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Thread: Nale's return

  1. - Top - End - #31
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Nale's return

    Not only was Crystal killed in a manner that allowed for her to be raised easily, Haley gives her a message for Bozzok as if she intended Crystal to be raised. She didn't expect a golem, but she was expecting her to come back.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Flumph

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius View Post
    Crystal was simply killed and could have been easily raised with a rather simple and well established spell. Her becoming a flesh golem wasn't a way around her final departure. On the contrary, it was a needlessly complicated way to bring her back.
    Nale on the other hand was thoroughly destroyed by a high level psion to make sure he can't come back. So yeah, him returning - albeit a different kind of creature - does kinda feel like cheating the stakes a bit.
    What I meant was that Nale coming back as a fiend would be rather similar to Crystal coming back as a golem. I didn't mean to imply that their remains were in similar condition, or that the likelihood of their return was similarly plausible. (I wrote that post in a hurry due to IRL stuff, so it's a bit sloppy; my apologies.)

    I don't think that Nale returning as a literal fiend who had lost all semblance of humanity would cheapen the stakes, assuming his fate was established as sufficiently pathetic and separate from "oh, he's back as himself." That said, I'm still not saying it's likely - it seems pretty clear that Rich doesn't intend for Nale to play a major role in the story going forward, except perhaps as motivation for Sabine's (and maybe Thog's?) actions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Nale's return

    The difference is that was an unfinished narrative between Haley, Crystal, Bozzok, so the Giant tied that loose end by having them come back to hunt Haley and as a result meet their ultimate end.
    Bringing back the Linear Guild now on the contrary would add nothing to the story and only distract from focusing on the real villains.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Nale's return

    Nale got nailed, so not Nale.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Nale's return

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex View Post
    Bringing back the Linear Guild now on the contrary would add nothing to the story and only distract from focusing on the real villains.
    Got it in one.
    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Nale got nailed, so not Nale.
    Thank you, Thog's surrogate.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Nale's return

    I really liked Nale, sadly I'm the minority here.

    Theorically a wish/miracle could bring him back; and the same goes to Malak.

    Don't think it's gonna happen - storywise it was clear we're done with that character and with the linear guild.

    We can still get a surprize with them, but I doubt it.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Flumph

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex View Post
    The difference is that was an unfinished narrative between Haley, Crystal, Bozzok, so the Giant tied that loose end by having them come back to hunt Haley and as a result meet their ultimate end.
    Bringing back the Linear Guild now on the contrary would add nothing to the story and only distract from focusing on the real villains.
    I don't disagree with that. I never said it was likely, only that Nale becoming a demon wouldn't be comparable to a cheap True Resurrection that made Nale's death irrelevant. It would almost certainly add nothing useful to the story, though, hence why it probably won't happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Player: Bob twists the vault door super hard, that should open it.
    DM: Why would you think that?
    Player: Well, Bob thinks it. And since Bob has high Int and Wis, and a lot of points in Dungeoneering, he would probably know a thing or two about how to open vault doors.
    Ah yes, the Dungeon-Kruger effect.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironkid View Post
    I really liked Nale, sadly I'm the minority here.
    I like him too, but I'd much rather a story show some discipline and let a character whose narrative arc is finished lie than see characters brought back to life as fanservice.

    *Shakes fist at the bloated, glurge-filled final arc of Naruto*

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Nale's return

    I like Nale, but I don’t want him back. He’s just not relevant anymore, him coming back would just detract from the story and from his character.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Nale’s dead baby. Nale’s dead.
    In the end he was the final Nale in his own coffin.



    In don't actually have a good idea for what kind of other creature/soul they would be using said vessel for, so I don't really have a counter case. But Nale? If you were three archfiends out to something something end of the world wiping out the gods muhaha, and your plan hinged on finding a suitable vessel for having a follower get their hands dirty to give everything the final push, would you be putting your money on Nale? Good old undependable, think's he's smarter than you, cares only for himself and maybe Sabine Nale?

    I'd rather bring back Thog. Sure, the only reason he was worth anything was his physical prowess which he would no longer have given that this is a new body, but at least he's easy to manipulate into working for you.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Nale's return

    People are taking it for granted that the IFCC's "vessel" is a person, but that's not confirmed.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    People are taking it for granted that the IFCC's "vessel" is a person, but that's not confirmed.
    I believe the reason for that is the reference to "Mixing business and pleasure". She's a succubus, after all.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Elemental View Post
    I believe the reason for that is the reference to "Mixing business and pleasure". She's a succubus, after all.
    The "mixing business with pleasure" quote means that Sabine is both taking her vacation days and retrieving the vessel on the same excursion. It does not necessarily mean that the act of retrieving the vessel is both business and pleasure.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Elemental View Post
    I believe the reason for that is the reference to "Mixing business and pleasure". She's a succubus, after all.
    And she managed to cheat on Nale four times in a few hours without even trying once. She’s plenty capable of having sex on the job even when the job doesn’t involve a person.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    I'd rather bring back Thog. Sure, the only reason he was worth anything was his physical prowess which he would no longer have given that this is a new body, but at least he's easy to manipulate into working for you.
    (I would like to remind you, if I may, that so far as we know, Thog might very well be alive and well. For my part, I do kind of expect to see him again (although I'm far from certain he will make any sort of impact on the plot).)

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    I'm not seeing it.

    The Order has outgrown Nale's convoluted childish schemes-- they face more serious threats now, ones that don't include a narcissistic evil twin and all the Wacky Hijinks that implies.

    As others have said, BRitF wrapped up his story very effectively. He's gone, and he's not coming back.
    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I hope that you are correct. If Rich's intention was to create a character who evoked a "not this jerk again" reaction each time he appeared on screen, he succeeded admirably.
    Haha, I often felt this way too and that's why I think this is correct. Nale is a B-list villain (Tarquin was right about that, at least, even if he failed to see he was one, too), and a petty one at that; the stakes the Order is playing at have moved past him.

    Nale coming back would be like Ultros coming back for one more fight right before Kefka.

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Nale's return

    And narratively speaking (heheh), there was way too much finality to the murder and angst on Elan's part for him to come back. "I'm not a twin anymore" was a huge moment for Elan's character, and to undo that would be tactless. Nale is as dead as a high level adventurer can be short of a soul capture or getting Snarl'd, I think he's done.

    That said, I'm almost certain that Thog and Sabine are going to make some return. Thog's ending is too ambiguous to not get closure for such a major character. , and the IFCC mentioned Sabine running some plot-important errand.

    Personally I'm interested to see how The Giant is gonna end Thog's story; writing a satisfying ending for a character who's childishly likeable but also an unrepentant murderer and a danger to everyone around them is not an enviable task. I'm 50/50 on either his dying or getting some kind of pseudo-redemption (at least curbing his murderous tendencies)

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Sabine is assured to still have a role in the story thanks to her association with the IFCC, but other than a brief apparition where is killed for good like Crystal and Bozzok I don't think there is anything left to be said about Thog.

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Nale's dead.

    Also, there's little indication that the "vessel" is a person. It could be, but it also could be something completely different. It could be argued that it's implied she will seduce the "vessel" they need, but she could also just be doing that "business" and "pleasure" things as distinct but alternating enterprises. For example, if your company pays you plane tickets to go do business abroad, you may take advantage of the time there to sight see a little bit, or vice versa. You mix in pleasure and business, without these two referring to exactly the same thing.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Ron Miel's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    Also, there's little indication that the "vessel" is a person. It could be, but it also could be something completely different.
    Maybe it's the Ming.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    Maybe it's the Ming.
    I'd like that. :P
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Nale's return

    Hmm.

    Elan's arc regarding Nale and their father is done...

    But Nale and Sabine's arcs could be continued.

    I can see the possibility of Nale interfering with the Trio of Evil to help Sabine get back at them, or for some other long game at Sabine's instigation.

    I can also see Nale being brought back as some kind of demon, devil, or construct, to have him help Elan because it's NALE who grew after Targuin killed him.

    But if he stays dead, that's fine too, and probably the best option.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hariman View Post
    But if he stays dead, that's (…) probably the best option.
    Yes.
    I'd say that at this point Nale will only get relevant as a memory motivating Sabine if in any way at all.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaLucaray View Post
    Personally I'm interested to see how The Giant is gonna end Thog's story; writing a satisfying ending for a character who's childishly likeable but also an unrepentant murderer and a danger to everyone around them is not an enviable task. I'm 50/50 on either his dying or getting some kind of pseudo-redemption (at least curbing his murderous tendencies)
    I think my solution would be that he's alive because the Order didn't resolve every problem in the entire world.

    Sabine is assured to still have a role in the story thanks to her association with the IFCC, but other than a brief apparition where is killed for good like Crystal and Bozzok I don't think there is anything left to be said about Thog.
    But The Giant hasn't even gotten into Thog's love of 18th century porcelain dolls.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Nale coming back would be like Ultros coming back for one more fight right before Kefka.
    Hrm... the Order DID bump into him while visiting a Coliseum...

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Nale's return

    Nale was rarely if ever that big of a threat to the Order I feel. The story has long escalated past him, if he was brought back now he'd be like the least of the order's concerns and at most a glorified minion to the fiend triumvirate.

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