Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion XVII: Call Necrosius, The Old Thread Is Dead!

[noob]

Personal head cannon. The Emperor is 5"4. He just uses his amazing psychic power to make everybody believe he's really tall and impressive !

Reverse headcannon: the emperor of mankind is 1 kilometre tall and projects an illusion that interacts with people.
The whole betrayal story is just so that the emperor can let the skeleton of a random space marine on a chair and take a vacation.

It cuts both ways.

[JNAProductions]

Reverse headcannon: the emperor of mankind is 1 kilometre tall and projects an illusion that interacts with people.
The whole betrayal story is just so that the emperor can let the skeleton of a random space marine on a chair and take a vacation.

It cuts both ways.

Given what we know of the Emperor, Horse's headcanon has a little more backing.

Especially given how the Sisters of Silence see the Emperor.

[The Glyphstone]

How do they see him?

[JNAProductions]

How do they see him?

Secondhand source (as-in, I read an excerpt from a book quoted on a forum) but they see him as a relatively ordinary-looking, very tired old man.

Someone who's actually read the books involving SoS and Emps correct me if I'm wrong.

[Wraith]

My understanding was always he was smaller then some of the primarchs, and physically weaker. He has to cheat to beat Leman Russ in a fist fight (power armor + power fist vs bare hands) and is the same height as Horus (who is not the tallest primarch.)

The Primarch in the picture is, by the looks of it, Guilliman so this may be accurate. Guilliman is, as far as I know, average sized for a Primarch. Magnus, Ferrus Mannus and Vulkan being the tallest... At least, he was BEFORE being decapitated....

Personal head cannon. The Emperor is 5"4. He just uses his amazing psychic power to make everybody believe he's really tall and impressive !

One theory suggested is that The Emperor doesn't exist - it's just a projection created, or maybe a normal person heroically magnified, by Malcador to be a figurehead because the Imperium wouldn't follow a crippled old mutant by himself.

Secondhand source (as-in, I read an excerpt from a book quoted on a forum) but they see him as a relatively ordinary-looking, very tired old man.

Someone who's actually read the books involving SoS and Emps correct me if I'm wrong.

This is accurate. It's from The Master of Mankind - he's not particularly old looking, but entirely plain and ordinary. They don't comment on his physical size though, so no information on whether or not he actually is 15ft tall, but his face is handsome by normal standards, with tanned skin (he's Turkish afterall) and long black hair.

[Platinius]

(he's Turkish afterall)

Turkish you say? You mean he is like Saint Nicholas aka Santa?^^ To be fair, he IS badass enough to be Santa XD

(for reference sake, Saint Nicholas is from Anatolia what is modern day Turkey)




Unrelated to anything before, here some nice Animation, enjoy!



EDIT: Also, thanks for the response Grim Portent. Sounds like the Primaris changes translate into better melee combatants. But there doesn't seem to be any changes in their mental conditioning.

[Wraith]

Turkish you say? You mean he is like Saint Nicholas aka Santa?^^ To be fair, he IS badass enough to be Santa XD

(for reference sake, Saint Nicholas is from Anatolia what is modern day Turkey)

Arguably, that is supposed to be part of the joke. The Emperor has been around, albeit in hiding, since something like 12,000BC and has occasionally tried his hand at world conquest in the guise of what we recognise as great and/or terrible historical figures.

He's Turkish because that sort of Mediterranean area is where most of Europe's greatest bronze and iron-age empires sprung up as well as a bunch of mythical heroes like St George and St. Nicolas. It's also why you find these guys carved into rocks circa-1400BC; the guy is nothing if not consistent

[hamishspence]

Arguably, that is supposed to be part of the joke. The Emperor has been around, albeit in hiding, since something like 12,000BC and has occasionally tried his hand at world conquest in the guise of what we recognise as great and/or terrible historical figures.

He's Turkish because that sort of Mediterranean area is where most of Europe's greatest bronze and iron-age empires sprung up as well as a bunch of mythical heroes like St George and St. Nicolas. It's also why you find these guys carved into rocks circa-1400BC; the guy is nothing if not consistent

The Mechanicum Horus Heresy novel drops a few hints that his activities inspired the story of St George and the Dragon.

[comicshorse]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ars-180976300/

These are the kinds of minds that will one day give us the Adeptus Mechanicum

[Cheesegear]

I read a book and made a Boomer Meme.

Spoiler: Old Earth

Show

I liked it a lot. Not quite was I was hoping for. Judging from the title I was hoping for something more like Master of Mankind, y'know, a novel that actually described Old Earth and how it came to be and the rise of the Emperor.

I'm not mad with what I got, just...'Old Earth' just isn't what this novel should be titled.

[Wraith]

Speaking of bite-size 'reviews' for GW books, I have a confession to make that may make me somewhat unpopular around these parts.

I got three-quarters of the way through Atlas Infernal and gave up, because it's too dumb.

There's parts of it I like. I like the younger protagonist, Inquisitor Klute - he's the 'straight man' of the plot, driven to succeed but otherwise being reasonably sensible, with tones of the Hypercompetent Sidekick trope thrown in as a foil to Czevak's scattered, holistic approach to Inquisiting.
It's a good dynamic, and works well from both ends when each protagonist finds a reason to explain something to the other - for the benefit of the audience - without one repeatedly appearing condescending to the other. The novel has respect for its characters in a way that is often missing - like the male Sergeant under Shia Calpunia being a perfectly good Arbites in his own right up until the Hero of the story arrives, at which point he starts getting schooled in basic points of the job he's been doing for years.

But apart from that... It's the kitchen sink approach to 40k in that absolutely EVERYTHING gets thrown in there for a few minutes and quickly discarded, not matter how important it should be otherwise. In quick succession, from memory, we see portrayed...

(Spoilers for a 2011 novel, btw...)

Spoiler

Show

• Humans capturing a ruined Eldar Craftworld. As in ALL of it, just left buried on a planet...
• Which includes an immobile Avatar of Khaine, waiting to be recovered, who is sitting on an upside-down throne on the roof, because Avatars are known to be hilarious and quirky...
• Deathwatch Space Marines being ordered by one Inquisitor to kill another...
• Deathwatch Space Marines being murdered by Harlequins, to take the Inquisitor away to teach him their secrets....
• Humans capturing and using an active Webway Gate (something something "Golden Throne" something...)
• Inquisitor returning to his crew, but now he's young and healthy and a ninja with a magic coat.....
• Lost in space with a dead navigator, the Inquisitor's ship is attacked by a Khornate warband who just happen to have a cogitator with a map of space that they need to get where they're going....
• Chaos Space Marine duels a Loyalist Techmarine, who wins and then throws himself through the vacuum of space to get back to his own ship (reminiscent of a climax to a Hollywood blockbuster - here, it's like a page of writing about how cool and awesome he is and how torpedoing himself back to his own ship is basically an inconvenience...)
• Now we need a Magic McGuffin for... reasons. We're just going to go to a HIVE WORLD that has been overrun by a Nurglish Plague and we'll just look for something the size of a coin, how hard can it be to find.... No one has a problem with this.
• Czevak does a "Sherlock Holmes" thing and determines exactly where it would be, on a planet inhabited by tens of billions, based on... I dunno, phases of the moon or what he had for breakfast, or something. Everyone just assumes that he's right because his picture is on the front cover of the novel...
• Space Gypsies sneak you into the Upper Hive with their space-hot air balloons. No, this actually happens....
• Time skip! Now we're in the Planetary Governors throne room, and apparently no-one on this planet overrun by cannibalistic lunatics has noticed us. Surely the thing we want is going to be here, that just makes sense....
• It was. Of course it was. But it's not now. We'll just escape from a HIVE full of psychotic cannibals - no-one gets hurt even slightly.
• Did they kill a Greater Daemon of Nurgle on their way out? I think they killed a Greater Daemon of Nurgle on their way out, it's implied to be wet-your-pants scary and they pretty much just run away from it and leave....
• Surprise! The Space-Gypsies had the McGuffin all along, and that makes perfect sense because Czevak says it does, shut up.

It was at about this point that I checked out. A significant number of these points would be a huge and notable event in the 40k universe for anyone else, but here we skip over them at breakneck speed and move on to the next wildly improbably thing... And we haven't even met Ahriman yet, whose presence was what sold me on the story as supposedly being a tense cat-and-mouse chase between him and Czevak. I've been reading 40k lore since the mid-90's, and yet this books just makes me feel so.... lost.

[Cheesegear]

Speaking of bite-size 'reviews' for GW books, I have a confession to make that may make me somewhat unpopular around these parts.
I got three-quarters of the way through Atlas Infernal and gave up, because it's too dumb.

I'm the only one who likes Atlas Infernal.
Cool kids who aren't me would read either Inquisition War for way more grimdarkness, or the Ahriman trilogy for more...Sense-making.

It's a good dynamic, and works well from both ends when each protagonist finds a reason to explain something to the other - for the benefit of the audience - without one repeatedly appearing condescending to the other.

Basically, Doctor Who, or any iteration of Sherlock Holms that doesn't treat Watson like a moron.

like the male Sergeant under Shia Calpunia being a perfectly good Arbites in his own right up until the Hero of the story arrives, at which point he starts getting schooled in basic points of the job he's been doing for years.

...Isn't Watson an army doctor who served in [war at the time of iteration]? ...Why are you treating him like a moron?
Also, newest-Who, where one of the Fam Companions is a police officer, yet manages to spend the entire series being mostly useless.

Of all the things Eisenhorn does wrong, at least Fischig is treated as a competent officer the entire time.

But apart from that... It's the kitchen sink approach to 40k in that absolutely EVERYTHING gets thrown in there for a few minutes and quickly discarded, not matter how important it should be otherwise.

I think, 10 years ago, that may have been why I liked it. It plays on Rule of Cool being more important than anything else, including internal consistency.
I'm sure if I read it again, now, I would get mad.
And I'm worried to know whether or not Ben Counter's Grey Knights trilogy holds up.
I'm almost certain that Counter's Malodrax (Lysander escapes an Iron Warriors' World...Naked...Yes really) probably wont, either.

It was at about this point that I checked out. A significant number of these points would be a huge and notable event in the 40k universe for anyone else, but here we skip over them at breakneck speed and move on to the next wildly improbably thing...

Once again, I think that might be why I like it.
It's meant to show how much...Stuff...Czevak has done in his lifetime (lifetimes?), and what seems fantastical to literally anyone else, is relatively mundane, for him. Because that's just how insane his life is. Something, something...Doctor Who.

[Wraith]

I stand by the positives that I said without qualification - it is well written, has strong characters, and (like Cheesegear said) if you WANT a whistle-stop tour of a bunch of weird and wacky things that happen in the 40k universe then it's fine.

I'm not such a grognard that all I want from 40k is a story about Space Marines stomping on peoples' faces for 300 pages and then the planet explodes - I loved Ciaphas Cain and Master of the Hunt and hated 15 Hours, for example - but Atlas Infernal lacks.... consistency. That's all.

...Isn't Watson an army doctor who served in [war at the time of iteration]? ...Why are you treating him like a moron?

Afghanistan.

Dr. Watson was an army medic in Afghanistan - one of the most harsh, dangerous and uncompromising battlefields in the modern world - and *he* did it in the 1870's before blood transfusions, portable antiseptics, and all the rest of it was invented. And he only came home because he got shot and caught typhoid, both of which combined he got over in about 6-8 months.

He's literally a war-hero who comes home and spends his spare time getting talked down to by a deranged coke-fiend. Show the guy some respect, Doyle.

[snowblizz]

and hated 15 Hours,

I loved 15 hours. Unless I misremembering it. It was so perfect all the way down there being no possibiltiy to trilogize it. And then I realsied, damit I woulda like more.

[Wraith]

If you liked it then, all power to you and I hope you find what you're looking for. For me though, I found it far too lacking in 40k elements and too much like a 'real life' World War 1 diary, but with the word "Orks" Ctrl+H'd into place instead of "Prussians". Even the Chapter set on a spaceship is so directly - and probably intentionally - described so that it could just as easily take place inside a battle ship that I think they sacrificed too much flavour in favour of pointing at the text and shouting "SEE! SEE! IT'S AN ALLEGORY THAT ALL WARS ARE THE SAME AND ARE POINTLESS!"

It's the opposite of Atlas Infernal - it does nothing to evoke the wonder of the 41st millennium or describe anything fantastic in order to offset the misery.

[Cheesegear]

Dr. Watson was an army medic in Afghanistan - one of the most harsh, dangerous and uncompromising battlefields in the modern world...

I vaguely recall an iteration where Watson was in the Gulf War.
The most recent mainstream iteration - Sherlock, unsurprisingly - has Watson from, well, Afghanistan.

He's literally a war-hero who comes home and spends his spare time getting talked down to by a deranged coke-fiend. Show the guy some respect, Doyle.

I don't know what you call them. But Britain makes a lot of them (and as part of the Commonwealth, we get them for some reason):
Shows where someone who is definitely not a police officer, is better than police officers at their job. Sometimes the officers are shown to be actually incompetent... Maybe that's where Doctor Who got it from? British shows just do that for some reason.

I loved 15 hours.

I liked 15 Hours for what it was; "The 41st Millennium is a bad place." Fortunately, it was over quickly. I appreciate that stories like it need to exist to flesh out the Galaxy, and just to hit home how terrible life really is when you aren't a main character. But I have no interest in reading it again, nor seeing more of it.

I'm reminded of the 'lower decks' Chapters of the Lords of Mars series by Graham McNeill. Goon squad walks into local bar and blackjacks everyone they can get their hands on. When the drunkards wake up, they're conscripted to the engine room of a starship. Welcome to your new life. There is no escape (well, read the series, I guess). Fortunately, the 'lower decks' isn't the main story and thankfully there's some relief with Black Templars and Titan Princepses and Aeldari stuff. Because it's supposed to be escapist, heroic fiction. Not an adventure in misery.

The opening of The Macharian Crusade trilogy, has a tank crew have their Baneblade explode. One of the characters has PTSD for the rest of the series after the Commander explodes on him. I know what Billy King is doing. I know the point he's making. Thankfully, Undertaker is a secondary character and the series isn't about abject misery and war trauma. It's about a rag-tag team of Guardsman following around the most-legendary leader the Guard have ever known, and overcoming odds stacked against them - and for a while it's about the origin story of Logan Grimnar, because Billy King writes Space Wolves and why wouldn't he? And then you realise that at some point, young Logan Grimnar and Lord Solar Macharius were friends, and Logan's undying respect for Guardsmen makes a lot of sense, because they've never let him down, not once. Because that's the kind of Guardsmen that I want to read about. The ones who earn the respect of Logan Grimnar (who himself, would go on to become Lord Solar), not the ones who die in a ditch.

[Wraith]

I vaguely recall an iteration where Watson was in the Gulf War.

I'm sure that if you look hard enough, you'll find a series which is essentially "Sherlock In Space" and he was a veteran of Wolf-359 or something. Classically though, it was the Middle East.

I don't know what you call them. But Britain makes a lot of them (and as part of the Commonwealth, we get them for some reason):
Shows where someone who is definitely not a police officer, is better than police officers at their job. Sometimes the officers are shown to be actually incompetent... Maybe that's where Doctor Who got it from? British shows just do that for some reason.

Crime-Thriller, I think - as opposed to Procedural-Thriller which would include things about police officers such as A Touch of Frost and Law & Order. We make a lot of those because of political reasons that are forum forbidden, but boil down to "the police in the 1960's to 1980's were particularly unpleasant so we make up stories about why we don't need them, that have persisted until today".
As is often the case, Britain looked at a problem and created satire, whereas in comparison America looked at a problem and created parody. That's why we created Judge Dredd and they created Brooklyn-Nine-Nine.

I guess it's a self-justifying trope - if the police were portrayed as being any good, they wouldn't NEED the protagonist in the first place.

[Cheesegear]

Crime-Thriller, I think - as opposed to Procedural-Thriller which would include things about police officers such as A Touch of Frost and Law & Order.

So, going to my local TV Station's website. Currently running shows:
Grantchester - A vicar solves crime.
Father Brown - A priest solves crime.

Then there are like five other shows where it's the same thing. But at least the main characters are DCIs...And the reason I even know what a DCI is, is because Australian TV has so many British Crime Shows it's ridiculous.
Also I love the Rivers of London series.

I guess it's a self-justifying trope - if the police were portrayed as being any good, they wouldn't NEED the protagonist in the first place.

My favourite iterations of the trope; Psych and Republic of Doyle.
The police aren't incompetent (especially in later seasons), but the main character is, well, Just Better. However, that said, in both of the above shows, the main characters have both had some form of police training.

[Amechra]

Watson has definitely diminished in importance as the stories have gotten adapted. There's also a sense that Watson admires Holmes in the way that you'd admire a talented friend more than anything else.

I also wouldn't characterize the police as incompetent in the original stories, exactly. "This is a guy whose GENIUS BRAIN can see connections and clues other people can't" is much easier to sell without everyone else being idiots when forensic science is in its infancy.

[snowblizz]

I also wouldn't characterize the police as incompetent in the original stories, exactly. "This is a guy whose GENIUS BRAIN can see connections and clues other people can't" is much easier to sell without everyone else being idiots when forensic science is in its infancy.

I'm starting to find I have issues with this myself. I've enjoyed watching a bit of old school Columbo recently and it starts to get a bit weird when it boils down to GENIUS BRAIN is convinced of guilt, but there is no actual evidence to hold up in court. Which means genius brain policeman/crimenovelist/etc ad nauseum just hounds a person in a way that is probably illegal harassment until thy manage to make them confess. Not always, but the significan't majority of the times.

I would add the reason also for many of these !Policeperson is crimesolver shows are premised on 1) there just so many actual police investigates shows we need a new pitch (PI/novellist/amateur baker solves crimes is original! go us smurt brains!), and 2) the police just can't do some things, but a person who isn't has a lot more leevay in what they can do, usually resulting in the aforemention confession from guilty party.

[Amechra]

I think it's also honestly a factor of how boring it would be to watch proper police procedure. That's why protagonist cops are either mavericks who get results or have some reason not to follow the book for this particular case (departmental corruption forcing them to work outside the law is a classic). It's like how doctor shows generally fall apart into soap operas at some point - dealing with bureaucracy is dull.

Plus, there's also the satisfaction of seeing that justice is blind, or whatever. Uncle Moneybags might be able to buy off the cops or cover his trail with his egregious amounts of cash, but GENIUS BRAIN will not be swayed or fooled!

[Clistenes]

The Primarch in the picture is, by the looks of it, Guilliman so this may be accurate. Guilliman is, as far as I know, average sized for a Primarch. Magnus, Ferrus Mannus and Vulkan being the tallest... At least, he was BEFORE being decapitated....



One theory suggested is that The Emperor doesn't exist - it's just a projection created, or maybe a normal person heroically magnified, by Malcador to be a figurehead because the Imperium wouldn't follow a crippled old mutant by himself.



This is accurate. It's from The Master of Mankind - he's not particularly old looking, but entirely plain and ordinary. They don't comment on his physical size though, so no information on whether or not he actually is 15ft tall, but his face is handsome by normal standards, with tanned skin (he's Turkish afterall) and long black hair.

I have read somewhere that another Perpetual psyker once saw through the Emperor's glamours and was horrified by what he saw... but I can't find the original source... does anybody know if that's true and in what book...?

I'm starting to find I have issues with this myself. I've enjoyed watching a bit of old school Columbo recently and it starts to get a bit weird when it boils down to GENIUS BRAIN is convinced of guilt, but there is no actual evidence to hold up in court. Which means genius brain policeman/crimenovelist/etc ad nauseum just hounds a person in a way that is probably illegal harassment until thy manage to make them confess. Not always, but the significan't majority of the times.

I would add the reason also for many of these !Policeperson is crimesolver shows are premised on 1) there just so many actual police investigates shows we need a new pitch (PI/novellist/amateur baker solves crimes is original! go us smurt brains!), and 2) the police just can't do some things, but a person who isn't has a lot more leevay in what they can do, usually resulting in the aforemention confession from guilty party.

It is true that wouldn't work in most real life cases... most people, when confronted that way, would shout their innocence nonstop no matter how persistent the detective was...

On the other hand, it seems that's how police actually acts in Japan in real life... most Japanese people, when confronted with figures of authority telling them about their crimes to their face are supposed to break down and confess, but it's a cultural thing...

Apparently, when confronted with shameless criminals who would tirelessly deny their crime and even *GASP!* try to confuse and mislead the police with lies (the horror!), the Japanese policemen were at a loss about what to do... (how do we prove his guilt if the criminal doesn't confess...?!)

[LansXero]

It is true that wouldn't work in most real life cases... most people, when confronted that way, would shout their innocence nonstop no matter how persistent the detective was...

And then you have Lucifer for whom it matters not at all. Although not all seasons were equally good.

In the 40kverse though, psykers are a thing so that adds another dimension to it.

[Cheesegear]

And then you have Lucifer for whom it matters not at all. Although not all seasons were equally good.

Crime-solving Devil.
It makes sense.
Don't overthink it.

[Wraith]

I have read somewhere that another Perpetual psyker once saw through the Emperor's glamours and was horrified by what he saw... but I can't find the original source... does anybody know if that's true and in what book...?

This sounds familiar - I don't think it was a Perpetual, but I remember words to this effect. It was always sketchy as to whether or not they had seen entirely through the Emperor's glamour, or if they just thought so because they had just witnessed a particularly cruel example of one of his of his many faces. Damned if I can remember who it was, though....

The Perpetuals that we've seen so far just don't like him very much.
Ollanius Persson and John Constantine Grammaticus both met the Emperor way back in antiquity, stuck around until his more fascistic tendencies started to show themselves and generally just thought he was a bit of a ****, it wasn't particularly traumatic.
Cyrene was struck blind by the bombing of Monarchia and was nowhere near Him when he landed to humble Lorgar.
Erdu was more or less his wife for a few thousand years, though she grew bitter about his plans for the Primarchs - 'their children' - and left for a life of solitude.
That leaves Vulkan and a couple of Space Marines who never met Him in person... A couple of minor characters who did a thing and haven't shown up again since...

...The old Priest from The Last Church short story, maybe? He's not immediately scared by the Emperor's appearance, but he is metaphorically horrified by what He represents and what the Priest knows must follow in his wake. That might be what I'm thinking of.

Crime-solving Devil.
It makes sense.
Don't overthink it.

What's to overthink? Lucifer was never really about the crime-solving, it was just a vehicle for Tom Ellis to be fabulously camp and heroically ridiculous while cashing in on Neil Gaiman's relatively recent leap to superstardom after American Gods was commissioned for TV. I thought it was great.... Well, better than the Constantine show at least...

[Cheesegear]

What's to overthink? Lucifer was never really about the crime-solving...

It's the song.

The main problem being that you buy the rights to Gaiman's Lucifer, and you reformat the whole thing into the Non-Police Officer Solves Crime genre? Really!? The Producers and Screenwriters read the comic, right?

Finally, you've got the premise of the show itself; The Devil Solves Crime. Just...Really? Okay. Sure. Fine. The show had to do a lot of work in order to get the premise over. A lot of people watched the first few episodes and bailed, because the premise is real dumb.

For the record; I like Lucifer. It's a decent show. Especially since all the other DC/CW shows are in the toilet, so it's not like it has a high bar to clear. And then later when the show goes "Be more like Supernatural, because people like Supernatural." it gets even better and/or worse at the same time...Whatever.

[Eldan]

What's to overthink? Lucifer was never really about the crime-solving, it was just a vehicle for Tom Ellis to be fabulously camp and heroically ridiculous while cashing in on Neil Gaiman's relatively recent leap to superstardom after American Gods was commissioned for TV. I thought it was great.... Well, better than the Constantine show at least...

Eh, I liked the Constantine show a lot, and really couldn't stand the Lucifer show. But that's probably also in large part because I'm a fan of both comics series and the Constantine show was reasonably close while Lucifer... shared a name.

[Wraith]

Eh, I liked the Constantine show a lot, and really couldn't stand the Lucifer show. But that's probably also in large part because I'm a fan of both comics series and the Constantine show was reasonably close while Lucifer... shared a name.

I loved the Constantine TV show. Matt Ryan was great, the plots were spooky and appropriately bloody, and I binged the whole thing in a week without complaint.

But it was pretty bad. Why was it set in the USA? Why was Chaz a hunky, pseudo-immortal single guy with a tragic backstory? And where's Castiel!?

Still.... The Sandman comes out next year, so here's hoping that they take a page out of Good Omens and make it as close to the novels as possible. Third-and-fourth times the charm?

[comicshorse]

I loved the Constantine TV show. Matt Ryan was great, the plots were spooky and appropriately bloody, and I binged the whole thing in a week without complaint.

But it was pretty bad. Why was it set in the USA? Why was Chaz a hunky, pseudo-immortal single guy with a tragic backstory? And where's Castiel!?

Still.... The Sandman comes out next year, so here's hoping that they take a page out of Good Omens and make it as close to the novels as possible. Third-and-fourth times the charm?

Well it does explain why he hasn't horribly died like all of John's other friends

[JNAProductions]

What do we know of the Missing Primarchs, and their Legions?

I'm setting up a game where the PCs will be playing as them, so any info appreciated. I might not follow what we know, but it provides a good base.