Lien would simply be shot dead in one panel and then thrown off a cliff, never to be seen again. GRR Martin is not the author here

...Who is that ******* and please tell me what he wrote so I never read it.

George R.R. Martin's best-known work is the series of books that were adapted to make the Game of Thrones TV series.

[tawnyterror]

If none of the other commotion got the others attention, this fireball is absolutely going to do the trick- so I'm expecting to see the others within the next two pages (either a flash to them or them storming in, I don't know exactly how close the dwarves are to them)

[KorvinStarmast]

If none of the other commotion got the others attention, this fireball is absolutely going to do the trick- so I'm expecting to see the others within the next two pages (either a flash to them or them storming in, I don't know exactly how close the dwarves are to them)

I will assume by "the others" you mean Haley, Vaarsuvius, Roy, Belkar, and Elan.
As I think through your post, it makes sense that a maximized fireball would attract their attention.
While I am not sure what line of sight they have from that lede, since the ravine/rift is curved, the likelihood of an echo amplifying the sound effect shown in panel 10 - Boom! - such that rest of The Order hears it seems sound.

I'll back up your bet/estimate on arrival time.

Two quataloos tossed into the pot

[pendell]

...Who is that ******* and please tell me what he wrote so I never read it.

George RR Martin wrote the "Song of Ice and Fire" series on which the HBO tv phenomenon "Game of Thrones" was based. That is, he's still writing the books though the TV series concluded, making an ending based on his outline. There's speculation he's changing the books based on the widespread dislike for the last season of the TV show.

I should also note that the TV show was sexually explicit to the point of being softcore porn.

The key point about the series is that GRR Martin is a grimmer, darker take on an LOTR low-magic world. Kings and pretty much everyone else are just awful people. You've got one contender to the throne who's a butcher, another who sacrifices children in a fire, another who is raising dragons in order to "save" the kingdom by setting everyone in it on fire, and north Beyond the Wall are the grim, icy Others who are marching south as winter comes , to end the world in ice.

I suspect the original title is based on the Robert Frost poem as the humans -- scheming, betraying, often-evil humans -- confront the End of Days from both the fire of the dragons and the ice of the walkers.

It's not a terrible show or book set but it isn't a cheerful one. GRR Martin has no qualms about killing a beloved character in a brutal and short way, since that's the way real war is.

Here's a jokey rap battle between Martin and Tolkien which really does describe the difference between the authors pretty well

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[danielxcutter]

George RR Martin wrote the "Song of Ice and Fire" series on which the HBO tv phenomenon "Game of Thrones" was based. That is, he's still writing the books though the TV series concluded, making an ending based on his outline. There's speculation he's changing the books based on the widespread dislike for the last season of the TV show.

I should also note that the TV show was sexually explicit to the point of being softcore porn.

The key point about the series is that GRR Martin is a grimmer, darker take on an LOTR low-magic world. Kings and pretty much everyone else are just awful people. You've got one contender to the throne who's a butcher, another who sacrifices children in a fire, another who is raising dragons in order to "save" the kingdom by setting everyone in it on fire, and north Beyond the Wall are the grim, icy Others who are marching south as winter comes , to end the world in ice.

I suspect the original title is based on the Robert Frost poem as the humans -- scheming, betraying, often-evil humans -- confront the End of Days from both the fire of the dragons and the ice of the walkers.

It's not a terrible show or book set but it isn't a cheerful one. GRR Martin has no qualms about killing a beloved character in a brutal and short way, since that's the way real war is.

Here's a jokey rap battle between Martin and Tolkien which really does describe the difference between the authors pretty well

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Epic Rap Battles of History. Why am I not surprised.

Also that's hilarious and so are the comments.

[bunsen_h]

George R.R. Martin's best-known work is the series of books that were adapted to make the Game of Thrones TV series.

Forgot to say: You can tell he's important in the field of fantasy writing because he's got the "R.R." middle initials.

I got a few chapters into the first book before I decided that it wasn't for me. It was all about people stabbing each other in the back, more or less literally, while external catastrophe loomed. The TV series had way too much explicit violence and sex for my tastes.

I will assume by "the others" you mean Haley, Vaarsuvius, Roy, Belkar, and Elan.
As I think through your post, it makes sense that a maximized fireball would attract their attention.
While I am not sure what line of sight they have from that lede, since the ravine/rift is curved, the likelihood of an echo amplifying the sound effect shown in panel 10 - Boom! - such that rest of The Order hears it seems sound.

I'll back up your bet/estimate on arrival time.

Two quataloos tossed into the pot

I'm not convinced of this. Partly it would depend on the party's observations which we're not aware of: are Team Evil coming off of a dungeon crawl and mostly tapped out, or all "full up" on spells? If Team Evil are fully loaded, Roy and the rest are going to be more reluctant to engage, and inclined to see if Durkon and Minrah can escape on their own. That would be a "cut our losses" scenario. But I don't have strong feelings about this, one way or the other, yet -- not enough info.

[understatement]

...Who is that ******* and please tell me what he wrote so I never read it.

The key point about the series is that GRR Martin is a grimmer, darker take on an LOTR low-magic world. Kings and pretty much everyone else are just awful people. You've got one contender to the throne who's a butcher, another who sacrifices children in a fire, another who is raising dragons in order to "save" the kingdom by setting everyone in it on fire, and north Beyond the Wall are the grim, icy Others who are marching south as winter comes , to end the world in ice.

I dunno, I'd say it's a fairly solid series, and heroic characters do pull a good win every now and then. I can't really recall any major character getting killed for the sake of getting killed.

Regardless, the mysterious voices did pick up the paladins' weapons (instead of destroying them or dropping them somewhere else) so they probably want them alive and cooperating.

[Quizatzhaderac]

The Unseen Duo told Lien that the poison would kill O-Chul. They may not have been lying.
Then, both of them (with poison coursing through their veins) were tossed off a impressively tall cliff. So, 20d6 = 70 points of falling damage, which for O-Chul is a scratch, but that's on top of whatever the poison did to them.
And the Unseen Duo were concerned about being spotted by hobgoblins - which suggests they were not concerned about the Paladins moving around after being tossed off the cliff, because they weren't going to be moving.

They weren't tossed off the cliff, they were carried upwards from where they started.

If you look at the second to last panel you'll notice that 1) the ledge is below them now. 2) They are not in freefall, O-Chull is being carried by his legs (otherwise his legs are rigid).

[pendell]

They weren't tossed off the cliff, they were carried upwards from where they started.

If you look at the second to last panel you'll notice that 1) the ledge is below them now. 2) They are not in freefall, O-Chull is being carried by his legs (otherwise his legs are rigid).

Thought so. Promising to spare a character's life, then killing them and throwing them off a cliff sounds like something Littlefinger would do.

Spoilery link

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Doug Lampert]

Forgot to say: You can tell he's important in the field of fantasy writing because he's got the "R.R." middle initials.

I got a few chapters into the first book before I decided that it wasn't for me. It was all about people stabbing each other in the back, more or less literally, while external catastrophe loomed. The TV series had way too much explicit violence and sex for my tastes.

There are honorable characters in the first book. The thing that got me saying "I don't care what happens to these people" was something most people won't care at all about.

GRRM was writing a "history" of a fantasy version of something like The War of the Roses, but he got the military totally wrong.

Reputedly, when he saw the TV series, he said "that wall is way too big" and the producers of the series said something like "it's 1/8th scale to what you give in the books".

Then there are the military operations in the end of the first book. The strategy used by Stark makes sense if you've got powerful ranged weapons, radios, and fast moving scouts such as aircraft. Actual near medieval conditions, the only possible conclusion is that Stark was totally and completely insane.

I never bothered with the second book, despite being very favorably impressed with the rest of his work.

I preferred the Outer Limits adaptation of 'Sandkings' to the original story.

I prefer Tuf Voyaging to Sandkings, I never saw the Outer Limits Sandkings, but given how visual the story is, I'm willing to believe it's better as a TV episode.

[bunsen_h]

Reputedly, when he saw the TV series, he said "that wall is way too big" and the producers of the series said something like "it's 1/8th scale to what you give in the books".

Do you mean "it's an accurate representation, reduced overall by a factor of 8"? Or "you think that's bad? In the books, it's 8 times worse"?

[Anitar]

"I SAID 'PASS THE MARMALADE'!"
"YOU WANT THE BRASS YOUR FATHER MADE? TO ARSE THE PARLOUR MAID?"
"THE MARMALADE!"
"YOU WANT ME TO SMILE AT ROY HATTERSLEY?"
"That doesn't sound anything like 'pass the marmalade'..."

Why would a lich want marmalade? They can't taste anything (in this setting, at least).

[Riftwolf]

Why would a lich want marmalade? They can't taste anything (in this setting, at least).

Long, long ago, before Stephen Fry was the voice of truth and Hugh Laurie shilled skin cream, they were known for very, very long sketch comedies (I can't link as I'm on my phone).

[Jaziggy]

Looking at the strip again , is it possible that Lien and O-chul are being carried away as prisoners by the invisible people, rather than outright murdered by them? That was how I read this strip when I first saw it. I can't believe that two characters like O-chul and Lien would simply be shot dead in one panel and then thrown off a cliff, never to be seen again. GRR Martin is not the author here

Respectfully,

Brian P.

This has always been my impression. Lien and O'Chul have a... pendant quality to them that suggests they are being carried; O'Chul by both legs and Lien by one. Compare them, e.g., to the tumbling and flailing of Minrah and Durkon in this comic. Concededly M&D are conscious where OC&L were not, but their bodies still seem to not be falling so much as being carried by their ankles. Just IMO.

ETA: reading through these other comments I think the main cue is the cloaks hanging downwards- if they were falling, the cloaks would be pressed against their bodies towards their feet by the wind. I think it's an open question whether the weapons are falling or being carried.

[Lethologica]

Do you mean "it's an accurate representation, reduced overall by a factor of 8"? Or "you think that's bad? In the books, it's 8 times worse"?

The latter. GRRM is not great with scale.

[gerryq]

Looking at the strip again , is it possible that Lien and O-chul are being carried away as prisoners by the invisible people, rather than outright murdered by them? That was how I read this strip when I first saw it. I can't believe that two characters like O-chul and Lien would simply be shot dead in one panel and then thrown off a cliff, never to be seen again. GRR Martin is not the author here

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I'm 100% certain of it.

The invisible entities could have easily killed them without a pointless conversation, had they wanted to. And they *look* to me like they're being carried away.

[Dion]

The latter. GRRM is not great with scale.

The first book reads like it was a bunch of loosely related short stories that (mostly) followed the standard tropes of pulp fantasy short stories — 30,000 year old dragon skulls, 10,000 year old continent spanning magic walls, unstoppable ice zombies, lost ancient religions, etc.

Somewhere around the second book he seems to have decided to weave a coherent narrative out of all of these ridiculous yarns, and he falters in my estimation.

[Ron Miel]

Looking at the strip again , is it possible that Lien and O-chul are being carried away as prisoners by the invisible people, rather than outright murdered by them? .

I think it's fairly obvious they were captured, not killed.

- The voice promises to give O-Chul an antidote.
- The deal didn't involve "staying awake" rather than "staying alive"
- The voice says "grab them" not "throw them off the ledge"
- They are shown lifted above their ledge, not falling from it.

They are certainly still alive, in-comic.

[mjasghar]

The first book reads like it was a bunch of loosely related short stories that (mostly) followed the standard tropes of pulp fantasy short stories — 30,000 year old dragon skulls, 10,000 year old continent spanning magic walls, unstoppable ice zombies, lost ancient religions, etc.

Somewhere around the second book he seems to have decided to weave a coherent narrative out of all of these ridiculous yarns, and he falters in my estimation.

He pretty much copy pasted the basic plot from a Spanish pseudo historical novel series
That’s why Essos is such a big part

[Yirggzmb]

...Who is that ******* and please tell me what he wrote so I never read it.

George RR Martin, the Game of Thrones guy. Well, the book series that Game of Thrones is based on anyway.

Also, I second the interpretation that the paladins were carried away by something invisible rather than thrown off the cliff. I think the scouting crew would have been more likely to find them if they were just dead in a heap.

ETA: Aaand everyone is a faster typist. Cool cool :P

[Jacky720]

I'm not convinced of this. Partly it would depend on the party's observations which we're not aware of: are Team Evil coming off of a dungeon crawl and mostly tapped out, or all "full up" on spells? If Team Evil are fully loaded, Roy and the rest are going to be more reluctant to engage, and inclined to see if Durkon and Minrah can escape on their own. That would be a "cut our losses" scenario. But I don't have strong feelings about this, one way or the other, yet -- not enough info.

Read again:

If none of the other commotion got the others attention, this fireball is absolutely going to do the trick- so I'm expecting to see the others within the next two pages (either a flash to them or them storming in, I don't know exactly how close the dwarves are to them)

Emphasis mine.

[unbjorn]

If none of the other commotion got the others attention, this fireball is absolutely going to do the trick- so I'm expecting to see the others within the next two pages (either a flash to them or them storming in, I don't know exactly how close the dwarves are to them)

[snip]

I'll back up your bet/estimate on arrival time.

Two quataloos tossed into the pot

I'll put two quataloos on "the rest of the OOTS has been captured by the unseen duo", which explains why they haven't stormed in already.

[Dilvish]

Love the nonchalance of throwing a maximized fireball into a gorge to test the capabilities of two dwarves. Nice looking effect too!
Also it's take cheap shots at Redcloak day, poor dude can't catch a break!

I loved that whole fireballing scene as well. And the image of Durken's hammer smashing into X's face. :)

[bunsen_h]

Read again:

If none of the other commotion got the others attention, this fireball is absolutely going to do the trick- so I'm expecting to see the others within the next two pages (either a flash to them or them storming in, I don't know exactly how close the dwarves are to them)

Emphasis mine.

If the rest of the OOTS are holding off on engaging, and hoping that Durkon and Minrah will be able to escape, there isn't a good story reason to flash to them at this point. Sure, it's possible to take us to watch them watching the situation and fretting, and if we need to see how they cope with stress, I suppose that could be a thing. But it would be more interesting to show D&M handling the situation.

[F.Harr]

Durkon and Minrah prepared! Wow! How far they've come.

[BriarHobbit]

That was a great escape. I noticed that Red Cloak's eye brow shifted in that very last panel. It's like he read the title for #1215. This is very exciting. Run. Durkon and Minrah. Run.

[rbetieh]

Did anyone else have a flashback to a line by Korg in Thor Ragnarok while reading this panel?

The Hammer pulled him off the ledge...