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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    My players are swiftly approaching a plot arc they have long been pursuing that will take place in Duervna, a keeps-to-itself state that’s long been riding high on the benefits reaped from localized magical effects and resources.

    On a whim and a player’s suggestion for a hireling’s background (and the great accompanying voice acting he provided) Ireland was loosely chosen as the linguistic influence for Duervna. I’m not aiming to ship magical !ireland but forgoing phrases and mannerisms seems like I’d be passing up some low key immersive gems. How much to layer these sorts of things in, to what degree might I be inclined to pull from historical culture and what do the particulars of Duervna change for these tidbits?

    Magic is in the air. This setting has power coming from leylines in the earth as one possible source. Duervna is situated right over a potent nexus that has gradually affected the residents over the ages. Enter magicyte (ore) aeternum (processed), a trope certified blue magic rock that acts as a conduit for the ambient magic. When discussing the particulars of it with the aforementioned party member he remarked it sounded a lot like Dune’s spice. Power the pseudo magic items, spice the foods, use it in lavish art as displays of wealth. I figure blue could become the color of wealth but what then of typical clothing?

    Magic is used for anything where the cost benefit ratio is favorable. Government by some mix of lords and elected officials. Harsh prison sentence means you’re headed to the magicyte mines. Everyone has magical tattoos that are used for displaying their name and affiliations as floating runes. (The hireling, as a branded military deserter, has his shameful runes always on. Though he’s getting pardoned when they arrive). One party member is secretly disinherited nobility from Duervna, and the party has seen he wreckage of a civilization that harnessed leylines (And necromancy) to power their flying cities only for a cataclysm to drop it all from the sky and turn the survivors to desperate measures to sustain the amount of magic they were dependent on.

    The party is coming here simply to get a meteorite forged to serve as a power source for a few flying contraptions from the crashed city they plan on bolting into their ship. I’d like to strike them with a sense of Different and Fantastic that calls back to the wonders of childhood discovery. And so I come to you fellow playgrounders wondering what details, what delivery methods, which props and scenes have been amazing on the delivery and evocation of feelings. For a group of tired 9-5ers staring at a roll20 splash of some lovingly rendered city where can I direct my efforts to best strike immersion, interest, and in these jaded times perhaps a bit of awe (or foreboding at a future foreshadowed)?

    What storytelling tools and delivery methods have you found particularly helpful or otherwise experienced as impactful that I might adopt here?
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    I can't do much for the specificity of your setting, but having just come up with a bunch of random trinkets found in a high magic society, I can at least share that list of low powered magic items for use by the common people. that's stuff that people on the road may be wearing

    - authomated cooking pot: this cooking pot warms itself without needing a fire
    - ringbrella: this ring creates a deflection field that is specifically tailored to raindrops, acting like an umbrella, but more effective
    - amulet of protection from mosquitoes: the name says it all. who wouldn't want one?
    - pendant of sexual prowess: this amulet increases your endurance, reduces your reload time, and enhances your libido. Available at different power levels, in different models for him and for her.
    - gloves of warming: they almost but don't quite replicate the effects of an endure element spell. Cue people sunbathing in winter wearing a swimsuit and those gloves
    In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.

    Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you

    my take on the highly skilled professional: the specialized expert

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Where magic becomes technology it has the same effect on society as technology. So if illusion boxes can receive broadcasted data then you have TV's. If self driving horse carriages are a thing then you have cars. If on-demand sending/long range telepathy is a thing then you have phones. What you end up with is a modern society. If teleportation circles are everywhere then you have Star Trek level science fiction!

    I'd say don't treat it like a fantasy game, treat it like a fantastical sci-fi game with fantasy themes.
    Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    I hear Ireland and Laylines and I think ring of mushrooms and fay coming out each night for a hard party. Then comes the rest of the post and then the other replies... Now I just don't care if it fits...


    So we have raves! (and other random ideas)
    1. Making somewhat large lanterns with dancing lights spell inside and you now have spotlights. Add animated object to the mix and it can switch between a preset of different colors.
    2. A pathfinder spell exists that allows a bard to become a one man band by enchanting instruments to play for him. He can also conjure said instruments
    3. An object enchanted with Prestidigitation to apply neon paint to whatever it is presently touching.
    4. Depending on the prevalence of transmutation spells, alchemists and other such things I would expect for hair, eye and even skin colors to have a wide variety.
    5. High magic tends to make life easier and when life is easier people tend to get more artistic, educated or otherwise more aware of their surroundings by having less of a job to focus on. Have vary few commoner class and more expert class. They will not necessarily be smart but well educated will be a thing.
    6. Social Class might be dictated by magic skill but lines might fade beyond that. Rather if a hedonistic society I wager age might play more a role in social class as the old are partied out and become responsible while the young party.



    Tattoos and piercings might become more of a thing. Eventually someone is going to break the mold and instead of enchanting a belt they enchant and pubic ring instead. When arcane classes start getting overabundant more obscure practices get more limelight. In Complete Arcane, for instance, there is four alternate forms that potions can come in (fruit, skulls, wafers and tiles) and then you have scrolls (gems, incendiaries, and macrame) and then spell books that are definitely not corpse tree format.

    WoW RPG has the Tinker class and a whole chapter dedicated to machines powered by some magical substance. it will be easy to substitute that ingredient with your blue magic stone thingie. Best part is that is it 3.5 compatible (though WoW RPG runs on its own balance)



    Push that envelope. Get out of the box.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lord Raziere's Avatar

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    It depends on what you can do with the magic.

    The usual thing to do is to treat it as modern technology, but while its going to be a more advanced society, it doesn't have to be modern tech.

    for example, if what whatever magical thing can be put into....anything....then there is no point to specific materials or forms that modern tech has to adhere to, to function. if you can enchant a ring to do something, why not use rings for everything involving fingers? its just efficient. why not just make flying boots for everyone? the only reason to ride in something would be the social value of sitting alongside somebody and chatting, its not actually needed when everyone can just fly under their own power and talk at whatever destination they get to. while buildings won't need any consistent aesthetic or structure if you have magic to make them function however you want.

    magic can quite simply bypass a lot of technology's limitations that we take as normal. you don't need magic internet, you can just connect to peoples minds to communicate. you don't need armor, make your clothes project invisible magical forcefields. breakfast might consist of taking out stored rocks and then transmuting them into the food you want. With magic you might even be able to alter your appearance however you want, making consistent styles and appearances a thing of the past. without defining magic's limitations, your society is going to be unimaginably wealthy and decadent compared to the rest of the world and at the same time looking seemingly defenseless because all its defenses are invisible until someone causes trouble.

    so really it all depends on what this blue magic rock can do. if its just an excuse to make anything happen...well you might get modern tech. but you will just probably get something modern technology only wishes it can do. the only limit is your imagination and how flexible your willing to make your magic rock.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Just kind of brainstorming:
    -If the magic is unlimited then the society has probably wiped itself out. So the magic is a limited (though still very abundant) resource AND/OR the use of magic is strictly controlled.
    -The blue magic dust is already a limited resource.
    -Treat magic from the leylines as a finite resource, like water in a water-scarce area. People are only allowed to draw so much of it. Owning the rights to draw that magic is a significant source of wealth? Magic court to adjudicate claims?
    -Magic casters are required to be certified by a central authority?
    -The blue dust can be consumed and doing so is an act of conspicuous consumption that demonstrates wealth? Turns the eyes blue. Grants the ability detect magic at all times? Addictive? Coming off of it is painful? Even deadly?
    -Body modification used to demonstrate affiliation? Purple hair is the mark of a particular house/gang/faction?
    -Lots of protective charms in the forms of body modification, wearable items, clothing which protect from illusion, mind control, and other spells that people might use to alter behavior.
    -A trade in emotions/memories? The poor can sell their most vivid memories via encode thoughts spells.
    -Automatons like golems, unseen servants (and visible servants) are common. Others make use of modified humanoid servants. Sub-species of the various character species serving the very rich/powerful? E.G. Blue gnomes whose entire, very small in number, species serves the wizard who created them?
    -Come to that, the very powerful might have their own pocket civilizations inside their towers and homes.
    -People using encrypted telepathy to communicate? Is this a basic line that divides the haves (magic-users) from the have-nots?
    -Self defense using force weapons and telekinesis rather than physical weapons?
    -Is there an entire section of the city that can only be accessed by those that fly?

    Bear in mind that the problem with a high-magic environment is going to be the player tendency to steal anything they can. If you make a bunch of standard magic items commonplace they are going to load up on those by one means or another and unbalance the game in the lower magic areas.

    I'd suggest a few new spells that can function in both high and low magic areas but keep the number of magic items that will actually work away from the city low. The personal descriptor/status icons, for example, could be the result of a modified glyph spell but actually powered by the life-force of the wearer. Magic items might draw directly on the ley-lines rather than being self-powered, making them effectively useless when too far from the ley-lines/city.

    So far as presenting this stuff to the players I would suggest foregoing awe and focusing on foreign. I suspect this high-magic society will look down on physical tools. Armed and armored adventurers would be both an amusing curiosity and a dangerous sight. People will wear soft kit and advertise power through different mechanisms. The size of their entourage. Access to the power of the ley-lines. Conspicuous consumption of resources (including magic, using spells like fly with abandon).
    Last edited by jjordan; 2020-10-11 at 04:20 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    I’m really liking this evolving picture of colorful clothing, shameless Dune references that will get a few of my players smiling, and a great many parallels to modern day that could be indulged.

    As one of my players has a great love for antiquity the vibrant hues of clothing being commonplace will surely catch his attention. I may even drop a snarky line on how the party doesn’t even appear to be that rich as foreigners as they lack (rare dye color) clothing.

    The mention of raves and conspicuous consumption leads me to thoughts of the party bard. A thriving night scene may do well for contrast as he finds himself just one performer among many, rather than a rarity gracing a community with his presence.

    Faerie circles reminds me that this is indeed still a fantastical world with unusual creatures. A nexus of power is a perfect invitation for higher density of unusual creatures and unique local hazards. The party already had a close brush with fae on a classic ‘appearing once a month’ festival island that claimed half their crew when the island winked out at sunset. Living in a high fae presence there wouldn’t so much be superstitions as good safe practices for warding against fae in everyday actions and spoken word. The matter of pest control may also include handling fae/rodents of unusual size/that breed of invisible lizard every nobles’ child had as a pet last summer.

    Themes involving changelings could also be touched upon, but I doubt the party will be lingering long enough to play out ‘another side quest’ as they’d view it. All the same, scenarios unplayed are better than ones unplanned.

    Thank you everyone for the suggestions and inspiration!
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Hard to answer without knowing what magic can do in your setting. But:

    * Fantasy magic often makes it easy to make light, so nighttime would probably be bright and colorful like the modern world. Burning stuff for light sucks. Perhaps everyone has their own magelight, rather than streetlights, to avoid being too modern.

    * Real people tried to use magic to control fertility and cure disease. If these people are good at it, the women may be bolder and less 'modest' compared to women elsewhere, much like modern women, since they don't have to fear pregnancy or STDs.

    * There are various things what would work better if you've strongly established what low-magic and -tech society is like: dark, high child mortality, prone to famines...

    * If it's a system like 3e D&D, then assuming everyone has access to Prestidigitation effects is a good approach. Lots of bright colors, as people have said, and changes of color, sometimes odd smells...

    * If they can use their magic to improve farming, then you may have a lot more people who aren't farrmers, and living in cleaner and healthier cities than elsewhere. Perhaps less smoky cities and houses, if there's magical heating.

    * Some systems allow mental contact, but only with people you know well. So it's not entirely like having cell phones.

    * Messenger pigeons are something settings tend to overlook anyway, but if magic means intelligent birds, they're even more useful, since they can fly back and forth, or find people in the field, or spy on people from above and report; pigeons can only go home. Small flying fairies can take a similar role.

    * If it's really high magic they may not even have farming as we know it. A potted food plant in the living room produces fruit or tubers for the whole family in a day, sustained by magic rather than sunlight... perhaps it's rather bland, and the natives use Prestidigitation to make it taste how they want; the PCs take a morale hit since they're stuck eating the equivalent of unseasoned potatoes for all their meals.

    * If they can have lots of teleportation circles, then maybe what they don't have are roads. And what looks like multiple cities are actually one big 'city': sometimes you walk to the next neighborhood, and sometimes you walk through a circle to the next neighborhood. This would also make conventionally besieging such a city rather brutal: civilians can evacuate, supplies and more troops can come in, the attacker is doomed. And maybe instead of being one locality, like Ireland with magic ore, it's actually a 'city-nation' of enclaves spanning the world, existing wherever the ore is found, linked by teleportation.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Quote Originally Posted by mindstalk View Post
    Hard to answer without knowing what magic can do in your setting. But:

    * Fantasy magic often makes it easy to make light, so nighttime would probably be bright and colorful like the modern world. Burning stuff for light sucks. Perhaps everyone has their own magelight, rather than streetlights, to avoid being too modern.

    * Real people tried to use magic to control fertility and cure disease. If these people are good at it, the women may be bolder and less 'modest' compared to women elsewhere, much like modern women, since they don't have to fear pregnancy or STDs.

    * There are various things what would work better if you've strongly established what low-magic and -tech society is like: dark, high child mortality, prone to famines...

    * If it's a system like 3e D&D, then assuming everyone has access to Prestidigitation effects is a good approach. Lots of bright colors, as people have said, and changes of color, sometimes odd smells...

    * If they can use their magic to improve farming, then you may have a lot more people who aren't farrmers, and living in cleaner and healthier cities than elsewhere. Perhaps less smoky cities and houses, if there's magical heating.

    * Some systems allow mental contact, but only with people you know well. So it's not entirely like having cell phones.

    * Messenger pigeons are something settings tend to overlook anyway, but if magic means intelligent birds, they're even more useful, since they can fly back and forth, or find people in the field, or spy on people from above and report; pigeons can only go home. Small flying fairies can take a similar role.

    * If it's really high magic they may not even have farming as we know it. A potted food plant in the living room produces fruit or tubers for the whole family in a day, sustained by magic rather than sunlight... perhaps it's rather bland, and the natives use Prestidigitation to make it taste how they want; the PCs take a morale hit since they're stuck eating the equivalent of unseasoned potatoes for all their meals.

    * If they can have lots of teleportation circles, then maybe what they don't have are roads. And what looks like multiple cities are actually one big 'city': sometimes you walk to the next neighborhood, and sometimes you walk through a circle to the next neighborhood. This would also make conventionally besieging such a city rather brutal: civilians can evacuate, supplies and more troops can come in, the attacker is doomed. And maybe instead of being one locality, like Ireland with magic ore, it's actually a 'city-nation' of enclaves spanning the world, existing wherever the ore is found, linked by teleportation.
    The general scope of common magic spans up to roughly 7th level D&D spells with a handful of caveats, mainly long distance teleportation being dependent on from/(usually) to circles established on leylines, no resurrections, the planes being much harder to reach out to and generally more malicious/alien. Pardon my facepalming, plentiful (or at least more commonplace) teleportation seems to be a given with the details I’ve arranged. Objects of convenience and importance, while mass shipping handles bulk.

    I’m not averse to the notion of magical street lamps as it’s a clear follow on to standard oil lamps that were used for untold centuries. See how quickly electricity was put to lighting when people figured out it could serve that function. Though if I keep the magic rock rare enough that allows for a clean upper class / smoky slums dynamic.

    Farming and its relationship to free time / economic specialization is a really good point to have brought up. I’ve seen historic numbers placing 70-90% of the population as farmers up until recent technological developments pushed the yield rates beyond 100 peoples worth per farmer. Magical combine harvester doesn’t have quite the right feel for technological progress and scarcity, but augmented plants and livestock (maybe even naturally occurring to some extent) could explain a moderate shift in production rates without placing undue strain on verisimilitude. Could also look to historical estimates of yields to have parallels to draw on societal state.

    I am totally running with animal messengers for all sorts of things. The party’s squirrel prophet will utter the timeless words immediately “I want one”.

    So a colorful world towering taller than the lands around it but at the same time smaller due to ease of communication.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    "I’m not averse to the notion of magical street lamps as it’s a clear follow on to standard oil lamps that were used for untold centuries."

    Though I think street oil lamps were rare due to expense; closest would be householders obliged to put a map out for a few hours in the evening, I think.

    I was more thinking about how magic is deployed: if it's easier for people to do magic than to make magic items, then you get people being their own nightlights, rather than just having magical streetlights. Same benefit, different means and effect. (And less light pollution!)

    Farming is interesting because it's easy to think of magics that would boost yield per land, seed, or early season labor -- identify fertile seeds, guarantee sprouting, keep pests away, weed suppression (part of the function of plowing) -- but then bringing the harvest in is an entirely different problem, and (for grains and hay; other crops can be more lax about when you bring them in, or spread their production over more time) perhaps the biggest labor bottleneck. Though you can have a thing where fewer people farm full time but most of the urban population heads out to the fields at harvest time.

    Or you can have invisible servants that do the harvest for you, but I consider magical labor more blatant in a way than magics that manipulate life, mind, and modest amounts of light. (Basically whether something openly violates conservation of energy...) And you object to the magical harvesters too.

    A useful orchard magic that isn't too "something for nothing" is being able to *delay* nut and fruit production: instead of one big crop, you have steady production. Of course then you need to keep the birds and squirrels away, but that's warding magic... between them the two spells still feel less flagrant to me than "create food" or the equivalent "accelerate harvest".

    In a way the big threshold is getting to 50% of the population not in food production; you can at most only double that number after that. (Though the ratio of non-farmers to farmers can keep going up and up.)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    I like the Mythal approach better than the magicpunk one for showing off a high magic society. Every has persistent buffs inside the node-lines due to rituals soaking it up and shooting it out.

    People can fly or teleport, some sort of unusual movement.
    At-will unseen servants or telekinesis.
    Some sort of minor creation power, think Nozuls Paints.
    People have regeneration/healing inside the area.
    Telepathy or other mental magic that people can use to talk.
    If you have a world of dreams people might access it at night, so everyday life is more mundane but they live in a magic fey land together when they sleep.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting


  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    One place you might look for inspiration is the "Darksword" books. There's a series of novels and a novel sized book that's an RPG. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darksword

    • Everyone flies if they have to go very far (except those who can't)
    • Weather control. Farms are weeded by telling the weeds to "move on". Assume high productivity per hectare and per person working. So large urban populations with time to do stuff other than feed everyone. Professional artists, athletes and other entertainers.
    • Manufacturing will be by golems, magic machines or magicly enhanced crafstman. No furniture maker will be without a ring of speed - twice as much work in the day, sell for 2/3 the price and still be more profitable while stoneworkers shape stone like clay. Maybe all 3. Golems mass produce plain stuff, magic produces items which would be physically impossible to make otherwise and craftsmen show their art with items of beauty and quality.
    • Magic sports (maybe see if you can do better than Quiddich?) - That said, the Potterverse could also give some ideas
    • Politics - Is it a magocracy where magical power trumps all? A magically administered democracy where everyone votes telepathically each week on the issues, a kingdom or something else? This will both influence and be influenced by the local culture
    • Think about how much magic is in the people and how much its in the items they have. If it's mostly in items, expect the party to buy a lot of them. If it's in people, then any items are special - they're unusually powerful, they're for the "disabled" who lack magic or they're precision implements - "Sure, anyone can teleport and hit a circle 10 feet wide, but if you need to get your message into the right pidgin hole at head office from anywhere in the country, first time every time, you need the Portapack 3000!"



    Look at modern society for the things we would have magic do but not how it looks
    I love playing in a party with a couple of power-gamers, it frees me up to be Elan!


  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    When it comes to farming the first thought I come to is Equestria. Filled with colorful Little ponies from the my Little pony franchise. See the thing is, their weather is completely and utterly managed due to the Pegasus who can actually shape and move clouds about with just their bare hooves. Unlike some of us who have weather forecasters Equestria has weather schedules and their weather is never bad unless they forget a day and then they have to do a rescheduling or put down more rain with a bigger storm.

    While I doubt your setting will have winged... I'm sure it probably does have winged quadrupeds. I have a feeling that there will be some other magic that can be used to just simply make the weather better (or perfect). And instead of altering the plants and the animals why not just make the soil better too give it the nutrients it needs.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Quote Originally Posted by mindstalk View Post

    I was more thinking about how magic is deployed: if it's easier for people to do magic than to make magic items, then you get people being their own nightlights, rather than just having magical streetlights. Same benefit, different means and effect. (And less light pollution!)

    Farming is interesting because it's easy to think of magics that would boost yield per land, seed, or early season labor -- identify fertile seeds, guarantee sprouting, keep pests away, weed suppression (part of the function of plowing) -- but then bringing the harvest in is an entirely different problem, and (for grains and hay; other crops can be more lax about when you bring them in, or spread their production over more time) perhaps the biggest labor bottleneck. Though you can have a thing where fewer people farm full time but most of the urban population heads out to the fields at harvest time.

    Or you can have invisible servants that do the harvest for you, but I consider magical labor more blatant in a way than magics that manipulate life, mind, and modest amounts of light. (Basically whether something openly violates conservation of energy...) And you object to the magical harvesters too.

    A useful orchard magic that isn't too "something for nothing" is being able to *delay* nut and fruit production: instead of one big crop, you have steady production. Of course then you need to keep the birds and squirrels away, but that's warding magic... between them the two spells still feel less flagrant to me than "create food" or the equivalent "accelerate harvest".

    In a way the big threshold is getting to 50% of the population not in food production; you can at most only double that number after that. (Though the ratio of non-farmers to farmers can keep going up and up.)
    One of the bigger advances in matters of food has been preservation and shelf life. A moderate bump to production and storage methods that appear futuristic compared to the real world. Layer on consistent production and it looks like nobody generally goes starving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I like the Mythal approach better than the magicpunk one for showing off a high magic society. Every has persistent buffs inside the node-lines due to rituals soaking it up and shooting it out.
    .
    Personal illumination within cities (Mythal style why not) sounds like a grand contrast. Pair it to a law about nighttime travel and you’ve got streets that look like colorful roads from above. Looks like a reflection of the current RL world but allows for some interesting contrasts.

    Quote Originally Posted by mindstalk View Post
    A short but good read (the PDF itself). The speed of development seen in MIR is blazing fast and overly magic dense compared to what I’m spinning up for Duervna. With more gradual development it looks like the society should be well accustomed to dealing with all the peculiarities and legal questions that touch upon relevant magics. With fae being a constant looming bogeyman I can see mobs reacting in peculiar ways to those using charm effects or similar. Fae or malicious caster? Put ‘em in a barrel of iron shavings!

    Quote Originally Posted by Duff View Post
    One place you might look for inspiration is the "Darksword" books. There's a series of novels and a novel sized book that's an RPG. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darksword

    May get around to checking this on the weekend, thanks.

    • Everyone flies if they have to go very far (except those who can't)
    • Weather control. Farms are weeded by telling the weeds to "move on". Assume high productivity per hectare and per person working. So large urban populations with time to do stuff other than feed everyone. Professional artists, athletes and other entertainers.
    • Manufacturing will be by golems, magic machines or magicly enhanced crafstman. No furniture maker will be without a ring of speed - twice as much work in the day, sell for 2/3 the price and still be more profitable while stoneworkers shape stone like clay. Maybe all 3. Golems mass produce plain stuff, magic produces items which would be physically impossible to make otherwise and craftsmen show their art with items of beauty and quality.
    • Magic sports (maybe see if you can do better than Quiddich?) - That said, the Potterverse could also give some ideas
    • Politics - Is it a magocracy where magical power trumps all? A magically administered democracy where everyone votes telepathically each week on the issues, a kingdom or something else? This will both influence and be influenced by the local culture
    • Think about how much magic is in the people and how much its in the items they have. If it's mostly in items, expect the party to buy a lot of them. If it's in people, then any items are special - they're unusually powerful, they're for the "disabled" who lack magic or they're precision implements - "Sure, anyone can teleport and hit a circle 10 feet wide, but if you need to get your message into the right pidgin hole at head office from anywhere in the country, first time every time, you need the Portapack 3000!"


    Look at modern society for the things we would have magic do but not how it looks
    While not explicitly a magocracy I see an overlap of social prestige and magical potency. A house of hereditary lords and a house of elected commoners feels like a good split, though maybe that’s not explicitly the composition and is more by tradition.

    Extremely minor innate > mythal style general use > rarer magical tools ~= magically skilled individuals feels like a good arrangement of frequency. Everything has a touch of special, but there are still standouts.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    "One of the bigger advances in matters of food has been preservation and shelf life."

    Oh yeah, magical stasis seems pretty low-key magic (corpse preservation!) (you're literally not doing anything, just stopping) but would be really useful for building up food supplies.

    Speaking of thermodynamically friendly magic: Tables spend no energy keeping things up. Horses can lock their legs for a similar effect, but we can't, so even standing is tiring, and all our real means of hovering are power-hungry except for balloons. "Holding things up" a la Tenser's Floating Disc could be another form of magic that takes no actual work yet allows amazing things, like floating castle (lifted up very very slowly). Or lots of freight with neither roads nor canals, as you just use 'hovercarts' instead. Fast flying takes work, but you could "walk on air" for no more energy than walking.

    (If it wasn't clear, I like looking for magical possibilities that don't amount to free energy.)

    (LEDs show us that it doesn't take much power to make an efficient light, so I accept personal mage lights, you'd just eat slightly more.)

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Quote Originally Posted by mindstalk View Post
    .

    (LEDs show us that it doesn't take much power to make an efficient light, so I accept personal mage lights, you'd just eat slightly more.)
    Or aeternum tattoos that allow even the commoners to tap the leylines. Though the matter of food consumption may very well tie back to Spicing of food and possibly conspicuous consumption. As some basic tatts give basic magic, It stands to reason that a wealthy individual might be able to buy magic (and the implied social standing). Extra food consumption when abroad could be an interesting quirk!

    Opened up to the leyline by the tattoos, perhaps they’re more vulnerable to magic in some specific ways, leading to heightened concern about the fae and other things of note?

    With all these conveniences that depend on the leyline I’m again seeing parallels to be drawn with electricity and derived utilities. As a localized phenomenon what sort of people/personality would chose to travel abroad without the comforts they were born into? How might the rest of the world view these lands if immigrants are readily accepted so long as they get their own proper set of tatts? I’ve already got a conservative, planar breach police group of magic users that look down their nose at such frivolous and reckless use of magic. Rest of the world...?
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    BTW, "Our magic doesn't travel" is a good reason for elves or other high-magic cultures (the ones that aren't 'balanced' with low-magic in any way) not taking over the world: they don't want it.

    A real-world equivalent could have been if Earth didn't have fossil fuels; you could fairly easily still get electricity via hydropower in the 1800s or 1900s, but there would be less of it, and more tied to location (especially as a lower energy world would still be tied ports, rivers, and canals for transport). Within range of a water turbine you get electric lights and refrigeration and electric subways; elsewhere it's horses and dung. Which can lead to wars over the good resources, but perhaps the occupier is unassailable due to controlling the power.

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    Scots Dragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Check out Halruaa in the 3e Shining South book for ideas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    A game setting does need to be designed to be fun and functional to game in.

    But there's more to good worldbuilding than piling the "parts to game in" on a big pile.

    Farmland isn't there to be adventured in, primarily, but one assumes it's still there and part of the landscape -- just because adventurers don't go there often doesn't mean it doesn't or shouldn't or needn't exist.

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Politically speaking, with automation it becomes more likely that a democracy will have happened at some point. Whether a telepathic direct democracy as someone else suggested, or a 20th century-style representative democracy, or something more exotic like a governing hivemind (districts elect representatives, all representatives mind-meld for the duration of their term), democracy is likely. Bonus points if the democracy is presented as something absurd or unthinkable to the characters.

    If the government isn't democratic and doesn't exercise city-wide mind control, there may be a revolution brewing. Get the PCs caught up in it!

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Isocahedron View Post
    Politically speaking, with automation it becomes more likely that a democracy will have happened at some point. Whether a telepathic direct democracy as someone else suggested, or a 20th century-style representative democracy, or something more exotic like a governing hivemind (districts elect representatives, all representatives mind-meld for the duration of their term), democracy is likely. Bonus points if the democracy is presented as something absurd or unthinkable to the characters.

    If the government isn't democratic and doesn't exercise city-wide mind control, there may be a revolution brewing. Get the PCs caught up in it!
    We’re not looking at sufficient magic density for automation yet. Though hinting at such things that are just around the bend might be more effective as the players have seen the remnants of a far more developed civilization that was the rough logical progression from Duervna’s current state.

    The mind magic would be a tricky bit I don’t see as extremely likely to fit given the aversions to fey and magic that influences the mind. As things are currently developing in session I could see the potential for revolution if there wasn’t a threat just beyond their doorstep. Guess that just means the discussion shifts to doves and hawks.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Played Ilien in a long running 3.x Birthright campaign years ago. While all the other nations jockeyed for position, I focused on becoming a high magic realm.

    • Developed a feat that was tied into the general education of my people, Arcane Dabbler, grants one Cantrip slot and a "spellbook" containing 3 cantrips of their choice. Another feat granting Find Familiar was also fairly commonplace.
    • Set up the capital main roads as a prayer wheel, the general daily foot traffic grinds out mana for the ruler to use.
    • The capitals streetlights had three effects set on them, Light, obviously. Disrupt Undead, would activate once per round in response to any undead within its range. And Dancing Lights, which would float decoratively around the lamp, and which were responsive to the will of passersby with arcane talent...particularly children...
    • The County hosted three military units, the Ilien Rangers, a very well equipped advanced scout unit. The Crimson Guard, a heavy infantry unit trained in basic magecraft and able to collectively cast a Rain of Magic Missiles. And a the Crimson Corsairs, a marines unit gifted with a pennant that controlled the wind, making them dangerous at sea...
    • Minor magical trinkets became rediculously commonplace, with a small College of Wizardry, and the apprentice magecrafting encouraged. Most craft and profession journeymen could expect to own something that would add +1 to +3 at least, most guards would have some sort of once per day evocation or conjuration enchantment, and ensorcelled monsters were fairly common as pets, guards, or for utility...
    • Most of the permanent settlements were transfigured, turning the buildings into huge hollow crystal dwellings, no actual stat change, but looked impressive as hell...
    • The people had more leisure time, more artists, bards, theatre, the capital had sculpted parks, plant life was common, literacy was very high...
    • We relied on visible, and frequent, use of Realm scale magics to dissuade hostile political and military actions. As such, we were the Neutral party, and a favoured location for diplomatic events. Nothing like throwing a Raze Castle spell down a ley line at an uppity lordling with delusions of security...
    • A near neighbour would intermittently send giant spiders downriver to plague us...so we captured and farmed them for silk, chitin and meat...
    • Street sweepers guided gelatinous cubes around town, while sewerage found its way into a rather large black pudding...
    Last edited by aglondier; 2020-10-29 at 08:25 AM.
    "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
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    Dwarf Magus (Deep Marshal) spell list

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    The general scope of common magic spans up to roughly 7th level D&D spells with a handful of caveats
    Well, damn. I don't know how obvious it would be to casual visitors, but your big governmental/management spells include Detect Thoughts (Wiz 2) or Zone of Truth (Clerical 2) [3.5e spell levels], and Sending (Clr 4, Wiz 5). The first two radically change judicial proceedings and anti-corruption investigations, possibly even employee management, or marital relations. The last has very limited capacity but is still useful. Cheaper but a bit more exotic is Animal Messenger (Brd 2, Drd 2, Rgr 1) which lets you use messenger pigeons without having to raise and cart pigeons around.

    Alternately if a lot of people have one level of Wiz or Sor, they can have bird familiars -- messengers smart enough to fly back and forth between locations, or even people they can recognize. Like pigeons but a lot more convenient. Plus the aerial surveillance capabilities in warfare.

    The real world had pigeon post -- medieval Europe seems to have been deficient in this, compared to the ancients, or to the Arabs of Crusades times -- but making it cheaper and more convenient is a big deal, as is familiars or Sending to 'radio' field forces -- real pigeons could only be used by field forces or agents[1] to send messages back to a base, you had to send a human to give orders to the field.

    [1] One trick apparently was a "release on capture" pigeon; if the pigeon flew in, even without an attached message, you knew the agent had probably been in imminent danger of being captured or killed.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Quote Originally Posted by mindstalk View Post
    Well, damn. I don't know how obvious it would be to casual visitors, but your big governmental/management spells include Detect Thoughts (Wiz 2) or Zone of Truth (Clerical 2) [3.5e spell levels], and Sending (Clr 4, Wiz 5). The first two radically change judicial proceedings and anti-corruption investigations, possibly even employee management, or marital relations. The last has very limited capacity but is still useful. Cheaper but a bit more exotic is Animal Messenger (Brd 2, Drd 2, Rgr 1) which lets you use messenger pigeons without having to raise and cart pigeons around.

    Alternately if a lot of people have one level of Wiz or Sor, they can have bird familiars -- messengers smart enough to fly back and forth between locations, or even people they can recognize. Like pigeons but a lot more convenient. Plus the aerial surveillance capabilities in warfare.

    The real world had pigeon post -- medieval Europe seems to have been deficient in this, compared to the ancients, or to the Arabs of Crusades times -- but making it cheaper and more convenient is a big deal, as is familiars or Sending to 'radio' field forces -- real pigeons could only be used by field forces or agents[1] to send messages back to a base, you had to send a human to give orders to the field.

    [1] One trick apparently was a "release on capture" pigeon; if the pigeon flew in, even without an attached message, you knew the agent had probably been in imminent danger of being captured or killed.
    Again, magic that touches upon mental influence of any sort is the strictest taboo. The people have a long history of dealing with fae as one of the many hazards in their lives. Though perhaps the public doesn’t need to know about the going ons of dark, secluded dungeons.

    Again with fae the local creatures are potentially suspect so we turn to the likes of Sending. There’s a caveat of range in play here that mainly limits it to shorter range messages, but a few simple relay posts trivialize this.

    And now to dwell on a folktale where a fae replaced a messenger bird to disastrous results.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    What storytelling tools and delivery methods have you found particularly helpful or otherwise experienced as impactful that I might adopt here?
    In your stead, I would focus on the three following rules:
    - For something to make an impact, it has to be non-trivial.
    - Good storytelling makes the audience invest emotionally in the story.
    - Theme is good, but not knowing what the story was actually about until the end can be great (the surprising plot twist)


    An example:

    Begin by brushing up on your flavor text. When the powerful move through town, it is not just a coach and a driver, it is a vertiable parade of magical guardians and floating carpets, showing off their power and influence. Even the lowliest shop keeper wears clean, colorful garments, nor does the city smell like you average medieval city. Let the players get their hands on a few things that they can feel excited about.

    Next, once they have gotten used to the exotic, show the players the negative impacts of magic and use it to get them to invest. Mutated ore miners, the occasional deadly explosion, lazyness and decadence, otherworldy terrors attracted to overuse of the ley lines, people that need rescuing and things that need fixing.

    And finally, once they have gotten comfortable with what they think is fixing the problem, twist the story around. If they have found magical seeds that solve the problem, make the seeds cause other crops to become sterile and cause famine. If they found a magical paint brush that can protect houses from rogue fire elementals, make the paint react with rain water and become poisonous. The magical key to the palace somehow ended up in the hands of an assassin rather than the lovestruck chambermaid the party intended it for. If your players are invested enough, they will engage in the story and merrily bust their behinds to fix the problem they unintentionally created, not minding in the slightest that you set them up from the beginning.
    Last edited by Misereor; 2020-10-30 at 08:37 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Prime32's Avatar

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    Default Re: Contrasting a high magic society to the rest of a setting

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Ireland
    I’d like to strike them with a sense of Different and Fantastic that calls back to the wonders of childhood discovery.
    The party need to travel to get there, so some of the old stories of sea journeys might offer inspiration - Wikipedia has pages for The Voyage of Bran, Máel Dúin and Echtra Cormaic. One scene in particular that could set the tone:
    After two days, he sees a man on a chariot speeding towards him. The man is Manannán mac Lir, and he tells Bran that he is not sailing upon the ocean, but upon a flowery plain. He also reveals to Bran that there are many men riding in chariots, but that they are invisible.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2020-11-12 at 08:19 PM.

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