OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

[Alcore]

though I am also of the belief that he doesn't know the whole story. He gave that half to her to figure out. She apparently succeeded as she (in my mind) ran off without reporting the inconsistency. So he knows there is some mystery or oddity or something so important that it drove her to Redcloak's study and he killed her.


I think his commitment to the Plan might be less now than before.

[Adun]

Don't know if already noticed, but Xykon goes from skullcracked in panel 3 to completely healed in panel 4. Does he have regeneration?

[HeroErix]

This reminds me of a russian pseudo-super-hero movie with a werebear bearing a automated gatling gun turret. Quite impressive.

That would be loaded as bear.

By that logic I'm cheese.

Do you disagree?

I don't mind how Kraft Singles taste. Spicy cheeses like pepper jack and smoked cheese are what I don't like.

I don't think I could make it in this world without pepper jack.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hmmm, cheese.

For the French, I find that Reblochon is better than Brie.
For Italian: go into the Abruzzi region and get their sharp/picante Provolone in a big ball. Way better than store bought.
In America I'm a fan of Tilamook Extra Sharp Cheddar.
Norwegian Jarlsberg is a lot like Swiss cheese, and I've grown fond of it.
Edam and Gouda: good with wine and crackers, yes.
There's some stuff from (IIRC) Ireland that we get in big blocks at Sam's, Kerrygold, that I've become quite fond of.

Those Kraft singles: I can't eat them the any more.

Monterey Jack: I used to like a slice of that on my apple pie, slightly warmed, but my taste buds have changed a bit and the Jack cheeses no mi piace these days.

But the King of cheese? The Royalty?
Mozzarella di buffala, as made in Mondragone, Italy. (Campania regione)

There is nothing like quite it.

[danielxcutter]

Don't know if already noticed, but Xykon goes from skullcracked in panel 3 to completely healed in panel 4. Does he have regeneration?

Pretty sure Regeneration is only for living creatures. Some undead do have Fast Healing, but Liches aren’t one of them.

[Shining Wrath]

'e'd agree
Means "he would agree" right?

Also, I am the only impressed that two dwarves walking disturbs the rock enough for Oona to recognize tracks and correctly attribute them to their respective owners but magically shifting the rock around their bodies doesn't even leave ebough a disturbance to warrant a "that's odd".

Also, also, I assume the spell takes care of their breathing.

Also, also, also, if this is door marked by the MitD then Team Evil is going to figure out that Redcloak was right when they stumble into the first monster rather than clear the whole thing.

The purpose of the Meld Into Stone spell is to allow the caster to hide. The magic is designed to leave no trace of it being cast. And while they are in there, they can heal and buff themselves.

[harami2000]

Honestly when Xykon said, "The fuzzball found a trail!" I assumed that he was referring to Oona on the outside, but if there is an implication that Oona or Greyview "found" a trail on the inside of the dungeon then that would certainly be interesting.

For some reason I automatically read "fuzzball" to mean Greyview without a second thought... What else would you call a red-eyed 300+ pound worg?

(Just so long as Xykon doesn't give him a bony scritch under the chin and call him a "bad boy" )

[Quizatzhaderac]

Why are you* like this.

In the 19th century processed foods were for rich people. When they became accessible to the general public it became a fad that got carried away. In the middle of the 20th century (great depression and a war fought on two other continents) there were a number of major logistical problems with feeding everyone that heavily processed food could solve. These long periods made processed food seem normal to us.

Listen, why do you* talk to me about american cheese if it's not american cheese.

"American cheese" is not a term for any type of cheese made in America, it's a term for a variant of Cheddar that was one of America's first exports. We make a wide variety of cheeses, many of which we haven't significantly changed from how the variety was originally made in Europe (hence American made "Swiss" cheese).

Also how does that make sense.

We make sense from a mixture of high-fructose corn syrup, whey protein concentrate, sorghum powder, sodium citrate, calcium phosphate, carrageenan, iodized salt, eye of newt, riboflavin, purple dye #8300823, and traces of peanuts.

[Fyraltari]

In the 19th century processed foods were for rich people. When they became accessible to the general public it became a fad that got carried away. In the middle of the 20th century (great depression and a war fought on two other continents) there were a number of major logistical problems with feeding everyone that heavily processed food could solve. These long periods made processed food seem normal to us.

These things did not only happen in the United states of America, though.

"American cheese" is not a term for any type of cheese made in America, it's a term for a variant of Cheddar that was one of America's first exports. We make a wide variety of cheeses, many of which we haven't significantly changed from how the variety was originally made in Europe (hence American made "Swiss" cheese).

We make sense from a mixture of high-fructose corn syrup, whey protein concentrate, sorghum powder, sodium citrate, calcium phosphate, carrageenan, iodized salt, eye of newt, riboflavin, purple dye #8300823, and traces of peanuts.

Peanuts? How dare you!

[Alesso]

I doubt this is the correct door. The chance of randomly picking the correct door is very small, but a lot greater than a million to one, and therefore unlikely to be the case.

The most metashellgame-satisfying solution for me would be the gate being behind every door, just in the way nobody expects. E.g. permanent Wall of Good with mundane disguise in the entry corridor, or getting resurrected in the gate room after one dies fighting undead monster.

[bunsen_h]

Also notably the definitions of "cake" is so broad that adding uranium ore to bread would make it cake,

Heh. I spent several years working on uranium mine waste, and am amused by references to the "yellow cake" food product.

Pretty sure Regeneration is only for living creatures. Some undead do have Fast Healing, but Liches aren’t one of them.

We know that Xykon spends periods of time away without telling his top people what he's doing. He might be working on magic items, such as regeneration or automatic healing that work on him.

[Quizatzhaderac]

These things did not only happen in the United states of America, though.

Fair point. I can only wildly speculate to further explain it.

Out of curiosity, are the ingredients of your food more like western Europe or more like the nearby parts of South America?

Peanuts? How dare you!

Well, we haven't intentionally used a peanut to make an intangible since the Carter administration, but we just never seem to run out of traces of peanuts.

Actually, I think we've found more traces of peanuts by weight then we ever grew peanuts....

[understatement]

though I am also of the belief that he doesn't know the whole story. He gave that half to her to figure out. She apparently succeeded as she (in my mind) ran off without reporting the inconsistency. So he knows there is some mystery or oddity or something so important that it drove her to Redcloak's study and he killed her.


I think his commitment to the Plan might be less now than before.

Regarding Tsukiko's whole study debacle:

Xykon is suspicious of his arcane half. He doesn't want Redcloak to know he's suspicious (because of the don't care/don't know thing he's got going), so he asks Tsukiko - who he knows can understand arcane and divine magic very well - to analyze it. Somehow he doesn't tell Tsukiko there's a divine half, but Tsukiko figures it out through the MiTD. She goes into Redcloak's study to verify it, when Redcloak comes back from the Resistance stuff. Tsukiko tells RC that Xykon gave it to her. Redcloak "verifies" it for her and kills her. He tells Xykon he killed her, and specifically asks how she got the arcane half in the first place. Judging by Xykon's pause, he knows that Redcloak knows that Xykon was suspicious of him via Tsukiko, and so Xykon lies. Jirix then comes in spouting whatever to end the conversation.

I would say Xykon still has the upper hand, because he's just that much powerful, but to say he's a master planner is...a very generous description. Certainly Redcloak is over his head in this, but - ironically - Xykon is just as committed to the Plan; he died for it, and he's willing to actually pay it attention.

[Fyraltari]

Fair point. I can only wildly speculate to further explain it.

Out of curiosity, are the ingredients of your food more like Western Europe

I think this question is for Petrocorus? Because I live in Western Europe.

[Rogar Demonblud]

We know he's complained on screen about only being able to spend 8 hours a day making magic items.

Aaaand now I have a plot in my head where the PCs find out all the cursed items in the campaign are the product of a bored lich.

[KorvinStarmast]

Aaaand now I have a plot in my head where the PCs find out all the cursed items in the campaign are the product of a bored lich.

Duly stolen.
One of my PCs still is not aware that her amulet that gives here adv on one ability check per day is cursed ... (Ghosts of Salt Marsh item found).
I may, however, port your idea over from "bored lich" to "Iuz" as the one who makes cursed items to cause untold misery to mortals who value magic items highly.

Need to go back and see what I have in my notes regarding that nasty old demigod/powerful evil personage ...

[Petrocorus]

It’s traditional, okay!?

Well... I don't like to waste my cheese.
I don't like to share my cheese with people who won't appreciate it.

Thankfully, a well done Camembert can get the Englishman to have heart attack without even touching it.

You've got something that'll top ortolan?

How do you know about this?

It is disgusting and I wish I could go an entire Christmas/New Year’s Eve season without being offered any.

Do you speak about foie gras or about mousse de foie gras.
I always found the former to be much better than the latter.

Do we have any solid indication on Minrah's alignment? I'm a little befuddled by the assertions that the double-bluff was thought up by one of the lawful members of the party, because in my head she seems more like a neutral.

As she's a cleric of Thor, i assume she's LG or NG.

[KorvinStarmast]

How do you know about this?..

Anthony Bourdain mentioned this in one of his books. That's how I know about it, but I've never been interested in having one myself.

As she's a cleric of Thor, i assume she's LG or NG.

That's my bet as well.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given Thor seems to be CG (only cares about rules to the extent of keeping the Snarl locked down), she should be NG, CG or CN. And no, I have no idea how LG-bordering-on-LN Durkon can be a cleric of Thor.

[hamishspence]

There's a certain amount of precedent for "gods allowing their clerics to break the one-step rule". I could see Thor being "patron of dwarves" for his giving them advice about how to act honourably and thus avoid Hel - and so, having a specific exemption to the one-step rule in this case.

[Metastachydium]

I am more of the belief he knew exactly why she was in Red's study. But X. could also believe that Pigtails would also do (or at least imagine) all the things that Red spoke of. The Plan requires two caster both with 9th level spells. At the time Pigtails was already dead and X knows Red and he ain't getting her back without wish.

I feel X. conceded the battle to Red as there was nothing to gain with a fight with Red; Pigtails did not get the other half (I can't image how much or little hope X. had of it written down at all) and was dead. It was either scrap the Plan or admit defeat. Red even phrased it in such a way that he could say face by denying the whole thing.

though I am also of the belief that he doesn't know the whole story. He gave that half to her to figure out. She apparently succeeded as she (in my mind) ran off without reporting the inconsistency. So he knows there is some mystery or oddity or something so important that it drove her to Redcloak's study and he killed her.


I think his commitment to the Plan might be less now than before.

Regarding Tsukiko's whole study debacle:

Xykon is suspicious of his arcane half. He doesn't want Redcloak to know he's suspicious (because of the don't care/don't know thing he's got going), so he asks Tsukiko - who he knows can understand arcane and divine magic very well - to analyze it. Somehow he doesn't tell Tsukiko there's a divine half, but Tsukiko figures it out through the MiTD. She goes into Redcloak's study to verify it, when Redcloak comes back from the Resistance stuff. Tsukiko tells RC that Xykon gave it to her. Redcloak "verifies" it for her and kills her. He tells Xykon he killed her, and specifically asks how she got the arcane half in the first place. Judging by Xykon's pause, he knows that Redcloak knows that Xykon was suspicious of him via Tsukiko, and so Xykon lies. Jirix then comes in spouting whatever to end the conversation.

I would say Xykon still has the upper hand, because he's just that much powerful, but to say he's a master planner is...a very generous description. Certainly Redcloak is over his head in this, but - ironically - Xykon is just as committed to the Plan; he died for it, and he's willing to actually pay it attention.

All fine and interesting points, folks.
As far as X.'s commitment to the Plan is concerned, I'm with understatement for much the same reasons. While this happened well before the Tsukiko-affair (not that kind of affair!), how he went out of his way to save Redcloak and make sure he is healed after the throne room fight and what he told Red about the Plan immediately afterwards („all I care about is the MacGuffin”), speaking in first person plural about ruling the world during the whole conversation is telling. While he trusts Redcloak less at this point (which is balanced out somewhat by the fact that he does not need him to be quite as much of a trusty lackey anymore now that (as far as X. knows) he does not carry the phylactery), it would appear that if nothing else, he'd like to play this game to its end nnow that he invested a good third of his active life into it.
As for the thing with Tsukiko, I'd also consider the possibility that X. was(/is) indeed suspicious, but (with some „help” from Redcloak and Jirix) he might have realized that giving the arcane half to Tsukiko was a really dumb idea that he did not properly think through and he is better off with only one right-hand person he should not trust after all.

[Petrocorus]

Hmmm, cheese.

For the French, I find that Reblochon is better than Brie.
For Italian: go into the Abruzzi region and get their sharp/picante Provolone in a big ball. Way better than store bought.
In America I'm a fan of Tilamook Extra Sharp Cheddar.
Norwegian Jarlsberg is a lot like Swiss cheese, and I've grown fond of it.
Edam and Gouda: good with wine and crackers, yes.
There's some stuff from (IIRC) Ireland that we get in big blocks at Sam's, Kerrygold, that I've become quite fond of.

Those Kraft singles: I can't eat them the any more.

Monterey Jack: I used to like a slice of that on my apple pie, slightly warmed, but my taste buds have changed a bit and the Jack cheeses no mi piace these days.

But the King of cheese? The Royalty?
Mozzarella di buffala, as made in Mondragone, Italy. (Campania regione)

There is nothing like quite it.

I see you're a man of wealth and taste.
Though you don't seem to care for blue cheeses like Roquefort.

I think this question is for Petrocorus? Because I live in Western Europe.

So do i, culturally.
I'm French and i eat French most of the time, or Italian. As do most of the people here.

Each community as it's own culinary tradition, obviously, but many are influenced by the French one.
The Haitian and Créole seem like divergent French traditions, with some African influence and adaptation to the environment.
The Haitians are big on fish, chicken, goat, and quarry meat.
The Créoles are French and are mostly French culinary, with some original meals (one or two of them are really weird), and the same emphasis on fish, chicken, and quarry meat that the Haitian.
The Dominicans and the Brazilians eat what you can expect. The Brazilians are notably obsessed with their feijões and their farinha, i.e red beans and cassava flour. Those are the thing i don't look forward to when i'm in Brazil.
The Maroons have some specific traditions given they remained half-isolated in the jungle for like 2 centuries. I don't know a lot about them.
All of them have a big emphasis on rice.

I don't know many amerindians, so i don't know about them.

The Chineses eat chinese. The Hmong food seem close to chinese to me.
I don't know what the surinamieses eat.

Anthony Bourdain mentioned this in one of his books. That's how I know about it, but I've never been interested in having one myself.
That's my bet as well.

Most French are not.
Heck... a good proportion of French don't know about it.

Given Thor seems to be CG (only cares about rules to the extent of keeping the Snarl locked down), she should be NG, CG or CN. And no, I have no idea how LG-bordering-on-LN Durkon can be a cleric of Thor.

OotS Thor rather strike me as NG.
He's quite lax on rules, but i really don't think he's as lax on honor and morality.

[Fyraltari]

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Xykon’s main motivation for sticking to the Plan for so long was to keep Redcloak around as his personal punching-ball.

I see you're a man of wealth and taste.
Though you don't seem to care for blue cheeses like Roquefort.


So do i, culturally.
I'm French and i eat French most of the time. As do most of the people here.

Each community as it's own culinary tradition, obviously, but many are influenced by the French one.
The Haitian and Créole seem like divergent French traditions, with some African influence and adaptation to the environment.
The Haitians are big on fish, chicken, goat, and quarry meat.
The Créoles are French and are mostly French culinary, with some original meals (one or two of them are really weird), and the same emphasis on fish, chicken, and quarry meat that the Haitian.
The Dominicans and the Brazilians eat what you can expect. The Brazilians are notably obsessed with their feijões and their farinha, i.e red beans and cassava flour. Those are the thing i don't look forward to when i'm in Brazil.
The Maroons have some specific traditions given they remained half-isolated in the jungle for like 2 centuries. I don't know a lot about them.
All of them have a big emphasis on rice.

I don't know many amerindians, so i don't know about them.

The Chineses eat chinese. The Hmong food seem close to chinese to me.
I don't know what the surinamieses eat.


Most French are not.
Heck... a good proportion of French don't know about it..

Great I just ate and now I’m hungry again.

[Petrocorus]

Great I just ate and now I’m hungry again.

Bite me.
I'm on a diet and i had to cut down my cheese intake. And my pizza intake. And my meat intake. And my chocolate intake.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Did you have to give up coffee too? Because if so, what would be the point of living anymore?

[Ginasius]

Xykon's greatest tactical advantage is his great magic power, and he knows it. That's why he rarely bothers with complex plans, because in his experience most of his problems can be solved by applying ridicolous amounts of violence.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth with a Meteor Swarm"

Mike Xykon.

[Emmit Svenson]

You can still cast while "melded into stone". Maybe Wind Walk and they're outta there and back to the team without being discovered? Tricky thing is you can't see or hear anything while melded.

You can cast on *yourself*. Even if Durkon has the spell prepared twice, he couldn't include Minrah in the casting. But if he hasn't dismissed it, it's probably still active, so in 5 rounds they can go misty again.

You can hear while melded into stone. Good thing too, or they'd have to guess when it was safe to emerge, and unless they guessed the same, they might emerge at very different times.

Unless the dungeon tunnels are *really* generic, Team Evil should realize whether they've been in this one before by the time they reach the first room. On the other hand, it would make a pretty funny meta joke if they couldn't tell one generically drawn dungeon from another.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I imagine the lack of Meteor Swarm blast marks will be something of a giveaway.

[pendell]

Bite me.
I'm on a diet and i had to cut down my cheese intake.

But you can still kill an Englishman with it, right?

My own pet theory is that the Hundred Years War was actually resolved with a Food Wars Style shokugeki/cook-off. Anyone who's had English cooking and French cooking wouldn't even have to guess the winner. I suppose the French won, but , faced with the reality of having to eat English cooking if they took the island off the cost of France, decided it would be best if they went their separate ways.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[Fyraltari]

Bite me.

Sorry, not a cannibal.