OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

[KorvinStarmast]

And my chocolate intake.

Horrors!

I see you're a man of wealth and taste.

And I am a long time Rolling Stones fan.

Though you don't seem to care for blue cheeses like Roquefort.

My wife loves them, my mom loves them, for me they are a 'now and again' but not a top 10.

Did you have to give up coffee too? Because if so, what would be the point of living anymore?

Not as far as I can tell. My brother, the tea drinker, differs with me on this.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth with a Meteor Swarm" Mike Xykon.

That's a fine quote mangling, right there. +1 (My boxing career was short and undistinguished).

[Quizatzhaderac]

There's a certain amount of precedent for "gods allowing their clerics to break the one-step rule". I could see Thor being "patron of dwarves" for his giving them advice about how to act honourably and thus avoid Hel - and so, having a specific exemption to the one-step rule in this case.

Maybe Thor (being chaotic) doesn't care about the one-step rule?

I'm French and i eat French most of the time, or Italian. As do most of the people here.

Yeah, so my wild speculation for Fyraltari was going to include some-thing some-thing strong french culinary traditions some-thing some-thing American is a nation of immigrants.

But then I though, wait, French Guiana is (presumably) also a province of migrants, I should check that. But we don't have a group of people that think of themselves as English (English decent is a minority even with the subgroup of people of northern European decent, and a lot of people of British decent came to America on hostile terms with the English government).

My own pet theory is that the Hundred Years War was actually resolved with a Food Wars Style shokugeki/cook-off. Anyone who's had English cooking and French cooking wouldn't even have to guess the winner. I suppose the French won, but , faced with the reality of having to eat English cooking if they took the island off the cost of France, decided it would be best if they went their separate ways.

That would explain why they put a fifteen year old girl in charge.

[KorvinStarmast]

That would explain why they put a fifteen year old girl in charge.

I thought that she got fired.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, so my wild speculation for Fyraltari was going to include some-thing some-thing strong french culinary traditions some-thing some-thing American is a nation of immigrants.

I am not sure I understand, what speculation?

[Lord Raziere]

OK, new (very unlikely so don't beat me too hard) possible plot twist.

Durkon and Minrah are now directly above the dungeon with the Gate, and will be able to hear ... something ... happening below them.
The Gate is not reached through one of the doors. It's reached by using Stone Shape or similar to simply move the stone aside and create an opening. In Kragor's Dungeon, you must be strong enough to remove tons of stone to reach the Gate.

.....that might actually be really effective. sure Redcloak could probably summon an elemental to move the stone aside or stone shape it, but they'd have to figure out where the rift is among the stone first. after all, why even even design the gate to be something you can just walk up to? that is just leaving it wide open, especially in a place full of really strong monsters that could destroy it.

[Shining Wrath]

.....that might actually be really effective. sure Redcloak could probably summon an elemental to move the stone aside or stone shape it, but they'd have to figure out where the rift is among the stone first. after all, why even even design the gate to be something you can just walk up to? that is just leaving it wide open, especially in a place full of really strong monsters that could destroy it.

So rather than the 1 in a 1000 chance that Durkon and Minrah led Team Evil to the right door, I go with the 1 in 10,000 chance that they sank into the ground at exactly the right spot

[bunsen_h]

So rather than the 1 in a 1000 chance that Durkon and Minrah led Team Evil to the right door, I go with the 1 in 10,000 chance that they sank into the ground at exactly the right spot

While I think that the scenario is unlikely, there's one aspect that's worth examining. The dungeon is supposed to be beaten by strength, as a monument to Kraagor. It would make sense for being a dwarf to give one some advantages. Height bonus, do it in darkness by darkvision (hush, Hilgya!), stonecunning, etc.

[Lex]

No, Lawful Neutral. We're told he'd Good, but all his character beats are about following the rules, using knowledge of the rules to twist things to his preferred outcome and even selling out his team to the forces of (corrupt) order. All straight up Lawful. In fact, from pretty much the moment we're introduced to him in OOPCs the single trait everyone defines him by is his Lawfulness. He even obeys orders from the paladin in that first group who's trying to get him quietly murdered (and doesn't draw the conclusion that he needs to consider the morality of a paladin's instead of blindly obeying, which crops up again with Miko, what, three times?).

I'm actually giving him credit for Roy saying he's Good, because from what we've seen Durkon's pretty much straight up LN.

He let himself be killed by Malak in order to not expose his companions to danger, an act so good that left an impression on Belkar himself. A LN Durkon not only wouldn't have acted that way, but would have also accepted Malak's offer of a compromise instead of fighting him. It's true that Durkon's defining trait is being lawful, but that doesn't mean he isn't also good.

[Doug Lampert]

He let himself be killed by Malak in order to not expose his companions to danger, an act so good that left an impression on Belkar himself. A LN Durkon not only wouldn't have acted that way, but would have also accepted Malak's offer of a compromise instead of fighting him. It's true that Durkon's defining trait is being lawful, but that doesn't mean he isn't also good.

I'm with Durkon being good, but extreme loyalty to your own group is in fact a Lawful trait. And Malak's offers were all garbage (admittedly, part of the reason they were garbage is that they were unacceptable to a Good character, which is what they were made to, but none of them were compromises, they were all some variant of "you give me everything I want and I let you live").

[Petrocorus]

Horrors!

By cuting down, i meant reducing a lot, not stoping completely.

Did i use the wrong vernacular?

And I am a long time Rolling Stones fan.

TV Trope ruined my life.

Not as far as I can tell. My brother, the tea drinker, differs with me on this.

And you still speak with him?

Maybe Thor (being chaotic) doesn't care about the one-step rule?

I'm still not convinced personally Thor is chaotic in OotS.
He's not really bothered by all the god's rules, but that seem to be because he find most of them dumb.
But there certainly a reason he's basically the titular god of the most honor-bound society of the world.
We know he did it because of Hel's wager, but honor and tradition are certainly not against his nature, or else he would have give the job to someone else, like maybe Heimdal.

But then I though, wait, French Guiana is (presumably) also a province of migrants,

It is, except obviously for the native ameridians, who are a minority.

I should check that. But we don't have a group of people that think of themselves as English

If you're talking about USA, that's probably because USA are a country, while Guyane is not. It is not even a semi-autonomous province like French Polynesia. It is a région of France, with the same status as any other regions save for a few adaptations to the particular geographical situation, some fiscal benefits due to the economical situation, and some old royal decrees that protects the Amerindians. Plus the fact that the separation of Church and State is not effective here for a reason no one really knows.

That would explain why they put a fifteen year old girl in charge.

Well.. technically, she was never in charge.

[Rogar Demonblud]

A sergeant in motion outranks a lieutenant at rest, and a peasant girl in the fight outranks a prince sitting on his butt.

[Lex]

I'm with Durkon being good, but extreme loyalty to your own group is in fact a Lawful trait. And Malak's offers were all garbage (admittedly, part of the reason they were garbage is that they were unacceptable to a Good character, which is what they were made to, but none of them were compromises, they were all some variant of "you give me everything I want and I let you live").

I view refusing to ask your friend for help when you are in danger to keep them safe more as a sign of goodness than loyalty, though.

[Petrocorus]

A sergeant in motion outranks a lieutenant at rest, and a peasant girl in the fight outranks a prince sitting on his butt.

I was more thinking about the Prince's bastard brother who was not sitting on his butt.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Fair point, I'll admit.

[Quizatzhaderac]

I am not sure I understand, what speculation?

You pointed out my explanation of American Soylent Soy wasn't really particular to America, and I said that I could only wildly speculate to further differentiate why America and France were so different. I have further answers, just not good ones.

[Fyraltari]

You pointed out my explanation of American Soylent Soy wasn't really particular to America, and I said that I could only wildly speculate to further differentiate why America and France were so different. I have further answers, just not good ones.

Ah, okay, I get it.

[Petrocorus]

You pointed out my explanation of American Soylent Soy wasn't really particular to America, and I said that I could only wildly speculate to further differentiate why America and France were so different. I have further answers, just not good ones.

You mean, like the fact you drink coffee in soda cup?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Hey, we also drink water, tea, iced tea, lemonade, malts, shakes, smoothies, juice and milk from the exact same kind of cup. Makes it very simple to order supplies.

[Quizatzhaderac]

You mean, like the fact you drink coffee in soda cup?

Those are entirely different types of paper cups.

So horror story time, once in a restaurant I ordered a glass of sangría, and they brought it to me.... in a pilsner glass!

[arimareiji]

I thought that she got fired.

Ow.

Well, to be fair there was a lot at stake.

[Fyraltari]

Ow.

Well, to be fair there was a lot at stake.

The whole thing was a hot mess, to be sure. It's hardly surprising she couldn't keep her cool, she was always a hothead.

[Ghosty]

I thought that she got fired.

(Captain America) I understood that reference. (/Captain America). Edit, as did most of the rest of you. And in a funnier way than I first thought, too.

"Fired"....LOL.

[Ionathus]

I think it's more likely that they're going to go into a dungeon they haven't cleared yet, revealing the MitD's misdirection, but not necessarily his hand in it.



MitD was painting X's on doors they hadn't gone through yet to slow them down.

I just had this sudden realization upon rereading the strip, and rushed to the forums to see if others had realized. It was, of course, suggested by post #11

Edit: Whoops I've stumbled into a Joan of Arc pun duel

[Petrocorus]

Hey, we also drink water, tea, iced tea, lemonade, malts, shakes, smoothies, juice and milk from the exact same kind of cup. Makes it very simple to order supplies.

I had the perfect Kaamelott reference for this. But i fear not many would understand it.

I got this one though:

Spoiler

Show

Edit: Whoops I've stumbled into a Joan of Arc pun duel

Joan of Aaargh?

[Fyraltari]

I had the perfect Kaamelott reference for this. But i fear not many would understand it.

Pretty please?

[Petrocorus]

Pretty please?

I was thinking to this one:

Spoiler

Show

[Deathhappens]

Yeah.. I'm worried that this is how the Evil Gang will know some dungeons have not been cleared, but are marked with a red X.

could they trace that back to the MitD?

This might be the videogames talking, but isn't it more likely Team Evil will assume that, since the monsters are back in a door they clearly visited before, the monsters respawned somehow? After all, it would only make sense to make the defenses self-replenishing otherwise anyone could figure out the location of the gate just by throwing cannon fodder at the doors until they got what they wanted.

[RatElemental]

This might be the videogames talking, but isn't it more likely Team Evil will assume that, since the monsters are back in a door they clearly visited before, the monsters respawned somehow? After all, it would only make sense to make the defenses self-replenishing otherwise anyone could figure out the location of the gate just by throwing cannon fodder at the doors until they got what they wanted.

It's been said in comic that the monsters in the dungeons do replenish. That's why Oona is fighting with them, to make sure they don't kill too many that the populations can't recover.

[Jacky720]

This might be the videogames talking, but isn't it more likely Team Evil will assume that, since the monsters are back in a door they clearly visited before, the monsters respawned somehow? After all, it would only make sense to make the defenses self-replenishing otherwise anyone could figure out the location of the gate just by throwing cannon fodder at the doors until they got what they wanted.

The monsters are very powerful and could probably dispatch "cannon fodder" without breaking a sweat anyway, but yes, respawning is a plausible interpretation. Recall that the bugbears have been hunting in there, at least somewhat sustainably, for a while.

Probably been said before, but come to think of it, Kraagor's Gate is really just designed to buy time against anybody powerful enough to challenge the monsters of any single dungeon, isn't it? Lucky for us, time is exactly what our heroes need right now, but...

[Alcore]

Alcore's post was in the context of what Redcloak could do with Xykon's phylactery once X was destroyed. Redcloak doesn't have a specific need to destroy the phylactery, just stop Xykon from regenerating.

Of course I do think that destroying it would be the best idea in the long run. Even if it takes a millenia, if Xykon somehow reformed I could see him starting some Goblin genocide for revenge against Redcloak.

Stopping him from regenerating is a long run idea; just not the last. Redcloak doesn't have the means now but once Xykon is prevented from regenerating at all he has a lot of time to find the one way of doing it.

Xykon, himself, doesn't have much of a support base. He has a hypnotized good monster.


He is much more vulnerable than most liches who have some kind of cult.