Best Melee Tempest Cleric Build

[Mikal]

I tried googling this: you can apply Destructive Wrath to a wand of lightning bolts?

My reading says yes, but wanted to confirm.

You can. The wording is
"When you roll lightning or thunder damage, you can use your Channel Divinity to deal maximum damage, instead of rolling."

Which means any thunder or lightning damage rolls you make qualify. That also means javelins of lightning, staff of thunder and lightning, etc.

That being said you can use that with any multiclass or no, it only requires attunement by a spell caster.

[Petrocorus]

I tried googling this: you can apply Destructive Wrath to a wand of lightning bolts?

My reading says yes, but wanted to confirm.

As Mikal said, you normally can anytime you roll for lightning or thunder damage.
But as always, this is actually up to the DM.

If a fighter, pal or barb in the party has picked up gauntlets of ogre power, then finds a girdle of hill giant str - they can give you the gauntlets, and you're suddenly doing much better in melee (if you're str based).

I run LMoP twice with two different groups, the two times the Gauntlet ended up on the hands of the cleric because the martial already had 18 Str or were Dex based.

[CMCC]

Two melee tempest builds I’ve come across:

This from Nerd Immersion:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/27962898/MHwavR

And this from treantmonk:
https://youtu.be/0jA4gy1rprE

[Nhorianscum]

Explain this in more detail please. What specifically would I take here?

Generic not be disabled/die, action economy, and mobility?

There's actually a lot to unpack charOP wise in terms of the nitty gritty of these dips and why they're worth trading progression and your "2nd 9th" for so I'm being a bit flip for brevity.

Short list of benefits:

Both: +5 ac, resistance to elements, some movement stuff.

Sorc: "free" buff uses, 180+DPR on burst rounds, doubled movement, at will dodge, etc.

WarWiz: +4 to all saves.

I'm not really focusing on the sorcerers origin or the wizards... whatever because this is a tier 3 dip and we just don't care about small potatoes.

A lot of the minutiae is just irrelevant.

[BoxANT]

Using PA just for the OA clause? Seems the first feature is redundant with spiritual weapon.

PAM bonus attack does not take up a spell slot, and gives the OA, excellent in tier 1.

once you hit tier 2, BB+SW become stronger, but you still are getting the OA

after getting WC, you can be applying 2 BB a turn (one on your turn, then another when they trigger OA), combined with SW & SG (&DS) damage is extremely high.

[Nhorianscum]

PAM bonus attack does not take up a spell slot, and gives the OA, excellent in tier 1.

once you hit tier 2, BB+SW become stronger, but you still are getting the OA

after getting WC, you can be applying 2 BB a turn (one on your turn, then another when they trigger OA), combined with SW & SG (&DS) damage is extremely high.

So a note on PAM+BB. It's a build that had always confused me.

Single tick no move BB at 8 = 15.5

Plain ole toll the dead = 11.

Wow. 4.5 DPR was gained from a feat and a multi. After accuracy is taken into consideration this is roughly 1 single solitary point of DPR gained.

Can we multitick BB +OA? Yes, we can also use the shove action by a cliff, both are out of our control. If the enemy is relevant... we probably want to hold that reaction for shield, or actually cast big boy spells, or just dodge. If the enemy is not relevant then our damage is... pointless.

This isn't to say BB is bad. Just that we are considering a spellcaster who's purpose is to cast spells, at level 9+ where they are just swimming in spells/day. Is spending a feat here to poke slightly better with a stick really relevant?

(If you're just doing it for fun no argument.)

[CMCC]

What is ‘multitick’?

[Nhorianscum]

What is ‘multitick’?

A shorter way of saying "an instance where booming blade both hits an enemy and/or activates its rider damage multiple times"

[Chugger]

Hey, I'll be responding to several posts - first, as others said, yes you can use the Tempest C's channel divinity to max a lightning bolt from a wand - and it's deadly (it's allowed in Adventurer's League - but maybe check with your DM before committing to such a build). If a diviner wiz is in the party, he can determine that one target of it failed his ST (if he rolled at least one low portent that morning) - but Legendary ST probably trumps even that, so keep that in mind.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Tempest 2/Sorc x is a common build (with the sorc going dragon or storm or in some way angling toward nuking, though any sorc origin can support nuking, as the meta magic you pick also determines how hard you hit - plus elemental adapt feat can help) -- or Tempest 2/Wiz x (Evo). Once per short rest you can max damage on lightning bolt and really hurt enemies.

The links that CMCC put look good - Treantmonk is very smart and very helpful, and a good teacher.

It just occurred to me that with the new book, Tasha's, you can make a High Elf Tempest cleric who, instead of getting +2 to dex gets +2 to wisdom, and +1 to Con or Str instead of Int. It would be easy to have 16 Wis and either 16 Str and 14 Con or 14 Str and 16 Con -- and get Booming Blade from High Elf (they get one cantrip). And you'd only have one dump stat at 8. If you don't mind 8 in Int, Dex and Cha, you can do 17 wis, 16 str and 15 con, and at lvl 4 do wis to 18 and con to 16 - I don't like having that many 8s.
Personally, I think I'd go Variant Human and Magic Init at lvl 1 for a feat, taking BB and maybe GFB - and Find Familiar for the lvl 1 spell.

Okay, let's talk about the suggestions that you take PAM feat - generally that's a no. The bonus action attack is normally very nice, but as a cleric you are using your b.a. for other things all the time. Once you're over lvl 7 or so, you'll be upcasting your basic combat routine for any "serious" fight - which is the same for almost any cleric - round 1 cast or upcast spirit guardians - round 2 b.a. cast or upcast Spiritual Weapon and use action to melee attack, cast Toll Dead, or Dodge.

If you have 16 str your PAM attack does 1d4 +3 or an average of 7.5 damage. Spiritual Weapon at lvl 2 does 1d8 + 4 or 5, depending on how advanced your Wis is, and that's 8.5 or 9.5 av damage. Sure, PaM would keep you from having to use a slot to get a b.a. attack from Spir Weapon, but you can upcast Spir Weapon - and PaM damage is capped. Ah, but we can add BB damage...except we can't - BB can't be cast on a bonus action - AND - since we actually did a spell action or spell attack action for our action, we didn't make a melee attack and we don't qualify for PaM's b.a. attack. Also BB has a 5' range and requires a _second_ feat to use at 10' reach range, spell sniper! So no, unless I'm completely wrong about this or badly missing something here, I'd not go for PAM as a tempest cleric. Your b.a. is pretty much occupied by spiritual weapon and the occasional healing word you may need to cast.

[CMCC]

Great stuff.

One thing I’m considering doing is taking BOTH magic initiate and spell sniper (Druid) - something about thorn whip and spirit guardians really appeals to me. And a 10 ft BB seems pretty strong.

Another thing that doesn’t get talked about (because of booming blade) is sentinel. Yeah on an OA you lose out on the BB rider, but locking someone down in your SG range before they can get out is bigger game basically always.

I can also envision ways to make both booming blade and sentinel work with a reach weapon, but I haven’t thought it through completely.

Lots of interesting options here.

[Blood of Gaea]

Great stuff.

One thing I’m considering doing is taking BOTH magic initiate and spell sniper (Druid) - something about thorn whip and spirit guardians really appeals to me. And a 10 ft BB seems pretty strong.

Another thing that doesn’t get talked about (because of booming blade) is sentinel. Yeah on an OA you lose out on the BB rider, but locking someone down in your SG range before they can get out is bigger game basically always.

I can also envision ways to make both booming blade and sentinel work with a reach weapon, but I haven’t thought it through completely.

Lots of interesting options here.

The problem you run into with taking both and the reason for Sentinel being underplayed is the same: Limited ASI slots. You need to both bump your Wis and get your needed feats.

Warcaster might not be as good as Sentinal at AoOs, but it does nonetheless improves them while also giving 1-2 other important features to your PC.

In the same way, there's some overlap with Thorn Whip and a Whip with Booming Blade. Both are ways to use magic to effect enemies at a slight distance and effect their movement.

+2 Wis, +2 Wis, Magic Initiate or Spell Sniper, Warcaster is going to be noticably better than something like Magic Initiate, Spell Sniper, Warcaster, Sentinal.

[CTurbo]

No need to over think a melee Cleric too much. Clerics with high AC and good means of concentration can deal an incredible amount of damage in melee without ever swinging a weapon.

[Nhorianscum]

Great stuff.

One thing I’m considering doing is taking BOTH magic initiate and spell sniper (Druid) - something about thorn whip and spirit guardians really appeals to me. And a 10 ft BB seems pretty strong.

Another thing that doesn’t get talked about (because of booming blade) is sentinel. Yeah on an OA you lose out on the BB rider, but locking someone down in your SG range before they can get out is bigger game basically always.

I can also envision ways to make both booming blade and sentinel work with a reach weapon, but I haven’t thought it through completely.

Lots of interesting options here.

There are a ton of enemies with 10+ft reach and all enemies can take the disengage action so while SS/sentinel+PAM+BB gets mentioned a lot it's less reliable than ye olde poison damage.

SG locks things down by default with good positioning doubling down on this is more the parties job than it is our clerics.

[Chugger]

I pretty much agree with the voices saying to go easy or take a more simple route.

When a build takes til lvl 12 or lvl 16 to really shine, what good is it? You suffer all those levels to create it, and then you're possibly burned out on the character - and how many campaigns last that long?

If you're starting at lvl 1 or lvl 3, you want a build that comes on line early and scales up well.

You're right that combining PAM and Spell Sniper and Sentinel is great, when theory-crafting - but you need (or most players say you need) a 20 in your prime attribute, too (or higher w/ a magic book) - so again when your build only begins to shine after 4 months of playing...what have you done?

You have two ways to start w/ BB and not MC: High Elf or variant human. Or just 1 dip something to get it (just know that if you're playing to 20 and if you plan on numerous adventures at 20, a lvl 20 cleric has a 100% guaranteed divine intervention once a week (wipe or TPK insurance, basically) - but a lvl 19 cleric lvl 1 something-else does not).

The basic cleric battle order is SG, SW and cantrip or melee, rinse and repeat. Sometimes b.a. cast healing word, or if using an already summoned SW to attack, cure wounds on action.

But keep working on it - maybe there is a good way to pull off some of this sneaky stuff, like lightning lure, and do amazing things - and at a lower level. Pls let us know if you figure it out. That would be great to know.

[Gignere]

You have two ways to start w/ BB and not MC: High Elf or variant human. Or just 1 dip something to get it (just know that if you're playing to 20 and if you plan on numerous adventures at 20, a lvl 20 cleric has a 100% guaranteed divine intervention once a week (wipe or TPK insurance, basically) - but a lvl 19 cleric lvl 1 something-else does not).
.

Another way is to start as variant half elf.

[Petrocorus]

All this theory crafting always bumps into the same problem.
You'll have 5 ASI over the course of your career, and you'll probably using two of them to max out your Wis.
And you'll want Warcaster or Res (Con) or both.
So you'll be left with only one free ASI, or maybe two, to spend on something else, and you may want to raise your Con or your Dex/Str.
And that's assuming you go up to level 20.

And all of this very cool combos (PAM +Sentinel, whip/halberd +BB) requires 2 or 3 feats to really work.
Even if you start as Vuman or if the DM gives a bonus feat to everyone, you'll probably not be able to make this work until later level or you'll have to sacrifice things that are more useful.

I had the issue myself. I enter a game where the DM did give a bonus feat to everyone (as i started to do myself), but also allowed Vuman.
It was for ToA.
So i decided to go for an arcane frontliner cleric with 2 starting feat at level 3.
I took MI for Shillelagh and Goodberries, but because the DM was keen on fatigue and poison, i had a big incentive to take Res (Con) instead of Warcaster.
Which mean that even with 2 starting feats and 2 ASI before reaching the big bad at maybe level 12, i knew i had to choose between delaying the maxing of Wisdom or not having the Warcaster + BB combo until level 12.
I choose to max out Wis because it improved my efficiency in all the other things i was doing, notably support and healing, and i also calculated that with Shillelagh + GFB + SW + SG (+ later Potent Spellcasting), i already had the potential to do a lot of damage, especially against a pack of lower level enemies. I lacked single target damage, but i had a SS Ranger and a GWM Fighter in the party.

You won't like it, but you will have to prioritize.

[BoxANT]

So a note on PAM+BB. It's a build that had always confused me.

Single tick no move BB at 8 = 15.5

Plain ole toll the dead = 11.

Wow. 4.5 DPR was gained from a feat and a multi. After accuracy is taken into consideration this is roughly 1 single solitary point of DPR gained.

Can we multitick BB +OA? Yes, we can also use the shove action by a cliff, both are out of our control. If the enemy is relevant... we probably want to hold that reaction for shield, or actually cast big boy spells, or just dodge. If the enemy is not relevant then our damage is... pointless.

This isn't to say BB is bad. Just that we are considering a spellcaster who's purpose is to cast spells, at level 9+ where they are just swimming in spells/day. Is spending a feat here to poke slightly better with a stick really relevant?

(If you're just doing it for fun no argument.)

the whole point of the build is to apply BB at 10ft via SS thus increasing likelihood of bonus BB dmg.

in addition, you also get DS bump at 8

assuming 16 Str @ 8 lvl

8.5+4.5+4.5 initial add 9 for bonus = 26.5

since applied at 10 ft, move back, the mook then moves into PAM OA range allowing for another BB 22.5

possible damage 49 (in addition to SW & SG)

slightly higher than 13 TtD

[CMCC]

the whole point of the build is to apply BB at 10ft via SS thus increasing likelihood of bonus BB dmg.

in addition, you also get DS bump at 8

assuming 16 Str @ 8 lvl

8.5+4.5+4.5 initial add 9 for bonus = 26.5

since applied at 10 ft, move back, the mook then moves into PAM OA range allowing for another BB 22.5

possible damage 49 (in addition to SW & SG)

slightly higher than 13 TtD

Yeah this is pretty awesome if you have the ASI to make it work. I prob will.

[Blood of Gaea]

And all of this very cool combos (PAM +Sentinel, whip/halberd +BB) requires 2 or 3 feats to really work.

BB + Reach only requires Spell Sniper. It's also nice to have it with Warcaster, but as you already state, that's a pretty solid choice even without this combo.

So Variant Human manages it handidly by just taking Warcaster at 1st level, then Spellsniper at 4th level.

It's fine to put off Booming Blade until that point, as the first bump in upfront and rider damage is when it becomes noticable. Honestly, you could probably even leave it off until 8th level.

This does mean that you'll be 2 Wis behind another VHuman who took Warcaster and just increased Wis, but you'll be on par with other races who took Warcaster at 4th level.

[CMCC]

The UA artificer (armorer) can also get lightning damage consistently at 3.

How does that compare?

You only lose one level of spell progression but int is your spell casting stat (same as blood hunter btw).

[Nhorianscum]

the whole point of the build is to apply BB at 10ft via SS thus increasing likelihood of bonus BB dmg.

in addition, you also get DS bump at 8

assuming 16 Str @ 8 lvl

8.5+4.5+4.5 initial add 9 for bonus = 26.5

since applied at 10 ft, move back, the mook then moves into PAM OA range allowing for another BB 22.5

possible damage 49 (in addition to SW & SG)

slightly higher than 13 TtD

The only guarentee here is 2d8+1d6+3 or 15.5 damage when using a 1 handed polearm.

A common happenstance in tier 2 is "BB on OA... oh hell in a handbasket it has 10 ft reach"

Not saying BB isn't good. Just saying that the wombo combos folks love to bring up with big numbers attached are rarely if ever relevant.

[CMCC]

The only guarentee here is 2d8+1d6+3 or 15.5 damage when using a 1 handed polearm.

A common happenstance in tier 2 is "BB on OA... oh hell in a handbasket it has 10 ft reach"

Not saying BB isn't good. Just saying that the wombo combos folks love to bring up with big numbers attached are rarely if ever relevant.

Wombo combo?

[KorvinStarmast]

I’m open to no multiclass. It’s a melee cleric that has to be versatile. Can tank, deal damage, buff, heal etc.

But again, if it’s a melee cleric and doesn’t do all of those things, that’s fine too. I’m mostly interested in seeing what’s out there rather than just theory crafting my specific build.

Since you want to mix it up, you may want to mitigate damage taken.
Tempest Cleric vHuman Feat = Heavy Armor Master.

+1 STR and damage reduction for B/P/S non magical. We discovered that DR is surprisingly useful well into the game. All of thise little -3's to damage done add up over a long adventure day, though it depends somewhat on what you encounter. not much good against flame skulls

Background: Sailor(Athl/Perception)
Cleric Skills: Insight, Survival (OoTA makes that handy)
Extra Skill: pick one, Arcana might be useful ...

With Point Buy:
Str 15 Dex 10 Con 13(+1) Int 10 Wis 15(+1) Cha 8
S 16 D 10 C 14 I 10 W 16 Ch 8

First ASI(4): +2 Wis or Warcaster.
Second ASI(8): whichever you didn't pick first of the two above.
Third ASI: +2 Wisdom.

Take a look at the combination of Hold Person and Inflict wounds. Granted, it is limited to being against a humanoids, but advantage on the attack and an auto crit on a hit ... 6d10. A nice little nova. Your allies also benefit from the autocrit and advantage for their attacks.

Against any enemy: blindness/deafness. The Blindness helps your allies and you take down a big monster. Granted, it being a constitution check does make saves more common ...

Fog Cloud: its uses are many, in terms of shaping a battlefield. If you upcast it, it gets bigger. :)

Just an experiential note:

The dwarf cleric in one of our campaigns had H.A.M.; at level 14, he was still benefitting from those little -3s; it surprised me to watch it play out. He'd also taken the Healer feat; it's a nice one but it does not seem to fit your theme.

If you are able to get booming blade by all means get it. Very nice thematic cantrip for that domain and can do some good damage.

[Nhorianscum]

Wombo combo?

Smash brothers thing referring to a specific repetitive combo that can be looped over and over but only with specific spacing, timing, and damage%.

[BoxANT]

The only guarentee here is 2d8+1d6+3 or 15.5 damage when using a 1 handed polearm.

A common happenstance in tier 2 is "BB on OA... oh hell in a handbasket it has 10 ft reach"

Not saying BB isn't good. Just saying that the wombo combos folks love to bring up with big numbers attached are rarely if ever relevant.

the build uses a 10 ft reach polearm to apply BB, and if a mook has a 10 ft. reach it will still trigger the OA&BB when it gets within 10 ft due to SS/POM/WC interaction.

has a pretty good success rate of getting BB rider & BB OA, and when combined w SG allows for a great deal of area control.

[CMCC]

Idk if I should start a new thread, but looking over cleric spells past 4th and 5th - I’m not very impressed. Actually I’m downright disappointed.

There’s almost nothing that speaks to me like the wizard list.

What are some of the good ones with some of the more interesting uses?

[KorvinStarmast]

Idk if I should start a new thread, but looking over cleric spells past 4th and 5th - I’m not very impressed. Actually I’m downright disappointed.

There’s almost nothing that speaks to me like the wizard list.

What are some of the good ones with some of the more interesting uses?

Banishment.
Raise Dead
Greater Restoration

Both are for me 'Must" picks.

If you get ambushed during long rests a lot Guardian of Faith.

Contagion has great potential, but it's a bit situational.

[CMCC]

Banishment.
Raise Dead

Both are for me 'Must" picks.

If you get ambushed during long rests a lot Guardian of Faith.

Those are all 5th and lower. Past 5 I’m like “meh”.

Compared to a wizard who at 6+ gets so many amazing spells.

Am I missing some must have spells (like contingency/simulacrum/wish), or is it smart to bounce out of cleric around lvl 9 or 10?

Is cleric 9/wiz 11 still a thing?

[KorvinStarmast]

Those are all 5th and lower. Past 5 I’m like “meh”.

Compared to a wizard who at 6+ gets so many amazing spells.

Am I missing some must have spells (like contingency/simulacrum/wish), or is it smart to bounce out of cleric around lvl 9 or 10?

Is cleric 9/wiz 11 still a thing?

Sorry, I misunderstood your question.
Not sure if you want to consider doing Cleric/Storm Sorcerer?
I understand the synergy is pretty good.

What we found with our high level Tempest Cleric:
Etherealness, Regenerate: incredibly useful when needed (The former is a fantastic scouting spell)
(Our DM had added the lingering wounds on a crit thing, which included lost limbs. This spell was used more than once)

Never had to use resurrection.
True Seeing can be handy as heck.
Heal got used A Lot.

8th level.
Earthquake. Can wreck an encounter. (But flying enemies don't care)
Antimagic Field: against some enemies, shut down certain problems.
We usually found that scouting ahead and getting intel on the enemy was when the cleric would prepare this one
Careful on placement, though. You can annoy a fellow spell caster.

Gate and Astral projeciton we never go to.

[Blood of Gaea]

Idk if I should start a new thread, but looking over cleric spells past 4th and 5th - I’m not very impressed. Actually I’m downright disappointed.

There’s almost nothing that speaks to me like the wizard list.

What are some of the good ones with some of the more interesting uses?

There is definitely a noticeable falloff, I think most people would agree.

Heal is a rather useful spell, one of the truly great healing options, 70 HP and clearing a few effects is nothing to scoff at.

Create Undead is interesting in that it can be pretty cool once you cast it at 8th level, having a couple of Wights who can control a bunch of zombies is pretty nifty.

True Seeing isn't the most riveting choice in the world, but when you look at the other options your fellow casters have, it's probably best for the Cleric to prepare it. It's of course campaign dependant, but I've had times where this was a life saver. It's doubly interesting if you have a buddy who loves using Illusions.

Conjure Celestial is probably your most interesting 7th level option. A Couatle has a decent pool of healing spells, and also makes a servicable summon in combat.

Regenerate is specifically interesting with Arcana Cleric, as they can dispel a 7th level spell on themselves each turn.

Symbol is hard to make use of, with it's high gold cost and 1 minute cast time. But if you do have the chance to ambush the BBEG, some of the effects are pretty brutal, like Stunning or Pain. One time a group of my players cast this outside a building then lured a group of enemies out into it.

Earthquake is one of those spells I love because it'd a lot of fun. Dropping building on your enemies is great, but don't expect it to outright kill them. Get more useful if your party has access to a form of mass flight.

Holy Aura isn't really interesting, but it is quite strong.

Mass Heal is probably the best 9th level spell to keep prepared, but I like keeping Astral Projection in mind. It doesn't come up a lot, but it's a safe way to travel around the Astral Plane