Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

[Wraith]

Change a few names and it sounds like a Deathwatch story.

It would have been better as a DW story, to be honest. Have some random Chapter get infiltrated by a mind-controlling xenos and then send the DW into their battle barge to clean up the mess, it would have been great.

For it to be the Dark Angels at the peak of their pre-Heresy power, though? It just makes them look like idiots.

Which reminds me, is there an acceptable Deathwatch novel out there?

The Last Son of Dorn by Gareth Armstrong it pretty good - it's broadly about the founding of the Deathwatch during the War of the Beast. The biggest downside is that it's book 10 out of 12 so you might miss a lot of the build up if you jump straight into it.

I've heard that Storm of Damocles is okay. That's all though - damned by faint praise, perhaps, but a double-feature with DW and the White Scars if you're into that.

[thethird]

I hear excellent things about Deathwatch by Steve Parker, though note that it's fairly old and predates a lot of the modern deathwatch lore.

I really enjoyed those, I really enjoy Deathwatch in general though, but those were great. It doesn't focus only on first founding chapters (which to me is a good thing) and has a Death Spectres Librarian, a Lamenters Dreadnought, and an Exorcist marine (as an example).

[Drasius]

Which reminds me, is there an acceptable Deathwatch novel out there?

Read this a couple of years ago and loved it, almost every single story in there was good.

Reading that led to me reading this:



Which I also loved and had a very high ratio of good stories.

Highly recommend both for someone keen on deathwatch stuff.

If you like Talon Squad, get you some more with this one:

[Cheesegear]

I'll second pretty much everything.
I will say that Steve Parker knows a thing or two about military fiction. I think he owns and/or runs a gym, too. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Steve was ex-military, or at least hangs around people that are. I'll recommend all of his Deathwatch stories, and most of his other ones, too.

[Wraith]

I'll second pretty much everything.
I will say that Steve Parker knows a thing or two about military fiction. I think he owns and/or runs a gym, too. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Steve was ex-military, or at least hangs around people that are. I'll recommend all of his Deathwatch stories, and most of his other ones, too.

I went looking to check this, because I realised that apart from Dan Abnett and ADB I don't know anything about the 40k authors that I particularly enjoy and that felt like a disservice to them.

Purely as a matter of interest, there are TWO Steve Parkers who make a living as fiction authors. One of them spent 20 years in the London Metropolitan Police before retiring due to injury and turned his hobby of writing into a 'retirement' career, and the other one has a degree in Zoology, worked in the Natural History Museum and has written a bunch of stuff about human physiology, animal conservation and the protection of endangered species.

And because the universe has a sense of humour, it's the latter who writes the 40k books. Turns out the other guy writes a bunch of hard-boiled police procedural stuff with titles like The Dying Breath and The Child Behind The Wall which sounds like he should be writing about dystopian superhumans but... doesn't.

"Our" Steve Parker is also a bit of a recluse - he doesn't have a twitter account and his website hasn't been online in around a decade or so, he just wants to be left alone to write books and go to the gym a few times per week. He definitely sounds like One Of Us. The more you know.

[Renegade Paladin]

[Cheesegear]

A models company.

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

[Avaris]

A models company.

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

None of which are directly produced by GW, or really take any design effort away from them. The production of these has no impact on the models or the rules.

That being the case, while they’re mostly not a thing that appeals to me one bit (though I quite like the Squig), I don’t really see any problem with them existing for the benefit of people who do like them.

[LeSwordfish]

can't believe disney's spending all their time making star wars lego instead of more star wars films

[Wraith]

GW (not-so-)slowly turning into Krusty the Klown - they were funny once, but are fast becoming just a face that can be slapped onto any old tat and sold as 'merchandise'. Take THAT, reference to a show from 1998!

Christ, I'm old....

[Cheesegear]

GW (not-so-)slowly turning into Krusty the Klown - they were funny once, but are fast becoming just a face that can be slapped onto any old tat and sold as 'merchandise'. Take THAT, reference to a show from 1998!

Christ, I'm old....

This.
Wraith gets it.

It's about GW becoming an IP warehouse, and diversifying diluting the brand. It's like they looked at 1d4chan, and said 'If that's what people like, that's what we'll do, too.'
No, idiots. 1d4chan is the counter-culture.

When the mainstream tries to get in on the counter-culture it becomes, well...Forced memes. It's like when GW tried to get in on the joke with Primaris Lieutenants. No. It's too late. You actually did it. You can't pretend it's an ironic joke, now, because it's actually real.

Of course, ruining the counter-culture can potentially strengthen your brand. Potentially.

[Platinius]

GW (not-so-)slowly turning into Krusty the Klown - they were funny once, but are fast becoming just a face that can be slapped onto any old tat and sold as 'merchandise'. Take THAT, reference to a show from 1998!

Christ, I'm old....

But, but, I remember the joke like it was yesterday
When did I get so old?^^

[The Glyphstone]

Does anyone here actually have a W+ subscription to comment on the stuff that actually is there?

[Wraith]

LeSwordfish did, as they posted in the main 40k thread, and they cancelled it at the start of this month. To quote:

I cancelled my Warhammer+ Subscription - ultimately, it wasn't for me. The battle reports were fun but there are plenty of free ones out there, the painting guides were way above my level, and I'm not interested in the archives while they're lore-only.

By the sounds of it, it's mostly an archive of stuff that you can already find on Youtube or Lexicanum all put together. If you want that stuff, it's probably great... But I know where to find it for free, so... *shrug*

If you like, find out for yourself: 2 weeks of Warhammer+ free if you sign up before November 7th

When did I get so old?^^

Yes.

[Avaris]

Does anyone here actually have a W+ subscription to comment on the stuff that actually is there?

I do, have primarily watched the animation series, which are fairly decent. The painting guides are pretty good, but I haven't watched the battle reports at all as I don't find those interesting.

My advice is to very much think about which elements actually have potential value for you. In my case, I already subscribed to the 40k app, and kind of wanted the miniature you get for a year, so figured I may as well subscribe. I feel the extra promotions and competitions, and the animation, are a nice bonus. But I wouldn't pay for it JUST for the animations, or any other content on its own: it's only because I feel interested in several components that it's worth it.

[Grim Portent]

Working on my Black Templars has gotten me wondering again about what normal chapters of space marines do with neophytes that are on the way to being primaris marines. Has it been stated anywhere what most chapters do with their neophytes these days? Do they still have to run around in carapace armour for a few decades like old fashioned scouts or like the BTs neophytes still do, or do they jump straight to power armour?

[LeSwordfish]

I asked a year or so back and there was no clear answer yet - there might be something in the newest Codex? But I suspect honestly GW haven't decided for sure yet.

[hamishspence]

Working on my Black Templars has gotten me wondering again about what normal chapters of space marines do with neophytes that are on the way to being primaris marines. Has it been stated anywhere what most chapters do with their neophytes these days? Do they still have to run around in carapace armour for a few decades like old fashioned scouts or like the BTs neophytes still do, or do they jump straight to power armour?

Gaius Pollandus's career in the second iteration of the Space Marine codex released for 8e, included time as a Scout, prior to his getting Power Armour for the first time and becoming a Reiver.

[Renegade Paladin]

That is all.

[Silverraptor]

It looks like they changed the original sequel story. The Director of the first game said years back that the sequel he planned was more infiltration like and on the run from the Inquisition. Looks like instead Titus may be on a penitent crusade straight against the Tyranids. That's what I'm guessing based on the trailer.

[Artanis]

Man, the new Dynasty Warriors: Grimdark looks awesome

[The Glyphstone]

And on the complete opposite end of the tonal scale comes this:

[Drasius]

And on the complete opposite end of the tonal scale comes this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZZ9_aW0ERk

Orkish Metal Slug, neat! I wonder why it took this long to happen?

[Rizhail]

It looks like they changed the original sequel story. The Director of the first game said years back that the sequel he planned was more infiltration like and on the run from the Inquisition. Looks like instead Titus may be on a penitent crusade straight against the Tyranids. That's what I'm guessing based on the trailer.

I think the sequel is taking place a lot later than the first one. Titus has got more service studs now, and he’s gone through the whole Primaris thingy (he and the others in the trailer are wearing the newest armor and carrying the automatic versions of the primaris bolters). They may just drop the whole Inquisition bit with Titus by skipping the time it would have happened.

[Grim Portent]

Can't remember if I've brought this up here before, but I'm planning to try and arrange a Dark Heresy game, probably a one shot, using the Curse of Solomon plot idea from the Disciples of the Dark Gods sourcebook as the basis. But I'm struggling to settle on a candidate for what the Curse actually is and figure I should bounce my current thoughts off people.


Basic premise of the Curse of Solomon is that the Hive World Solomon is dying the long slow death all Hive Worlds face in the end. It's natural resources are gone, it's infrastructure crumbling, it's people overpopulated. Solomon shudders and groans, riddled by strife and sickness. Among the vast industrial wastelands, a sea of pipes, maintenance corridors and crude dwellings, shrouded in darkness as most Underhives are, people vanish all the time. The locals attribute these dissapearances to a curse, something that exists among them, that preys on them in dark alleys, in the dying light of lamps and in the gloom amongst the pipes. Some worship it as a foul god, offering human sacrifices to ward off their own demise. The Inquisition largely dismisses this belief as superstitious attempts to rationalise the miserable life that plagues the lower classes of Solomon. Murder, accidents and so forth are hardly uncommon. Some among the Ordos believe there to be some truth to the local beliefs, though they propose different possible explanations for what might actually be at fault.


There's the obvious candidates for a monster that kills people in the dark, daemons, lictors, mandrakes and so on, but I want to go for something less linked to the wider galaxy.

Ideas I have atm;

Spoiler: Who you gonna call?

Show

A mass haunting event, affecting much of the planet. Those who have died in darkness, in fear, in loneliness and so on aren't gone. They remain as an embodiment of the misery of the dying Hive World. Manifesting in the dark, as thick foul smelling liquid that drips from pipes, oozes from grates or bleeds from walls, which coalesces drop by drop into the undead visages of prior victims. These manifestations gather around their prey in great numbers, dragging them into the deepest dark, squeezing them into pipes too small for the human body, passing them through vents and grates, or pulling them body and soul into the walls and floor with the sound of cracking bone and bursting soft tissues. The curse cannot be removed from the world, though it can be defended against to a limited extent, with light, hope and courage.

Spoiler: Faith and fear.

Show

An assassin. An agent of death and murder, adherent of a censured Death Cult which has largely been neutralised. Augmented and equipped to pass unseen in the dark, travel through tight spaces, and driven by the belief that Solomon can only be saved from it's torment by the blood sacrifice of it's people to the Emperor. Bionic joints allow their limbs to contort, twist, compress and rotate, a bodyglove renders them into a sleek black shadow invisible to most scans, and implanted weaponry enables them to flense, pulp, break and shatter their victims into little more than slurry contained in a sack of their own flayed skin.

Spoiler: Bloodlust and corruption.

Show

A xenos predator placed there by the Beast House, implanted with bionics that record it's killings, driven by instinct to prowl in the dark and prey on the weak. Recordings of it's hunts are sold by the Beast House, or shared with their blood hungry patrons. I imagine a creature akin to a feline serpent, like a leopard stretched out, hunting people and taking their corpses to the high places of the lower hives to feed on them in secret.

Spoiler: Indifferent doom.

Show

An architectural murder machine. In the early days of Solomon it was found to be the site of a Dark Age facility, one that could not be moved nor dissasembled. The facility was built to process human remains into resources, creating a more palatable and nutritious version of corpse starch, as well as other resources. The Imperium was delighted to have such an asset, but as is often the case it was eventually lost. Forgotten in the deep dark pits of the world. But the facility hungers, it needs to produce corpse starch, to feed the swollen populace of Solomon. Programming in the ancient cogitator banks that rule the facility dictate that it must feed, so it may nurse mankind on it's own recycled remains. But Solomon's population is vast, so very vast, and the Imperium no longer feeds corpses to the facility, it must hunt and so it finds the wretched, the lost, the dead and the dying. Mysterious techology abducts the living as readily as the dead, feeding them into the hoppers of a vast abattoir, a network of machines that break down and reconstitute organic feedstock into resources, which are then dispensed through a network of dispensers, doling out a ration of food, fuel and crude textiles to the populace. An unsustainable cycle, drawing out the agonising end of the world.

Spoiler: Hope and despair.

Show

Monstrous hope. Superstition, paranoia and desperation have driven elements of the impoverished masses of Solomon offer sacrifices to the Beast, but those sacrifices do nothing. People die, they dissapear, they dwell in pain and misery and their desperate attempts to assauge their suffering did nothing. Then someone, or several someone's decided to try and make people think it worked. If your prospective sacrifice to the darkness is found having died of dehydration still shackled to a pipe, then your sacrifice meant nothing. If the person is gone, lost to the dark and the unnamed horrors in it, it at least gives the hope that it might have meant something. So all across Solomon there are those who have looked into the eyes of their frightened children, held their lovers as they weeped for a futile sacrifice, and come to the conclusion that if there is no beast, then someone must take up that role to ease the burdened minds of those who cannot face the horror that is Solomon without something to blame and ward off. These wretched individuals skulk into the dark with knives, cudgels and other tools of murder, killing those whose death's would be blamed on the curse, because making the Beast of Solomon real is all they can do to convince their loved ones that they can do anything to protect themselves against a cruel universe.

[The Glyphstone]

Are you limiting yourself to just one? Having there be a 'real' Beast of Solomon in one part of the hive, combined with the monstrous hope of copycats across other regions as stories spread, could make for a very nice double fake-out.

[Wraith]

They all work. The only one I'd suggest needs more detail would be the first one, Who Ya Gonna Call? based on the last line: "The curse cannot be removed from the world, though it can be defended against to a limited extent".

I read that and what I find myself thinking is, the party can't fix the problem, and that's a bit of a let-down for the end of a one-shot. I think that needs a stronger resolution, even if it's something like they can seal away the ghost this time, but it will eventually return.

Are you limiting yourself to just one? Having there be a 'real' Beast of Solomon in one part of the hive, combined with the monstrous hope of copycats across other regions as stories spread, could make for a very nice double fake-out.

I agree, that would be interesting - the party find a bunch of serial killers who are trying to 'feed' their supposed 'master', they deal with them, and on the way home they get jumped by an actual beast who was also feeding on the little cult and now needs a new food-source. Classic horror movie move.

[Grim Portent]

My thought is that the plight of Solomon is meant to be a very bleak situation even by 40k standards, a lot of the potential issues can't be fixed by a filing clerk, a mechanic, an ex-soldier and a lunatic with magic powers that make their eyes bleed, or even by an actual Inquisitor and a squad of Grey Knights.

My idea with the ghost scenario is that the locals can't really be helped, though one or two might be saved from the darkness for a time by the actions of the PCs, the main beneficiary is ultimately the imperial officials who have to enter the areas afflicted by the curse who now have some knowledge of how to protect themselves. People suffer, but the wheels of the empire continue to turn and you might have allowed a few people some brief respite from their dread, and sometimes that's the best you can hope for in 40k.


The idea of having an actual Beast and a group of serial killers at the same time is a fun one, though I'm not sure which order of events would be better. The beast is killed but the deaths continue, leading to the discovery of the human element, or the human element is used to trick the players that there is no beast, until it strikes again and is ultimately confronted.

I do have a soft spot for the Beast House angle I have in Blood and Corruption, because the discovery that the beast was put there, and is broadcasting what it sees to someone leaves a thread to pull on in future one shots or a campaign. If I mixed that with the Hope and Despair angle, so that the presence of the Beast caused suffering on a level far exceeding it's actual actions by driving others to become killers it would make the Beast House in turn come across as truly vile.

[The Glyphstone]

I think the fake out is better with the initial answer of serial killer cultists blindly worshipping a non-existent Beast, then springing the actual Beast (which the cultists might not even have known was real) in the second act. And if it's all for the sport of decadent nobles from the Beast House, that makes it all the better.

[Grim Portent]

I think the fake out is better with the initial answer of serial killer cultists blindly worshipping a non-existent Beast, then springing the actual Beast (which the cultists might not even have known was real) in the second act. And if it's all for the sport of decadent nobles from the Beast House, that makes it all the better.

Now I am really getting ideas I like flowing, though I fear my thoughts are straying down a path of very dark subject matter.*

I'm getting an idea of an organised cult, split into a few branches across Solomon, which claims to divine who the beast wants to kill next, and abducts those people to be left in the dark as a sacrifice to appease the monster. In truth the cult is a fabrication, first started as a way to deal with the personal problems of it's founders, gain power over others, punish the wicked, or to bring hope of salvation to their desperate communities and the lie just kept growing. Sort of like the Salem Witch Trials and the corruption that happened there.

Different areas now have their own local branches of the cult, founded by splinter groups seeking to spread their influence further through Solomon for one reason or another while getting out from under the thumb of their parent cult. Now the inner circles of the cults murder most of the sacrifices in secret to lend weight to their shared lie, and have done so for quite some time. They've been doing it so long they don't believe there to be a real Beast, even though one has since been brought to Solomon.

The true Beast was and is man, it's cruelty, selfishness and fear. But Solomon is ripe for abuse by greater powers, and so many years ago the Beast House presence on the planet released a voracious predator, one cunning and cruel, to stalk the streets and kill for the sadistic pleasure and profit of it's masters. The beast is implanted with experimental bionics, everything it sees and hears being transmitted to criminal safehouses run by the House, the recordings then being sold as perverse entertainment, just another facet of the vile but often banal evil of the Beast House.

Since the release of the Beast the House has begun infiltrating the cults, wth the goal of manipulating who gets offered up as a sacrifice. On a superficial level it's low level imperial officials who present an obstacle to the criminal organisations own goals, but on a more fundamental level the victims are those who suit the morbid desires of the Houses target audience. What was initially a sacrifice pool consisting largely of 'acceptable targets' like addicts, criminals, mutants, abusive spouses and public nuisances has now become largely children and teenagers, young women and other vulnerable targets that the Beast House can monetise, selling recordings of their monstrous pet killing people to deviant fetishists across the Calixis sector.



*Though maybe not as dark as an idea I had for an embryo farm gimmick run by an excommunicated tech priest who was in league with the worst parts of the Inquisition, with women being turned into docile pseudo-servitors to be used as living incubators in which to grow clones and farmed embryos with a lower rate of mutation and failure than in a purely mechanical and soulless incubator, who are then provided to the Inquisition to use as agents, or fodder for experiments by groups like the Xanthites, Phaenonites or the Thorians. Inspired by the Daemonculaba of course.