Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

[Rater202]

OK, I kind of take issue with this. This is a remarkably Rater-centric view. The teacher very likely could not get an exact and accurate accounting for every single student who was acting out and who was quiet and behaving. Is punishing the entire class the ethically right thing to do? No. But it's a ridiculously minor issue; we're not exactly talking about war crimes here. The kids acting up had to know that was unacceptable behavior. If you said "but "I wasn't doing it", then someone else could do, who she would be unsure of (and this is assuming she knew you weren't, which, despite your protests, is not a given). She could not possibly rule accurately, and on top of it, the vast majority would likely claim innocence and the ordeal would stretch out unnecessarily long. And this all completely ignores the possibility that your teacher may not have known whether you were talking or not and wanted to shut the argument down regardless. Teachers aren't perfect, and I have a rather large issue with how certain teaching is done and how certain teachers act across the spectrum of schools and academia, but teachers are also typically underpaid and overworked. Some form of classroom discipline and decorum has to take place, they have to be able to exert authority over the class to be effective. Honestly thinking the teacher was gaslighting you seems like a grossly inordinate characterization when she was most likely just not caring about guilt or innocence that she probably had no way of verifying and it was significantly more efficient and effective to just shut it down for one kid in order to control the class as a whole, which is her job. The world isn't black and white. This isn't killing one person to save a hundred. This is you getting recess* taken away for the teacher to be able to do her job.

*You didn't say what the punishment was, so this is more metaphorical than anything.

Again, the teacher had direct line of sight on me. She was looking at me when she said it.

And, to reiterate: This was the first time that anyone had gotten in trouble for talking during work time in over half the school year: People weren't acting up, people were doing the kind of thing we'd been doing all year.

...Considering that this is the same teacher who kicked me out of class when I said I didn't want to go on a field trip and once yelled at us and failed the entire class when it took more than a minute to understand her rather confusing diagrams for an experiment(no written instructions, just a diagram) with her throwing the take-home test we had to do to make up the grade on the floor. The one who insinuated that I was regarded and told me I'd never make it to High School while also criticizing me for reading the books I wanted to read instead of the ones that matched my higher than average Lexile score. The school library didn't even have books that matched my Lexile score.

She wasn't even the teacher for this class! We had two teachers for the fifth grade: One who taught math and social studies and one who taught English(reading) and science, and we'd switch rooms when it was time for a different subject. She came into the room during a subject she didn't teach and, yelled at everyone to shut up, and assigned a punishment, and the actual teacher for the class abided by it!

I also didn't protest immediately. I brooded on it, was asked why I was upset half an hour later by the bitch who gave the punishment, told her I didn't like being punished when I didn't do anything, and then she tried to gaslight me. Again, direct line of sight.

You know all the stories I've shared before of being screwed over by teachers in middle school and high school? I powered through it to spite. This. One. Raging. Narcissistic. Bitch. Who said I'd never get to high school. I am not the only student she did things like this to, either.

The only reason I'm referring to her as a "teacher" is becuase the forum filter will censer the most appropriate word for her, becuase she didn't teach anything but that sometimes, people who have no business being around children end up with jobs dealing with children becuase the school doesn't actually care about the children in its care.

[Anonymouswizard]

The worst I ever had at school was having to resit Year 3 English despite knowing and using all the rules, despite being able to use all the techniques and dissect the texts as required, and despite being one of the highest scorers for reading age in the class.

Because the teachers had no idea on how to treat the stuff I wrote because it was weird. Seems rude to stop somebody advancing due to content when they have the techniques.

[factotum]

Again, the teacher had direct line of sight on me. She was looking at me when she said it.

And she'd been looking at you all the time during the alleged incident, then? Because where she was looking when she's talking about the punishment is irrelevant, it's where she was looking while the talking was happening.

[Peelee]

Plus, it's a classroom. The teacher most likely has direct line of sight on everyone. And asking a half hour after the fact is even worse; not only are you asking her to keep track of each and every student specifically and their actions, but you're asking her to do so after some time has passed with perfect recall.

It's almost certainly not gaslighting.

[Rater202]

And she'd been looking at you all the time during the alleged incident, then? Because where she was looking when she's talking about the punishment is irrelevant, it's where she was looking while the talking was happening.

She walked into the room. My seet was in direct line of the door.

Then she yelled and punished the entire class, again, for something that wasn't against the rules until she walked that that moment in a class that she didn't even teach. And for some reason, the teacher who actually taught the class abided by that instead of telling Mrs. Bitch that we hadn't been breaking the rules.

She would have been looking directly at me when she entered the room, and there were maybe seconds between her entering and her yelling.

And no. Gaslighting is attempting to alter someone's perception of events. I was demonstrably upset and when I explained why when I was asked I was told that what I was upset about did not happen the way I remember it. Whether she believed me to have been talking or not is irrelevant, rather than confront the possibility that she was mistaken, she immediately told me that my perception of events was objectively wrong. That is the definition of gaslighting.

The teacher in question had a history of disproportionate and abusive punishments for minor offenses. Even if she wasn't trying to gaslight me, which I doubt based on her other behaviors, she still acted inappropriately.

The other teacher wasn't much better to be honest. I got a tooth knocked out of my mouth(accident) while sitting five steps away from her desk. She sees the blood coming out of my mouth, I'm pankcing so instead of saying "my tooth got knocked out" she asks me if I'm pulling out my teeth(there's no excuse here, she was at her desk and my seat was literally right in front of it) and leaves me to pace around in a panic until I eventually just run out of the room(Yes, I should have just said "my tooth got knocked out can I go to the nurse" but I was ten, panicking, and autistic, all things that the teacher either knew or should have been able to figure out right quick.)

[Peelee]

Whether she believed me to have been talking or not is irrelevant, rather than confront the possibility that she was mistaken, she immediately told me that my perception of events was objectively wrong.

Her belief about your talking is absolutely relevant. Your definition of gaslighting means that you are gaslighting my right now and I am gaslighting you right now. Your definition of gaslighting makes most arguments gaslighting for both parties. That is a bad definition (and not one I have ever seen or read before), and it greatly diminishes actual gaslighting.

[Rater202]

Her belief about your talking is absolutely relevant. Your definition of gaslighting means that you are gaslighting my right now and I am gaslighting you right now. Your definition of gaslighting makes most arguments gaslighting for both parties. That is a bad definition (and not one I have ever seen or read before), and it greatly diminishes actual gaslighting.

...I am not telling you that your memories, something you know to be true, is objectively wrong.

I am not telling you that there are five lights when there are only four.

Nor are you attempting to tell me that the course of events I am describing did not happen. You are merely arguing semantics about whether or not what she did after the fact fits the definition of gaslighting.

Therefore, neither of us are gaslighting each other.

When asked why I was upset, I answered honestly, that I was upset about being punished for something I wasn't doing, rather than apologies, or explain that she has to punish everyone becuase she can't confirm who was and was not and that if she lets one person off everyone will argue, or anything reasonable, her immediate response was to say that I was too talking.

She didn't even call me a liar. If she'd called me a liar I'd be complaining about that becuase lying to a teacher was an automatic office referral

Her gut instinct was to try and make me doubt my own recollection of the events. To make me think I was upset over nothing.

That is a tactic straight out of the abuser playbook: Cover your ass by making sure the victim doesn't believe their own memories of what happened. As this was her immediate gut response, and considering all of this teacher's other abusive and otherwise unprofessional behaviors towards myself and other students, I am not inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Peelee]

...I am not telling you that your memories, something you know to be true, is objectively wrong.

Memory is incredibly fallible.

Also, let me try a different way. You and I are walking down the street. I say, "hey, what's that blue sign say?" You say, "uh, that sign is purple." Congratulations, you just gaslit me under your definition of gaslighting, because I'm colorblind and can't see purple. This also conveniently ignores that the sign is absolutely purple and I am wrong calling it blue - I can't see purple, I perceive it as blue, so you telling me what is objectively true is now gaslighting.

That is a bad definition.

[Rater202]

Memory is incredibly fallible.

Also, let me try a different way. You and I are walking down the street. I say, "hey, what's that blue sign say?" You say, "uh, that sign is purple." Congratulations, you just gaslit me under your definition of gaslighting, because I'm colorblind and can't see purple. This also conveniently ignores that the sign is absolutely purple and I am wrong calling it blue - I can't see purple, I perceive it as blue, so you telling me what is objectively true is now gaslighting.

That is a bad definition.

This is not a comparable situation. Right now, you are not trying to convince me that I was talking all back then. You are not trying to make me doubt my perception of reality.

You are not gaslighting me at that moment.

Back then, the teacher absolutely was trying to convince me that I had been talking, based on context: if she'd thought I was lying to her to get out of trouble, she'd have sent me to the office with a referral as was the practice at this school. It was certainly in character for her to have done so, as she had a history of inflicting harsh punishments for trivial reasons.

The only alternative I can think of is that she was trying to provoke me, trying to make me get into an argument with her.

[Peelee]

This is not a comparable situation. Right now, you are not trying to convince me that I was talking all back then. You are not trying to make me doubt my perception of reality.

You are not gaslighting me at that moment.

Back then, the teacher absolutely was trying to convince me that I had been talking, based on context: if she'd thought I was lying to her to get out of trouble, she'd have sent me to the office with a referral as was the practice at this school. It was certainly in character for her to have done so, as she had a history of inflicting harsh punishments for trivial reasons.

The only alternative I can think of is that she was trying to provoke me, trying to make me get into an argument with her.

A.) I'm not trying to make a comparable situation. I'm trying to point out why your definition of gaslighting is bad and diminishes actual gaslighting. It doesn't matter how compelsrable the situations are because I'm not trying to make a comparison, I'm trying to show you a logical conclusion of the application of your definition and why it fails. Under your definition, every time I see a color wrong and someone tells me what it actually is, they are gaslighting me.

2.) The teacher was not trying to convince you of anything. The teacher almost certainly didn't care what you believed. The teacher was trying to shut down an argument. The teacher may have been a jerk, but was not gaslighting.

[Rater202]

2.) The teacher was not trying to convince you of anything. The teacher almost certainly didn't care what you believed. The teacher was trying to shuy down an argument. The teacher may have been a jerk, but was not gaslighting.

There was no argument to shut down.

She came to me, asked why I was brooding. I answered truthfully, that I was upset about being punished for something I didn't do. I was then immediately told that I was wrong and had been doing the thing I was punished for. That was the entire exchange.

Which, combined with her history of abusive behavior, leads me to conclude that she decided to respond to my airing of grievances by denying that the grievance possibly could have happened. She attempted to gaslight me to avoid admitting to even the possibility that she may have made a mistake.

[Peelee]

There was no argument to shut down.

She came to me, asked why I was brooding. I answered truthfully, that I was upset about being punished for something I didn't do. I was then immediately told that I was wrong and had been doing the thing I was punished for. That was the entire exchange.

Which, combined with her history of abusive behavior, leads me to conclude that she decided to respond to my airing of grievances by denying that the grievance possibly could have happened.

That's all fair, you're probably right on that. This is not the main point I am trying to make though.

She attempted to gaslight me

Again, that is not what gaslighting is. This is the main point I am trying to make.

[Rater202]

Again, that is not what gaslighting is. This is the main point I am trying to make.

Okay, let me propose a scenario: A parent gets their child a puppy. One week later, report cards come in and uh... Billy got a B+ instead of an A, so they take the dog and have it put down. They make the kid watch while their puppy is put down and insist that puppy had to die becuase Billy was a bad student.

Years later, the child confronts their parent over this and the parent insists that they did not put down Billy's puppy, or worse, that they never got Billy a puppy in the first place.

Would you consider this to be gaslighting?

[Rater202]

Did that actually happen to you, Rater?

No.

No one murdered any of my pets to hurt me.

It is, however, a much more extreme and clear cut example of an abuser claiming that their harmful actions did not happen.

...Does it still count as a double post if the post between got deleted? I'm not gonna get in trouble for this, am I?

[enderlord99]

No.

No one murdered any of my pets to hurt me.

It is, however, a much more extreme and clear cut example of an abuser claiming that their harmful actions did not happen.

I'm glad we agree that it's extreme and abusive. I'm also glad that it did not happen.

I lost two dogs this year, so I'm a bit sensitive to such descriptions.

[Peelee]

Okay, let me propose a scenario: A parent gets their child a puppy. One week later, report cards come in and uh... Billy got a B+ instead of an A, so they take the dog and have it put down. They make the kid watch while their puppy is put down and insist that puppy had to die becuase Billy was a bad student.

Years later, the child confronts their parent over this and the parent insists that they did not put down Billy's puppy, or worse, that they never got Billy a puppy in the first place.

Would you consider this to be gaslighting?

I do not see how that is in any way related to your significantly looser definition which includes people telling me what color something is as a fitting example.

...Does it still count as a double post if the post between got deleted? I'm not gonna get in trouble for this, am I?

No. The quote link goes to nothing, so it's pretty clear to everyone that there was an intervening post that got deleted.

[LaZodiac]

So here's a general, no frills, nothing bad is going to come of it question for y'all.

What should I have for supper today? I'm bored of my standard food, haven't been able to do grocery shopping in awhile, and am still a little afraid of eating due to being sick. So what should I try?

[Peelee]

So here's a general, no frills, nothing bad is going to come of it question for y'all.

What should I have for supper today? I'm bored of my standard food, haven't been able to do grocery shopping in awhile, and am still a little afraid of eating due to being sick. So what should I try?

Chicken carbonara.

[DataNinja]

So here's a general, no frills, nothing bad is going to come of it question for y'all.

What should I have for supper today? I'm bored of my standard food, haven't been able to do grocery shopping in awhile, and am still a little afraid of eating due to being sick. So what should I try?

I know it's typical, but when I'm sick, I really enjoy soup or stew. Being able to just slowly sip it down just... helps, I find. Just to make sure I eat a whole meal.

[Fyraltari]

So here's a general, no frills, nothing bad is going to come of it question for y'all.

What should I have for supper today? I'm bored of my standard food, haven't been able to do grocery shopping in awhile, and am still a little afraid of eating due to being sick. So what should I try?

Take slices of bread. Put onions on the bread. Put slices of cheese in the onions. Place the whole thing in an oven and cook it.

Edit: and I just read the part where you day you are sick. Cheese is a bad idea then. Soup?

[LaZodiac]

Chicken carbonara.

A fun idea, but where would I get it? I've got... little in the way of food stores.

I know it's typical, but when I'm sick, I really enjoy soup or stew. Being able to just slowly sip it down just... helps, I find. Just to make sure I eat a whole meal.

It's an idea, but I'm not really found of many soups or stews.

Take slices of bread. Put onions on the bread. Put slices of cheese in the onions. Place the whole thing in an oven and cook it.

Edit: and I just read the part where you day you are sick. Cheese is a bad idea then. Soup?

Why is cheese a bad idea when sick? And to clarify I'm sick with whooping cough and generalized nausea.

Also with regards to onion and cheese sandwich- this may be the most disgusting thing I've ever heard of, there is a reason Void Bastards used it as the jokey dystopia food.

[Fyraltari]

Why is cheese a bad idea when sick? And to clarify I'm sick with whooping cough and generalized nausea.

Cheese is notoriously hard to digest so it ofteb worsens nausea.

Also with regards to onion and cheese sandwich- this may be the most disgusting thing I've ever heard of, there is a reason Void Bastards used it as the jokey dystopia food.

What is wrong with you people?

[Mith]

At least for me, if I am sick, I really like my vegetables. So roasted vegetable tray (tomatoes, onion, zucchini for example though what ever mix suits your palate. You can put potatoes on to roast to, along with meat if you want, so it's not too many diferent things to cook at once. Personally the vegetables along with some toast and a fried egg is my go to.

Other idea of a similar thing is fried rice.

Basically a hot meal, since it's kinda cold and miserable down hear so I assume that all the mercury themometers have frozen up where you are at by now.

[Anonymouswizard]

So here's a general, no frills, nothing bad is going to come of it question for y'all.

What should I have for supper today? I'm bored of my standard food, haven't been able to do grocery shopping in awhile, and am still a little afraid of eating due to being sick. So what should I try?

Take bread. Apply heat to side of bread until side of bread goes crisp. Flip bread over and repeat.

Chop up onion and tomatoes. Acquire bacon lardons.

Get frying pan out of cupboard, apply heat to one side. Ensure side heat has been applied to is underside, then add bacon lardons to the pan. Cook at a low enough heat to have bacon fat collect in the pan, use the bacon fat to fry onions and tomatoes until soft and delicious.

Apply pig-tomato-onion mix to upside of crisped bread. Eat.

(I forget the name for this dish, and it might include mushrooms as well? It's a German recipe, and pretty simple.)


EDIT: and now I've got a hankering for egg and onion sandwiches....

[LaZodiac]

Cheese is notoriously hard to digest so it ofteb worsens nausea.


What is wrong with you people?

I didn't actually know that, I'll keep that in mind.

Hey! I never went that far. I don't begrudge you having your horrifying monster sandwich, but as someone who does not like onions at the best of times that is... extremely horrifying a flavour and texture profile. It almost solved my problem by making me too grossed out to eat just imagining it.

At least for me, if I am sick, I really like my vegetables. So roasted vegetable tray (tomatoes, onion, zucchini for example though what ever mix suits your palate. You can put potatoes on to roast to, along with meat if you want, so it's not too many diferent things to cook at once. Personally the vegetables along with some toast and a fried egg is my go to.

Other idea of a similar thing is fried rice.

Basically a hot meal, since it's kinda cold and miserable down hear so I assume that all the mercury themometers have frozen up where you are at by now.

That's a good idea, though I'll note that... unless I'm mistake isn't almost all food hot? I don't actually know what would count as cold food. A plate of ham I guess?

Take bread. Apply heat to side of bread until side of bread goes crisp. Flip bread over and repeat.

Chop up onion and tomatoes. Acquire bacon lardons.

Get frying pan out of cupboard, apply heat to one side. Ensure side heat has been applied to is underside, then add bacon lardons to the pan. Cook at a low enough heat to have bacon fat collect in the pan, use the bacon fat to fry onions and tomatoes until soft and delicious.

Apply pig-tomato-onion mix to upside of crisped bread. Eat.

(I forget the name for this dish, and it might include mushrooms as well? It's a German recipe, and pretty simple.)


EDIT: and now I've got a hankering for egg and onion sandwiches....

That's intersting, though again not a fan of onions (or tomato slices, for that matter) so... I'll pass. I'm shocked you don't like, eat the bacon though? Not a fan of mushrooms either.

EXCUSE me EGG and ONION?!

[Anonymouswizard]

IThat's intersting, though again not a fan of onions (or tomato slices, for that matter) so... I'll pass. I'm shocked you don't like, eat the bacon though? Not a fan of mushrooms either.

Oh no, like most times you cook things in bacon fat you eat the bacon. You cook slowly enough to get partially cooked bacon in bacon fat, and then throw in your onions (or whatever) while it's finishing off. I often do a similar thing when making ragu,

EXCUSE me EGG and ONION?!

With lots of butter. Surprisingly tasty.

[Fyraltari]

I didn't actually know that, I'll keep that in mind.

Really? Maybe it's because I have migraines but the idea of someone who regularly eats cheese and does not know to keep away from it when sick never ocurred to me.

Hey! I never went that far. I don't begrudge you having your horrifying monster sandwich

It's not a sandwich it's a... hum, I can't find a decent translation of tartine. Like toast but the bread isn't cooked separately, everything is cooked together.

but as someone who does not like onions at the best of times

I now know what is wrong with you people.

that is... extremely horrifying a flavour and texture profile. It almost solved my problem by making me too grossed out to eat just imagining it.

Sorry about that.

EXCUSE me EGG and ONION?!

Look onions are to cooking what black is to clothing: it goes well with everything!

[LaZodiac]

Oh no, like most times you cook things in bacon fat you eat the bacon. You cook slowly enough to get partially cooked bacon in bacon fat, and then throw in your onions (or whatever) while it's finishing off. I often do a similar thing when making ragu,

With lots of butter. Surprisingly tasty.

Aaah, okay.

I mean that's... god man you do you but that food item sounds heinous to me.

Really? Maybe it's because I have migraines but the idea of someone who regularly eats cheese and does not know to keep away from it when sick never ocurred to me.

It's not a sandwich it's a... hum, I can't find a decent translation of tartine. Like toast but the bread isn't cooked separately, everything is cooked together.

I now know what is wrong with you people.

Sorry about that.

Look onions are to cooking what black is to clothing: it goes well with everything!

It's not a thing I've ever heard about!

I mean it's food between two pieces of bread it's a sandwich.

I find onions to be personally quite disgusting. It's just bad mouth feel. Onion powder is good don't get me wrong, but actual onions? Bleck.

Apology accepted. Don't worry not necessarily your fault- on good days a merry go round will leave me nearly unable to walk. I'm always low key nauseous as **** so it's easy to kill me.

[Mystic Muse]

Trying to think of different car accessories to get.

So far the list consists of

Seat Covers
Additional floor mats (and keeping the really old ones to get traction in snow/ice.)
Steering wheel cover.
I may even go so far as to be That Girl and get driving gloves.

Any other things? I already have something hanging on my mirror, so no fuzzy dice or other distractions.

[Mith]

That's a good idea, though I'll note that... unless I'm mistake isn't almost all food hot? I don't actually know what would count as cold food. A plate of ham I guess?

Non toasted sandwiches come to mind. I'm usually freezing cold when sick, so I like borrowing heat from the food I am eating. Though not being a fan of tomatoes and onions may make my idea not super great for you. I am mostly just thinking high vitamin values to help your immune system out.

As for the cold weather comment, I realise that winter has only just started. But I found out we didn't leak test well enough the other day when we set out into the river the other day, so I may be biased to how cold it actually is here.