OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

[Ghosty]

...No clue if they'll even think to blame the Monster in the Dark. Remember, they think he's stupid as well as naive.

Nicely explained.

The thing about thinking the MITD is dumb, is that

Spoiler

Show

RC claimed he knows what the MITD is. Shouldn't that also mean RC also knows how intelligent the MITD can be?

Granted, early on, the MITD did act like a simpleton, but getting outmaneuvered by the MITD outside of the remnants of Girard's Gate should've given RC a clue that things might've changed on that front? Who else would Team Evil think is likely to be messing with them? Someone from the Bugbear Village?

Maybe, but why? Messing with adventuring parties is likely to be suicidal for any village they traipse through. Besides, it's healthier and more socially acceptable, to simply price gouge them,(https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0122.html) than to actively screw with them.

[locksmith of lo]

it would also be a bit funny if they found that this dungeon is full and they are not well prepared to face what ever is inside and come out battered and drained, and definitely not ready for another fight.

[Metastachydium]

People can be bad at things.

Indeed. However, subtly manipulating Xykon is something Redcloak does fairly well. And this very strip is proof enough that Redcloak's sufficiently smart not to make rushed and stupid oversights.

[bunsen_h]

Nope, Durkon is the one who makes the call to go into the ground instead of a door. She just added in opening a few extra doors on top.

And closing the last one, an important step in the bluff.

Panel 2 should say "loaded fer bear" not "loaded ta bear".

Possibly not, in Dwarfish mining idiom. (But it's probably a mistake.)

Of course, the best thing for our heroes would be for them to get seriously roughted up, come out, and THEN get attacked by TOofS

Oh, right, nice point!

[Peelee]

Indeed. However, subtly manipulating Xykon is something Redcloak does fairly well. And this very strip is proof enough that Redcloak's sufficiently smart not to make rushed and stupid oversights.

Yes, but if I'm going to avoid being wrong I have to keep clutching at straws.

[Metastachydium]

Yes, but if I'm going to avoid being wrong I have to keep clutching at straws.

Heh. That's the spirit!

[The MunchKING]

Yes he was (and he probably spent more time as Redcloak's chief lieutenant in occupied Azure City than he did as prime minister), but that's beside the point. Redcloak just strikes me as the kind of guy who would pay attention not to use that name when talking about that city.

To me it seems the opposite. He's a big enough nerd to care about what the "correct" answer is regardless of what the politically appropriate answer would be.

[Lerch]

Xykon's greatest tactical advantage is his great magic power, and he knows it. That's why he rarely bothers with complex plans, because in his experience most of his problems can be solved by applying ridiculous amounts of violence.

The Military had a saying...If you are using force and it isn't working....you're not using enough....

[Metastachydium]

To me it seems the opposite. He's a big enough nerd to care about what the "correct" answer is regardless of what the politically appropriate answer would be.

Well, that sounds a lot like him in general, but he also tends to get all emotional whenever those pesky Azurite humans come up.

[Worldsong]

Yes, but if I'm going to avoid being wrong I have to keep clutching at straws.

And with that I think you've summarized every internet debate in existence.

[Anansiil]

Oona ftw!!! This was hilarious and thrilling, as well as clever!

{scrubbed}

[Jason]

My prediction is that Team Evil will run in to big trouble rather quickly, which will let them realize that someone has been messing with their door marks. However, they will blame the Order rather than the MitD. Realizing they can't trust the marks will lead them to rethink their approach and they will realize where to find the gate. It will then be a race between the Order and Team Evil to get to the gate first.

[Breccia]

I love Oona so much.

Excellent work by Oona. Just because it was the wrong result doesn't mean it wasn't good thinking. It just makes what the dwarved did that much more impressive.

[KorvinStarmast]

"We are loving you so much, Miss Oona!"

- signed: the tracks and all of us.

Yep.

It's a door they already cleared out though

I'll bet a quataloo against that.

could they trace that back to the MitD?

Maybe. I'll guess that Redcloak will deduce that once they get back. And Xykon will blame it MiTD being stupid.

My bet is on "not the one they need" but "not one they've cleared" in order to re-start the "timer" on their search,

Nice breakdown, I'll go with that.

Xykon's greatest tactical advantage is his great magic power, and he knows it. That's why he rarely bothers with complex plans, because in his experience most of his problems can be solved by applying ridicolous amounts of violence.

Which is where V's head was at vis a vis arcane power until the come uppance ...

However, subtly manipulating Xykon is something Redcloak does fairly well. And this very strip is proof enough that Redcloak's sufficiently smart not to make rushed and stupid oversights.

Yep, I think Redcloak will call out MiTD once they figure out that "those x's didn't mean empty" ...

Two favorite panels: #5 (who puts two dwarf clerics in a party?) and the last one (should've stuck with the fun one )


This is a great strip, thanks Giant.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I suspect RC called it Azure City just to avoid confusing Xykon and/or starting another argument on the subject when there's PCs to kill.

[pendell]

So our heroes both survive and escape. I should be upset about the lack of consequence but I'm not; Durkon and Minrah earned their escape. They weren't bailed out by a deus-ex-machina. So instead I must applaud!


Also, I note lampshades appear to be having a clearance sale, both in terms of explaining why Xykon doesn't use Superb Dispelling and some fun made of the fact we have two Dwarven clerics in the party.

Nicely done!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[RatElemental]

Xykon is super powerful but his achilles' heel is his low Wisdom score. But doesn't he need a high int score to be a lich?

Being a lich just gives +2 int. Xykon probably has about +6 for being a lich on top of being really old, but if he had a poor int stat to begin with he could still be low teens. I doubt he's under 10 though, he'd have to have had a Thog level int to begin with for that.

[Metastachydium]

I suspect RC called it Azure City just to avoid confusing Xykon and/or starting another argument on the subject when there's PCs to kill.

So you'd say it's an „uh, the leader” moment?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Nice to see all the call-backs to the shell-game at Azure City - and the way superior cooperation and trust beats out superior firepower :)

I can't help but notice that the injury on Xykon's head appears to disappear between panels 3 and 4? It could have been healed, I suppose, but there's no visible casting and liches don't have fast healing.

[Rogar Demonblud]

A lot of healing is done off panel.

[catagent101]

So I looked through the old comics and it seems like there is no conclusive answer as to whether or not the door they went in was falsely marked by MiTD.

Firstly, they are not in the same area where MiTD started falsely marking doors, so they aren't part of the ones we know aren't cleared. The giant green door in 1040 doesn't match the smaller one we see in today's comic. It has prominent triangular hinges, and we can see that the green door in today's comic doesn't have them. In fact, I don't think we've seen these doors before, I haven't been able to find them in comic 1039, 1041 or 1203. The ones in 1041 look vaguely similar but have differences on closer inspection (the yellow door is a single door not a double door for example).

Secondly, it MiTD has been marking other doors in addition to the initial ones. In 1189 Redcloak says that they previously have done six doors. In 1041 only four doors were marked by MiTD, meaning that MiTD also marked six or more doors at least once. So the fact that these doors weren't part of the initial set doesn't mean that some aren't falsely marked.

[Fish]

There's more than one shell game going on here.

• Durkon and Minrah open some doors as a diversion while they hide somewhere else. This could expose the:
• Marked doors in the Rift are not necessarily cleared dungeons. Redcloak, Oona and Xykon just charged into one — slightly depleted on spells, possibly without having buffs in place because they did not expect to meet resistance. If they run into high-level monsters, this could expose:
• Xykon's phylactery is not where he expects it to be, in the secret lair on the Astral Plane.

The only way that could happen, I suspect, is if Xykon is actually killed in this encounter. He would then regrow a new body in, what, 1d10 days?

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

What are the odds that this is not one of the cleared doors?

- In this comic, like 100%

Does Xykon get destroyed here and discover MitD's unintentional deception and Redcloak's intentional one?

[xroads]

Hmmm... I wonder if True Seeing would of spotted the Stone Meld. Does anyone remember how 3.x True Seeing worked?

[Jacky720]

Bad idea: Playing a shell game straight.
Good idea: Playing a shell game with the shell in your hand.
Epic idea: Subtly exposing your palm but putting the shell in your other hand.

[Wraithfighter]

Bad idea: Playing a shell game straight.
Good idea: Playing a shell game with the shell in your hand.
Epic idea: Subtly exposing your palm but putting the shell in your other hand.

Galaxy-Brain Idea: Realize you're playing the shell game against a suspicious person and play it straight, knowing they'll be looking at your hands and sleeves far more than the shells themselves.

[EmperorSarda]

Hmmm... I wonder if True Seeing would of spotted the Stone Meld. Does anyone remember how 3.x True Seeing worked?

True seeing only penetrates illusions. They are in the stone. So true seeing would not pick up anything.

[Ghosty]

Hmmm... I wonder if True Seeing would of spotted the Stone Meld. Does anyone remember how 3.x True Seeing worked?

I thought it ambiguous. Shocking, I know, for D&D rules. https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm

I'd hang my hat on the No side with the following quote from that link: "True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects." There's a layer of stone---very thin, true---between the Meld recipients and the outside world. They can hear what's going on the other side, but they can't see it.

EDIT: Aside, good thing the Valley floor isn't made of the same interdimensional stone that the walls of Monster Hollow are. That'd be embarrassing. Well, at least Durkon and Minrah wouldn't be embarrassed for long...

How would you find them, if you were Team Evil? Detect Magic? Locate Object?

[Psychronia]

Nice job Minrah. Your tendency to overthink and ramble probably helped here.
I have no idea what level she is, but she's already a significant asset to the team.

And Oona is lovable as always. Makes me want to make a character like her.

[White_Mouse]

Ok, Xykon, you stepped right into this one!

Spoiler: Immature humour warning!

Show

I could hit 'em with a big ass.
big ass is my strongest spell.
plenty of her to horribly kill someone.