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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Hello, friends. I was revisiting an old thought experiment I worked on a while back, and I was hoping to get some input from the playground (both in terms of finding effects I've overlooked, and selecting optimal options).

    Our first challenge was to get an immunity to traditional damage:

    Spoiler: Immunity to Damage
    Show
    First, to become immune to most damage: Troll Blooded grants regeneration 1/fire and acid (feat, Dragon 319)
    To get immunity to nonlethal damage: Half-Undead (Gheden) (template, Dragon 313)
    To get immunity to fire damage: Mantle of the Fiery Spirit (spell, Sandstorm)
    To get immunity to acid damage: Voidmind (template, MMIII)
    To get immunity to the domination from Voidmind: Unseeley Fey (Summer's Caress) (template, Dragon 304)


    This leaves us with a giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid race with +4LA from templates that turn it into a Fey. If we apply the Voidmind template at level 3, after buying off our +1 LA, we can technically have it all bought off by level 21, which is still pretty painful.

    That covers damage, but leaves an enormous amount of other ways to be disabled. I tried to address as many as I could think of/find:

    Spoiler: Various Other Weaknesses and Answers
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    Ability Damage: Voidmind
    Ability Drain: Voidmind, bone knight 8
    Energy Drain: Voidmind, Half-Undead, bone knight 8
    Mind-Affecting Effects: Voidmind
    Generic Magic: Voidmind, golem grafts
    Vorpal: Clay golem grafts
    Suffocation: Air Variant

    Stunning: Half-Undead, bone knight 4
    Massive Damage: Half-Undead, bone knight 8

    Poison: Tainted Blood (template, Bestiary of Krynn), Periapt of proof against poison, bone knight 8

    Death Spells/Effects: Soulfire (armor enhancement, Book of Exalted Deeds), bone knight 8
    Exhausted/Fatigued: Sandals of the Vagabond, Horizon Walker 1, Armor of the Unending Hunt, bone knight 8
    Fatigued: Armor of the Unending Hunt, bone knight 8
    Disease: Periapt of Health, bone knight 8
    Sleep Effects: Wakeful Mind graft, bone knight 8

    Sleep: Wakeful Mind graft
    Freedom of Movement: Third Eye Freedom
    Blind: Raptor's Mask, Glaring Eye Graft

    Old Age: Wedded to History
    Petrified/Transformed: (Bind Vestige/Improved Bind Vestige for Haagenti)
    Nauseated: Strong Stomach
    Death Attacks: (Wedded to History/Pawn in the Great Game)
    Dazed: (Least Dragonmark/Mark of the Dauntless)
    Other SoD Fort Saves: Steadfast Determination

    Being trapped in a hole: flight from Unseeley Fey

    And we can take a Greater Efreeti bloodline to gain fire resistance, increased skill cap, improved initiative, etc.


    We could try something like this:

    Spoiler: Sample Build
    Show
    ECL Level Class Feat Note WBL
    2 1 Paladin Wedded to History, Troll Blooded Air-Variant Unseeley Fey Half-Undead (Gheden) Human; take a Greater Bloodline: Genie, Efreeti x3 (3000xp tax)

    Immunity: Old age, all damage except fire/acid, energy drain, fear, confusion, attempts to exercise mental control over us
    900/900
    3 2 Paladin Improved Initiative 2,700/2,700
    6 3 Paladin Bind Vestige Buy Sandals of the Vagabond, apply Voidmind template

    Immunity: Mind-Affecting, Ability Dramage, Ability Drain, SR 10+HD, Exhaustion, Disease
    9,000/13,000
    7 4 Paladin Buy Wakeful Mind graft (14k)

    Immunity: Sleep, Stunning, and no need to sleep (so we can now keep our resistance to psionic domination up at all times). Alternatively, kill the mind-flayers and earn your freedom, then replace the Wakeful Mind graft with a Glaring Eye graft. Also, gain fire resist 5.
    1,000/19,000
    8 5 Bone Knight 9,000/27,000
    9 6 Bone Knight Improved Bind Vestige Buy Mantle of the Fiery Spirit.

    Immunity: Transformation, fire damage.
    2,000/36,000
    10 7 Bone Knight Buy Raptor's Mask

    Immunity: Dazzling, Blinding
    11,500/49,000
    11 8 Bone Knight Dodge Buy Soulfire armor

    Immunity to death effects, death spells, energy drain, negative energy effects.

    This is the breakpoint from which we no longer have any benefit from having taken the half-undead template earlier, as our main draws (immunity to stunning, nonlethal damage) are redundant.
    3,500/66,000
    11 9 Bone Knight Strong Stomach Nausea 3,500/66,000
    12 10 Bone Knight 25,500/88,000
    13 11 Bone Knight Buy Ring of Freedom of Movement

    Immunity to misc movement-inhibiting effects
    7,500/110,000
    14 12 Bone Knight Steadfast Determination Sell Soulfire armor, Sandals of the Vagabond (regain 14,500). Boost will save and buy clay golem grafts. Buy Ring of Negative Protection.

    Immunity to Magic, negative levels, piercing/slashing (vorpal), poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, death effects, fatigue, exhaustion, ability drain, energy drain, massive damage, physical ability damage. Fire Resist 10.
    12,000/150,000


    I think that leaves Searing Spell damage (for which we still have fire resistance) and a few fort saves we need to pump for (positive energy plane, sphere of annihilation, etc). Dunking him in quintessence or encasing him in some sort of inescapable prison would also effectively "defeat" him. I suppose we should throw a ring of sustinance in there to prevent starvation, should food run scarce. The nice thing about most of these immunities is that they are extraordinary, so disjunctions, dispels, and AMFs won't do much to him.


    I was wondering: can anyone think of any other immunities or resistances we should be trying to address?
    How would you kill this character if tasked to it?

    Also: can anyone think of a more efficient way to address the aforementioned weaknesses in fewer than 12 levels? Or perhaps without having the character be more or less useless apart from never dying?
    Last edited by Doctor Despair; 2020-10-02 at 08:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    What I care about here, though, is that the highest standard of pedantry is upheld.
    Know-It-All
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    Phantom of the Opera
    Arthropods, the Bane of Giants
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    Mother Cyst of Invention
    Rule #15: a hero is only as good as his weapon!
    Master of Disguise

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Damage can still be inflicted via Searing Spell. I'm not sure how you want to deal with this, but a fire shield would reduce the damage further.

    As a Fey, the character is subject to Spirit Binding. Fist of Raziel 1 could deal with this.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    Damage can still be inflicted via Searing Spell. I'm not sure how you want to deal with this, but a fire shield would reduce the damage further.
    We have fire resistance, but a fire shield would be nice. A fiery tunic and/or a crown of flames could help there.

    A swordsage 1 maneuver grants fire resist 20 (Fire's Blessing)


    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    As a Fey, the character is subject to Spirit Binding. Fist of Raziel 1 could deal with this.
    Are Fey spirits? Regardless, would the Unseeley Fey Summer's Caress not provide the same benefit as Fist 1?
    Last edited by Doctor Despair; 2020-10-02 at 10:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    What I care about here, though, is that the highest standard of pedantry is upheld.
    Know-It-All
    Long Arm of the Law
    Phantom of the Opera
    Arthropods, the Bane of Giants
    Horselord
    Mother Cyst of Invention
    Rule #15: a hero is only as good as his weapon!
    Master of Disguise

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Despair View Post
    We have fire resistance, but a fire shield would be nice. A fiery tunic and/or a crown of flames could help there.
    Searing Spell does not care about fire resistance. It cares about fire immunity (which causes damage to be halved) and it cares about fire shield (since it is still fire).

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Despair View Post
    Are Fey spirits? Regardless, would the Unseeley Fey Summer's Caress not provide the same benefit as Fist 1?
    Yes, and yes.

    I'm slightly unclear on what the goal is here. For example, are body-swapping tactics allowed? Initiate of Mystra? Planar traits?

    For example, a Dragonborn Telthor Initiate of Mystra using Selective Spell[you] Antimagic Field is immune to all magic-source damage and all mundane source damage leaving only a handful of damage sources which count as magical while working in an AMF (Serrenwood, Soulknife, Orb of Force). It's available at ECL 11 in persistomancer form with level buyoff. Maybe add in Starmantle and Evasion (via Spelldancer) while keeping Forceward handy to finish off vulnerabilities.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    I'm slightly unclear on what the goal is here. For example, are body-swapping tactics allowed? Initiate of Mystra? Planar traits?
    Essentially, to make a character that is functionally immortal -- ideally while still being a remotely playable concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    For example, a Dragonborn Telthor Initiate of Mystra using Selective Spell[you] Antimagic Field is immune to all magic-source damage and all mundane source damage leaving only a handful of damage sources which count as magical while working in an AMF (Serrenwood, Soulknife, Orb of Force). It's available at ECL 11 in persistomancer form with level buyoff. Maybe add in Starmantle and Evasion (via Spelldancer) while keeping Forceward handy to finish off vulnerabilities.
    Telthor is interesting. As you said, the above build is vulnerable to Serrenwood archers, Soulknives, and prismatic wall/spheres, as well as other Initiates of Mystra/Invoke Magic users.

    Making the build in the OP incorporeal should grant a 50% miss chance to corporeal fire spells, so that's something else to consider, I suppose. 50% miss chance, 50% damage -- although the damage on postmen will probably still be enough to overwhelm him. :/
    Last edited by Doctor Despair; 2020-10-02 at 11:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    What I care about here, though, is that the highest standard of pedantry is upheld.
    Know-It-All
    Long Arm of the Law
    Phantom of the Opera
    Arthropods, the Bane of Giants
    Horselord
    Mother Cyst of Invention
    Rule #15: a hero is only as good as his weapon!
    Master of Disguise

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Despair View Post
    Making the build in the OP incorporeal should grant a 50% miss chance to corporeal fire spells, so that's something else to consider, I suppose. 50% miss chance, 50% damage -- although the damage on postmen will probably still be enough to overwhelm him. :/
    The only ways I know to resist an Initiate of Mystra Mailman delivering Transdimensional Searing Orbs of Fire while projecting an AMF over you are:
    (1) Via the static planar trait.
    (2) Via a Multi-headed Lernaen Lumi.
    (3) Via body-swapping.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    The only ways I know to resist an Initiate of Mystra Mailman delivering Transdimensional Searing Orbs of Fire while projecting an AMF over you are:
    (1) Via the static planar trait.
    (2) Via a Multi-headed Lernaen Lumi.
    (3) Via body-swapping.
    I guess orbs of fire still have to hit, so pumping miss chance can help, or somehow persisting a Delay Death could help, although if we're persisting Delay Death we don't need damage immunity, haha.

    I guess that leaves being an actual troll with a different kind of regeneration, so as to convert the searing damage to nonlethal... which brings us back to an unwieldy amount of HD. :/

    Edit: I guess a Ring of Spellturning would be handy for Searing Spell postmen, providing you have enough notice to activate it, or maybe some custom Ray Deflection item (I'm not a fan of custom items though...)
    Last edited by Doctor Despair; 2020-10-02 at 01:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    What I care about here, though, is that the highest standard of pedantry is upheld.
    Know-It-All
    Long Arm of the Law
    Phantom of the Opera
    Arthropods, the Bane of Giants
    Horselord
    Mother Cyst of Invention
    Rule #15: a hero is only as good as his weapon!
    Master of Disguise

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Despair View Post
    I guess orbs of fire still have to hit, so pumping miss chance can help, or somehow persisting a Delay Death could help, although if we're persisting Delay Death we don't need damage immunity, haha.

    I guess that leaves being an actual troll with a different kind of regeneration, so as to convert the searing damage to nonlethal... which brings us back to an unwieldy amount of HD. :/

    Edit: I guess a Ring of Spellturning would be handy for Searing Spell postmen, providing you have enough notice to activate it, or maybe some custom Ray Deflection item (I'm not a fan of custom items though...)
    Miss chance maxes out at 50% per the RC. Delay Death and magic items are all magic-based and hence will be suppressed if our hypothetical initiate of mystra mailman envelops you in AMF and delivers the mail.

    The cheapest kind of fire-invulnerable regeneration I'm aware of is available via War Troll, although a voidmind half-gheden war-troll is ECL 22.

    The lernaen multi-headed Lumi is only ECL 10. It's vulnerable to death effects delivered while it's inside of an AMF, but maybe there is some way to deal with that.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help With DIY Emerald Legion: the Immortal Do-Nothing

    I looked into the Lernaen multi-headed Lumi. Deadgrim 3 seems to be the easiest way to get ahold of immunity to death effects. Immunity to disintegrate is much more difficult---it doesn't seem to be possible as an extraordinary ability. It looks like the proof against transmutation armor ability or Improved Bind Vestige[Haagenti] addresses this although a vulnerability to antimagic field remains.

    Even that isn't perfect due to some non-transmutation non-death will-or-die effects like Finger of Expulsion (Dragon #330).

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