Worse Than the Disease OOC

[u-b]

What skill to fis the scope? Armoury?

If we are paranoid, we could trap the hole in the fence and then make another one when heeded, some distance away.

[Shoot Da Moon]

Alright, so mechanically the motorcycle helmet uses the stats from HT70 and the jacket's the standard leather jacket in B283, right? Is the sniper rifle the generic Basic model or one of the High-Tech guns?

Yes and yes. As for the sniper rifle, it is the Basic Set TL 8 sniper rifle. The men who died on the minefield had Basic Set TL 5 Cartridge Rifles (broken, now).

What kind of land mine did Tariq recover from the mine field? Does it map to one of the kinds in High-Tech?

He is going to want to replenish his supply of grenades, so will try to make some home made grenades. I'd also like to rig up a Claymore mine.

Uh, the land mines are the kind described in AtE 2, the Munitions section. I think the damage given is 8d [2d]?
Not sure if that matches anything from Basic Set or High-Tech.

As for making more grenades, use the Explosives skill and remember to factor in the TL multiplier for value. What parts are you using? Junk?

[Shoot Da Moon]

What skill to fis the scope? Armoury?

Yup. Remember to factor in TL multiplier for value. What are you using for parts?

[u-b]

Yes and yes. As for the sniper rifle, it is the Basic Set TL 8 sniper rifle.

Whoa! Good thing we don't need parts for that one! Also good thing it comes with bullets (it uses a HMG cartridge in AtE). Does it have iron sights?

Yup. Remember to factor in TL multiplier for value. What are you using for parts?

Assuming it has the original scope, that would be a TL8 fixed-power scope, which, according to High-Tech, does not improve much from TL7 when it costs $150, or $1200 in today's AtE prices. Or do we use TL8 multiplier? I think we should use junk, if there's enough of it. Tariq has priority for various parts of grenades, but I think he could use a mine for the explosives themselves. I'd leave fixing the scope to Richard, but if the rifle has iron sights, fixing the scope is a secondary objective.

[GnomesofZurich2]

Uh, the land mines are the kind described in AtE 2, the Munitions section. I think the damage given is 8d [2d]?
Not sure if that matches anything from Basic Set or High-Tech.

As for making more grenades, use the Explosives skill and remember to factor in the TL multiplier for value. What parts are you using? Junk?

Okay, it looks like that mine is equivalent to the M86 PDM from High-Tech p. 189. They have a salvage value of $720 each ($45 * 16 (TL8)), and from ATE I would argue they are Very Closely Related (x2 value) for making other explosives.

A Claymore is going to require $400 ($50 * 8 (TL7), and I would also like to make some TL6 Fragmentation ($40) and Concussion ($60) Grenades, for $300. If you're in agreement on the Very Closely Related, could I then put together 3 Claymores ($1,200), 3 Fragmentation Grenades ($120) and a Concussion Grenade ($60) from one mine?

[Volthawk]

Whoa! Good thing we don't need parts for that one! Also good thing it comes with bullets (it uses a HMG cartridge in AtE). Does it have iron sights?


Assuming it has the original scope, that would be a TL8 fixed-power scope, which, according to High-Tech, does not improve much from TL7 when it costs $150, or $1200 in today's AtE prices. Or do we use TL8 multiplier? I think we should use junk, if there's enough of it. Tariq has priority for various parts of grenades, but I think he could use a mine for the explosives themselves. I'd leave fixing the scope to Richard, but if the rifle has iron sights, fixing the scope is a secondary objective.

I suppose Sean should have the sniper rifle, given he's got the best supplementary skills (stealth, getting around, spotting things, etc) to make best use of it, given that ammo shortage means it's going be something for specific situations rather than replacing one of our rifles.

Repair-wise, it looks the schedule is going to be repairing the minor sniper rifle damage (assuming that means it's at the below 1/3HP margin and thus working less well - if it's damaged but not at the point of lowered effectiveness, we can set it back)->scope if no iron sights, otherwise one of the cartridge rifles (so Tariq can carry a rifle for longer ranged engagements)->the other of the two->finishing up whatever other major repairs we have the time and junk to use. Could perhaps fit the Government in there too somewhere, I suppose, and/or drop the rifle if we're happy with Tariq relying on pistol+explosives and Sean and Richard being the longer-ranged shooters. GM, can the other damaged rifles be used as parts to repair one of them (or the Government, alhough it's a pistol)? That might help if junk supplies are short.

I'll go look at what things cost, run the numbers a bit.

EDIT: Oh yeah, checking AtE 2, the damaged rifles will really make getting one of them functional easy, since as far as I can see one broken rifle is more than enough to make another broken rifle repaired - the former gives 4x for same thing*0.5x for broken=2x base value in parts while the latter requires 1d6*10% base value in parts, so we can either use one to fix several (if we want selling value) or use one to get a skill bonus for extra part use (if we want speed and reliability in the repair job), and probably have parts left over for other gun repairs (the pistol won't get as much value, but will still get full base value on them, since gun->gun parts are worth 2x base value).

[Shoot Da Moon]

Whoa! Good thing we don't need parts for that one! Also good thing it comes with bullets (it uses a HMG cartridge in AtE). Does it have iron sights?

Assuming it has the original scope, that would be a TL8 fixed-power scope, which, according to High-Tech, does not improve much from TL7 when it costs $150, or $1200 in today's AtE prices. Or do we use TL8 multiplier? I think we should use junk, if there's enough of it. Tariq has priority for various parts of grenades, but I think he could use a mine for the explosives themselves. I'd leave fixing the scope to Richard, but if the rifle has iron sights, fixing the scope is a secondary objective.

Yeah, it has sights. Use the TL 7 prices, I think.

Okay, it looks like that mine is equivalent to the M86 PDM from High-Tech p. 189. They have a salvage value of $720 each ($45 * 16 (TL8)), and from ATE I would argue they are Very Closely Related (x2 value) for making other explosives.

A Claymore is going to require $400 ($50 * 8 (TL7), and I would also like to make some TL6 Fragmentation ($40) and Concussion ($60) Grenades, for $300. If you're in agreement on the Very Closely Related, could I then put together 3 Claymores ($1,200), 3 Fragmentation Grenades ($120) and a Concussion Grenade ($60) from one mine?

I am signing off on that. Go ahead. You know the rules in AtE 2?

[Volthawk]

So I misremembered the discussion and read the 'some rifle' in Sean's summary (referring to the gun being unknown) as 'some rifles' (referring to more than one), ignore my talk of multiple rifles just now. Still, that rifle is worth $200 of parts if we want to repair the Government (only pays for under a third, though, since that needs $680 to fix, or I can spend the $20-120 of junk on fixing it so we have a third rifle, or we can just leave it broken for now.

So, presuming the google sheet is up to date (and the various blown up bits and bobs from this battle don't provide junk), we have $700 of junk, and potentially some gun parts (but for now I'm leaving them in their broken gun states):
The sniper rifle is only a minor repair, so parts aren't needed - we can spend some for a bonus to the roll, but we have enough broken stuff it's probably unnecessary. Barring catastrophic bad luck, fixing this is just a matter of time.
The scope has a base cost of $600, translating to a repair cost of $60-360. Easily afforded, even if we get unlucky, shouldn't be a problem to fix (even if it's not strictly needed, having stuff with magnification feels handy once we hit the road again).
The Government, as established, costs $680, 480 if we trade in the cartridge rifle. Potentially possible, on a good scope cost roll, and having a semi-auto gun we can supply with ammo feels very useful, but it is a lot of our repair supply.
The cartridge rifle has a base cost of $200, so it'll cost $20-120 in parts to repair. Very easy to afford, should be an easy job, mainly just a matter of if we'd rather use it for parts or have another rifle (although mind you, repairing it has a good chance of leaving us with more value in gun parts than we started with).

Main question is just the rifle vs Government part - I'm kind of leaning towards the Government, if the scope roll allows it.

[u-b]

The sheet should be current. I estimated the scope to have base cost $1200, now down to $300, see my post above. How do you get $600? By my count, the cartridge rifle has base cost $400 AtE, down to $100 now for being broken.

I am somewhat hesitant to spend junk on the guns because we could machine the parts when we restore the power. Not sure we could machine the parts for the scope (I think it would depend on whether all the lenses are intact, which they probably aren't). Go ahead and use everything to fix the pistol if you feel we'll need it before reinforcements arrive. Otherwise, we could as well fix the sight. I'm leaning to the second option.

[Volthawk]

The sheet should be current. I estimated the scope to have base cost $1200, now down to $300, see my post above. How do you get $600? By my count, the cartridge rifle has base cost $400 AtE, down to $100 now for being broken.

I misread the price you stated as the TL8 price and halved for the TL drop.

The cartridge rifle was just me not adjusting for TL, but note that for both repairs and parts the broken value doesn't matter - repairs work off full TL-adjusted value, and parts give half value adjust by relevance rather than the quarter value used for buying/selling.

2am me is bad at remembering all the modifiers, apparently.

I am somewhat hesitant to spend junk on the guns because we could machine the parts when we restore the power. Not sure we could machine the parts for the scope (I think it would depend on whether all the lenses are intact, which they probably aren't). Go ahead and use everything to fix the pistol if you feel we'll need it before reinforcements arrive. Otherwise, we could as well fix the sight. I'm leaning to the second option.

Fair point on the machining, I wasn't considering the potential for restoring power giving better results. Yeah, with that in mind I'm good to leave the broken guns until later - although given we've seen that the raiders can bring snipers along, I'd definitely want the scope and sniper rifle fixed up as best we can so we can better deal with one if we have to (plus the potential for an earlier warning this time).

That'll just be a minor repair (so free) and the 1d6x$120 on the scope major repair, which...is still a lot. Hm. Maybe that's less of a good idea. I still think it'll be useful, but that is a lot of our junk (and more than we have without turning barely related things to parts on a 6). Let's just go with the rifle for now - it'll mean we're worse off than any enemy snipers, but one isn't guaranteed and that's a lot of junk to help three shots max right now.

I'm assuming the scope is fixable with what we've got since the GM was fine with it when you asked about skills involved and value.

So rambling aside, current plan is to just do the minor sniper rifle repair and then rest to try and get more up back before any potential second wave. Unsure about the scope, given it's a large amount of our junk involved but could be very useful if there's another sniper to be on a level playing field where range is concerned.

[Shoot Da Moon]

So I misremembered the discussion and read the 'some rifle' in Sean's summary (referring to the gun being unknown) as 'some rifles' (referring to more than one), ignore my talk of multiple rifles just now. Still, that rifle is worth $200 of parts if we want to repair the Government (only pays for under a third, though, since that needs $680 to fix, or I can spend the $20-120 of junk on fixing it so we have a third rifle, or we can just leave it broken for now.

So, presuming the google sheet is up to date (and the various blown up bits and bobs from this battle don't provide junk), we have $700 of junk, and potentially some gun parts (but for now I'm leaving them in their broken gun states):
The sniper rifle is only a minor repair, so parts aren't needed - we can spend some for a bonus to the roll, but we have enough broken stuff it's probably unnecessary. Barring catastrophic bad luck, fixing this is just a matter of time.
The scope has a base cost of $600, translating to a repair cost of $60-360. Easily afforded, even if we get unlucky, shouldn't be a problem to fix (even if it's not strictly needed, having stuff with magnification feels handy once we hit the road again).
The Government, as established, costs $680, 480 if we trade in the cartridge rifle. Potentially possible, on a good scope cost roll, and having a semi-auto gun we can supply with ammo feels very useful, but it is a lot of our repair supply.
The cartridge rifle has a base cost of $200, so it'll cost $20-120 in parts to repair. Very easy to afford, should be an easy job, mainly just a matter of if we'd rather use it for parts or have another rifle (although mind you, repairing it has a good chance of leaving us with more value in gun parts than we started with).

Main question is just the rifle vs Government part - I'm kind of leaning towards the Government, if the scope roll allows it.

Did you remember to factor in the value multiplier for TL?

x2 for TL 5, x4 for TL 6, x8 for TL 7, x16 for TL 8.

[Volthawk]

Did you remember to factor in the value multiplier for TL?

x2 for TL 5, x4 for TL 6, x8 for TL 7, x16 for TL 8.

Yeah, like I said to u-b, scope was factoring TL adjustments but working from a faulty starting point, and rifle was forgetting the x2 (particularly daft since I made sure to grab the properly adjusted price for the Government).

So to state accurately:
Scope: 1d6x$120 to repair, no point using for parts since there's nothing similar we have/can make really
Catridge Rifle: 1d6x$40 to repair or $400 in general gun parts
Government: $680 to repair or $3,400 in general gun parts

Until now I hadn't considered junking the Government for parts. Not useful now, but that part value is probably worth keeping in mind for the future (say if another wage comes and leaves more broken guns and we decide some of them are more valuable than a semi-auto pistol).

[u-b]

Unsure about the scope, given it's a large amount of our junk involved but could be very useful if there's another sniper to be on a level playing field where range is concerned.

How about you diagnose the scope and maybe rummage through the junk to see if anything fits? I.e. roll the dice and see how it turns out. I'd definitely proceed at least up to $360.

[Volthawk]

How about you diagnose the scope and maybe rummage through the junk to see if anything fits? I.e. roll the dice and see how it turns out. I'd definitely proceed at least up to $360.

So that's $600 for the scope repairs and $240 for the rifle repairs. Ouch.

[GnomesofZurich2]

I am signing off on that. Go ahead. You know the rules in AtE 2?

Yes, I've just been reviewing them, although I missed the point where Quick Gadgeteers only need 10%(!) of the value in question, but get a bonus for having more than they need.

For the first roll for creating a Claymore mine, I succeeded by 16, it took 20 minutes, and rolled 7 for bugs. Subtracting twice my margin of success gives -25, which means no bugs and is 6 full -4 intervals for a one-shot item, which means I make 7 copies!

Rolling for Fragmentation Grenades, I succeeded by 17, it took another 20 minutes, and I rolled 10 for bugs. Subtracting twice my margin of success gives -24, which means no bugs and is 6 full -4 intervals for a one-shot item, which means 7 Fragmentation Grenades.

Rolling for Concussion Grenades, I succeeded by 20, it took 60 minutes, and I rolled 5 for bugs. Subtracting twice my margin of success gives -35, which means no bugs, and is 8 full -4 intervals for a one-shot item, which gives 9 Concussion Grenades.

Technically, I only used $240 of value to do all that, but that probably should use up the value of the mine just considering it's mass alone (7 Claymores total 24.5 lbs, 16 Grenades another 16 lbs), so using up $5/50 lbs. of junk might also make sense!

It's really impressive how much a Quick Gadgeteer can do with very little! So, for 1 hour 40 minutes of work, Tariq has 7 Claymore mines, 7 Fragmentation Grenades, and 9 Concussion Grenades that are all probably pretty scary looking, but fully functional and with no bugs.

Edit: And I missed that the value of the grenades as compared to the mines means that I would have had an extra +1 on those rolls, and that it would only have taken 2d6 minutes versus 1d6*10 minutes for each, not that it makes a big difference in this situation, and that the TL modifier. I have now adjusted the skill values above to account for that, which also resulted in an extra copy or two for each.

[u-b]

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is how we will be making money for years to come! I mean, when we are out of land mines, we can start taking apart the claymores then...

[Shoot Da Moon]

Yes, I've just been reviewing them, although I missed the point where Quick Gadgeteers only need 10%(!) of the value in question, but get a bonus for having more than they need.

For the first roll for creating a Claymore mine, I succeeded by 16, it took 20 minutes, and rolled 7 for bugs. Subtracting twice my margin of success gives -25, which means no bugs and is 6 full -4 intervals for a one-shot item, which means I make 7 copies!

Rolling for Fragmentation Grenades, I succeeded by 17, it took another 20 minutes, and I rolled 10 for bugs. Subtracting twice my margin of success gives -24, which means no bugs and is 6 full -4 intervals for a one-shot item, which means 7 Fragmentation Grenades.

Rolling for Concussion Grenades, I succeeded by 20, it took 60 minutes, and I rolled 5 for bugs. Subtracting twice my margin of success gives -35, which means no bugs, and is 8 full -4 intervals for a one-shot item, which gives 9 Concussion Grenades.

Technically, I only used $240 of value to do all that, but that probably should use up the value of the mine just considering it's mass alone (7 Claymores total 24.5 lbs, 16 Grenades another 16 lbs), so using up $5/50 lbs. of junk might also make sense!

It's really impressive how much a Quick Gadgeteer can do with very little! So, for 1 hour 40 minutes of work, Tariq has 7 Claymore mines, 7 Fragmentation Grenades, and 9 Concussion Grenades that are all probably pretty scary looking, but fully functional and with no bugs.

Edit: And I missed that the value of the grenades as compared to the mines means that I would have had an extra +1 on those rolls, and that it would only have taken 2d6 minutes versus 1d6*10 minutes for each, not that it makes a big difference in this situation, and that the TL modifier. I have now adjusted the skill values above to account for that, which also resulted in an extra copy or two for each.

If you are committing to all that, post in the IC thread, because it takes in-game time.

[Volthawk]

So how damaged is the sniper rifle, with regards to how much HP it has lost and needs restoring with repairs? Looking at the HP table, it looks like max HP is going to be 10, so my main concern is getting it to 4+, where it's out of the half effectiveness range (shouldn't be hard given unlike the other guns it's not in negatives), but I probably have the time to get it up to max HP again.

I made another error forgetting about TL adjustment, so the sniper rifle being worth 89.6k inflicts a penalty of -1 skill, so Richard restores 3HP in the first two hours and 6HP in the next two, for a total of 9HP, so that should do it (doubt the 3HP alone will be enough for a full repair, but worth noting in case there's an interruption between 3pm and 5pm and that pushes it into full effectiveness).

[u-b]

Can Tariq make equivalent of M217 impact fuzes? I think having both types of fuses (time-based and impact-based with time backup) would extend the range of options, but not sure if M217 or whole M68 are statted anywhere in GURPS and whether we could afford it (whatever the fuse's base price, it would probably be TL7).

[Shoot Da Moon]

Can Tariq make equivalent of M217 impact fuzes? I think having both types of fuses (time-based and impact-based with time backup) would extend the range of options, but not sure if M217 or whole M68 are statted anywhere in GURPS and whether we could afford it (whatever the fuse's base price, it would probably be TL7).

Those fuzes would be TL 7 and have the same base price (before the multiplier) as dynamite fuse cord.

So how damaged is the sniper rifle, with regards to how much HP it has lost and needs restoring with repairs? Looking at the HP table, it looks like max HP is going to be 10, so my main concern is getting it to 4+, where it's out of the half effectiveness range (shouldn't be hard given unlike the other guns it's not in negatives), but I probably have the time to get it up to max HP again.

I made another error forgetting about TL adjustment, so the sniper rifle being worth 89.6k inflicts a penalty of -1 skill, so Richard restores 3HP in the first two hours and 6HP in the next two, for a total of 9HP, so that should do it (doubt the 3HP alone will be enough for a full repair, but worth noting in case there's an interruption between 3pm and 5pm and that pushes it into full effectiveness).

The sniper rifle was missing 8 HP. The sniper's body acted as soft cover against the blast, you see...

[Volthawk]

The sniper rifle was missing 8 HP. The sniper's body acted as soft cover against the blast, you see...

Cool, so it's fixed after four hours.

[GnomesofZurich2]

Can Tariq make equivalent of M217 impact fuzes? I think having both types of fuses (time-based and impact-based with time backup) would extend the range of options, but not sure if M217 or whole M68 are statted anywhere in GURPS and whether we could afford it (whatever the fuse's base price, it would probably be TL7).

Those fuzes would be TL 7 and have the same base price (before the multiplier) as dynamite fuse cord.

That should be doable. Fuse Cord is only $10 base for a 15' length, TL 7 cord would then be $80 base, which for me requires a minimum of $8 per unit. Tariq can try to put that together in-game tomorrow.

[u-b]

OOC: Everyone, eat a ration for dinner.

Four pounds of meat marked off.

[Shoot Da Moon]

Looks like we're ready to move onto the next day...and a new adventure.

What is next for the exiles?

[GnomesofZurich2]

Before the techs arrive, Tariq gets to work producing some fuse cord. Using his last black powder grenade ($10, doubled for being very closely related) and $1 worth of junk for mass, he produces 4 15' lengths of fuse cord in 9 minutes.

Since that isn't going to be enough, he gets back to work, using $8 worth of junk. He gets a critical success producing 7 copies of fuse cord plus another six copies for his success roll. It takes 7 minutes (he must be getting the hang of it).

In total, he produces 17 15' lengths of fuse cord.

[GnomesofZurich2]

Tariq also takes $40 of junk from their store to make some detonating cord (TL6). In 30 minutes, he makes 5 lbs., which is about 275'.

[Shoot Da Moon]

I think Simone the NPC can stay behind at the radar base while the active PCs do their own thing.

[u-b]

I think Simone the NPC can stay behind at the radar base while the active PCs do their own thing.

Yep. That's the plan, though we won't do much now except resting and healing, at least after we finish the talking. I have no idea what Tariq will be doing, but it might well be trade goods of his specialty. Also, I think we should start putting together a wish-list. I'll make changes to the sheet to facilitate this.

Also, what's with the Sean's last search? Or will you post it later when the day will be over?

UPD: Fuse cord and det cord noted on the sheet. The grenades and mines are also in there.

[Shoot Da Moon]

Also, what's with the Sean's last search? Or will you post it later when the day will be over?

Ssorry, didn't see that post until just now. Wait a moment, I'll check it...

[Volthawk]

So how long are we thinking we should stay here before moving on? On that note, are we going to stick with the the original plan and try to get that car going or should we risk the Gutters trip when we get moving? The former needs more work, time and supplies, but is safer, while the latter lets us get going now, let's us avoid another overland trek and there might be useful opportunities down there, but is clearly a risky proposition. Getting the car gives us the options of driving around, which is nice, but exploring the Gutters means we can more effectively move around down there which is also nice.

I'm thinking that we should do what we can with the car - we can still go through the Gutters afterwards, but having the option of driving places feels way too handy to pass up.

Also, since there's apparently more junk to loot here, I'm leaning towards fixing up the scope. Thoughts? Otherwise, Richard will rest up to restore more HP before we get moving.