Darksalker PC

[alex1g]

When you hide, creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you. You cannot hide in plain sight unless you have that ability as a class feature. In addition, you can fl ank creatures that have the all-around vision special quality.

Here's the scenario. I have a darkslaker pc that was in a cave with 6 Hook Horrors. They have blindsight so can made a Spot or Listen check. PC rolls 34 for hide. I say roll make move silent check to oppose the Hook Horror's listen check. Player rolls an 8 for his move silently check. Player says well you, Mr. DM have to roll against his hide check not his move silently check because his DC roll for hide is higher. I tell the player that I, the monster use MY DC roll, not his to find him. So if I beat his both 34 or 8 check, I would use my 34 to spot him first although both beat his DC. But he's saying that I would only use his Hide DC because its higher. We disagree on who's DC we use for me to spot him. I say its the "creatures" DC roll to find the player. DC for my listen or my spot.. I'm correct on this?

[Silva Stormrage]

The player is correct in this situation. The darkstalker feat states that the creature must make a "Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you". The DC is equal to his move silently/hide check respectively. So in this instance his hide check is higher so that is the DC they have to beat using their spot check.

That is how I interpret the feat, I could be wrong on this and I am not 100% sure I parsed your question correctly.

[alex1g]

That doesn't make sense. Just because he beats my Spot Check he still has to try and not make noise. You're saying because he beats my Spot check, he can make all the noise he wants?? He has to make his Spot and Listen check. The 34 doesn't negate the need to not make noise.

[Rebel7284]

That doesn't make sense. Just because he beats my Hide Check he still has to try and not make noise. You're saying because he beats my hide check, he can make all the noise he wants?? He has to make his Spot and Listen check. The 34 doesn't negate the need to not make noise.

That's how it normally works, but Darkstalker overrides that. It's a REALLY good feat.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Conceptually Darkstalker merges Hide and Move Silently in a Stealth skill instead that you roll twice. So that massive Hide check does indicate he is being quiet, just in a roundabout way.

[Crake]

That doesn't make sense. Just because he beats my Hide Check he still has to try and not make noise. You're saying because he beats my hide check, he can make all the noise he wants?? He has to make his Spot and Listen check. The 34 doesn't negate the need to not make noise.

So you're right, he does need to roll a move silently to avoid actually being heard, but his check prevents him from being pinpointed by their extraordinary senses. If they beat his move silently check, they know he's something is there, even if they don't know exactly what or where, and if they beat his move silently by more than 20, they can pinpoint which square he is in.

However, in the matter of being detected by their special senses, his 34 hide is the DC they must beat.

That's how it normally works, but Darkstalker overrides that. It's a REALLY good feat.

Darkstalker doesn't override the normal hide/move silently rules, it simply uses those skills in a new way to avoid being detected by special sesnes you otherwise would not be able to hide from. You still need to actually hide/move silently to avoid their normal senses.

That being said, he should technically roll separate hide/move silently checks for darkstalker and regular stealthing, so he might roll a worse hide check, and a better move silently check.

[rrwoods]

So you're right, he does need to roll a move silently to avoid actually being heard, but his check prevents him from being pinpointed by their extraordinary senses. If they beat his move silently check, they know he's something is there, even if they don't know exactly what or where, and if they beat his move silently by more than 20, they can pinpoint which square he is in.

However, in the matter of being detected by their special senses, his 34 hide is the DC they must beat.



Darkstalker doesn't override the normal hide/move silently rules, it simply uses those skills in a new way to avoid being detected by special sesnes you otherwise would not be able to hide from. You still need to actually hide/move silently to avoid their normal senses.

That being said, he should technically roll separate hide/move silently checks for darkstalker and regular stealthing, so he might roll a worse hide check, and a better move silently check.

I like this way of running it, but I'm not sure it's actually RAW. The wording of the feat is "must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you". It does not say those DCs apply to pinpointing.

[Crake]

I like this way of running it, but I'm not sure it's actually RAW. The wording of the feat is "must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you". It does not say those DCs apply to pinpointing.

In context, I think it's pretty clear that it means to notice you with it's special senses, which are otherwise normally infallible.

[rrwoods]

In context, I think it's pretty clear that it means to notice you with it's special senses, which are otherwise normally infallible.

Agree; to me, that means that they can't use special senses to gain knowledge of whether you're present at all. But, having rolled their Spot/Listen to figure out where you are, the feat's text is silent on whether they can use their senses to pinpoint your square.

EDIT: I should also be clear on something: What "pinpoint" even means has always eluded me. IME trying to run stealth and perception by the book is somewhat of a nightmare anyway, and I generally (as a player and as a DM) end up in situations where we decide what things mean on a case-by-case basis based on what "makes sense", generally favoring the player to satisfy rule zero.