OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

[Frogwarrior]

So raise your hand if you think they just accidentally led them to the right door by a horrible accident.

I'm thinking no.........

I'm thinking Team Cleric led them to a door that MitD marked "X" even though it wasn't cleared..... so they're about to find a bunch of monsters in a tunnel they thought they cleared........ so there's about to be a lot more suspicion and distrust on Team Evil.

[BloodSquirrel]

Xykon threatened to kill RC and put the crimson mantle on Jirix. He talked quite often about how he liked Jirix better.
Yet RC is still around.
Why?

Because he has more leverage over Redcloak than he would anybody else. He knows that Redcloak will try to complete the plan at any cost, he knows how indispensable he is to Redcloak's plan, and- most important of all- he knows what kinds of things Redcloak will do to try to manipulate him. Jirix, by contrast, might just decide that blowing up the world isn't worth it and stab Xykon in the back as soon as a powerful enough enemy shows up. Or sabotage the ritual. Or just realize that having Xykon in control of the gate is a terrible idea and bail along with the mantle.

Xykon knew RC was full of it when he explained why he snuffed Tsukiko. But he couldn't do anything but say "Okay, I get it". Or something along those lines.

There were other things he could have done. He could have called bull**** and demand to know what Readcloak was hiding. He could have smoked Redcloak right then and there and given the mantle to Jirix, as above. Both would be perfectly in-character for an impulsive, murderous lich dealing with an unfaithful minion. He chose to do something more subtle instead.

[Fyraltari]

Well.. i did try to educate some non-French people on proper cheese eating, not to avail.
I guess not everyone is ready for this degree of civilisation.

That reminds me of that XKCD comic
that explored the consequences of various non-spherical models of the Earth being correct. The Ancient Greek one where the only land masses are Europe, Africa and Libya had « it’s very hard to buy American cheese » as a con for some reason.

After all the good points that have already been made, I'd like to add one:

What happens to a dungeon full of monsters when you leave the door open? There are now a lot of open doors with potentially a lot of monsters behind them.

They ask people to close the door before the cold gets in.

These monsters can give Team Evil a run for its money, you think wooden doors would stop them if they felt like going out?

[Worldsong]

They ask people to close the door before the cold gets in.

These monsters can give Team Evil a run for its money, you think wooden doors would stop them if they felt like going out?

Maybe they're not just wooden doors: maybe they're mahogany.

[BloodSquirrel]

I think I've said it before, but while Xykon is going to end up on top I highly doubt it's going to be a case of "I outplayed you on every level."

It's not like there are a whole lot of levels he has to outplay Redcloak on. If he finds out that the ritual doesn't give him control of the gate, then the whole plan is meaningless, so he doesn't need Redcloak's cooperation anymore. He doesn't need any kind of special plan to kill Redcloak; he's powerful enough to straight-up smoke him whenever he wants, and Redcloak still doesn't have anything we know about that can even the odds. The only thing that could possible stop Xykon from killing Redcloak on the spot is the location of his Phylactery, and there's only so much that Redcloak can do with that.

There's basically two pieces of information that, if Xykon gets his hands on either one, is game over for Redcloak. Xykon's sledgehammer can take care of the rest.

[Worldsong]

It's not like there are a whole lot of levels he has to outplay Redcloak on. If he finds out that the ritual doesn't give him control of the gate, then the whole plan is meaningless, so he doesn't need Redcloak's cooperation anymore. He doesn't need any kind of special plan to kill Redcloak; he's powerful enough to straight-up smoke him whenever he wants, and Redcloak still doesn't have anything we know about that can even the odds. The only thing that could possible stop Xykon from killing Redcloak on the spot is the location of his Phylactery, and there's only so much that Redcloak can do with that.

There's basically two pieces of information that, if Xykon gets his hands on either one, is game over for Redcloak. Xykon's sledgehammer can take care of the rest.

Yes, so the game is for Redcloak to keep Xykon from figuring either of those things out before it's too late.

Actually, not even then. Redcloak doesn't automatically die the moment Xykon realizes Redcloak tricked him on either front: it just means the alliance is over and Redcloak has to stay out of Xykon's reach.

In which case the key factor which could result in Xykon's permanent defeat would be Redcloak having swapped the phylactery and destroying it before Xykon can retrieve it.

[Fyraltari]

Maybe they're not just wooden doors: maybe they're mahogany.

I don’t get it.

[Worldsong]

I don’t get it.

Sorry, it's a reference to Dragon Ball Z Abridged.

[BloodSquirrel]

Actually, not even then. Redcloak doesn't automatically die the moment Xykon realizes Redcloak tricked him on either front: it just means the alliance is over and Redcloak has to stay out of Xykon's reach.

That's still game over for Redcloak, though. He's never going to get another chance at the plan, and the plan is literally everything to him. There's no way he's just going to give up and skip town. He'll delude himself into thinking that he still has control over the situation until he wakes up in front of TDO.

[CriticalFailure]

I like how this time it was the lawful one who figured out the shell game.

I like how Redcloak is clearly lawful without being a 2d lawful stereotype. You can be a lawful devious conniving bastard!

[Worldsong]

That's still game over for Redcloak, though. He's never going to get another chance at the plan, and the plan is literally everything to him. There's no way he's just going to give up and skip town. He'll delude himself into thinking that he still has control over the situation until he wakes up in front of TDO.

I automatically disagree with any position which is based on the assumption that Redcloak is physically incapable of accepting that the Plan is a bust.

Xykon turning on him would do the trick.

[Verdruss]

These monsters can give Team Evil a run for its money, you think wooden doors would stop them if they felt like going out?

Sometimes it's just the light at the end of the tunnel that motivates movement.

[enh]

Second panel: isn't the phrase "loaded for bear"?

Third panel: foray is spelled with one 'r'

[Fyraltari]

Sorry, it's a reference to Dragon Ball Z Abridged.

I must have forgotten it, then. Probably because I didn’t get it then either.

Sometimes it's just the light at the end of the tunnel that motivates movement.

But the bugbears have come and gone for years so they’d have already seen the light.

[understatement]

That's still game over for Redcloak, though. He's never going to get another chance at the plan, and the plan is literally everything to him. There's no way he's just going to give up and skip town. He'll delude himself into thinking that he still has control over the situation until he wakes up in front of TDO.

I don't really agree with this, but the mental image did make me laugh. "I swear, I'm still working on the Plan!" "Dude, you've been dead, like, ten hours ago."

I like how Redcloak is clearly lawful without being a 2d lawful stereotype. You can be a lawful devious conniving bastard!

Actually, apart from Xykon, most of the major villains in OOTS are lawful. Redcloak, Tarquin, Malack, Kubota, Durkula, Gontor, the Dark One, presumably Nale...

[Worldsong]

I must have forgotten it, then. Probably because I didn’t get it then either.

It was during the Saiyan Arc. King Yemma was going on about how his desk was made out of mahogany.

That said it was a rather minor joke.

[Quizatzhaderac]

That reminds me of that XKCD comic
that explored the consequences of various non-spherical models of the Earth being correct. The Ancient Greek one where the only land masses are Europe, Africa and Libya had « it’s very hard to buy American cheese » as a con for some reason.

It's an SMBC comic.

Also, I'm surprised you even consider American "cheese" to be cheese. A lot of it isn't technically cheese by the American definition, and I doubt any of it qualifies under the French definition.

[Fyraltari]

It's an SMBC comic.

Silly me.

Also, I'm surprised you even consider American "cheese" to be cheese. A lot of it isn't technically cheese by the American definition

I’m afraid to ask.

and I doubt any of it qualifies under the French definition.

Look we’ve got over a thousand different types so I’d say that if it came out of a mamal, is somewhat solid and can be used to murder an Englishman, it’s got a decent shot of qualifying.

[KorvinStarmast]

Second panel: isn't the phrase "loaded for bear"?

Third panel: foray is spelled with one 'r'

You are correct, since you did not overthink this.
Whether or not Rich chooses to fix either one is an open question.

[pendell]

It's an SMBC comic.

Also, I'm surprised you even consider American "cheese" to be cheese. A lot of it isn't technically cheese by the American definition, and I doubt any of it qualifies under the French definition.

Well, American Bread isn't bread . It's cake, at least according to the Supreme Court of Ireland.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Riftwolf]

What about when it's loaded by bear? What kind of ammunition can bears offer you?

Think there's a regiment of the Polish Army that can truthfully claim to be loaded by bear.
As for loaded with bear, I was imagining some sort of ballista, maybe a cannon, that fired bears at your enemies. Sort of like the Naga-bomb I had in my first ever game (Baleful Polymorph+Jar with Break Enchantment as a trigger)

[Riftwolf]

Look we’ve got over a thousand different types so I’d say that if it came out of a mamal, is somewhat solid and can be used to murder an Englishman, it’s got a decent shot of qualifying.

By that logic I'm cheese.

[Petrocorus]

Look we’ve got over a thousand different types so I’d say that if it came out of a mamal, is somewhat solid and can be used to murder an Englishman, it’s got a decent shot of qualifying.

Wait..what?

I thought we were on killing them by replacing their -ing tea with proper coffee.

Using cheese to kill an Englishman sound like a waste of a perfectly serviceable cheese to me.

[Kittenwolf]

$10 says that they just led Team Evil into a dungeon that they haven't cleared before, giving away the entire fake shell game and letting them know they're being messed with.

[bunsen_h]

They ask people to close the door before the cold gets in.

I'm reminded of ventriloquist and puppeteer Señor Wences. "Close the door!"

[Dion]

Has anyone commented on what an awesome pun the title is? Ha ha! Lightning bolt! Ground! Great stuff.

[KorvinStarmast]

Well, American Bread isn't bread . It's cake, at least according to the Supreme Court of Ireland.

That's not quite true, since the bread in question is the creation of the company called Subway. Not sure how well you keep up on current events. The last time I checked, this place we call America is not short hand for The United States of Subway, however much that company may wish that it were so.

[Fincher]

$10 says that they just led Team Evil into a dungeon that they haven't cleared before, giving away the entire fake shell game and letting them know they're being messed with.

They should Wall of Stone the entrance and run away.

[KorvinStarmast]

They should Wall of Stone the entrance and run away.

The amount of effort it takes either Redcloak or Xykon to dispel/dismantle said wall: minimal.
I am pretty sure that Greyview could knock it all down in a few rounds. Even quicker with Oona's help.

Buy not a wholly bad plan, tactically, if one is trying to increase the distance between selves and Team Evil.

[Fincher]

The amount of effort it takes either Redcloak or Xykon to dispel/dismantle said wall: minimal.
I am pretty sure that Greyview could knock it all down in a few rounds. Even quicker with Oona's help.

Buy not a wholly bad plan, tactically, if one is trying to increase the distance between selves and Team Evil.

Well, if they run into some monsters and don't see the dwarves, that's going to suggest the dwarves didn't actually go in there like Redcloak suspected. Combine that with how there shouldn't even be monsters in there, and they'll probably want to turn around and go back out. So if they make the wall before running, worst case scenario it doesn't buy them much time, best case it prevents Team Evil from easily fleeing from monsters to chase after them, or gets Xykon to expend a spell slot.

Another possibility is that the Order might show up and they might all ambush them, but I'm just thinking in terms of what Durkon and Minrah can do by themselves.