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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    While we are at it is there enough examples of Japanese yumi longbows to gauge a draw weight for them? Especially 16th century and before, since I am not sure that bows would stay the same during the Edo period.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    While we are at it is there enough examples of Japanese yumi longbows to gauge a draw weight for them? Especially 16th century and before, since I am not sure that bows would stay the same during the Edo period.
    I live in Japan, but archery isn’t my interest. However Japanese people collect an amazing number of things and if they are from an important person they usually get donated to a temple. The number of weapons and suits of armor with full history of the maker and original owner is mind blowing.

    I would be very surprised if there aren’t a large number of extant bows from which you could do the comparison.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    I would be very surprised if there aren’t a large number of extant bows from which you could do the comparison.
    Battlefield yumi have been estimated between 70-200 lb (approx 32-91 kg) draw weight, with the standard being 120 lbs (54 kg). This is based from experimental archaeology, the few yumi bowyers that still make such warbows and contemporary records of draw weight.

    Like many things related to Japanese warfare, they did their own thing when it came to measuring their bows in terms of draw weight; rather than measuring the draw weight directly, they measured them in terms of how many men it took to string the bow, with a 'standard' warbow needing three men (a sannin-bari, 三人張り) to string it. The Kamakura period (~13th Century) 'The Illustrated Tale of Obusama Saburo' (男衾三郎絵詞) shows a 3 man bow being strung.

    Spoiler: Obusumasaburo emaki, panel 11, on the left hand side
    Show




    Records of up to 10 man bows exist, although they're regarded as either impractical (much like the bow weights required for the Qing Military officer examinations) or exaggeration.
    Practical recreations put the 5 man bow (gonin-bari, 五人張り) as the upper limit as any more than 5 people trying to string a bow just get in the way of each other.

    Legendary archer Minamoto no Tametomo (源為朝) was said to use a 5 man bow.

    In this video (link, no English subtitles alas), some kyudo/kyujutsu practitioners test out some yumi on steel targets, including assessing the draw weight of a historical early Edo period 3 man bow at 5:18, getting a draw weight of 89 kg (89キロ in the captioning).

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Battlefield yumi have been estimated between 70-200 lb (approx 32-91 kg) draw weight, with the standard being 120 lbs (54 kg). This is based from experimental archaeology, the few yumi bowyers that still make such warbows and contemporary records of draw weight.
    These numbers are not quite representative. Most modern replicas of war yumi are around the 100-110 lbs mark, which is where I'd expect most of them to sit in their period, and I think this would be the two-man bows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    In this video (link, no English subtitles alas), some kyudo/kyujutsu practitioners test out some yumi on steel targets, including assessing the draw weight of a historical early Edo period 3 man bow at 5:18, getting a draw weight of 89 kg (89キロ in the captioning).
    The thing to remember is that measuring bow power in men is extremely subjective and non-linear. You can have three burly dudes who can span a bow you normally need 5 people for, and the difference between 3 and 5 isn't the same as between 1 and 3. There are legitimately-looking records of some people using 5 man bows, so I'd say those are probably in the 200 lbs area.

    All of that together places Japan circa Sengoku Jidai into the "has to deal with metal armor" 90-120 range, with the occassional stronger bow. After that, Edo hits and by the end of it, bows are firmly made obsolete by things like Martini-Henry. In an alternate history where Japan doesn't go isolationist and mostly peaceful, import of Portugese cuirasses continues (and maybe some domestic production with imported steel) and we would probably see a shift in bow weight up to anti-plate armor levels. Or just more guns, who knows.
    That which does not kill you made a tactical error.

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Was the United States involved in the Rhodesian Bush War?

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    Oh, the answers you’ll hear...that was not a short war, or a well understood one, and it happened on the periphery of the Cold War with influences across a large chunk of Africa.

    To keep it simple, the US never sent troops, it imposed sanctions on the minority government, and in the end was a player in the peace talks that ended Rhodesia - but at the same time it found itself caught on the horns of trying to support a perception of racial justice (or more cynically, win points with the newly empowered black voting block) in a war where the Soviets were backing rebel groups who were also ostensibly fighting for the same thing.

    Add on top that quite a few Americans decided they disagreed with the government and went out as mercenaries to work for the Rhodesian minority government, South Africa has its hands in the pot and we still wanted to support the UK who wanted influence in South Africa....

    Pretty much anyone involved can find SOMETHING to scream about how the US was actually doing them wrong via some item or another, usually before launching into a pro-whatever-their-side-is diatribe.

    But, TLDR, mostly diplomatically and economically in support of majority rule.
    Last edited by KineticDiplomat; 2020-12-23 at 09:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    These numbers are not quite representative. Most modern replicas of war yumi are around the 100-110 lbs mark, which is where I'd expect most of them to sit in their period, and I think this would be the two-man bows.
    I found this picture of what I assume to be a two man bow, but no providence of the image.

    Spoiler: Two man bow stringing
    Show


    Generally though, I can't find any record of anything less than a 3 man bow. Whether this is because of an imposed minimum standard for warfare (like with English archery) or anything less than a 3 man bow wasn't worthy of mention, I don't know.

    I found an unsourced legend/myth/rumour that legendary figure Minamoto no Yoshitsune (no link as the board censors it) was mocked for using a very light draw (by the standards of the time) 24kg draw yumi, which would barely be a 1 man bow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    The thing to remember is that measuring bow power in men is extremely subjective and non-linear. You can have three burly dudes who can span a bow you normally need 5 people for, and the difference between 3 and 5 isn't the same as between 1 and 3. There are legitimately-looking records of some people using 5 man bows, so I'd say those are probably in the 200 lbs area.
    As I said, Japan did its own thing - I deliberately didn't put a poundage correlation to draw weight because of the massive variance; even if all those men were equally strong and could pull 50 kg each (for sake of argument), any bow between 101-150kg draw weight would be counted as a 3-man bow.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    Concerning arrows.

    If you have a tent wall, and the arrow is still in flight, it will probably get through with lethal force. Sandbags as tested by Tod's Stuff have already been mentioned, but keep in mind, those weren't proper, packed sandbags, and were sideways-on to arrow flight, which you shouldn't do when making anything out of sandbags. For what he was testing - a story from a civil war somewhere where arrows did just that - it was enough, since civil wars rarely see properly constructed barricades.
    So Tod did a follow up, comparing various arrows and crossbow bolts vs sandbag to guns vs sandbags. Every caliber from .22 LR up to .308, and the bullets did far worse against the same set up. Simple bag of construction sand set up the same way. The only round that made it through was the 7.62 x 39, and that had very little energy left. It was going sideways, went through a sheet of cardboard and dented the wood behind. Everything else (including 5.56 and .308) never made it through the bag.

    So a single sandbag from Home Depot will stop most bullets, but not an arrow.

    It seems that mass and momentum trumps velocity as far as penetrating sandbags.

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  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Battlefield yumi have been estimated between 70-200 lb (approx 32-91 kg) draw weight, with the standard being 120 lbs (54 kg). This is based from experimental archaeology, the few yumi bowyers that still make such warbows and contemporary records of draw weight.

    Like many things related to Japanese warfare, they did their own thing when it came to measuring their bows in terms of draw weight; rather than measuring the draw weight directly, they measured them in terms of how many men it took to string the bow, with a 'standard' warbow needing three men (a sannin-bari, 三人張り) to string it. The Kamakura period (~13th Century) 'The Illustrated Tale of Obusama Saburo' (男衾三郎絵詞) shows a 3 man bow being strung.

    Spoiler: Obusumasaburo emaki, panel 11, on the left hand side
    Show




    Records of up to 10 man bows exist, although they're regarded as either impractical (much like the bow weights required for the Qing Military officer examinations) or exaggeration.
    Practical recreations put the 5 man bow (gonin-bari, 五人張り) as the upper limit as any more than 5 people trying to string a bow just get in the way of each other.

    Legendary archer Minamoto no Tametomo (源為朝) was said to use a 5 man bow.

    In this video (link, no English subtitles alas), some kyudo/kyujutsu practitioners test out some yumi on steel targets, including assessing the draw weight of a historical early Edo period 3 man bow at 5:18, getting a draw weight of 89 kg (89キロ in the captioning).
    Those are pretty high draw weights for guys who were 155 cm/5 ft tall on average (based on the size of their armour), and were mostly vegetarians (only those who lived close to the sea could get proteins regularly from fish...). The draw weight of the longbows from the Mary Rose was of 100–185 lb (50-83 kg), and those were elites, the tallest, strongest men in England, with a height of around 175 cm (and, as usual among late medieval/renaissance elites, mostly carnivores with high protein, high calcium diets...).
    Last edited by Clistenes; 2020-12-24 at 06:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Those are pretty high draw weights for guys who were 155 cm/5 ft tall on average (based on the size of their armour),
    Shorter build also translates to shorter arms and shorter draw length. We like to talk about draw weight, but a bow doesn't have a draw weight, it has draw weight at a given distance. One major criticism of those draw weight measurements is that they were made with maximum length of arrows in mind, rather than size of archer. I'd be interested to see if that would change things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    and were mostly vegetarians (only those who lived close to the sea could get proteins regularly from fish...).
    This is a complete lie, mostly coming from timespan around WW2 when Imperial Japan had several famines, and several foods were pushed as quintessentially Japanese, among them sushi and several types of sea grass, along with the idea of scarcity of meat being somehow traditional.

    {Scrubbed}

    Take this as a cautionary tale, when articles on the internet tell you something about historical whatever, be very sceptical until you find an academical paper confirming it.

    Even if that were the case, I have no idea where the thought of "away from sea means no fish" comes from. Carp and lobsters are a thing, as is any number of fresh water fish, and fisheries were popular things to have worldwide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    The draw weight of the longbows from the Mary Rose was of 100–185 lb (50-83 kg),
    Not representative. Mary Rose was full of elites, but their bows were in 150-160 range, with a few exceptions either way, which is a cautionary tale on how to handle statistics. A range rarely tells the whole story. Most non-elite bows are estimated to be in 120-140 range in this era.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    and those were elites, the tallest, strongest men in England,
    Not really. Elite soldiers yes, definitely, possibly chosen for ability to draw bows as well, but there was no formal selection pool. There were likely many stronger or better archers in England, perfectly happy to not serve in the navy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    with a height of around 175 cm (and, as usual among late medieval/renaissance elites, mostly carnivores with high protein, high calcium diets...).
    Rice is high in protein. As for carnivore, not really, Japanese diet is not that different from European one when it comes to nobles, a solid amount of meat, lot of protein. I already discussed the myths on Japanese side, on European, far too many people look at what a ducal feast looked like and try to apply that to everyday life of your low-level noble, most of whom were quite cash-strapped.

    The largest point of difference is that, in Europe, paesants had meat much more readily available to them when compared to their Japanese counterparts.
    Last edited by truemane; 2020-12-28 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Scrubbed
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Those are pretty high draw weights for guys who were 155 cm/5 ft tall on average (based on the size of their armour)...
    To reinforce the 'draw weight at a given distance', bows are usually rated as x lbs at y inches. The standard quoted draw length is 28", although longer bows are sometimes measured at 30" or 32".

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    Shorter build also translates to shorter arms and shorter draw length. We like to talk about draw weight, but a bow doesn't have a draw weight, it has draw weight at a given distance. One major criticism of those draw weight measurements is that they were made with maximum length of arrows in mind, rather than size of archer. I'd be interested to see if that would change things.
    I do disagree with measuring the draw weight at the arrow length as being unrepresentative of a Japanese bow's draw weight though. Japanese archery has possibly the longest draw of any historical style, with a thumb draw to somewhere out past the ear. The arrows are similarly sized for that - a recurve arrow or even an English longbow's arrow wouldn't be long enough for a yumi.

    Looking it up, the suggested length of a Japanese arrow (ya, 矢) is the distance between the middle finger of your outstretched left hand to the middle of your throat plus 3 finger widths (~5cm). Anecdotally, for me that's 91cm; meanwhile my recurve arrows are 74cm from the tip of the pile to the nock. For reference, the vast majority of the arrows recovered from the Mary Rose were 76cm (~30").

    Going by this measurement, the early Edo period bow in the video is somewhere in the region of 89kg at 90+cm, or 196lb at 35+inches. Whether the original owner could draw his bow that far back is a different question though (for example, my bow's actually rated for 36lb at 30", but my draw length's 29").
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2020-12-24 at 03:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    *snip*
    Most sources I have consulted mention that while peasants ate whatever they could lay their hands on, from birds to deer {Scrubbed}

    River fish is less abundant that sea fish; it is harder to provide the recomended amount of protein if you rely on river fish...

    A lot of the Japanese used to eat way more millet and barley than rice, but I guess samurai archers were among the social class able to afford rice...
    Last edited by truemane; 2020-12-28 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Scrubbed

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    To reinforce the 'draw weight at a given distance', bows are usually rated as x lbs at y inches. The standard quoted draw length is 28", although longer bows are sometimes measured at 30" or 32".
    Which is fine for European man height, not for Japanese.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    I do disagree with measuring the draw weight at the arrow length as being unrepresentative of a Japanese bow's draw weight though. Japanese archery has possibly the longest draw of any historical style, with a thumb draw to somewhere out past the ear. The arrows are similarly sized for that - a recurve arrow or even an English longbow's arrow wouldn't be long enough for a yumi.
    Not true. Most military archery styles do have draws past the ear, longbow being no exception. The length of draw varied, from what we see in period artwork, from in front of the chest to as far past the ear as your hand will let you, through pretty much entire middle ages.

    Spoiler: 1150 AD past the head draw
    Show


    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Looking it up, the suggested length of a Japanese arrow (ya, 矢) is the distance between the middle finger of your outstretched left hand to the middle of your throat plus 3 finger widths (~5cm). Anecdotally, for me that's 91cm; meanwhile my recurve arrows are 74cm from the tip of the pile to the nock. For reference, the vast majority of the arrows recovered from the Mary Rose were 76cm (~30").
    Length of arrow is... kind of irrelevant. It tells you what the maximum possible draw length is - sometimes, there are ways to shoot shorter arrows - and that's about it. If you look at

    Spoiler: This image
    Show


    ...you can see some of the bows having arrowhead right at the bow staff at full draw, while others poke out quite a lot. Since arrows have to be mass manufactured, I'd think the standard arrow length was long enough that no one in the army would have it too short, plus some safety margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Most sources I have consulted mention that while peasants ate whatever they could lay their hands on, from birds to deer{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

    [...]

    A lot of the Japanese used to eat way more millet and barley than rice, but I guess samurai archers were among the social class able to afford rice...
    I linked an academic study that said otherwise. That's all that I can really do on that front.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    River fish is less abundant that sea fish; it is harder to provide the recomended amount of protein if you rely on river fish...
    And this is just not correct, fisheries exist and catching sea fish is considerably harder than catching river fish, on account of sea being kinda big. Northern Hungary, an entirely land locked area, had a significant portion of its diet being fish in middle ages (sure, some of the fish were expensive, but carp was a dime a dozen), and claiming Japan couldn't do the same is something that requires a lot more proof.
    Last edited by truemane; 2020-12-28 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Scrub the quote
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    Which is fine for European man height, not for Japanese.
    What does that have to do with the standard nomenclature for stating longbow poundage and draw weight? The 28", 30" and 32" example lengths are for recurve/longbow, but that's what they are - examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    Not true. Most military archery styles do have draws past the ear, longbow being no exception. The length of draw varied, from what we see in period artwork, from in front of the chest to as far past the ear as your hand will let you, through pretty much entire middle ages.
    Looking at pictures of the draws from the English Warbow society, they've got a lot of draws to the collar bone or the ear which reflect your example art but on a real person, but it's simple biological fact that you can't pull as far back with a three finger draw as you can with a thumb draw, barring unique hand physiology putting your thumb joint up by your finger joints.*

    Spoiler: Joe Gibbs, 170lb longbow
    Show


    I've skimmed through a book on Arabic archery and the furthest they pull pack is the ear, using various reference points like the corner of the eye, edge of the beard, the tragus, etc for consistency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Greywolf View Post
    Length of arrow is... kind of irrelevant. It tells you what the maximum possible draw length is - sometimes, there are ways to shoot shorter arrows - and that's about it. If you look at

    Spoiler: This image
    Show

    ...you can see some of the bows having arrowhead right at the bow staff at full draw, while others poke out quite a lot. Since arrows have to be mass manufactured, I'd think the standard arrow length was long enough that no one in the army would have it too short, plus some safety margin.
    Practicality would indicate that mass produced arrows would all be about the average length required of an arrow; if they were all too short or too long**, then you'd get issues from either poor accuracy from too long arrows or lots of compensating devices (either arrow tubes on the bow or a device hooked to the drawing hand); short drawing the bow due to having too short arrows isn't a long term solution (less power = less effectiveness = less likely to survive the battle).

    Given that Japanese ya are consistently longer than western arrows, that says to me that the average draw length for a Japanese archer is longer than it is for western archery, thus making average arrow length a reasonable estimate of draw length and hence draw weight when subsequently measured.

    *I vaguely remember this being Eastern European folklore for checking if somebody was a werewolf...
    **To be precise, what I mean by 'too long' is anything over 3-4". Anything more than that and you have to start messing around with the arrow spine to get it to flex correctly around bow - I'm not familiar with how this is done with wooden arrows.
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2020-12-28 at 03:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Most sources I have consulted mention that while peasants ate whatever they could lay their hands on, from birds to deer, the higher classes tended to follow buddhist dietary restrictions (well kinda... eating fish should be as bad as eating meat, but they did so...).

    River fish is less abundant that sea fish; it is harder to provide the recomended amount of protein if you rely on river fish...

    A lot of the Japanese used to eat way more millet and barley than rice, but I guess samurai archers were among the social class able to afford rice...
    {Scrubbed} there are an awful lot of paintings of hunting scenes on the walls of Japanese temples and historic buildings for a culture that supposedly wasn’t into eating meat.
    Last edited by truemane; 2020-12-28 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Scrubbed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    {Scrub the post, scrub the quote} there are an awful lot of paintings of hunting scenes on the walls of Japanese temples and historic buildings for a culture that supposedly wasn’t into eating meat.
    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by truemane; 2020-12-28 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Scrubbed

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    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    Now that's sophistry I can get behind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    {Scrubbed}
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    Now that's sophistry I can get behind.
    Now that's a 5 a day that I can happily keep to.
    While looking up various sources, I found mention of yama kujira (山鯨) or 'mountain whales' as a reference to wild boar (whales were classified as fish so were exempt from a number of prohibitions).


    In any case, adherence to food restrictions by individuals was variable

    {Scrubbed}

    tofu starts appearing in the diets for the elites and upper classes, as the practice of kaiseki, where dishes are served in small individual portions and eaten on a separate plate, rather than massive group servings which are taken then dumped on top of rice as is the Chinese custom. Green tea and hence the tea ceremony also starts appearing around this time.

    The Muromachi period (14th-16th century) was largely influenced by the arrival of the Portuguese in the 16th Century and later, the necessities of war during the Sengoku Jidai. The Portuguese passed on some of their cuisine (notably sweets, tempura* and bread) including the eating of beef, although with some resistance as farm animals were far more useful as work animals rather than for food.

    *That is, the technique of dipping food in batter and deep frying it; it was devised as a way of meeting the fasting and abstinence requirements of not eating red meat for Lent and other Catholic observances, referred to as the times/periods by the Portuguese and Spanish, which is 'Tempora' in Latin.
    Last edited by truemane; 2020-12-28 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Scrubbed

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Regarding diets in Japan - two further anecdotes about the early and late Edo period:

    During the early Tokugawa shoguns at least there was a yearly crane hunt led by the shogun himself around the New Year where supposedly a crane was taken and split into two halves, and one half was sent to the Emperor and the other used for a crane soup served at the shogun's New Year banquet (other retellings mention two birds). One tale has Okubo Tadataka mocking the resulting soup by promising to make another soup like that the next day, and bringing nothing but vegetables. Which at least shows that even Emperor was supposed to partake, and that nobility of that period definitely was quite open about at least occasional enjoyment of meat (the shogun's soup was of course served for symbolical value but it was not normal at all to have a "meat" soup with so little meat).

    in 1864 Dr William Willis receives a letter in Japanese addressed to him in capacity of the British mission's medical officer, inquiring whether Western medicine considers it true that consumption of meat increases height, muscle mass, endurance and other qualities desirable for a warrior. Writes back that it is true (though obviously to get increase in height you need to feed children before they has stopped growing), especially for the red meat, but he is not sure what exactly would be the effect on Japanese, so if his correspondent want to introduce high quantity of meat into the diet a cautions experimentation is recommended to avoid possible side effects. Receives another letter three months later saying that experiments has been successful, the only additional observation is that consuming significant amount of pork in combination with strenuous physical activity causes somewhat heightened aggression "which should not be considered a negative in the current situation". His correspondent was supposedly Hijikata Toshizo, Vice-Commander of the Shinsengumi. I cannot cite a primary source, and there are most fanciful stories invented about Shinsengumi, if not as large in number as ninja stories and "facts", but at least it should be dateable and traceable (to the writings of either Dr Willis, or Ernest Satow who was translating), and seems like Shinsengumi kept and slaughtered pigs of their own, which has caused conflict with Nishi Hongan-ji when they moved there.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    {Scrubbed} there are an awful lot of paintings of hunting scenes on the walls of Japanese temples and historic buildings for a culture that supposedly wasn’t into eating meat.
    Hunting was a form of training for war that was done in full battle gear. Of course somebody was probably going to quietly eat the meat, be servants o samurai themselves, but hunts weren't events everybody took part in often, nor would all daimyos approve of their vassals eating the meat.

    The crane soup was a ritual event, and it shouldn't be considered representative of a nornal diet.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Now I am really curious about the food that must never be named.
    What could the japanese possibly have eaten that it is too horrible for us to imagine?
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    I believe the typical answer would be natto.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX



    You, sir, win +1 internets.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by VoxRationis View Post
    I believe the typical answer would be natto.
    The other option is uni, or sea urchin gonads.

    Natto is a bit of an acquired taste, but it at least it still looks like food.

    Uni sushi does not look appetising at all, however:
    Spoiler: Uni sushi
    Show

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Hijikata Special? (From Gintama). GINTAMA Hijikata Special Vs Gintoki Don - YouTube
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Now I am really curious about the food that must never be named.
    What could the japanese possibly have eaten that it is too horrible for us to imagine?
    I you are speaking about the portion of my post that was scrubbed, I mentioned some religious dietary restrictions, which is against the forum's rules.

    I didn't think it was important, since I didn't discuss religion itself, only that they influenced Japanese diet, but that's enough to get a warning...

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    Oh, the horror.

    Oddly specific question time with way more historic accuracy than practically needed:
    Is there some kind of standard issue 19th century military saber that could be found relatively easily and inexpensively in Denmark, but also looks decently nice and well made?
    I got an NPC who deludes herself to be one of the world's best saber fencers and prides herself in her authentic antique sword that was handed down through the generations, but really isn't anything special.
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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    From a quick search, maybe the M1843 sabre? More than 5,000 pieces were made.

    https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/bayonets-trench-knives-world/unit-marked-danish-model-1843-sword-need-help-identifying-regiments-356627/
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-12-31 at 07:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Got a Real-World Weapon, Armour or Tactics Question? Mk. XXIX

    I was thinking of something Danish, Prussian, or Swedish.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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