Am I wrong to worry about real life interfering with OotS? Is it "entitlement?"

[caltino]

Reading OotS is different than anything I have done before (reading wise): I have been following the comic for more than 11 years now. There's a sense of investment that I don't feel with reading any trade comics, books, tv shows, etc.

When real life things happen, like Erfworld shutting down and Rich had his accident with his hand, I worry about the comic. (The reason could be anything and not necessarily somber. Maybe Rich wins the lottery or becomes lead developer of next DnD edition.)

I wonder if it could just suddenly stop one day and we would never know anything else about these characters and to what ends their adventure was taking them. I hope to myself that maybe some other people know the outlines of the story, kind of like what happened with half life 3, albeit years later.

Of course, real life being what it is, nothing is absolutely safe. Any show or periodical you have been following for years can stop suddenly for whatever reason, but in most cases there is an enterprise around them that may be able to provide some continuation or at least closure, in a sense.

My question here is, is it wrong for me to be wondering if there are some contingency plans in place to take care of the long time readers of the comic? Is that some entitlement that readers are not deserving, or could one call us a partner/stakeholder in this journey, even though our contribution is purely consumption. Maybe we help make the comic exist by providing an audience, but I am not even sure of that since OotS maybe would have been written anyway, even without a following.

I know that in many instances things have happened such that the consumers/followers/fans/etc have been completely ignored. And if your answer is "in real life it happens all the time, don't expect anything else" then OK, I get it. But I am looking more for a discussion on thoughts for our case here and what is reasonable.

[Fyraltari]

Given that you have no way to influence this one way or the other, I would say that you are wrong to worry about this. Whatever will happen, will happen.

[TheStranger]

I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable or selfish to worry about losing something that you enjoy. It would be strange not to, really.

Now, if you maintain that Rich has some moral obligation to continue providing you with this free webcomic, or that your desire to read OotS is more important that whatever is going on in Rich’s life, then you’re being unreasonable.

[Peelee]

Given that you have no way to influence this one way or the other, I would say that you are wrong to worry about this. Whatever will happen, will happen.

I have no way to influence whether a tornado rips down my home, yet I still worry come springtime.

TheStranger sums up my thoughts on this pretty perfectly, really.

[Fyraltari]

I have no way to influence whether a tornado rips down my home, yet I still worry come springtime.

Well then, either move or try to stop worrying. Worrying about stuff you can’t do a thing about is useless and unpleasant.

[Peelee]

Well then, either move or try to stop worrying.

I'll get right on that, Rich Uncle Pennybags.

[Fyraltari]

I'll get right on that, Rich Uncle Pennybags.

I don’t remember worrying being a mean to earn money?

[Gift Jeraff]

I have long accepted the possibility of Rob not finishing OOTS.

[Mr. Demiurge]

As part of the Song of Ice and Fire fandom, a series written by a 72 year old author who last published a book in the main series in July 2011, a book which itself took six years to write, I've grown pretty accustomed to the distinct possibility I might never see an ending to a story I enjoy. Certainly I think it's much more likely than Rich not finishing OotS.

All I can say is, even if the story is never finished, I don't need an ending to have enjoyed what came before. I'll be angry and frustrated and depressed for a little while if it stops before the end, but a lack of ending doesn't invalidate what I already got from the series, just diminishes what could have been.

[caltino]

Given that you have no way to influence this one way or the other, I would say that you are wrong to worry about this. Whatever will happen, will happen.

I don't think it is true that there's no way to influence this. While no one can prevent things from happening, one can still plan in case things happen. So if this is something that Rich hasn't thought of and it comes to his attention, he may do something about it.

Just to be clear, I am neither saying nor assuming that he hasn't thought about it; I am just trying to explain that we shouldn't assume readers have zero influence on what happens to a comic. I actually do think he may have thought about this, because it's been a part of his life so long. When one is building something for a long time, one tends to think of the end and how he will get there. But of course I have no way of knowing. Rich has long said he knows what will happen in the end and how the story will develop in general. This is not a random, gag a week comic. So he could have shared it with his friends, family, etc. I would also think that he and they would like it that long time readers get some closure if he suddenly becomes the president of DnD and can't draw anymore, but again, I don't know.

In any case, my question was more about what long time (free) subscribers to an ongoing project can reasonably expect. Is it "nothing, be thankful for what you get" or can it be more than that? Can one expect something only if one invests money in an ongoing project, or are other types of investments also meaningful? I'm OK with the "nothing is promised to you" view on this, but there may be other views too.

[Peelee]

I don’t remember worrying being a mean to earn money?

And I don't remember being able to find a new job in a new location with a new house with a full family uprooting their entire lives on a whim to be terribly easy. Your solution is effectively "just be rich", whether you intended it that way or not, and I do not find it terribly convincing or endearing.

[Fyraltari]

I don't remember being able to find a new job in a new location with a new house with a full family on a whim to be terribly easy. Your solution is effectively "just be rich", whether you intended it that way or not.

That’s a pretty impressive level of misreading of « if you can’t do anything about it you shouldn’t worry about it. »
If you can’t do a thing, you can’t do a thing and thus worrying won’t help.

[Peelee]

That’s a pretty impressive level of misreading of « if you can’t do anything about it you shouldn’t worry about it. »
If you can’t do a thing, you can’t do a thing and thus worrying won’t help.

And that advice is, if not on the same level, then at least in the same ballpark as "if you're depressed, just feel better".

[Fyraltari]

And that advice is, if not on the same level, then at least in the same ballpark as "if you're depressed, just feel better".

I never said it was easy. But it is the wrong response and striving not to have that response is a good attitude.

[Peelee]

I never said it was easy. But it is the wrong response and striving not to have that response is a good attitude.

My issue isn't "that is not easy". My issue is "that is terrible advice".

[Fyraltari]

My issue isn't "that is not easy". My issue is "that is terrible advice".

You got a better advice than « do everything you can to solve your problems and then try not to worry about them »?

Because i’m interested.

[Peelee]

You got a better advice than « do everything you can to solve your problems and then try not to worry about them »?

Because i’m interested.

I take it you are grossly unfamiliar with how tornadoes work if "do everything you can to solve the problem" is "eh, just move". Really, that's not terribly surprising, considering how last I heard something around 90% of tornadoes in the world occur in the US. Fun quirk of our geography, as I understand it. Anyway, we have a shelter stocked with radios, flashlights, batteries, blankets, pillows, nonperishable snacks/food, and a few forms of entertainment like books. We go there whenever the sirens go off. I've done a lot to address the tornado problem. Still get worried it'll hit the house.

And, just in case you ever need to deal with one, little tip for you: there's tons of bits of good advice for when there's a tornado warning in your area, but "don't worry about it" is absolutely not one of them.

[Fyraltari]

I've done a lot to address the tornado problem.

Good!

Still get worried it'll hit the house.

Does not help your house at all.

[DataNinja]

I'm fairly certain that it has been stated, that, yes, he has people who know how the story will end.

However, even given that, I do agree with TheStranger in that it is entitlement to feel that it's more important to get the product than for Rich to do... whatever. Whether it was a sudden lack of inspiration, health crisis, or whatever, he has no obligation to finish it. It's okay to be disappointed at a project will never be finished, but you should never feel entitled to it.

(That, incidentally, is why he held off on doing things like a Patreon for so long, until it became necessary to keep up the site. He doesn't want others to feel entitled, or feel like he has to do specific things because people are giving him money. The money comes from the finished products you buy. You get exactly what you pay for, and he's free to do what he needs to.)

[WanderingMist]

Good!

Does not help your house at all.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't help the house. There is no solution for adequately dealing with a tornado, especially if money is a concern. It's not just the house. The tornado might manage to get the designated tornado shelter as well, no matter how well-barricaded it is.

[Peelee]

Does not help your house at all.

Never said it did. I said that not worrying about the tornado horrible advice.

there's tons of bits of good advice for when there's a tornado warning in your area, but "don't worry about it" is absolutely not one of them.

[caltino]

I want to make sure those jumping around in the thread do not misunderstand- the original post doesn't suggest Rich is obligated to finish the story, or anything like that. I tried to be very careful in what I said to not suggest that.

The most it asks is about getting some closure on what the overall, general storyline was, in case it cannot be written.

When one does something for others, it can be because he feels that this is an obligation, or it could simply be because it's a good thing to do, or even the right thing to do, but not something that is owed. And this might be something to be talked about.

But I think my philosophical question is more about what difference there is between reading a one off comic, and following it for a decade with the author. If the author says "none" then, OK. Rich certainly never asked anything of anyone. But can relationships and expectations form without the relationship agreements that Sheldon on BBT seems to use? If no formal give and take exists, can nothing else grow?

I don't know if I am rambling, this is hard to express at just the right level.

I'm fairly certain that it has been stated, that, yes, he has people who know how the story will end.

However, even given that, I do agree with TheStranger in that it is entitlement to feel that it's more important to get the product than for Rich to do... whatever. Whether it was a sudden lack of inspiration, health crisis, or whatever, he has no obligation to finish it. It's okay to be disappointed at a project will never be finished, but you should never feel entitled to it.

(That, incidentally, is why he held off on doing things like a Patreon for so long, until it became necessary to keep up the site. He doesn't want others to feel entitled, or feel like he has to do specific things because people are giving him money. The money comes from the finished products you buy. You get exactly what you pay for, and he's free to do what he needs to.)

[Fyraltari]

It doesn't matter if it doesn't help the house. There is no solution for adequately dealing with a tornado, especially if money is a concern. It's not just the house. The tornado might manage to git the designated tornado shelter as well, no matter how well-barricaded it is.

Right. So do whatever you can to avoid that. And once that is done, worrying is redundant and won’t achieve anything more than deteriorating your health. At some point you have to admit that there’s nothing more you can do and that, yes, horrible things might still happen because life’s not fair.

Never said it did. I said that not worrying about the tornado horrible advice.

Again, do you have any better advice
than « do everything you can and then stop worrying about it »?

[Peelee]

Right. So do whatever you can to avoid that. And once that is done, worrying is redundant and won’t achieve anything more than deteriorating your health. At some point you have to admit that there’s nothing more you can do and that, yes, horrible things might still happen because life’s not fair.

Again, do you have any better advice
than « do everything you can and then stop worrying about it »?

Again, this is in the same ballpark as "just stop being depressed". It's easy to say. It's nearly impossible to do. This is not a question of whether I have better advice. This is a question of how human nature works. Here, let me try a different track. You seen Jaws, right?

Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into her side, Chief. We was comin’ back from the island of Tinian to Leyte. We’d just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes.

Didn’t see the first shark for about a half-hour. Tiger. 13-footer. You know how you know that in the water, Chief? You can tell by lookin’ from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn’t know, was that our bomb mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didn’t even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin’ by, so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin’ and hollerin’ and sometimes that shark he go away… and sometimes he wouldn’t go away.

Sometimes that shark looks right at ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he’s got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll’s eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn’t even seem to be livin’… ’til he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then… ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin’. The ocean turns red, and despite all your poundin’ and your hollerin’ those sharks come in and… they rip you to pieces.

You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don’t know how many sharks there were, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Thursday mornin’, Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boson’s mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the water, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he’d been bitten in half below the waist.

At noon on the fifth day, I told the guy next to me, "eh, stop worrying."

[hroþila]

I love you guys but sometimes you get bizarrely invested in some rather silly debates.

[137beth]

I love you guys but sometimes you get bizarrely invested in some rather silly debates.

That debate is not humorous, and I am choosing to ignore other possible meanings of the word "silly" to say that you are wrong, and nobody is invested in a silly debate!

[Worldsong]

Don't worry, be happy!

[Lord Torath]

I have long accepted the possibility of Rob not finishing OOTS.

I'm glad you've accepted this, because I seriously doubt The Giant (aka Rich Berlew) will allow some random guy named Rob (Rob Redblade, perhaps?) to finish The Order of the Stick.

[WanderingMist]

I'm glad you've accepted this, because I seriously doubt The Giant (aka Rich Berlew) will allow some random guy named Rob (Rob Redblade, perhaps?) to finish The Order of the Stick.

If you're going to correct someone, probably should double-check your own spelling. It's R-I-C-H B-U-R-L-E-W.

[NerdyKris]

My question here is, is it wrong for me to be wondering if there are some contingency plans in place to take care of the long time readers of the comic?

Yes, absolutely. Whether or not the readers get to see the ending should be the last thing on Rich's mind in an emergency.

The idea that authors "owe" their readers a finished work is the kind of toxic fandom that people have been speaking out against for years. You are not entitled to an author's work. You aren't entitled to anything. There is no moral or ethical obligation ever to make sure a work can be finished after you're gone, even if you're George R R Martin. If he's planning for, ugh, the end of his life, it should be the last thing on his mind. The only thing he should be considering is taking care of his family.

Also, this death watch has been going on for like ten years now. One time there was a question if he should rig up a button he can press to get help from the forums if he was incapacitated, completely ignoring the fact that he has a family. It's ghoulish and weird, and has encouraged more than a few boundary crossing individuals to act like their para social relationship with Rich is a lot more important than it is.