Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

[Silverraptor]

Insofar as the pylons also suppress all other psychic ability, yes. If you bathed the entire galaxy in the aura of a single giant pylon, it would solve a lot of problems - no more daemons, no more Tyranid hive-mind, no gestalt Ork Waagh-field - but the same effect would be doom to the other civilizations.

Humans would survive individually, but there'd be no Navigators, Astropaths or Astronomicon so the Imperium would disappear, and then the lone planets would be easy pickings for non-daemon Traitor Astartes, pirates, Necrons, etc.
It would also suck to be an Aeldari, as their entire race are latently psychic so it would be like partially lobotomising them unless they either went to live in the webway or otherwise left the galaxy.

The only people who probably wouldn't be significantly affected would be the Tau - and even then only probably, as we're not quite sure how Ethereals' aura of influence works, and if it's even vaguely psychic or psyker-adjacent (some sources have shown it get disrupted by Pariahs, after all) then it could potentially trigger the end of the Greater Good and thus cause Tau society to collapse unless someone like Farsight could grab the reigns.

Interestingly, I actually had a similar dream about that. It was silly, over the top, and contradictory to numerous things warhammer 40k, but I think I'll share in case anyone would like to enjoy a fun read (Please keep in mind, this is a dream and any established settings or rules go out the unconscious window).

Spoiler: Warhammer 40k Dream

Show

Basically, I orchestrated (I know. But it is a dream and you are usually the main character in a dream) a planet completely run by Necrons to try and "Fix" the warp to turn it back into the relatively calm state of the realm of souls before the first war between the Necrons and the Old Ones occurred. I managed to convince several Necron tribes? Tombs? Groups to work together to cover this planet with Necron technology to both beat back the warp, produce an extraordinary power source, and to be heavily guarded by Necron troops. The first part of the plan was to cover the planet in essentially warp canceling aura to prevent demons and other warp influence entities from interfering with my brilliant plan(tm). When the aura was successfully turned on, one of the Necron Nobles or whatever asked why I wasn't being effected. To which my dream self replied that it was because I wasn't part of that universe and therefore wasn't connected to the warp in any way to be effected by the aura. Also, this is why Tzeentch hasn't acted in anyway to stop the planet's construction because I wasn't part of the warp so he wouldn't have access to the input of thoughts coming from me during the design process and the rest of the planet were soulless machines, so no souls and thoughts could give away this plan was in motion (Complete BS I know, but remember dream mode and dreams are weird).

Anyways, we turn on the planet Aura and it's successfully submerged and the warp influence is successfully beaten back. Now we can enact stage 2, where we setup a large Obelisk Spire. The plan is to engage it and it will fire typical Necron warp diffusing energy out until a certain point in space, in which case it will actively tear through to the warp and begin dissipating it. Essentially what it was doing was erasing the thoughts, ideas, and potentially souls that have been left floating around in the warp since the beginning of time, with the goal of eventually erasing most of what was contained in the warp so the Galaxy could have its clean slate over again (and thereby, theoretically, eliminated the cause of warp storms, and even dissipate the eye of terror.) However, the amount of energy produced on the planet, most of it was powering the aura field keeping the warp at bay, so in further Necron technology fashion, the additional power needed was to be teleported in from other Necron Planet Fortresses that would produce the energy and teleport the energy itself in some way to the Obelisk planet. And of course I am over prepared so I have 3 times the number of planets I need to run this Obelisk at full power, so I turn on only 1/3 of the planets needed to begin the process. I then order the Obelisk powered up, but slowly increase the power in case any complications or effects occur. My dream self is also very anxious that this works because I have the worry that the moment this starts, the 4 chaos gods will immediately take notice that thoughts, ideas, emotions, and souls were suddenly starting to be erased from a singular point in the warp and start attracting their attention.

The Obelisk is turned on and as the green stream of light is projected into the sky, a sudden flash of color of green and the purplish glow of the warp appears in the sky like a second sun on this planet. I was told the readings were good and that they were slowly increasing the power. The stream got bigger and wider and the glow in the sky was becoming larger and more intense. Then when the power level was approaching the upper 80% level, I was alerted there was problems. Erasing the warp as we were doing was indeed creating a tear into the warp to which warp energy was escaping into real space. However, when we were at lower power, the warp energy quickly dispersed and became a non-issue. However, with the power level so high now, the tear was large enough that the warp energy was now reaching and bombarding the planet, to which the warp canceling aura was holding back, but the strain was increasing exponentially and the power levels were dropping dangerously to keep the aura going. In addition, the sudden erasure of thoughts and emotions was causing an imbalance in the warp, a "low pressure" if you will if you think about it in terms of weather, so a Warp storm was beginning to form around us, causing more warp energy to be expelled and hit the Aura. I quickly ordered the Obelisk power level to be lowered and call a couple more Necron fortress planets to begin power generation procedures and teleporting the excess energy to this planet. This takes a bit of time to do as I pace in tension. Then I receive a report that the situation is coming under control. When lowering the power level, the warp energies bombarding the planet lessened and the Aura fields come under less strain, at the same time the energy from the planets now newly supplying energy once again supplied a surplus of energy. After some quick redistribution of this energy to the Aura fields, any excess was transferred to the Spire and the power levels were once again increasing. Another planet or two turned on later, and the Spire was at full power with the chaos energies that were escaping from the rift being erased as they collided with the Aura around the planet. The sudden artificial warp storm side effect that was starting to rage was determined to be an ignoble issue since the Aura protected the planet from that turbulent energy and this was a result of the procedure anyways.

Everything seemed to be going well for a long time (remember, dream so some points seem to last on and on) until I was alerted that some things were approaching. Talking with the Higher Up Necrons, we concluded that we were indeed noticed by the Chaos Gods and we were anticipating the arrival of potential Chaos forces. Soon ships started appearing on the edge of the galaxy. While we couldn't determine the exact origin of the ships and who it was, it was pretty much suspected that it was chaos forces. As the battle alert status is issued around the planet, a massive anomaly appears in the long range sensors. With the input data of this huge object suddenly appearing, it was guessed almost immediately that this was a Space Hulk, probably sent from a chaos god, and it was on a collision course with the planet. Shortly thereafter, another couple of similar sized objects appeared in the galaxy, all on a collision course with the planet as well as dozens of ships that had warped in and all were approaching.

Orders were being issued, combat positions being manned all across the planet. Troops were being teleported in from the other fortress planets and the Necron forces were digging in for a fight. And then I woke up...

So yeah, just thought I'd share. Might have been a fun read, even though now that I'm awake I know that this dream violates a large number rules in the warhammer 40k universe, but I still found it to be an entertaining dream.

[BRC]

It would be fine if the timeline remained frozen. The galaxy is always doomed, right? But if time moves, and the Tyranid fleets only move in one direction, then either the Tyranids have to suffer an utterly unprecedented reversal or 40k ends.

A Radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor write "Gun That Can Kill The Hive-Mind" on a bolter, then puts that in a pod and sends it off to the biggest tyranid-adjacent Waaaaaugh that they can find.

They are executed for Heresy before they can finish writing "Gun That Kills The Chaos Gods" on a different bolter.


But seriously, the Scale of W40k is such that none of the "inevitable threats that spell certain doom" actually need to manifest. The Tyranids are always encroaching, the Necrons are always waking up, Chaos is always spreading. If they really need a reason to tie things up, Chaos puts all it's energy into opening up an new Eye of Terror, but accidentally does so in the path of the Tyranids, and over a dozen tomb-worlds, and the three groups just fight each other until GW decides that writing stories isn't helping them sell more plastic spacemen.

[noob]

A Radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor write "Gun That Can Kill The Hive-Mind" on a bolter, then puts that in a pod and sends it off to the biggest tyranid-adjacent Waaaaaugh that they can find.

They are executed for Heresy before they can finish writing "Gun That Kills The Chaos Gods" on a different bolter.


But seriously, the Scale of W40k is such that none of the "inevitable threats that spell certain doom" actually need to manifest. The Tyranids are always encroaching, the Necrons are always waking up, Chaos is always spreading. If they really need a reason to tie things up, Chaos puts all it's energy into opening up an new Eye of Terror, but accidentally does so in the path of the Tyranids, and over a dozen tomb-worlds, and the three groups just fight each other until GW decides that writing stories isn't helping them sell more plastic spacemen.

They would need to make the bolter really impressive looking for the orks to believe it.
Maybe they would grab a tank turret then add a lot of decorations to it instead?

[BRC]

They would need to make the bolter really impressive looking for the orks to believe it.
Maybe they would grab a tank turret then add a lot of decorations to it instead?

You make a valid point.

They tape 30 bolters to a basilisk, rig up a pair of flamers that shoot straight into the air, and then connect it all up to a big red button.

[Wraith]

I thought it was more-or-less canon that Ethereals used pheremones?

There was a book called Xenology which depicted the dissection of an Ethereal - it was found to have a crystal in its head that resembled something also used by a pheromone-using species normally found on the other side of the galaxy.

So they have that, but there are a lot of problems with it - If that's how "The Greater Good" works, how do Ethereals control Tau who are on a different spaceship to them? Or wearing helmets? How can a pheromone be disrupted by a Culexus Assassin (which happened) if it's not also psyker-ish? And does it matter than Xenology hasn't been in print for over a decade and never will be, because it's one of the so-called "heretic texts" that were printed for an old, obsolete edition?

I think that's the most concrete example, and ever since it's been more vague in order to account for similar inconsistencies. Ethereal mind-control Loyalty to the Greater Good just works, except when it doesn't.

So yeah, just thought I'd share. Might have been a fun read, even though now that I'm awake I know that this dream violates a large number rules in the warhammer 40k universe, but I still found it to be an entertaining dream.

Certainly an interesting premise, but unfortunately you have published it on the internet so now GW will soon be sending after you a lawyer and a large angry man with an ice-pick to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Silverraptor]

Certainly an interesting premise, but unfortunately you have published it on the internet so now GW will soon be sending after you a lawyer and a large angry man with an ice-pick to make sure it doesn't happen again.

So... what you're saying is my dream was an allegory for what is actually going to happen?

[Forum Explorer]

There was a book called Xenology which depicted the dissection of an Ethereal - it was found to have a crystal in its head that resembled something also used by a pheromone-using species normally found on the other side of the galaxy.

So they have that, but there are a lot of problems with it - If that's how "The Greater Good" works, how do Ethereals control Tau who are on a different spaceship to them? Or wearing helmets? How can a pheromone be disrupted by a Culexus Assassin (which happened) if it's not also psyker-ish? And does it matter than Xenology hasn't been in print for over a decade and never will be, because it's one of the so-called "heretic texts" that were printed for an old, obsolete edition?

I think that's the most concrete example, and ever since it's been more vague in order to account for similar inconsistencies. Ethereal mind-control Loyalty to the Greater Good just works, except when it doesn't.

It's one half cultural to be fair. Like, there isn't an Ethereal with every army. Most Tau just genuinely believe in the Greater Good, with the Ethereal's serving more to keep them on track of what the Greater Good actually is, rather than brute force mind controlling everyone.

From what I remember, the Culexus was able to effect drones which doesn't exactly make a bunch of sense. Mind you, that was still a really cool segment.

[noob]

There was a book called Xenology which depicted the dissection of an Ethereal - it was found to have a crystal in its head that resembled something also used by a pheromone-using species normally found on the other side of the galaxy.

So they have that, but there are a lot of problems with it - If that's how "The Greater Good" works, how do Ethereals control Tau who are on a different spaceship to them? Or wearing helmets? How can a pheromone be disrupted by a Culexus Assassin (which happened) if it's not also psyker-ish? And does it matter than Xenology hasn't been in print for over a decade and never will be, because it's one of the so-called "heretic texts" that were printed for an old, obsolete edition?

I think that's the most concrete example, and ever since it's been more vague in order to account for similar inconsistencies. Ethereal mind-control Loyalty to the Greater Good just works, except when it doesn't.



Certainly an interesting premise, but unfortunately you have published it on the internet so now GW will soon be sending after you a lawyer and a large angry man with an ice-pick to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Culexus assassins does not just counter the warp it also makes people feel at unease and try to forget the assassin.
The brain scrambling due to antiwarp might even be stronger on people who have a weak warp presence (or not I do not know) so maybe it is not because they are cut from the source but that their scrambled brains does behave very differently.

[LansXero]

It's one half cultural to be fair. Like, there isn't an Ethereal with every army. Most Tau just genuinely believe in the Greater Good, with the Ethereal's serving more to keep them on track of what the Greater Good actually is, rather than brute force mind controlling everyone.

From what I remember, the Culexus was able to effect drones which doesn't exactly make a bunch of sense. Mind you, that was still a really cool segment.

The Culexus didnt affect the drone, the drones shorted themselves because they couldnt process what they were reading, but thats probably due to the assassin's gear instead of their pariahness. Tau stuff doesnt parse imperial tech correctly, because it has weird warpy bits or fleshy bits

[Destro_Yersul]

A Radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor write "Gun That Can Kill The Hive-Mind" on a bolter, then puts that in a pod and sends it off to the biggest tyranid-adjacent Waaaaaugh that they can find.

They are executed for Heresy before they can finish writing "Gun That Kills The Chaos Gods" on a different bolter.

New headcanon: 'Enter the Gungeon' is secretly a 40k game, and takes place on a gun-themed daemon world somewhere in the eye of terror.

[Tvtyrant]

Doesn't the whole Pariah Nexus thing demonstrate that "the Necrons beating Chaos with pylons" is absolutely disastrous for everyone other than Necrons, in the Pylon-covered area?

I mean, insofar as they decided that it would relatively recently. How was Cadia the heartland of the Guard while being covered in Pylons if they turn off your brain?

[Artanis]

I mean, insofar as they decided that it would relatively recently. How was Cadia the heartland of the Guard while being covered in Pylons if they turn off your brain?

As inconsistent as that would be, it would actually be one of the easier things to explain away in the WH40K setting. You could just say that jacking up the power to galaxy-spanning levels would fry people, whereas just enough anti-warp juice to cover a few light-years wouldn't really do much. And that's before you start thinking up explanations that involve qualitative or situational differences between the two *shrug*

[Avaris]

I mean, insofar as they decided that it would relatively recently. How was Cadia the heartland of the Guard while being covered in Pylons if they turn off your brain?

The pylons on Cadia are not the same design as those in the Pariah Nexus. They have a similar origin, but the new ones are a very recent innovation following the return of the Silent King.

[Clistenes]

The pylons on Cadia are not the same design as those in the Pariah Nexus. They have a similar origin, but the new ones are a very recent innovation following the return of the Silent King.

So I guess reverse-engineering the old Cadian Pylons and using them against Chaos is still a viable plan...

But I still find it weird that the new Pylons can't shut off psychic powers entirely but they can normal people cathatonic (eventually).

[Borgh]

A Soul != a psyker's power. Souls are material in origin: a human brain can broach the warp slightly and influence it, and receive vigour and inspiration from it.

A psyker takes that same broach but widens it and focuses the power that comes through in very different ways.

So the pylons are like hairs in a drain: the shower won't empty as easily. Now if you put a pressure washer on it those hairs can protest all they want but the water is going through.

[noob]

Does anyone suspects Primaris marines to be infiltrated orks?
They are bigger than regular marines and are a tech introduced recently to the imperium while most techpriests would probably oppose things like manipulating the designs of space marines which suggests that orks infiltrated humans deep.
It would explain why the operation will never fail for important characters: the operation is just killing the individual and putting a disguised orc in place of it.
And the operation failing is just that a marine that was not important got nosy or that some orks wanted a brawl and killed a marine then they say "the operation to turn that marine into a primaris marine failed" to hide their infiltration(that is brutal cunning or cunning brutality)

[Cheesegear]

Does anyone suspects Primaris marines to be infiltrated orks?

100%

They are bigger than regular marines and are a tech introduced recently to the imperium while most techpriests would probably oppose things like manipulating the designs of space marines which suggests that orks infiltrated humans deep.

It would explain why the operation will never fail for important characters: the operation is just killing the individual and putting a disguised orc in place of it.

That's what the purple camoflage is for. They never suspect a thing.

And the operation failing is just that a marine that was not important got nosy or that some orks wanted a brawl and killed a marine then they say "the operation to turn that marine into a primaris marine failed" to hide their infiltration(that is brutal cunning or cunning brutality)

Obviously.
So what you want to do now, is put your Orks on the table, and claim you're using Space Marines' rules, and everyone should be fine with it.
If they're not fine with it, they count as forfeiting and you win the game.

[noob]

So what you want to do now, is put your Orks on the table, and claim you're using Space Marines' rules, and everyone should be fine with it.

I would not do that for the simple reason that only disguised orcs with the stats and appearance corresponding to primaris marines (and thus represented by primaris marine figurines) follows space marine rules.(it was a refluffing discussion not a discussion about changing the rules)

But I have a rules question now: if primaris marines could use ork rules(in replacement of marine rules) while in an ork army would they be more overpowered in that case?

[snowblizz]

Obviously.
So what you want to do now, is put your Orks on the table, and claim you're using Space Marines' rules, and everyone should be fine with it.
If they're not fine with it, they count as forfeiting and you win the game.

A friend of mine used to play an Ork Armoured company list. All the vehicles were looted imperial vehicles, the troops, Orks armed with lasguns and Imperial Guard helmets.

He would start each game at tournaments "these are not Orks, I say again NOT Orks, just Imperial guardsmen, T3 the works, I'm just doing this for the looks". No one ever had any complaints after getting over the initial shock of how many tanks the Ork army had.

[BRC]

I would not do that for the simple reason that only disguised orcs with the stats and appearance corresponding to primaris marines (and thus represented by primaris marine figurines) follows space marine rules.(it was a refluffing discussion not a discussion about changing the rules)

But I have a rules question now: if primaris marines could use ork rules(in replacement of marine rules) while in an ork army would they be more overpowered in that case?

The Emprah's Boyz.

An Orcish Waaaugh that is convinced that the Space Marines "Get all da best Fights". They came to this conclusion after an incident where the forces of chaos turned away from fighting the Orcs for control of a planet to focus their efforts on a space marine strikeforce that had arrived in-system to retrieve some relics from one of the system's moons. The Orcs have gathered all the information they can find about space marines and the Imperium in general in order to perpetuate their "Kunning Ruse", under the command of "Chapta Boss Prime-Orc", the things they have learned
1) It is very important for everybody to be wearing the same color, except for Grots, who can wear green, and be referred to as "Serfs" or "Grotsmen"
2) Before engaging any Imperial forces, it is very important to point at them and loudly shout the word "Hair-Assey!" They have determined that Humans need to do this before they're allowed to fight each other.
3) Space Marines follow something called a "Code-Axe", and care a lot about what this "Code-Axe" says. Chapta Boss Prime-Orc has crafted his own Codex by taking the biggest choppa he can find, and then also stapling a megaphone to it. This way, the entire Chapter can be guided by the Code-Axe.

[Cheesegear]

An Orcish Waaaugh that is convinced that the Space Marines "Get all da best Fights". They came to this conclusion after an incident where the forces of chaos turned away from fighting the Orcs for control of a planet to focus their efforts on a space marine strikeforce that had arrived in-system to retrieve some relics from one of the system's moons.

That is when the Orks decided that they were Space Marines.
After realising that their Faction sucked and would never be good whilst Space Marines had 2 Wounds and a 3+ save, and also realising that the win conditions of the game no longer suited hordes, Orks decided that they were Space Marines, and so they were.

Using randumb bulls* logic that was phased out of the fluff decades ago; Orks believed it, and so it was. Anyone who claimed that they weren't Space Marines, was simply 'oppressing their hobby', and thus not welcome in the Galaxy, and the Orks refused to fight anyone, unless that Faction conceded that the Orks were, in fact, Space Marines.

The end.

[Platinius]

I have a question:

How big is the difference between a Primaris and a regular Space Marine? (And I don't mean equipment, I mean biology)

[Grim Portent]

I have a question:

How big is the difference between a Primaris and a regular Space Marine? (And I don't mean equipment, I mean biology)

Three new organs and roughly a foot in height.

One 'organ,' the Sinew Coils, is the implantation of metal cables into the muscles to make them stronger.

The second, the Magnificat, enhances the function of some of the other organs to make them tougher, stronger and taller. It probably also enhances things like the acid spit to a degree.

The third, the Belisarian Furnace, is basically a super adrenal gland. When a Primaris suffers substantial damage the gland releases various combat stimms and enhances the already rapid healing of the Space Marine. It takes a while to be ready to do it again though.


This results in them being generally stronger and more durable*, but not particularly faster or endowed with better senses. The Furnace in theory gives them a combat boost, but since it only kicks in after major trauma it probably just brings them back to baseline effectiveness until it wears off.

[Wraith]

I have a question:

How big is the difference between a Primaris and a regular Space Marine? (And I don't mean equipment, I mean biology)

Picture for approximate scale. Ignore the 30k/Horus Heresy miniatures, 40k Primarchs are monstrously sized compared to Space Marines.

Do not ask questuions about how characters like Azrael can wear Lion El'Johnson's helmet, or how Dante can wear Sanguinius' deathmask, without looking like a Funko Pop. Questions are extra-heresy.

[BRC]

Picture for approximate scale. Ignore the 30k/Horus Heresy miniatures, 40k Primarchs are monstrously sized compared to Space Marines.

Do not ask questuions about how characters like Azrael can wear Lion El'Johnson's helmet, or how Dante can wear Sanguinius' deathmask, without looking like a Funko Pop. Questions are extra-heresy.

Can I ask how The Emperor managed to live incognito for millennia, subtly influencing human affairs despite being, by my rough estimate, approximately 15 feet tall?

Is The God Emperor of Mankind Bigfoot?

[JNAProductions]

Can I ask how The Emperor managed to live incognito for millennia, subtly influencing human affairs despite being, by my rough estimate, approximately 15 feet tall?

Is The God Emperor of Mankind Bigfoot?

He can change his size.

[BRC]

He can change his size.

This does not rule out him being Bigfoot.

[JNAProductions]

This does not rule out him being Bigfoot.

Fair enough. :P

[Tvtyrant]

Can I ask how The Emperor managed to live incognito for millennia, subtly influencing human affairs despite being, by my rough estimate, approximately 15 feet tall?

Is The God Emperor of Mankind Bigfoot?

My understanding was always he was smaller then some of the primarchs, and physically weaker. He has to cheat to beat Leman Russ in a fist fight (power armor + power fist vs bare hands) and is the same height as Horus (who is not the tallest primarch.)

[comicshorse]

Can I ask how The Emperor managed to live incognito for millennia, subtly influencing human affairs despite being, by my rough estimate, approximately 15 feet tall?

Is The God Emperor of Mankind Bigfoot?

Personal head cannon. The Emperor is 5"4. He just uses his amazing psychic power to make everybody believe he's really tall and impressive !