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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Fyraltari's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I was just wondering about that! Unless it's been snowing consistently, the cleared doors shouldn't have snow buildup around their swing radius.
    The yellow one over the big green one does.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by drazen View Post
    Ugh, another bastardized saying, kind of like "could care less" and "couldn't care less." Put me in the camp of loaded FOR bear... as in, you have your gun loaded for shooting bears... I've never even heard of the other version, and can't even figure out what it's even supposed to mean.
    I didn't even notice the discrepancy on first reading, and when I went back on a slower re-read, 'loaded to bear' sounds right in my head. I'm Irish; Durkon speaks with a sort of stereotypical Scottish cant (though it's gotten to a level it's almost flawless, and in the Firamament arc with all the dwarves I swear I was reading half of them with, like, Cork accents) and those two languages have similar dialect histories, and our slang . . . echo each other, I guess? Is that a good way to put it?

    A pillar bears weight, and loaded is usually used to refer to weight instead of any form of reloading in terms of slang on our side of the pond. Also we don't have any bears anymore. Ergo, loaded to bear weight. Locked and loaded by any other name.
    I draw, and I write sometimes! Drow paladin avatar by me. They/Them

  3. - Top - End - #153
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonkerbl View Post
    Xykon is super powerful but his achilles' heel is his low Wisdom score. But doesn't he need a high int score to be a lich?
    technically His (caster attribute) must be at least 10. craft wonderous item feat and had wasted 11 levels to get caster level 11 despite being unable to cast 1st level spells. Level 0 spells still count as spells and meet base requirements.


    beyond caster level and phylactery cost the bar is real low on Lich.

  4. - Top - End - #154

    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Good point. Just look at how Dorukan's Dungeon filled with monsters when Xykon left it for a short time between #147 and #192.
    Dorukan's Dungeon was blown up at the end of the first book. Are you perhaps thinking of Xykon's back up lair that had been left unoccupied since at least the start of the siege of Dorukan's Dungeon in SoD some months before the strip started?

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Colorblind. But I eventuality figured out the one you were taking about, so good catch! I now assume it snows daily.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Dorukan's Dungeon was blown up at the end of the first book. Are you perhaps thinking of Xykon's back up lair that had been left unoccupied since at least the start of the siege of Dorukan's Dungeon in SoD some months before the strip started?
    Uh... yeah, I was totally wrong then, those aren't the same dungeon.

  7. - Top - End - #157

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gatemansgc View Post
    you know what would suck? if that was one of the doors that MitD painted that actually had the gate in it!
    I don't expect this to happen. There is a small chance that this might be the dungeon with the gate, but they aren't going in to beat the dungeon. First monster they meet, they will probably withdraw.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Wasn't there a thing with multi-dimensional stone or whatever that kept you from just hopping through it to check for the gate in all of the dungeons? Why were they able to stone shape into them if the rock has magic plot-protection?

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I was just wondering about that! Unless it's been snowing consistently, the cleared doors shouldn't have snow buildup around their swing radius.
    Snow blows around too. It doesn't have to constantly snow to have snow build up against all the doors, there just has to be snow around and a wind blowing into the canyon, which there very likely would be.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Do phylacteries get the save bonuses of the Lich, or are they unattended objects? If the latter, Redcloak could Plane Shift the phylactery to the Positive Energy Plane and found the Gobbotopia Arcane Academy as his backup plan.
    Plane Shift seems to only work on creatures, so I'm guessing phylacteries would function as objects. He could also just drop the phylactery in lava or a jar of acid.

    Goblin Larry Gardeners? Sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
    Seems that Oona might be sympathetic to the main characters.
    Even if she was a good tracker, she would have known about their ploys.
    If she was sympathetic to them, she probably wouldn't smash their big face with big maces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thermophille View Post
    Wasn't there a thing with multi-dimensional stone or whatever that kept you from just hopping through it to check for the gate in all of the dungeons? Why were they able to stone shape into them if the rock has magic plot-protection?
    Someone already mentioned above that multidimensiol stone blocks Ethereal traveling, which is what Ghostform does. Meld into stone isn't ethereal travel.

    ETA: The art on the 6th panel is neat. Characters running viewed from the back are usually drawn how Minrah is running, but Durkon's drawn with another stance altogether.
    Last edited by understatement; 2020-10-05 at 04:35 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitman00 View Post
    *I recognize that these are longshot possibilities, as the logical thing for Redcloak to do if Xykon gets killed is to destroy the phylactery before Xykon can regenerate and kill him.
    Or shove it someplace that Xykon can't ever possibly escape from, say into a sphere of annihilation.

    Quote Originally Posted by drazen View Post
    [...] perhaps our invisible friends from the end of Book 6 are meant to be some sort of guardians like Lirian employed, and maybe she got Dorukan to lend her some magical aid. After all, they were only not checking in AFTER they finished building the defenses... and it's not like they actually all followed that rule, what with Lirian and Dorukan hooking up over the years.
    The invisible pair remind me slightly of the character Amok from The Illearth War, the second of the Thomas Covenant books. "We aren't here to defend Kraagor's Gate!
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  13. - Top - End - #163

    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Redcloak could just Plane Shift himself to the PEP, drop the amulet and leave. It's probably the best place to leave it, given what the PEP does to undead.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Someone already mentioned above that multidimensiol stone blocks Ethereal traveling, which is what Ghostform does. Meld into stone isn't ethereal travel.
    Then why hasn't Redcloack done it? If you can just Meld Into Stone to check all of the dungeons, this could've been a cut-and-dry case by now.
    Last edited by Thermophille; 2020-10-05 at 04:46 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Xykon stated once that his phylactery has so many warding spells on it that he doesn't remember them all. Specifically, panel 8 of Strip 656. Therefore, I'm not sure if a Sphere of Annihilation or even the crater of a volcano could destroy it.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlsfd View Post
    I'm not sure if a Sphere of Annihilation or even the crater of a volcano could destroy it.
    Not sure how a volcano is supposed to destroy the thing if a Sphere of Annihilation can't, but wards that protect against a Sphere would be pretty impressive; not sure if any spells in 3.5 do that.

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    GreataxeFighterGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thermophille View Post
    Then why hasn't Redcloack done it? If you can just Meld Into Stone to check all of the dungeons, this could've been a cut-and-dry case by now.
    The caster can't move around when they're melded into stone. They can only step out of the block.

    Elsewise, Durkon and Minrah would have just melded into the stone the moment they were out of sight, instead of doing the door-tracks-game.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    The caster can't move around when they're melded into stone. They can only step out of the block.

    Elsewise, Durkon and Minrah would have just melded into the stone the moment they were out of sight, instead of doing the door-tracks-game.
    Thanks for the info!

  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Snow blows around too. It doesn't have to constantly snow to have snow build up against all the doors, there just has to be snow around and a wind blowing into the canyon, which there very likely would be.
    I rather famously do not know how snow works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thermophille View Post
    Then why hasn't Redcloack done it? If you can just Meld Into Stone to check all of the dungeons, this could've been a cut-and-dry case by now.
    Meld Into Stone isn't travel. It's a hidey hole.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  20. - Top - End - #170
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlsfd View Post
    Xykon stated once that his phylactery has so many warding spells on it that he doesn't remember them all. Specifically, panel 8 of Strip 656. Therefore, I'm not sure if a Sphere of Annihilation or even the crater of a volcano could destroy it.
    that's the beauty of it. You don't need to destroy the phylactery; you need to place in a place that Xykon cannot form a body. It the object is not considered inherently evil dumping it in a positive energy plane ensures the phylactery remains and Xykon is destroyed every X days when his skull tries to reform.


    Heck; a monastery with a few level 1 clerics with +1 clubs can make it a nightly chore.


    Once a phylactery is in enemy hands a Lich is in big trouble.

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Redcloak could just Plane Shift himself to the PEP, drop the amulet and leave. It's probably the best place to leave it, given what the PEP does to undead.
    Does the Positive Energy Plane have an anti-undead effect in addition to being Major Positive Dominant? IIRC undead just get all the benefits from that (I know fast-healing works at least, the temp HP may not) with none of the downsides. (Both effects are Fort saves and neither seem to be harmless or affect objects) That's pretty much the opposite of the best place if it doesn't have any additional effects.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by deltamire View Post
    A pillar bears weight, and loaded is usually used to refer to weight instead of any form of reloading in terms of slang on our side of the pond. Also we don't have any bears anymore. Ergo, loaded to bear weight. Locked and loaded by any other name.
    Bearing weight? Is Xykon going to bench-press his two dwarven adversaries?
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    Heck; a monastery with a few level 1 clerics with +1 clubs can make it a nightly chore.
    ...someone needs to build a campaign around this...

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    It occurs to me that Team Evil might, upon realizing this level isn't cleared out like they'd thought, will instead double back out rather than clear it first. They'd see the monsters and conclude that the dwarves can't be back here or they'd have been killed already.

  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goodpeople25 View Post
    Does the Positive Energy Plane have an anti-undead effect in addition to being Major Positive Dominant? IIRC undead just get all the benefits from that (I know fast-healing works at least, the temp HP may not) with none of the downsides. (Both effects are Fort saves and neither seem to be harmless or affect objects) That's pretty much the opposite of the best place if it doesn't have any additional effects.
    Even mortals can't survive on the positive energy plane for terribly long, so an undead (who is actively harmed by positive energy) doesn't really have much of a chance.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goodpeople25 View Post
    Does the Positive Energy Plane have an anti-undead effect in addition to being Major Positive Dominant? IIRC undead just get all the benefits from that (I know fast-healing works at least, the temp HP may not) with none of the downsides. (Both effects are Fort saves and neither seem to be harmless or affect objects) That's pretty much the opposite of the best place if it doesn't have any additional effects.
    Considering that The Giant has stated that he doesn't care about following the rules ver batum, I don't think he'd rule lore-unfriendly RAW over entertaining and lore friendly explosion.
    Last edited by Thermophille; 2020-10-05 at 05:19 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #177

    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I rather famously do not know how snow works.
    You need to move to a state that has weather beyond 'flatten everything'.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodpeople25 View Post
    Does the Positive Energy Plane have an anti-undead effect in addition to being Major Positive Dominant? IIRC undead just get all the benefits from that (I know fast-healing works at least, the temp HP may not) with none of the downsides. (Both effects are Fort saves and neither seem to be harmless or affect objects) That's pretty much the opposite of the best place if it doesn't have any additional effects.
    Positive energy destroys undead. That's what you channel with a turning attempt, that's what you use for cure/healing spells, and that's what a weapon with the disruption property is made out of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraithfighter View Post
    ...someone needs to build a campaign around this...
    Someone already built a dungeon that consisted of three zombies in a sealed portable hole beating Elminster with giant clubs every round of every day forever.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Thermophille View Post
    wards that protect against a Sphere would be pretty impressive; not sure if any spells in 3.5 do that.
    You could probably use planer travel to move the protected item if it is close to a sphere - that should protect it via relocation.

    If you want to protect it outside of that you could likely use contingent Gates to trigger the 50% chance of destroying the sphere - or have some rods of cancellation to destroy it should it come close to what you are protecting.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    So I'm thinking this is a dungeon that they didn't actually clear, xykon is under prepared, and the whole can of worms is opened. 2 maybe, or more even.

    MITD scheme is revealed. RC's scheme is revealed, some other ace xykon has is revealed if he has one.

    This has a lot of plot potential, and while it seems perhaps too soon for the stuff to hit the fan, maybe it will and the plot will go in a direction we had not considered.

    No matter what, I'm loving it even if it does go well, and they go into a dungeon already cleared and they just go "shucks" and move on to a new thing.
    Vae Victus!

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1216 - The Discussion Thread

    Longshot prediction: Team Evil ends here. Xykon bites it, and Redcloak has to retreat in a way that keepa him from the real phylactery. So Xykon figures out the ruse and the Plan os dead.

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