OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

[JonahFalcon]

Xykon was a sorcerer in life. CHA based, not INT.

Except Liches get a +5 to INT.

And you're confusing INT with WIS.

Intelligence tells you it's raining. Wisdom tells you to open an umbrella.

And Xykon has already shown it's better to look like a fool than actually be a fool.

[Goblin_Priest]

Depending on the layout of the dungeon, there might just straight up not be anything for tracks to be left on though

It is pretty surprising that Oona didn't realize that they melded into the ground. That detail should have been obvious to someone who was looking close enough to tell apart the boots from each of the protagonists.

For one, they never actually went inside. That should be plainly visible both outside and inside. Anyone living in temperate climates knows that walking with your boots inside leaves traces. Especially so if the building is heated, but that's not a requirement, as your boots will pick up snow, will partially melt it, and will shed it all over the place.

I'd also have expected the process of melding with stone to displace a large quantity of snow, but I guess we'll just have to handwave that as not being the case, due to MagicTM.

On a not quite related not, but I think it important to point out that they melded into stone /outside/ the dungeon. It could be debated about whether that still qualifies as multidimensional stone, but I'd be inclined to say that only the interiors are warded in such a manner, because "multidimensional stone" sounds like jargon for "eff off, no shortcuts allowed", and not something that strictly prevents a single type of bypassing obstacles. After all, if there were possible shortcuts... Team Evil would have used them.

[Worldsong]

As long as we are considering shell games, has anybody considered that the halfling from the order of the scribble may be playing a huge con? Maybe the gate is directly below the dwarven statue.

So the faction who believes the statue is the key to the Gate is now literally digging itself into a hole. I like it.

Except Liches get a +5 to INT.

And you're confusing INT with WIS.

Intelligence tells you it's raining. Wisdom tells you to open an umbrella.

And Xykon has already shown it's better to look like a fool than actually be a fool.

In 3.5 Liches only get a +2 to INT.

Of course they also get a +2 to WIS and CHA but even so being a Lich doesn't guarantee that Xykon is a genius.

I'm with Metastachydium that while Xykon is smarter than he lets on his usual behaviour is pretty dumb so being smarter than he lets on isn't the same as secretly being a mastermind. Also intelligence manifests in different ways and Xykon's intelligence seems to be more for clever ideas than intricate plans where he carefully moves pieces.

Spoiler: SoD

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And yes him enchanting MitD to eat Redcloak and spit out the phylactery was definitely a smart move but I'd say it falls in the category of a clever idea rather than a sign of him being a master planner who makes sure everything goes exactly the way he wants it to through deft manipulation of events.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Excuse me, we have the full four seasons here - Summer, tornado season, lesser summer, and tornado season.

I thought your seasons were tornado and hurricane.

[Theshipening]

It could be debated about whether that still qualifies as multidimensional stone, but I'd be inclined to say that only the interiors are warded in such a manner, because "multidimensional stone" sounds like jargon for "eff off, no shortcuts allowed", and not something that strictly prevents a single type of bypassing obstacles. After all, if there were possible shortcuts... Team Evil would have used them.

Except Meld Into Stone isn’t, as far as I understand it, bypassing or a shortcut, you literally just Meld Into Stone, you don’t see anything and then choose when you go out. It’s a hiding spell, not one to travel through walls.

[BloodSquirrel]

I only remember one such example.

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Right-Eye, Right-Eye's family, Dorukan, Roy

And that's in addition to moments like

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when Redcloak tried to hold Xykon's phylactery hostage, and got shut down hard.

.

Again- can you can a single counterexample, where Redcloak successfully manipulated Xykon into doing something that he genuinely didn't want to do?

Disagreed. The only major mistake Redcloak made there was not accounting for the possibility of V's deal with the fiends. Were Darth!V not to breach their defenses, were it not for the phylactery getting lost and O-Chul escaping as a consequence of that, Xykon probably would not have gotten serious about it for another few months.

I don't see how that's relevant. The point is that once Xykon did get serious, Redcloak found himself with zero control over situation. He was relying, 100%, on Xykon just not caring very much. And that's fine in so far as it goes- Xykon's apathy is worth using to his advantage when he can- but the problem is that Redcloak is letting himself be fooled into thinking that getting Xykon to sit quietly for a few months when Xykon has a newly conquered city and a Paladin to play with is evidence that Redcloak was the real boss. And he still hasn't taken the hint.

Case in point: Redcloak lucked out big time with Tsukiko. If she hadn't stupidly gone to his study to gloat instead of going straight to Xykon with what she knew, the whole gig would have been up right then and there. That would have blown everything up far more than V did.

For as dramatic as all that was, all V managed to accomplish was dropping Xykon's phylactery in the sewer. Xykon didn't care about anything else. It was, all in all, a very minor setback to him, but it was enough to get him to completely derail Redcloak's plans for Gobbotopia, forbid him from regenerating his eye, and refuse to take his advice in the desert. The very moment Xykon had any real reason to feel personally threatened he smacked Redcloak down hard, and Redcloak couldn't do anything but say "Yes, Sir".

[BloodSquirrel]

I'm with Metastachydium that while Xykon is smarter than he lets on his usual behaviour is pretty dumb so being smarter than he lets on isn't the same as secretly being a mastermind. Also intelligence manifests in different ways and Xykon's intelligence seems to be more for clever ideas than intricate plans where he carefully moves pieces.

Yeah, but Xykon doesn't have to be a mastermind. A clever plan when your opponent thinks that all you can do is bash things is better than an intricate plan when your opponent expects one out of you and does some contingency planning of his own. For the most part, all Xykon has to do is just not let on to how much he knows. Asking Tsukiko to research his half of the ritual wasn't much more than common sense, and being less suspicious after Redcloak killed her would be flat-out stupid. But Redcloak doesn't seem to have questioned it very much when Xykon let the matter drop. So now Redcloak is marching into the endgame without knowing whether Xykon is going to cooperate when the big moment comes.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm with Metastachydium that while Xykon is smarter than he lets on his usual behaviour is pretty dumb

I prefer to characterize his behavior as spontaneous, rather like his spell-casting.
Impulsive, even.

[Lord Torath]

"Your knuckles say 'COBRA'. Did you ever kill anyone?"
"We're getting off the subject."

Is this a Princess Bride joke?

Nope. Lilo and Stitch. I, uh, abbreviated the conversation a bit. Just pointing out that Han's 'parsec' gaff is not really what I was trying to talk about.

Didn't help much, though.

Surely 'loaded with bear' would be the most dangerous? Or does that only work when referring to druids?

Loaded with bear is definitely the most dangerous!

[HeroErix]

I was originally concerned that the warg would fail to pick up the scent or at least note that it stopped at the doorway. Instead, Xykon reports that the "furball" has picked up a non-existent trail. I can't imagine a warg, whose sense of smell is incredible in classic D&D, mistaking the smell of two dwarves with something else. Accordingly, I think that Auntie Oona is playing a deeper game.

Honestly when Xykon said, "The fuzzball found a trail!" I assumed that he was referring to Oona on the outside, but if there is an implication that Oona or Greyview "found" a trail on the inside of the dungeon then that would certainly be interesting.

[Snails]

It is pretty surprising that Oona didn't realize that they melded into the ground. That detail should have been obvious to someone who was looking close enough to tell apart the boots from each of the protagonists.

For one, they never actually went inside. That should be plainly visible both outside and inside. Anyone living in temperate climates knows that walking with your boots inside leaves traces. Especially so if the building is heated, but that's not a requirement, as your boots will pick up snow, will partially melt it, and will shed it all over the place.

I'd also have expected the process of melding with stone to displace a large quantity of snow, but I guess we'll just have to handwave that as not being the case, due to MagicTM.

It is perfectly believable that Oona is skilled enough to track in soft snow, but never progressed beyond that level because it just does not matter for his lifestyle.

As you looking for signs inside the door, well, apparently Oona is neither that good nor that smart. And there is lots of different cheap/low level magic which would obscure/remove the snow coming off the boots, even if it does not appear on the standard cleric list, e.g. prestidigitation.

[Gallowglass]

I don't see how that's relevant. The point is that once Xykon did get serious, Redcloak found himself with zero control over situation. He was relying, 100%, on Xykon just not caring very much. And that's fine in so far as it goes- Xykon's apathy is worth using to his advantage when he can- but the problem is that Redcloak is letting himself be fooled into thinking that getting Xykon to sit quietly for a few months when Xykon has a newly conquered city and a Paladin to play with is evidence that Redcloak was the real boss. And he still hasn't taken the hint.

Case in point: Redcloak lucked out big time with Tsukiko. If she hadn't stupidly gone to his study to gloat instead of going straight to Xykon with what she knew, the whole gig would have been up right then and there. That would have blown everything up far more than V did.

For as dramatic as all that was, all V managed to accomplish was dropping Xykon's phylactery in the sewer. Xykon didn't care about anything else. It was, all in all, a very minor setback to him, but it was enough to get him to completely derail Redcloak's plans for Gobbotopia, forbid him from regenerating his eye, and refuse to take his advice in the desert. The very moment Xykon had any real reason to feel personally threatened he smacked Redcloak down hard, and Redcloak couldn't do anything but say "Yes, Sir".

Don't mistake "couldn't" for "didn't"

Redcloak chose to not confront Xykon because Xykon is a useful tool for him that he's been carefully curating for decades for his final end goal. Sometimes that curation requires nudging him in a direction. Sometimes that curation requires following him down a different direction. Both directions lead toward his final end goal by different circuitous routes.

Personally I believe both points of this argument are wrong.

Xykon is not as smart as you like to think he is.
Redcloak is not as in control as he likes to think he is.

[Metastachydium]

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Right-Eye, Right-Eye's family, Dorukan, Roy

And that's in addition to moments like

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when Redcloak tried to hold Xykon's phylactery hostage, and got shut down hard.

.

None of those, except arguably the first one (which is the one I referred to) was a trap of any sort.

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Right-Eye's family was intimidated into working for him through sheer force, Dorukan

and Roy were killed through liberal application of magic wielded as a cudgel. Xykon is weirdly pragmatic and that makes him a resourceful opponent in tactical situations, but that has precious little to do with careful planning.

Again- can you can a single counterexample, where Redcloak successfully manipulated Xykon into doing something that he genuinely didn't want to do?

Technically pursuing the Plan and letting him consolidate Gobbotopia are things Xykon would have never done if he knew what Redcloak knows. So Redcloak fed him the right amount of information, did not correct his wrong assumptions and so on, and so forth. Xykon is still pursuing the Plan he has nothing to gain from, and Redcloak managed to consolidate Gobbotopia, so one of the ploys worked and the other is yet to fail.

I don't see how that's relevant. The point is that once Xykon did get serious, Redcloak found himself with zero control over situation. He was relying, 100%, on Xykon just not caring very much. And that's fine in so far as it goes- Xykon's apathy is worth using to his advantage when he can- but the problem is that Redcloak is letting himself be fooled into thinking that getting Xykon to sit quietly for a few months when Xykon has a newly conquered city and a Paladin to play with is evidence that Redcloak was the real boss. And he still hasn't taken the hint.

Like I said, the only reason why Xykon got a reason to get serious before planned was something Redcloak could neither foresee, nor prevent (i.e. Darh!V penetrating the impenetrable Cloister).

Case in point: Redcloak lucked out big time with Tsukiko. If she hadn't stupidly gone to his study to gloat instead of going straight to Xykon with what she knew, the whole gig would have been up right then and there. That would have blown everything up far more than V did.

You could also say that Tsukiko lucked out big time with the Monster dropping a hint on her while rambling about something else. Not that she went to the study to gloat: she was there to find the other half of the Ritual.
Further, Xykon hates nerd talk (with subschools and such), and shows no sign of understanding it all that well. Redcloak probably could have talked himself out of it (he's a smart guy, really good at nerd talk, and he has an ace up his sleeve: the divine half of the Ritual that only he knows).

For as dramatic as all that was, all V managed to accomplish was dropping Xykon's phylactery in the sewer. Xykon didn't care about anything else. It was, all in all, a very minor setback to him, but it was enough to get him to completely derail Redcloak's plans for Gobbotopia, forbid him from regenerating his eye, and refuse to take his advice in the desert. The very moment Xykon had any real reason to feel personally threatened he smacked Redcloak down hard, and Redcloak couldn't do anything but say "Yes, Sir".

In an open confrontation with Xykon there is little else one can do, you know, especially as long as one needs him alive and around. Still, the thing is, even the phylactery getting lost worked out fine for Redcloak: Xykon feels safer than ever, since he thinks his phylactery is safe on the Astral Plane, while Redcloak's been put to his place. Meanwhile, Redcloak took away his phylactery and removed the only person actually loyal to the Bony Bastard from the equation, so Xykon is a lot less safe than ever.

Edit: also, Gallowglass makes excellent points as well. (For the record: yes, I think he is right in stating that Redcloak is at least somewhat delusional and playing with fire.)

[bunsen_h]

Honestly when Xykon said, "The fuzzball found a trail!" I assumed that he was referring to Oona on the outside, but if there is an implication that Oona or Greyview "found" a trail on the inside of the dungeon then that would certainly be interesting.

That's a good point. Though something really big and nasty might be assumed to have immediately picked up and carried off the two Dwarves. "Quick! Jump ins-[erk!]"

[Coyote0715]

Surely 'loaded with bear' would be the most dangerous? Or does that only work when referring to druids?

That depends. If you GOT loaded with bear, surely he's a party animal and not dangerous at all. Just don't let him drive home.

[Snails]

Honestly when Xykon said, "The fuzzball found a trail!" I assumed that he was referring to Oona on the outside, but if there is an implication that Oona or Greyview "found" a trail on the inside of the dungeon then that would certainly be interesting.

Yes, I did not catch that the first time through.

It is ambiguous, but the way Xykon says it seems to indicate Oona found a trail inside. And that explains why Oona did not notice a lack of snowy dwarf boot prints indoors. Oona was expecting a trail and found one, and did not stop to think about whether the trail she found was exactly likely for the dwarves she was expecting -- it is an easy mental error to make, especially if Oona is good but not great at tracking.

[Anitar]

Surely 'loaded with bear' would be the most dangerous? Or does that only work when referring to druids?

What about when it's loaded by bear? What kind of ammunition can bears offer you?

[Snails]

That depends. If you GOT loaded with bear, surely he's a party animal and not dangerous at all. Just don't let him drive home.

Or smoke weed in the forest, without someone there to carefully snuff out any embers. Just one little forest fire, and the nice bear has to do years of community service telling people to not start forest fires.

[Goblin_Priest]

Except Meld Into Stone isn’t, as far as I understand it, bypassing or a shortcut, you literally just Meld Into Stone, you don’t see anything and then choose when you go out. It’s a hiding spell, not one to travel through walls.

While that's true, allowing for that would make denying the others like stone shape and stone to mud harder. Because preventing ethereal travel doesn't change a whole lot if you can still teleport (or equivalent conjuration spells), or just melt the stone away with various transmutation spells, or just divine through it with Scry or the like.

[IndigoFenix]

I doubt this is the correct door. The chance of randomly picking the correct door is very small, but a lot greater than a million to one, and therefore unlikely to be the case.

I do expect it to be one of the doors they didn't clear out, and that it will give them a clue that they were tricked. This might lead to them suspecting the MitD, but more importantly, it will make them start considering alternative search strategies besides picking doors one at a time. This might lead to them finding the Gate a lot faster.

[Arathorne]

Loaded with bear is definitely the most dangerous!

That sounds to me like a Fargo Flintlocke weapon

[Goblin_Priest]

I doubt this is the correct door. The chance of randomly picking the correct door is very small, but a lot greater than a million to one, and therefore unlikely to be the case.

I do expect it to be one of the doors they didn't clear out, and that it will give them a clue that they were tricked. This might lead to them suspecting the MitD, but more importantly, it will make them start considering alternative search strategies besides picking doors one at a time. This might lead to them finding the Gate a lot faster.

But where's the dramatic tension in that?

[Roland Itiative]

Greyview having found a trail inside the cave is interesting. Even if we assume that door was falsely marked (which is almost certain, from a narrative perspective), would the dungeon's inhabitants really leave trails to be found so close to the door? I think it's possible that our invisible paladin kidnappers may be responsible for those specific trails, and Durkon and Minrah's gambit will throw a wrench on basically everyone's plans.

[pendell]

But where's the dramatic tension in that?

I agree. There is no "probability" in this story, only the illusion thereof. Rich isn't rolling a die to see if they've wandered into just the right door -- the villains will find the right door when the plot demands it. They won't find it early and win before our heroes can do anything about it, nor will they wander around aimlessly until the heroes have succeeded in securing the site or destroying the villains.

This is just like the time Xykon lost his phylactery in the sewer. Again, it served as a Broken Bridge hindering the villains from accessing Girard's gate until the precise moment when our heroes would confront them. Neither so early as to win an easy victory against an undefended gate, nor so late as to port in when our heroes are long gone but the Vector Legion is confronting the emergent snarl. Again, precisely at the point plot demanded.

I suppose we could argue that it's a storytelling weakness when we're thinking on a meta-level rather than looking for in-story reasons, but OOTS has broken the fourth wall so many times it's hard for me not to think in those terms.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Aetius]

So the faction who believes the statue is the key to the Gate is now literally digging itself into a hole. I like it.

That was low.

The very moment Xykon had any real reason to feel personally threatened he smacked Redcloak down hard, and Redcloak couldn't do anything but say "Yes, Sir".

Xykon threatened to kill RC and put the crimson mantle on Jirix. He talked quite often about how he liked Jirix better.
Yet RC is still around.
Why?
Because Xykon was never mad enough to kill RC up until now?
Because he feels sympathy for a long time ally?
Doesn't sound like the guy who kills his own allies out of boredome or because their names are difficult to pronounce.

I guess just like RC he puts up with a lot, because he's not sure he can finish the plan without RC. And he invested too much in the plan to just abandon it on a whim.
Xykon knew RC was full of it when he explained why he snuffed Tsukiko. But he couldn't do anything but say "Okay, I get it". Or something along those lines.

Both of them are playing for the endgame. Xykon knows RC is the better strategist so he let's him take the lead in many situation. And RC knows Xykon can cause a lot of collateral damage when agitated, so he avoids to provoke him.
And like that they will continue back and forth till the endgame. And prepare contingency plans.

[KorvinStarmast]

It is perfectly believable that Oona is skilled enough to track in soft snow, but never progressed beyond that level because it just does not matter for his lifestyle.

I think that Auntie Oona is a she.

And from a longer answer by Metastachydium

Further, Xykon hates nerd talk (with subschools and such),

One of his few redeeming qualities. *ducks*

Meanwhile, Redcloak took away his phylactery and removed the only person actually loyal to the Bony Bastard from the equation, so Xykon is a lot less safe than ever.

And when he finds out, he'll be upset.

Redcloak is at least somewhat delusional and playing with fire.)

This, with extra frosting.

[BloodSquirrel]

None of those, except arguably the first one (which is the one I referred to) was a trap of any sort.

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Right-Eye's family was intimidated into working for him through sheer force, Dorukan

and Roy were killed through liberal application of magic wielded as a cudgel. Xykon is weirdly pragmatic and that makes him a resourceful opponent in tactical situations, but that has precious little to do with careful planning.

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Dorukan came out of his tower to fight Xykon because Xykon used Lirian as bait, and Dorukan underestimated what Xykon could do. In end, Xykon used a cudgel to finish him off, but there were a lot of other things that happened in that fight, too. Xykon was more prepared than Dorukan thought he'd be. Xykon killed Roy by abandoning his dragon and letting Roy fall to his death.

Technically pursuing the Plan and letting him consolidate Gobbotopia are things Xykon would have never done if he knew what Redcloak knows. So Redcloak fed him the right amount of information, did not correct his wrong assumptions and so on, and so forth. Xykon is still pursuing the Plan he has nothing to gain from, and Redcloak managed to consolidate Gobbotopia, so one of the ploys worked and the other is yet to fail.

Consolidating Gobbotopia was never something that Xykon didn't want to do. You're forgetting here that Redcloak was the one for whom "getting on with the plan" was of ultimate importance. For Xykon, it's just a lark. If the plan stalls for a little while, it stalls. Xykon didn't have a particularly strong desire to move on until suddenly he did, which is exactly when they moved on. And the only bit of "feeding him the right information" Redcloak really did was not telling him that he didn't expect O-Chul's interrogation to pan out.

Hell, re-read this strip. Redcloak is talking about how important it is to get information on the next gate, and Xykon is more interested in using O-Chul as entertainment. Xykon's urgency to leave Gobbotopia was non-existent until he got pissed off.

Like I said, the only reason why Xykon got a reason to get serious before planned was something Redcloak could neither foresee, nor prevent (i.e. Darh!V penetrating the impenetrable Cloister).

You could also say that Tsukiko lucked out big time with the Monster dropping a hint on her while rambling about something else. Not that she went to the study to gloat: she was there to find the other half of the Ritual.

A plan that relies on nothing unexpected ever happening or your opponents never getting a bit of good luck is a really lousy plan. And you're also flat-out wrong here- Redcloak did foresee somebody trying to teleport in to kill them, which is why they had wards in place. A thousand different things could have happened. That's what contingency plans are for- you don't try to plan for every single thing that the enemy can throw at you, you just put some basic redundancies in place so that you cover as many different kinds of failure as possible.

EDIT: The current circumstance is an excellent example. If Xykon figures out that they've been betray he might just get pissed off enough to vent in Redcloak's direction. The specific circumstances may not have been predictable, but that doesn't matter- this kind of thing is going to happen sooner or later and if Redcloak's control over Xykon is so fragile that it can be broken the moment an unforeseen challenge comes up then it was never worth calling "control" in the first place.

Further, Xykon hates nerd talk (with subschools and such), and shows no sign of understanding it all that well. Redcloak probably could have talked himself out of it (he's a smart guy, really good at nerd talk, and he has an ace up his sleeve: the divine half of the Ritual that only he knows).

Xykon knew better than to give Redcloak the chance to try to talk himself out of it. He knew he wouldn't be able to verify whatever Redcloak told him, and that pressing him on it would just reveal to Redcloak what Xykon did or did not know.

In an open confrontation with Xykon there is little else one can do, you know, especially as long as one needs him alive and around.

Again, you are not making a good case for Redcloak here. If he was anything like in subtle control of Xykon he wouldn't have to rely on openly confronting him. The friggin' MitD understands this better than Redcloak does. He did a better job in the desert of figuring out which of Xykon's buttons he had to press to get him to agree. He doesn't try to argue with Xykon directly. He knows when to play dumb.

Still, the thing is, even the phylactery getting lost worked out fine for Redcloak: Xykon feels safer than ever, since he thinks his phylactery is safe on the Astral Plane, while Redcloak's been put to his place. Meanwhile, Redcloak took away his phylactery and removed the only person actually loyal to the Bony Bastard from the equation, so Xykon is a lot less safe than ever.

Xykon feeling safer than ever is a hell of an assumption. Xykon has demonstrated rather conclusively that he does not trust Redcloak as much as he used to. He didn't listen to Redcloak's advice in the desert, and he didn't listen to him in the lastest strip.

And, after all this, Redcloak still doesn't have any leverage on Xykon that he can actually use if Xykon decides to ditch the plan. Having his phylactery is of strictly limited usefulness- it'll let him kill Xykon if his body is destroyed, but if he does that the plan is kaput. If he tries to blackmain Xykon then Xykon can just kill him, trap his soul, and go on a goblin rampage until Redcloak tells him where it is. Redcloak is still 100% reliant on Xykon thinking that the ritual will put the gate under his control, with zero room for anything going wrong.

Your assessment of Redcloak's position is wildly optimistic.

[Petrocorus]

I really don't think RC and X could keep working together if Xykon is destroyed and discover RC lied about the phylactery.
Even if Xykon still believe in the Plan, he will not let this go. That would push him to finally kill RC and put the Cloak on another goblin.
And RC would expect this.

The world isn't ready for the kind of food we'd make if no-one was watching us.

Well.. i did try to educate some non-French people on proper cheese eating, not to avail.
I guess not everyone is ready for this degree of civilisation.

What about when it's loaded by bear? What kind of ammunition can bears offer you?

This reminds me of a russian pseudo-super-hero movie with a werebear bearing a automated gatling gun turret. Quite impressive.

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[Verdruss]

After all the good points that have already been made, I'd like to add one:

What happens to a dungeon full of monsters when you leave the door open? There are now a lot of open doors with potentially a lot of monsters behind them.

[Worldsong]

I prefer to characterize his behavior as spontaneous, rather like his spell-casting.
Impulsive, even.

Damn you and your well-thought-out puns. You know I can't resist those.

(For the record: yes, I think he is right in stating that Redcloak is at least somewhat delusional and playing with fire.)

Redcloak definitely does not have as much control as he thinks he has, but there's a very big and very important difference between "Less control than imagined" and "No control at all."

I think I've said it before, but while Xykon is going to end up on top I highly doubt it's going to be a case of "I outplayed you on every level."

That was low.

You can't get much lower than in a hole.
Yes I am the worst type of person.