Tactical Challenge #3

[KorvinStarmast]

I do not love the "rain of children" scenario. It exerts time-pressure and makes the scenario harder, but it feels contrived, because it apparently effectively removes from play solutions which otherwise make a whole lot of sense (like Hypnotic Pattern to neutralize the Scorpions/Devils/Cultists), and yet--it doesn't feel like those should be bad solutions! I would rather have had this be something like the cultists guarding a doorway behind which sacrifices are occurring--something that solutions for disabling or evading the doorway guard bad guys as good as solutions for reducing bad guys to zero HP. Nevertheless I enjoyed this thread--thanks @da newt for the effort you put into it.

I don't either, and I have three players who'd be angry with me for doing that as a scenario. (Found out the hard way on that one a couple of years ago).

My entire idea was to stop the rain of kids but here's the problem with my approach: it was too meta. The party doesn't actually know it will start raining kids until the first one comes out of the ceiling and lands in the black pudding.

What I like about the scenario is that it exercised my "think out of the box" muscles a bit. My whole idea was to make the battlefield obscured and move to stop whomever it was up there pushing kids into the pit. Once that was secured, defeat the enemy in detail, killing cultists first as they had ranged weapons and spells.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Sorry - I left a bit out. When you defeat all your opponents, the children stop falling (Edited). Yes this is silly and contrived, but it provides a reason to hurry.

Frog - Web is a good option, but easy to undo, you hope the kids fail their Dex save, and the Evil folks are still free to do whatever to sacrifice the kids ...

Dork - Sure, add skills as desired.

Re: Web... Is it easy to undo any more than any other spell? My understanding is that you only burn away the squares that you target. Also I generally let folks fail saving throws if they want to, which I think is RAW. This seems like the best course of action for Wizard r2. It also potentially seals in anyone who has been pushed into the pit as an added bonus.

This scenario makes me think there is some sort of missing level 1 spell that could create a useful item, like say a decent sized plank.

[Valmark]

This scenario makes me think there is some sort of missing level 1 spell that could create a useful item, like say a decent sized plank.

That's a 4th level spell, actually. Which takes 10 minutes to cast.

Or a 14th level illusionist, I guess.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

That's a 4th level spell, actually. Which takes 10 minutes to cast.

Or a 14th level illusionist, I guess.

Seems like if you can make a web as a level 2 spell, a plank (temporarily) should be level 1. I think there was a thread a few days ago about spells you thought were missing from 5e; I now have one to add: Create Useful Item

[Nhorianscum]

Seems like if you can make a web as a level 2 spell, a plank (temporarily) should be level 1. I think there was a thread a few days ago about spells you thought were missing from 5e; I now have one to add: Create Useful Item

It's gamey but I'm leaning towards...

Gust of wind can just shove the kids out of range of the pit with no save as they autofail the strength check due to "being airborne with no flight" and starting their turn in the area.

They still die/go into death saves but the druid can easily revive 2-3 of them.

[Valmark]

Seems like if you can make a web as a level 2 spell, a plank (temporarily) should be level 1. I think there was a thread a few days ago about spells you thought were missing from 5e; I now have one to add: Create Useful Item

This makes sense, I thought you meant permanent. Though the kids would probably die smashed against the plank, I think?

It's gamey but I'm leaning towards...

Gust of wind can just shove the kids out of range of the pit with no save as they autofail the strength check due to "being airborne with no flight" and starting their turn in the area.

They still die/go into death saves but the druid can easily revive 2-3 of them.

Wouldn't they die outright? Or is instant death by too much damage a variant rule in 5e?

[Unoriginal]

Seems like if you can make a web as a level 2 spell, a plank (temporarily) should be level 1. I think there was a thread a few days ago about spells you thought were missing from 5e; I now have one to add: Create Useful Item

I don't see the logic. Creating a solid object of decent size is a much bigger deal than a web.

The Conjuration Wizard can conjure a temporary 3ft-wide, 10 pounds object as part of their subclass specialization. A lvl 1 spell shouldn't overshadow that.

[da newt]

"I do not love the "rain of children" scenario. It exerts time-pressure and makes the scenario harder, but it feels contrived, because it apparently effectively removes from play solutions which otherwise make a whole lot of sense (like Hypnotic Pattern to neutralize the Scorpions/Devils/Cultists), and yet--it doesn't feel like those should be bad solutions!"

I freely admit the entire thing is HUGELY CONTRIVED. The goal was to add some more bad guys (#), some terrain, some ranged attacks, some cover, some time constraints, and something other than killing stuff to the mix. I never claimed to be good at encounter creation.

Neutralizing / controlling the bad guys should still be very viable, it just doesn't stop the rain of children - but it does make it much easier to catch them and knock off the bad guys.

I'll roll out my plan later today.

[Nhorianscum]

Wouldn't they die outright? Or is instant death by too much damage a variant rule in 5e?

Oh probably, unless they're suuuper lucky, but that's why we crowdfund revifys with gentle repose!

Any Druid Ever: As long as they're not eaten by slimes we can both save children, and hear their bones shatter on impact, it's the perfect plan!

(So disclaimer, Druids can vomit bee's. I cannot conceive of a good aligned sentient being that spent years mastering the art of vomiting bee's.)

[KorvinStarmast]

Oh probably, unless they're suuuper lucky, but that's why we crowdfund revifys with gentle repose!

Any Druid Ever: As long as they're not eaten by slimes we can both save children, and hear their bones shatter on impact, it's the perfect plan!

(So disclaimer, Druids can vomit bee's. I cannot conceive of a good aligned sentient being that spent years mastering the art of vomiting bee's.)

I can see a prankster good Druid with a sense of humor, and a twinkle in their eye, learning how to vomit bees just to have, at the right time, a perfect prank to pull on an overly stuffy local noble ...

[da newt]

I just figured out that this ruling causes any Dex 15 animals to have their turn after the Devil before the Cultist - but do they go after or before the Druid? Since the Druid has a lower Dex, I'll rule the Dex 15 animal will take their turn after the Devil but before the Druid (not until round 2) ... {Crap I just shot myself in the foot}

"For conjured animals, assume initiative roll 10 + dex, compare to same rule for opponents (devils 12, cultists 12, scorpion 11), insert into initiative order, for Dex ties - conjures go after opponents and a 13 dex goes before a 12 even though both are +1."

[Nhorianscum]

I can see a prankster good Druid with a sense of humor, and a twinkle in their eye, learning how to vomit bees just to have, at the right time, a perfect prank to pull on an overly stuffy local noble ...

Well yes but he really only mastered the trick after legally changing his name to "Candyman, Candyman, Candyman, Candyman, Candyman"

[MaxWilson]

...Druids can vomit bee's...

How? I missed that one.

I also don't see Gentle Repose on the druid list.

[Valmark]

How? I missed that one.

I also don't see Gentle Repose on the druid list.

It's on the wizard's list! Yeah, that druid comment is misleading.
I too have no idea how they vomit bees though.

[Nhorianscum]

How? I missed that one.

I also don't see Gentle Repose on the druid list.

I'm both exaggerating and being a bit facetious for the sake of humor in a semi-insane scenario that I may or may not use.

I need to lay the groundwork for "why is your entire party evil but also saving kid?!?!?!?"

[KorvinStarmast]

I need to lay the groundwork for "why is your entire party evil but also saving kid?!?!?!?"

Because vomiting bees makes me crazy

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[da newt]

So I rolled out my plan, and it went like this: (M=miss, H=hit, F=fail, S=success)

EK - opens door just enough to slip in, moves to Devil W of pit and shoves him in the pit F, S
Devil #2 - moves around pit to EK and attacks: M, M
Druid - pokes head into door, cast Conjure Animals for 8 Giant Bats, 2 over Cultists, 1 between cultists, 1 over Devil, 2 over scorpions, 2 @ 10' North of scorpions. Tells bats "Drag them in the pit!" Druid ducks out of room behind door.
Cultists - attack bats. SW H-5hp, SF M, SW M, SF H - 9hp
Wizard - peaks through door, casts Fireball on Scorpions, sculpts out bats, both Scorpion fail save, 28 hp. Wiz ducks behind door and Druid
Scorpion - attack bats, C H-6hp, C H-5hp, S M (2 bats grappled), C M, C M, S H-Bat killed

EK - shoves Devil #2 into pit S, moves to Scorpion, H-7hp, action surge, H-10hp, M
Bats - grapple and drag, M, S C#1, M, S C#2, grappled bats HELP, S S#1, F
(at this point 2 devils, 2 cultists, and 1 Scorpion are in the pit)
Devils - dissolving
Druid - moves into melee, BA Wild Shape Polar Bear, att Scorpion M, H-13hp
Wiz - Fireball Scorpion, sculpt allies, Scorpion makes save, 14-hp Scorpion #2 dead

Wiz is ready to feather fall kid. All bad guys are dead or at bottom of pit. Some Bats are still around to catch kids. Druid can wild shape to anything to get kids, nothing left at this point but mop up.


My entire plan hinges on taking advantage of shove and grapple and a pit that consumes all. If Bats can't grapple, then I'd still Conjure Animals but use them for damage and meat shield - small-ish room makes large beasts tough to fit, maybe 8 Dimetrodon ... I couldn't find anything better than sculpted Fireball for the Wiz - I was hoping for a good control / debuff.

What could I do better?

[KorvinStarmast]

What could I do better?

Who is bringing the beer?