New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 23 of 31 FirstFirst ... 13141516171819202122232425262728293031 LastLast
Results 661 to 690 of 915
  1. - Top - End - #661
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Artillery into the dust cloud? Against shields that they couldn't break from orbit?



    Which was very well explained; the mess there is his invisible ships, not the rescue itself.

    While there is a lot of hyperbole that campaign to me is the peak of narrative intertwined with gameplay. New units make a debut, new rules are added, all tied together with an exciting, if formulaic, narrative event. In-world justifications for a bunch of stuff are tried and some awesome scenes come out of it, and then they hit the reset button and back to status quo. But a reset button you knew from the start was there, so its not an asspull.
    Against the Tau doing hit and run attacks against their vanguard on the march there.


    The invisible ships, yes.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  2. - Top - End - #662
    Banned
     
    LansXero's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Against the Tau doing hit and run attacks against their vanguard on the march there.
    But those are by the invisible teams precisely so they dont get shelled out before uncovering their position. Also, he had an absurdly tight schedule to comply with; were he afforded the time to deploy camp and conduct a proper siege, then he would've likely done that.

  3. - Top - End - #663
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    But those are by the invisible teams precisely so they dont get shelled out before uncovering their position. Also, he had an absurdly tight schedule to comply with; were he afforded the time to deploy camp and conduct a proper siege, then he would've likely done that.
    Speaking of the schedule, I don't understand why they were on such a tight schedule. I mean, I could understand why the fleets and the space marines would have to leave, but why the Imperial Guard too?

    Also they weren't Stealth Teams, there were very much tank duels against Hammerheads and the like.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  4. - Top - End - #664
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Speaking of the schedule, I don't understand why they were on such a tight schedule. I mean, I could understand why the fleets and the space marines would have to leave, but why the Imperial Guard too?

    Also they weren't Stealth Teams, there were very much tank duels against Hammerheads and the like.
    Tanks are stealthy if creed is around.

  5. - Top - End - #665
    Banned
     
    LansXero's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Speaking of the schedule, I don't understand why they were on such a tight schedule. I mean, I could understand why the fleets and the space marines would have to leave, but why the Imperial Guard too?

    Also they weren't Stealth Teams, there were very much tank duels against Hammerheads and the like.
    They were still jamming the crap out of their auspexes and using the ruined battlefield to cover their aproach. Also he had the numbers to not really care about losses so long as the advance remained steady, remeber that the Imperium doesn't actually lose, they just run out of time and go "nebula burns, everyone dies". There were a ton of soldiers and machines evacuating at the end after all.

  6. - Top - End - #666
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    They were still jamming the crap out of their auspexes and using the ruined battlefield to cover their aproach. Also he had the numbers to not really care about losses so long as the advance remained steady, remeber that the Imperium doesn't actually lose, they just run out of time and go "nebula burns, everyone dies". There were a ton of soldiers and machines evacuating at the end after all.
    I know. I'm just absolutely sick of the Imperial Guard being portrayed as only capable of human wave tactics. Yeah, they won, and yeah they didn't need to care about their losses. It's still stupidly sloppy in my opinion and it wouldn't have taken much for them to do even better.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  7. - Top - End - #667
    Banned
     
    LansXero's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I know. I'm just absolutely sick of the Imperial Guard being portrayed as only capable of human wave tactics. Yeah, they won, and yeah they didn't need to care about their losses. It's still stupidly sloppy in my opinion and it wouldn't have taken much for them to do even better.
    Not that I disagree in principle, but at least in this case they make a point even before deployment of why rushing is all thats left to them. Pask losing the ace duel to Longstrike stings more, mostly because I hate 'cool, collected, reasonable' characters ever winning. Whats the point of obsesively devoting to one aspect of your existence if a more balanced ******* will still outdo you at that one thing?

    If anything though, it all comes down to mechanicus greed and incompetence. Even through the weather generators (that the AdMech failed to detect), the jamming and the invisible BS (that the AdMech failed to counter) they still were making progress until their flank literally evaporated (because the AdMech was only there to steal stuff for themselves). Even with a jank ass strategy and every factor against them, the hammer of the emperor was breaking through, until it was just too much all at once. Even the Tau had accepted the loss x___x.

    Best scene though? When they realize they cant crack the Obsidian Knight and shoot at the ground :D. Its YGO levels of bull**** right there, while at the same time being entirely logical and reasonable.
    Last edited by LansXero; 2021-04-19 at 04:12 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #668
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Lord Torath's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Sharangar's Revenge
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    In case anyone's interested, Humble Bundle has a bundle of Black Library books available for the next two weeks (13 days, 21 hours, 28 minutes as of this posting).

    (Also, I'm not affiliated with Humble Bundle)
    Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
    My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
    Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season

  9. - Top - End - #669
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Brookshw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    In case anyone's interested, Humble Bundle has a bundle of Black Library books available for the next two weeks (13 days, 21 hours, 28 minutes as of this posting).

    (Also, I'm not affiliated with Humble Bundle)
    I like how all the $1 bundle are all guard books, even books about the guard are cheap (and disposable?)
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendin, probably
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
    Avatar courtesy of Linklele

  10. - Top - End - #670
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2020

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    I like how all the $1 bundle are all guard books, even books about the guard are cheap (and disposable?)
    The real deciding factor on disposability is if they come with pre-punched holes in the corner a la the Farmers Almanac for you to hang in your outhouse!

  11. - Top - End - #671
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    - No matter what Necrons do; Cicatrix.
    What about their blackstone pylon technology?
    "If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins

    Omegaupdate Forum

    WoTC Forums Archive + Indexing Projext

    PostImage, a free and sensible alternative to Photobucket

    Temple+ Modding Project for Atari's Temple of Elemental Evil

    Morrus' RPG Forum (EN World v2)

  12. - Top - End - #672
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    What about their blackstone pylon technology?
    Problem: Abaddon spends ten thousand years destroying Pylons, with the culmination of his plan ending up creating the Cicatrix.

    Solution: You must build additional Pylons.
    Spoiler: My Mum Says I'm Cool
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  13. - Top - End - #673
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Problem: Abaddon spends ten thousand years destroying Pylons, with the culmination of his plan ending up creating the Cicatrix.

    Solution: You must build additional Pylons.
    As awesome of a reference that is, that does actually make sense. Abaddon mostly destroyed the Pylons when they were deactivated, and relatively undefended. The Necrons could build new ones, ones that they are guarding, and that are more actively denying the warp.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  14. - Top - End - #674
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    As awesome of a reference that is, that does actually make sense. Abaddon mostly destroyed the Pylons when they were deactivated, and relatively undefended. The Necrons could build new ones, ones that they are guarding, and that are more actively denying the warp.
    Isn't that the whole deal with the Pariah Nexus?
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  15. - Top - End - #675
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2020

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Aye, the Pariah Nexus is very much the Necron response to the Cicatrix. And also that first piece of short fiction they put out about the miners just losing their will was some amazing horror writing.

  16. - Top - End - #676
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Warhammer 3 news is coming out this week. Been a long period of silence but finally we are getting something. And if it follows on from the teaser, we are starting with Kislev vs Khorne. Content creators and journos have already had a play with an advanced build and there have been one or two leaks so far as well.

    On other things, I haven't really been paying more than passing interest in Warhammer for a long time. Not really since the time of Squats and epic scale. I actually didn't find out WFB had been squatted until a year after it happened. But I had a bit of a nostalgia hit the other day and went reminiscing, only to find out that the White Dwarf issue I was recalling was thirty years old.

    It was about the old Ork Freebooterz from back in 2e WH40K. Which led me to going through some other stuff. Man, Orks were so random back then, which was half the fun. I can understand why they changed it, what with the model has to represent what it actually has, and for balance issues, but rolling randomly for gear and never knowing what you were going to end up with was fun. Of course you could never know if that amazing kustomized weapon was actually rolled up or not by your opponent without actually seeing it happen. (And this seems to have been where Ghazghkull originated, as a few random rolls on gear and bionik bitz charts for an in-house Goff army - he wan't even a warlord, just a mere warboss).

    Anyway, freebooter - they had some truely bizarre options that seem to have long been dropped. Such as Khorne worshiping Stormboyz, Chaos Renegade Ork Warbands (complete with random gifts), Mutated (but non-Chaos) Orks, Daemon possessed Weirdboyz, human mercenaries who imitate Orks, complete to clothing style, painting their skins green and using Orkish language, and Ork-genestealer hybrids. And the Blood Axes could actually take Imperial Guard units who were pretending to be mercenaries but had been sent to fight alongside the Blood Axes for whatever reason the Imperium had decided on.

    Yeah, a lot seems to have changed since those ancient days.

  17. - Top - End - #677
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quite a surprising amount of that still exists in the stories and lore - the Ork-imitating humans are called Diggas, for example, and they had a whole spin-off game made about them around 1999 or so.

    Just about the only thing in there that doesn't get a mention in the books is probably the Orks who directly worship the Chaos Gods, and even then there are Waaghs who ended up in Khorne's realm and endlessly fight Chaos Daemons - resurrecting each morning, Valhalla-style - for His amusement. Insofar as anyone can tell, the Orks are having a fantastic time in there.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2021-05-10 at 12:40 PM.
    ~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
    RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
    17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
    Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation

  18. - Top - End - #678
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    I think there was also a White Dwarf article that had rules for a Grey Knights vs Nurgle Corrupted Orks a long while back.

    I always like the little snippets of chaos/xenos lore, like the corrupted genestealer cults that are referenced but not described, or the various minor xenos with vague relationships with chaos like the loxatl and the sslyth, or the insinuations from FW that some eldar corsairs are corrupted.

    Of course I also the handful idea of xenos/xenos interactions we get, like the Eldar and Stryxis mutual burning hatred of one another.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  19. - Top - End - #679
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Quite a surprising amount of that still exists in the stories and lore - the Ork-imitating humans are called Diggas, for example, and they had a whole spin-off game made about them around 1999 or so.
    Its a shame it is relegated to the lore really. Be fun to have options to play some of that weird stuff, like ork-genestealer hybrids or some really random freebooter army.

  20. - Top - End - #680
    Banned
     
    LansXero's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Its a shame it is relegated to the lore really. Be fun to have options to play some of that weird stuff, like ork-genestealer hybrids or some really random freebooter army.
    You can always play older editions or make them up as kitbashes and fandexes. I for one welcome the streamlining and the reduction of dead SKUs / trash option bloat.

  21. - Top - End - #681
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Diggaz are a thing in our store, but that's only because the local store owner wrote his own ruleset for what started as ork trukk racing and gradually evolved to include more ork-adjacent factions. Diggaz are very popular since there's a lot of cool model options and they get some nice vehicle upgrades that orks don't have.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  22. - Top - End - #682
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Diggaz are a thing in our store, but that's only because the local store owner wrote his own ruleset for what started as ork trukk racing and gradually evolved to include more ork-adjacent factions. Diggaz are very popular since there's a lot of cool model options and they get some nice vehicle upgrades that orks don't have.
    Why not just play Gorkamorka?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Quite a surprising amount of that still exists in the stories and lore - the Ork-imitating humans are called Diggas, for example, and they had a whole spin-off game made about them around 1999 or so.
    What you are describing is the Diggaz faction from the Gorkamorka game. The remnants of the imperial presence on the planet the Ork spacehulk or ship crashed into. They were an expansion pack faction together with the Grot Rebellion and I believe the Muties.

    On that note, I ran across a Mad Max game and playing it the thing that kept coming to my mind was that this would be a very very good basis fora Gorkamorka game. It's seriously like 70% there already. Just changing the gfx skins and make it 85%.

    Both Gorkamorka and Necromunda were games my gaming group really wanted to have ago at but already at the turn of the millennia they were a bit too much fringe for it to work.
    Last edited by snowblizz; 2021-05-11 at 04:52 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #683
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    Why not just play Gorkamorka?
    Because it sucked?

    Well, no, that isn't fair. I played Gorkamorka, and was accidentally shipped a copy of the expansion book so I even played that too, and I enjoyed what I remember of it. It was just horribly under-supported, like every other Specialist Game at the time, and slightly more exploitative than most.
    Gorkamorka was basically an experiment to see how a new range of plastic trukks could be mass-produced before being released for 40k, and was a test-run for the 3rd edition Armour Penetration rules. Knocking out a game for it with art assets that would immediately get recycled in Codex Orks/3e just meant that GW got customers to pay them for the privilege of taking part in Q&A for 3rd Edition 40k.

    What you are describing is the Diggaz faction from the Gorkamorka game. The remnants of the imperial presence on the planet the Ork spacehulk or ship crashed into. They were an expansion pack faction together with the Grot Rebellion and I believe the Muties.
    The unfortunately titled Digganob expansion, which led to an unfortunate advertising campaign that a Blackshirt once told me about - when GW were pushing Gorkamorka as a product, some bright spark had the idea of running leagues in GW Stores wherein the staff would keep your Mob (roster) sheet and you'd play in a campaign once per week.

    The way they were going to advertise this? With a giant banner across the front window which read "Have YOU got the 'ardest Nob**!?". Fortunately veto'd by just about every store manager in the world, but still....

    ** For non-English speakers out there, or you young 'uns who just haven't come across it before; 'Nob' is British slang for 'Penis'.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2021-05-13 at 01:16 PM.
    ~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
    RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
    17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
    Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation

  24. - Top - End - #684
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Archpaladin Zousha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hastings, MN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    I had a friend who wanted to incorporate Gorkamorka into a Rogue Trader game we were going to do: the idea would be that the Rogue Trader (played by me) and his crew (the rest of the players) would crashland on the planet and have to fight/negotiate with the various local factions in order to get their vessel void-worthy again and figure out a way to get it off the planet once and for all. It was gonna be a whole big story arc for the campaign, but it never really got going.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  25. - Top - End - #685
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    The gameplay preview for Total War Warhammer 3 (and brief developer interviews) has come out. I'd hoped for a little more to be honest, as their was nothing of campaign gameplay, maps, rosters or the like, but I guess it is early days.

    At the same time, GW also released some more information, tying into to TW3 and also The Old World. The new units previewed, specifically the sled mounted artillery pulled by bears and the massive elemental bear were designed by GW for use with TOW as well as WH3. And there is a new map of Kislev. Interestingly, Norse Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves and the Hobgoblin Khanate all feature on the map.

    Also, one of the developers for WH3 said that expanding to the far east with Cathay allowed them to feature new races never before seen in the Warhammer IP. It could just be hype spiel or it could be an indication that we may get not just Cathay in the far east, but also places like Nippon and Ind.

  26. - Top - End - #686
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Brookshw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The gameplay preview for Total War Warhammer 3 (and brief developer interviews) has come out. I'd hoped for a little more to be honest, as their was nothing of campaign gameplay, maps, rosters or the like, but I guess it is early days.

    At the same time, GW also released some more information, tying into to TW3 and also The Old World. The new units previewed, specifically the sled mounted artillery pulled by bears and the massive elemental bear were designed by GW for use with TOW as well as WH3. And there is a new map of Kislev. Interestingly, Norse Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves and the Hobgoblin Khanate all feature on the map.

    Also, one of the developers for WH3 said that expanding to the far east with Cathay allowed them to feature new races never before seen in the Warhammer IP. It could just be hype spiel or it could be an indication that we may get not just Cathay in the far east, but also places like Nippon and Ind.
    I wouldn't be at all surprised if GW uses this as an experiment to see if expanding their product line to see if they can get more of a foothold in the Asian market (inb4 recasters beat them to it). TW3K already gives some hard numbers for how much untapped potential they have out there in comparing it's sales to TWW (as if it weren't obvious). If you're gonna redesign the game a'la Old World, why not do so in a way to appeal to your new market targets?

    I can't wait to find out more about the settlement battle maps and siege rework.
    Last edited by Brookshw; 2021-05-14 at 05:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendin, probably
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
    Avatar courtesy of Linklele

  27. - Top - End - #687
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Griffon

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    I've been catching up on my reading lately, thanks to a sudden drafting of GW novels added to Audible and GW themselves deigning to finally sell me some of the stuff that I've been asking for in the last year, so let's do a couple of super-fast book reviews.

    Spoilers, ahoy!

    Spoiler: The Primarchs: Lion El'Johnson
    Show
    Dull, irrelevant, and the DA's come off unfavourably as Marty Stu's.

    The premise is that the Blood Angels conquer-... sorry, "brought to Compliance" a world that was inhabited by psychic Body Snatchers who possessed human hosts and ate their souls, leaving them dull-witted, passionless and servitor-like. The BA's thought that they had exterminated the xenos, but it turns out that they missed some so the DA's are sent to quell a minor rebellion and refortify the planet while they figure all of this out - by which point, Xenos infiltrators have made it aboard the DA fleet and started another rebellion while the Astartes are stuck down below.

    And that's about it. The Lion doesn't even turn up until about halfway through the book, at which point he commends his XO on having done a really good job before telling him to double all the guards and build twice as many fortresses. He then has an extended monologue at the planet telling it that he's going to kill it and tame it for the Emperor... and then he does. There are no long-term ramifications, no other legions or Primarchs are involved, it's just a very long tale about Dark Angels slowly pacifying a planet because they're so great and really REALLY good at doing their job, you guys....

    There's some interesting lore in there about how the Dark Angels are perceived by the Emperor. While the Space Wolves are the Emperor's executioners, and the World Eaters are the Emperor's butchers, the Dark Angels are the guys you send to just up and genocide a culture. Their 'thing' is that they are just the best at scouring all life from a world with the minimum amount of effort or fuss, and that is how they earned most of their accolades, and what's more, the Lion is completely okay with this - that is terrifying and also great at the same time.

    But the story is a slog; 300 pages of telling us how great the Dark Angels are and how flawless the Lion is, and then some random never-seen before, never-see-again xenos pops up and gets blown up a lot. Nobody looks good because the whole plot is set in motion by the DA's failing basic quarantine procedures and then they resolve it without any particular angst or reflection on why they went wrong or how they could have done better OOOH FORESHADOWING!

    Even the Lion is at his most bland. Without Guilliman to snipe at and threaten, or Leman Russ to actively prove himself morally superior, or Night Haunter to do the "dark mirror" thing against, he's very one-dimensional. I don't often come across a literary character who seems to be 'phoning in their appearance, but... yep. Pretty much.


    Spoiler: Luther: First of the Fallen
    Show
    Let me get it perfectly straight that I came away from this novel really liking Luther. He's given a lot of depth and openly discusses his motivations leading to the schism, why he thought it was a good idea, and how in hindsight he realises just how badly he was deceived and what it has cost him. I am now genuinely intrigued to find out how this version of Luther is going to interact with the updated Codex: Dark Angels lore that says he is now leading a huge, secret army of Fallen, because the important fact revealed in the book is that he refused to fall to Chaos.
    Lies? Maybe. Self-delusion? Possibly. But the story clearly spells out what he had to do to formally sign up with Team Traitor, and he consciously doesn't do it. The ramifications of that are astounding to any DA fan.

    Unfortunately, Luther's characterisation is by far the best part of the novel. He interacts with a bunch of DA Chapter Masters who interrogate him at various points in history, and he tells them a story from his early life. Then they tragically take away the entirely wrong moral from the point he was trying to make, dooming them to death or failure and encouraging their successor to see Luther as even more of a trickster, liar, manipulator and traitor.

    Which ultimately means that we're back to the same problem as Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels, the other 30/Heresy-era DA novels; most of the book is spent discussing pre-Crusade events on Caliban, which are all irrelevant Aesops about knights riding on horses and talking in Ye Olde Englishe to each other. It's the opposite of Bolter porn, the GW syndrome of writing stories about super soldiers shooting and stabbing each other for endless identical pages - there's so little 30k/40k in the story that it's many steps closer to a Warhammer Fantasy novel than it is a Dark Angels one.

    If you're interested in the Dark Angel meta-plot about who the Fallen are, why the Unforgiven are so tragic, and what could be happening to the Dark Angels/Fallen in the next big shifts in the plot, you should definitely read this book with the caveat that you can probably skip the middle 10 pages of each Chapter and just go to the summary at the end where Luther finishes his story and his captor reacts to it. That's the interesting and relevant bit, and the rest is purple prose about stuff that barely even mattered before the Lion was discovered.


    Spoiler: Penitent
    Show
    Beta Bequin is still a huge Mary Sue, and I'm saying that about a character who appears in a book alongside Gregor Eisenhorn, Gideon Ravenor, Patience Kys, Harlon Nayl and a Tactical Squad of space marines made up by one of each Legion, Loyalist and Traitor alike. She is once again the subject of a long list of coincidences that just happen to go right for her, leading to a miraculous outcome that no one else could possibly have found... Even though her entire contribution is to literally stumble about in the dark and trip over it at one point.
    No, seriously, that happens - she gets lost in the dark, trips over something, and it gets her a naked mutant Blood Angel as a loyal servant thereafter. Not even joking.

    And yet, the bits which don't feature Beta are pretty great. The book goes to lengths to show why both Eisenhorn and Ravenor are both right in doing what they do, and are so very similar for it despite their protests and clashes... But ultimately both represent something which is bad for humanity, and that at best only one of them has an inkling to that but is so thoroughly trapped by the situation that he can't do anything about it. "There needs to be a third option" is hinted at, by way of Beta herself, and similarly comes into play later towards the end....

    Speaking of which, the reveal at the end of the book sent chills down my spine though, I will admit. How we got to that reveal happens in a typically "Bequin" manner (she accidentally meets a blind, drunk guy in a bar and he later turns out to be a psychic super-mathematician who also build a telescope that can see into the warp so he can use it to break a super-secret unbreakable code for her) but the twist itself immediately made me want to read 3 more books to try and figure out just what it all means and how it got there in the first place.

    The meta-story and the implications for the 40k universe featured in this book are bigger and better than it has any right to be, and makes up for quite a lot of purple prose and lazy coincidences that are used to get us from Point A to point B. It's a lot like the new Star Wars trilogy, in a way - lots of great set-pieces and individual lines of dialogue, strung together by implausible happenstance and unfortunately whiny exposition. Like the Star Wars trilogy, I'm glad that I experienced it, but I'm not in a rush to go back and see it again.


    Bottom line: GW still can't make heresy-era Dark Angels interesting, and Dan Abnett may have earned a reprieve. For now.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2021-05-24 at 08:27 AM.
    ~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
    RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
    17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
    Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation

  28. - Top - End - #688
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Cathay has been revealed for WH3 and with it comes a bunch of retcons, as to be expected.

    The Dragon Emperor is know confirmed to be an actually dragon, and not just any dragon. He and his consort, the Moon Empress, are immortal dragons who have always ruled Cathay (except maybe that Monkey King incident that remains unmentioned), and have been around since before the Old Ones arrived. Not only that but they are said to be as powerful as most of the gods.

    So what does someone that powerful do? Apparently sit around the Celestial city all day nasal gazing. They aren't playable and instead that falls to their children, more immortal dragons who can assume human form and rule various parts of the Empire. They must have been asleep when the End Times happened as well...

    GW actually stated out their units using 8th ed rules and they are described as having a stalwart, hardy frontline with incredible ranged firepower, while being slow and easy to flank. Sounds like dwarves, but unlike dwarves they also get cavalry, flying cav, dragons, giant terracotta warriors and flying Chinese lanterns with guns onboard.

  29. - Top - End - #689
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I've been catching up on my reading lately, thanks to a sudden drafting of GW novels added to Audible and GW themselves deigning to finally sell me some of the stuff that I've been asking for in the last year, so let's do a couple of super-fast book reviews.

    Spoilers, ahoy!

    Spoiler: The Primarchs: Lion El'Johnson
    Show
    Dull, irrelevant, and the DA's come off unfavourably as Marty Stu's.

    The premise is that the Blood Angels conquer-... sorry, "brought to Compliance" a world that was inhabited by psychic Body Snatchers who possessed human hosts and ate their souls, leaving them dull-witted, passionless and servitor-like. The BA's thought that they had exterminated the xenos, but it turns out that they missed some so the DA's are sent to quell a minor rebellion and refortify the planet while they figure all of this out - by which point, Xenos infiltrators have made it aboard the DA fleet and started another rebellion while the Astartes are stuck down below.

    And that's about it. The Lion doesn't even turn up until about halfway through the book, at which point he commends his XO on having done a really good job before telling him to double all the guards and build twice as many fortresses. He then has an extended monologue at the planet telling it that he's going to kill it and tame it for the Emperor... and then he does. There are no long-term ramifications, no other legions or Primarchs are involved, it's just a very long tale about Dark Angels slowly pacifying a planet because they're so great and really REALLY good at doing their job, you guys....

    There's some interesting lore in there about how the Dark Angels are perceived by the Emperor. While the Space Wolves are the Emperor's executioners, and the World Eaters are the Emperor's butchers, the Dark Angels are the guys you send to just up and genocide a culture. Their 'thing' is that they are just the best at scouring all life from a world with the minimum amount of effort or fuss, and that is how they earned most of their accolades, and what's more, the Lion is completely okay with this - that is terrifying and also great at the same time.

    But the story is a slog; 300 pages of telling us how great the Dark Angels are and how flawless the Lion is, and then some random never-seen before, never-see-again xenos pops up and gets blown up a lot. Nobody looks good because the whole plot is set in motion by the DA's failing basic quarantine procedures and then they resolve it without any particular angst or reflection on why they went wrong or how they could have done better OOOH FORESHADOWING!

    Even the Lion is at his most bland. Without Guilliman to snipe at and threaten, or Leman Russ to actively prove himself morally superior, or Night Haunter to do the "dark mirror" thing against, he's very one-dimensional. I don't often come across a literary character who seems to be 'phoning in their appearance, but... yep. Pretty much.
    Change a few names and it sounds like a Deathwatch story.

    Which reminds me, is there an acceptable Deathwatch novel out there?

  30. - Top - End - #690
    Titan in the Playground
     
    LeSwordfish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

    I hear excellent things about Deathwatch by Steve Parker, though note that it's fairly old and predates a lot of the modern deathwatch lore.
    - Avatar by LCP -

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •