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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2020

    Default Upcasted Shadow Blade vs Haste (or something else)?

    TLDR: Level 5-6 Bladesinger getting level 3 spells and 2nd attack — should I upcast Shadow Blade or cast Haste? Or do something else?

    .:.

    I’m having a very good time playing a melee frontliner Bladesinger Wizard and already got very good advices to potencialize my defensive capabilities with the right feats + spell selection.

    Now in terms of offense, there are a plethora of good choices. To give some context, my character is at level 4 and my usually go-to setup is Shadow Blade + SCAG cantrips (sidenote: my DM loves swarms of mooks and minions, so I get myself using GFB a lot instead of BB).

    Moving towards to level 5 where I’ll finally get access to the wonderful world of level 3 spells and at level 6 when my 2nd attack comes into play, what would be the ideal choice:

    1. Upcast Shadow Blade?
    2. Cast Haste?
    3. Something else?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Upcasted Shadow Blade vs Haste (or something else)?

    Without doing any math, I'd say the big difference between SB and Haste is SB only boosts offense while Haste also boosts your defense.

    That said, don't underestimate the Wizard staples. If your melee options are already solid, consider picking up Hypnotic Pattern or Fireball so you have a ranged option that's strong against big groups.

    Of course, you're a Wizard, so you can probably keep your options pretty open. Assuming a 16 Int, your preparations could look something like:

    -Shield/Absorb Element/Magic Missile
    -Misty Step/Shadow Blade
    -[Fireball/Hypnotic Pattern]/Haste/Counterspell

    This gives you excellent reactions in AE/Shield/Counterspell, a (near) guaranteed damage dealer in MM, one of the best panic buttons with Misty Step, a choice between blenderizing with Shadow Blade or the more balanced (offense/defense wise) Haste while also having a strong option against hordes.

    Some might balk at preparing 3 3rd level spells at level 5, but they all cover very different scenarios. Counterspell is the least likely to be cast, but is incredibly powerful when it goes off, while Haste and HP/FB are both good in different scenarios.

    If no one else in the party can cast Dispel Magic, I'd try to find room for that as well. Magic Missile, Shadow Blade or Haste being the easiest to drop for it. Much like Counterspell, it's rarely cast, but gamechanging when it comes into play.
    Quote Originally Posted by ff7hero View Post
    Call me Hero,

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2019

    Default Re: Upcasted Shadow Blade vs Haste (or something else)?

    Depends on the situation.

    Shadow blade is easy:
    Cost - BA, concentration and spell slot
    Benefit - 2x (3d8 +4) = 35 dpr per round and ADV if dim or dark (and a really nasty BB Op Att if you get lucky)

    Haste (self) is harder because there is so much to consider:
    Cost - Action to cast, conc, spell slot, 1 round of lethargy
    Benefit - +2 AC, +1 weapon attack or Dash/Hide/Disengage

    Now what do you do w/ Haste?
    First round you cast it and then get to make one weapon attack (1d8+4) or DHD (a weak round usually).
    Following rounds: Cast spell or attack x2, and 1 weapon attack or DHD.

    So do you can cast fire ball, and swing once (or DHD) on following rounds.

    BB/GFB plus extra attack is better than attack x2 (assuming hit and rider triggers), etc. For simple DPR, BB/GFB + extra attack = 30 dpr so less than Shadow Blade, but you also have many other options ...

    So it depends (damage resistance, your AC, their AC, lighting, to hit bonuses, etc)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2020

    Default Re: Upcasted Shadow Blade vs Haste (or something else)?

    If you have dim light, I'd use shadow blade every time for advantage.

    I'm not a fan of the lost round if haste drops. Maybe blink will save you - if you casted it. If you happen to dip/multiclass rogue, the choice is even easier (as you can disengage with cunning action already).

    The ac is nice, but how nice is a third attack? Until level 14, probably not that nice.

    Later on when you feel safer about making most con checks, sure. Of course; once you can get 5d8 out of shadowblade - that's a lot.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Upcasted Shadow Blade vs Haste (or something else)?

    Do keep in mind that Haste is a lot riskier, since if you lose concentration that's basically a turn wasted.
    I would say Haste if you plan on casting on someone else and staying in the background, and Shadow Blade if you want to front-line.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2020

    Default Re: Upcasted Shadow Blade vs Haste (or something else)?

    Thanks very much for all responses.

    To give more context: my High-Elf Bladesinger is a dedicated melee frontliner and usually goes side-by-side in the heat of the battle with our Barbarian and Paladin. Of course I play the mobility game regularly staying behind them.

    Current relevant rolled stats are 18 DEX, 16 CON, 16 INT. I’m at level 4 and got Resilient (CON) to roundup my odd Constitution.

    My spell selection is pretty focused on support and potencialize my melee-driven capabilities. So lots of Shield, Mage Armor, Absorb Elements and Shadow Blade. I have some battlefield control staples just in case, but tend to not use that much (Grease and Blindness/Deafness when the situation is favorable; just dropped Mirror Image recently in favor of Blur and now seeing a good opportunity to get PFE&G).

    I know some classic killer spells like Web, Levitate, Hypnotic Pattern and Fireball can do wonders, but I’m really attached to this play style of an iconic spellsword.

    .:.

    In the end of the day, given easiness and low risk, it seems an upcasted Shadow Blade is the way to go. However, if I have proper preparation time to setup, Haste will not only increase my offense, but also my defense. Well, I’d say it’s good to have both options!
    Last edited by Ir0ns0ul; 2020-09-29 at 09:27 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Jun 2018

    Default Re: Upcasted Shadow Blade vs Haste (or something else)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikimba View Post
    Thanks very much for all responses.

    To give more context: my High-Elf Bladesinger is a dedicated melee frontliner and usually goes side-by-side in the heat of the battle with our Barbarian and Paladin. Of course I play the mobility game regularly staying behind them.

    Current relevant rolled stats are 18 DEX, 16 CON, 16 INT. I’m at level 4 and got Resilient (CON) to roundup my odd Constitution.

    My spell selection is pretty focused on support and potencialize my melee-driven capabilities. So lots of Shield, Mage Armor, Absorb Elements and Shadow Blade. I have some battlefield control staples just in case, but tend to not use that much (Grease and Blindness/Deafness when the situation is favorable; just dropped Mirror Image recently in favor of Blur and now seeing a good opportunity to get PFE&G).

    I know some classic killer spells like Web, Levitate, Hypnotic Pattern and Fireball can do wonders, but I’m really attached to this play style of an iconic spellsword.

    .:.

    In the end of the day, given easiness and low risk, it seems an upcasted Shadow Blade is the way to go. However, if I have proper preparation time to setup, Haste will not only increase my offense, but also my defense. Well, I’d say it’s good to have both options!
    My bladesinger/arcane trickster is my favorite character. (My very first adventurers league character, actually) and I found myself in this exact dilemma.

    What I found is that shadowblade is overall a better use of concentration and scales well. 5th level shadowblade (4D8) can be absolutely vicious. Casting it at 7th level is too much opportunity cost, though. Haste is better to have cast on you by someone else. Preferably, if a sorcerer is in the party they can twin haste on you and another DPS in the party while you use shadowblade. This ups your lethality even more with 3 attacks dealing 4D8 + dex. Potion of speed is another major plus if you're able to get your hand on a few of these babies. Save them for a really nasty boss fight, though. And counter any dispel magic thrown your way to avoid losing a turn.

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