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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Academically or colloquially?

    Academically, I would google "Woodlice", look at the description which classifies them as a crustacean, which I know to be a different classification than an insect, and say no.

    Colloquially, I would look at a picture of one, say "probably," then look at a picture of a lobster or crab and say "but those ain't."

    Take whichever answer you prefer, really.

    Great question! Absolutely nothing. And if they had more meat on them, it would probably be more common.
    Right sometimes I forget that when I'm talking to you I'm talking with someone actually intelligent.

    Taxonomy is a huge crapshoot a lot of the time, and from talking with people who do this sort of stuff, there really is no significant difference between insects and crustaceans. A lobster and a shrimp are just as buggy and weird as a mosquito or a cockroach, but since the big wet bugs have lots of meat on them they are considered okay to eat and the small dry bugs are gross.

    I actually have to drop this conversation now because writing out that sentence almost made me throw up.


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  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Right sometimes I forget that when I'm talking to you I'm talking with someone actually intelligent.
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Would you say a woodlice is an insect?
    No. No I would not.
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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I think you are not making a fundamental distinction between "what a pizza is supposed to be" and "the very specific and narrow set of pizza that Rater enjoys".
    Would you eat peanut butter and clam pizza? No tomato sauce, no cheese. Just peanut butter and clams. Becuase that exists, but I don't think most people would eat it or even consider it pizza in the first place.

    What most people think of as pizza is, essentially, a variation of pizza marrianara which started life as a savory sauced made from crushed tomatoes covered with mozzarella cheese and parsley. This is also from where "marinara sauce" comes from, as it's a refinement of the original pizza sauce. Tomatoes parsley, garlic, onion, sometimes peppers.

    The product is, by default, savory and spicy. Not sweet, the way a raw tomato would be. This isn't my opinion, if your marinara sauce is sweet, you have made a mistake in making it. If you are using something other than marinara sauce or similar, you are not making what most people think of when they think of pizza.

    Marinara, and thus, pizza, is not something like say, Barbecue sauce which comes in a dozen different varieties and can taste like anything. There's a general consensus on what a red sauce, and thus marinara, and thus what pizza, is supposed to be like.

    Pineapple runs counter to that... If you like it, fine... But I can't understand why, becuase in terms of culinary science the pineapple clashes with both the sauce and the cheese. You expect certain things when you eat a Pizza and Pineapple runs counter to those things.

    And, again, the thought of mixing those flavors makes me nauseous. I am not allergic to any of the ingredients, there is nothing about the individual ingredients tha makes me sick, but the mixing of those flavors causes a physical reaction if sickness. I can only conclude that there's something wrong about it that either the people who like it ignore or have trained themselves to like.

    Re: Bugs.

    "Bug" is a category that covers most arthropods as well as several other varieties of invertebrates: A lobster is, in terms of genetics, evolutionary history, and cladistics closer to a spider or roach than it is to anything that most human beings would willingly eat. It has a hard shell, it looks like an alien, and is has the wrong number of legs. Ergo, it's a bug.

    The only reason Lobster has considered a delicacy is becuase once we had trains able to haul lobster to the midwest before they died, fishermen in the coast would sell it to rubes in the mid west by saying it was a delicacy. People only like it becuase it's expensive. Before that, a net full of lobster was considered a day of fishing wasted and it was legally considered cruel and unusual punishment to make prisoners eat lobster more than three times a week.
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  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Would you eat peanut butter and clam pizza? No tomato sauce, no cheese. Just peanut butter and clams. Becuase that exists, but I don't think most people would eat it or even consider it pizza in the first place.
    I would not eat it (I would never eat peanut butter to begin with), but I would call it a pizza because I try to be open-minded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    If you like it, fine
    That was all I was trying to get you to say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Re: Bugs.

    "Bug" is a category that covers most arthropods as well as several other varieties of invertebrates
    "Bug" is a category that specifically only refers to an order of insects. Unless, of course, you would like to revisit that "hot/spicy" thing?
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  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Would you eat peanut butter and clam pizza? No tomato sauce, no cheese. Just peanut butter and clams. Because that exists, but I don't think most people would eat it or even consider it pizza in the first place.

    What most people think of as pizza is, essentially, a variation of pizza marrianara which started life as a savory sauce made from crushed tomatoes covered with mozzarella cheese and parsley. This is also from where "marinara sauce" comes from, as it's a refinement of the original pizza sauce. Tomatoes parsley, garlic, onion, sometimes peppers.

    The product is, by default, savory and spicy. Not sweet, the way a raw tomato would be. This isn't my opinion, if your marinara sauce is sweet, you have made a mistake in making it. If you are using something other than marinara sauce or similar, you are not making what most people think of when they think of pizza.

    Marinara, and thus, pizza, is not something like say, Barbecue sauce which comes in a dozen different varieties and can taste like anything. There's a consensus on what a red sauce, and thus marinara, and thus what pizza, is supposed to be like.

    Pineapple runs counter to that... If you like it, fine... But I can't understand why, because in terms of culinary science the pineapple clashes with both the sauce and the cheese. You expect certain things when you eat a Pizza and Pineapple runs counter to those things.

    And, again, the thought of mixing those flavors makes me nauseous. I am not allergic to any of the ingredients, there is nothing about the individual ingredients that makes me sick, but the mixing of those flavors causes a physical reaction of sickness. I can only conclude that there's something wrong about it that either the people who like it ignore or have trained themselves to like.

    Re: Bugs.

    "Bug" is a category that covers most arthropods as well as several other varieties of invertebrates: A lobster is, in terms of genetics, evolutionary history, and cladistics closer to a spider or roach than it is to anything that most human beings would willingly eat. It has a hard shell, it looks like an alien, and it has the wrong number of legs. Ergo, it's a bug.

    The only reason Lobster has considered a delicacy is because once we had trains able to haul lobster to the midwest before they died, fishermen on the coast would sell it to rubes in the midwest by saying it was a delicacy. People only like it because it's expensive. Before that, a net full of lobster was considered a day of fishing wasted and it was legally considered cruel and unusual punishment to make prisoners eat lobster more than three times a week.
    People have different tastes for different foods. If people like pineapple pizza, then that's great. If people don't like pineapple pizza then that's also great. People can eat whatever they want so I don't understand where'sour complain about different tastes of food coming from?
    Last edited by Bartmanhomer; 2020-10-23 at 06:34 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    "Bug" is a category that specifically only refers to an order of insects. Unless, of course, you would like to revisit that "hot/spicy" thing?
    No, that is "True Bugs" which is a much stricter category than "Bug."

    Unless you want to argue that king crabs, coconut crabs, stone crabs, and porceline crabs aren't actually crabs becuase they don't fit under the the category that was arbitrarily decided to be the "true" crabs.
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  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    No, that is "True Bugs" which is a much stricter category than "Bug."
    No, it's pretty much the same thing. It's just that some people don't know the difference between "bug" and "insect", and since you pointedly noted earlier about some people not knowing the difference between "hot" and "spicy", I couldn't help but think that you would appreciate making the distinction.

    My whole thing here is trying to encourage you to loosen up, if that hasn't been made abundantly clear by now.
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  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Hamburger (angus beef specifically) with swiss cheese, three pineapple rings, teriyaki sauce, and three strips of maple bacon. That is the Hawaiian Burger.



    The acidic nature of the pineapple counteracts the base nature of the tomato sauce and meat on pizza, allowing for a better dining experience in my opinion.

    You are correct on this point and it is actually very important to recognize that Hawaiian pizza has nothing to do with Hawaii (and pineapple has nothing to do with Hawaii either!)



    It matters because Hawaiian pizza and pineapple associations with Hawaii in general related to topics that are not board safe, but are vitally important in the real world. That's as far as I can say though.

    I don't know what makes the person above think pizza's have to be spicy, and um... crustaceans are DEFINITELY insects. A lobster is just a very large bug.
    Lobsters are less related to insects then you are to reptiles, by over 100 million years. Not only do they have different numbers of legs, they have different segmentation .

    Arthropods are a diverse phylum.
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  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    No, it's pretty much the same thing. It's just that some people don't know the difference between "bug" and "insect", and since you pointedly noted earlier about some people not knowing the difference between "hot" and "spicy", I couldn't help but think that you would appreciate making the distinction.

    My whole thing here is trying to encourage you to loosen up, if that hasn't been made abundantly clear by now.
    Okay, since you didn't answer me on the crabs thing...

    Are Turkeys cold-blooded?

    BEcuase, by pure taxonomies, Turkeys--all birds, are reptiles.

    You see, Turkey's are a subset of aviens, which are a subset of dinosaurs, which are still considered to be a subset of reptiles despite mountains of evidence that indicates that dinosaurs were not reptiles (and the fact that Therasuars and Mosasaurs being reptiles is why they're not considered dinosaurs)

    So, if Lobsters are not a bug becuase they aren't part of the taxonomic group arbitrarily dubbed "True Bug," than Turkey's most be cold-blooded as they are, taxonomically, reptiles.
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  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Okay, since you didn't answer me on the crabs thing...

    Are Turkeys cold-blooded?

    BEcuase, by pure taxonomies, Turkeys--all birds, are reptiles.

    You see, Turkey's are a subset of aviens, which are a subset of dinosaurs
    Turkey
    Kingdom: Animalia
    Phylum: Chordata
    Class: Aves
    Order: Galliformes
    Family: Phasianidae
    Subfamily: Meleagridinae
    Genus: Meleagris

    So that's got rid of the "turkeys are a subset of dinosaurs" argument.
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  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Turkey
    Kingdom: Animalia
    Phylum: Chordata
    Class: Aves
    Order: Galliformes
    Family: Phasianidae
    Subfamily: Meleagridinae
    Genus: Meleagris

    So that's got rid of the "turkeys are a subset of dinosaurs" argument.
    Cladistics disagrees with you: Turkey's are birds. All members of the class Aves belong to the clade Theropoda. Theropoda is a subset of the clade Saurischia, which is a subset of the clade Dinosauria, the clade that includes all dinosaurs.

    So yes, Turkery's are dinosaurs. All birds are considered to be dinosaurs.

    Which means, taxonomically, they are reptiles.

    So... By telling me that a lobster is not a bug, you are telling me that turkeys are cold blooded.
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  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    "Cold-blooded" is a trait something can have, not a category.
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  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Cladistics disagrees with you: Turkey's are birds. All members of the class Aves belong to the clade Theropoda. Theropoda is a subset of the clade Saurischia, which is a subset of the clade Dinosauria, the clade that includes all dinosaurs.

    So yes, Turkery's are dinosaurs. All birds are considered to be dinosaurs.

    Which means, taxonomically, they are reptiles.

    So... By telling me that a lobster is not a bug, you are telling me that turkeys are cold blooded.
    Turkeys are of the class Aves. Reptiles are of the class Reptilia. Aves is not Reptilia, so turkeys cannot be reptiles and so turkeys are not a subset of dinosaurs, QED.

    And if this makes no sense because in all probability dinosaurs evolved into birds and dinosaurs shouldn't even have taxonomy (let alone be classified as reptiles) because of how little we know about them to date then dude that is exactly the point I am making. I'm using rhetorical device to show how your argument can lead to ideas you disagree with to showcase how that argument is flawed. Outside of academia, how things are reasonably understood is more important than how things are strictly and restrictively classified. Turkeys are probably evolved from dinosaurs which were probably not reptiles, despite what the formal classification system says. You would call a woodlouse a bug despite what the classification system says. I would call a peanut-butter-and-whatever-pizza a pizza despite what you say a pizza must be.

    Again, I'm trying to encourage you to loosen up. Let people enjoy their peanut butter and pineapple pizzas so long as they aren't forcing you to eat them. Let people say "spicy" when they mean "hot" so long as what they are communicating is clear. You don't need to soapbox other people into accepting IFF distinctions that you think should be in place. It'll be ok.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-10-23 at 07:15 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #225
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Becuase you do not put sweet and juicy fruit on a salty delicious pizza.
    This is as bad as the people who call me weird for eating seafood pizza.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    This is like the crab and lobster thing: Lots of people think it's good even though they're literally eating giant bugs.
    What's wrong with eating bugs? [insert joke about American food regulations here]

    Food dislikes are like veganism. It's fine for you not to eat something, and if I'm cooking for you then I'll follow these as best I can. But when you start telling me wghat I shouldn't eat the discussion ends.

    I'm not vegetarian because I love offal, in many ways the liver and kidneys are the best tasting part of the animal. Other people have this weird aversion to eating offal, annoyingly without ever trying it, because you're not supposed to eat organs or something? Like humans have been doing for thousands of years? Now I'll admit haggis gave me pause, but I've tried it and it's not as terrible as I feared, and I've always loved blood sausages.

    If the idea of eating organs does make you feel weird try lamb hearts. Tastes meaty in a similar fashion to muscle, just mind the valves.

    But at the same time I'm not going to force offal down your throat, because eventually you'll discover the two foods I dislike: walnuts (the texture is just wrong) and beansprouts (which taste of flavourless water).

    I think I've lost track of what I was saying.

    I've never eaten whole crab (just crabcakes), and never eaten lobster, but I'd like to try. I do quite like my shellfish.


    Although I guess I'm a bit late on this, because I now see people arguing over thunder lizards.
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    This is as bad as the people who call me weird for eating seafood pizza.



    What's wrong with eating bugs? [insert joke about American food regulations here]

    Food dislikes are like veganism. It's fine for you not to eat something, and if I'm cooking for you then I'll follow these as best I can. But when you start telling me what I shouldn't eat the discussion ends.

    I'm not vegetarian because I love offal, in many ways the liver and kidneys are the best-tasting part of the animal. Other people have this weird aversion to eating offal, annoyingly without ever trying it, because you're not supposed to eat organs or something? Like humans have been doing for thousands of years? Now I'll admit haggis gave me pause, but I've tried it and it's not as terrible as I feared, and I've always loved blood sausages.

    If the idea of eating organs does make you feel weird try lamb hearts. Tastes meaty in a similar fashion to muscle, just mind the valves.

    But at the same time, I'm not going to force offal down your throat, because eventually, you'll discover the two foods I dislike: walnuts (the texture is just wrong) and beansprouts (which taste of flavorless water).

    I think I've lost track of what I was saying.

    I've never eaten whole crab (just crabcakes) and never eaten lobster, but I'd like to try. I do quite like my shellfish.


    Although I guess I'm a bit late on this because I now see people arguing over thunder lizards.
    I agree. This whole conversation is done to death as it already is. Moving on. I can't wait for Halloween. I'm not going to dress up but I'm going to watch horror movies on Hulu all day.
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  17. - Top - End - #227
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    What's wrong with eating bugs? [insert joke about American food regulations here]
    I was going to make a joke about a book, but I'm going to err on the side of caution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I've never eaten whole crab (just crabcakes), and never eaten lobster, but I'd like to try. I do quite like my shellfish.
    If you ever make it close to the MS gulf coast for any reason, I'll take you to a super tacky casino that has a fantastic buffet. They have snow crab, jonah crab, and dungeoness. Dungeoness is where it's at, let me tell ya. No lobster, you want to be in the near-Canada coasts for that (lobster is also amazing). Anything for my fellow shellfish lover!
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Although I guess I'm a bit late on this, because I now see people arguing over thunder lizards.
    Not at all!
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Cladistics disagrees with you: Turkey's are birds. All members of the class Aves belong to the clade Theropoda. Theropoda is a subset of the clade Saurischia, which is a subset of the clade Dinosauria, the clade that includes all dinosaurs.

    So yes, Turkery's are dinosaurs. All birds are considered to be dinosaurs.

    Which means, taxonomically, they are reptiles.

    So... By telling me that a lobster is not a bug, you are telling me that turkeys are cold blooded.
    No, because Crustaceans were never insects. What you are arguing is analogous to arguing that Turkeys should be considered lizards. They (and us) are reptiles, but their common ancestor was before insects became insects.

    Unless you are using Bug to mean arthropod, which is one of two uses the other being specifically insects which is where that point of contention may be.
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Unless you are using Bug to mean arthropod, which is one of two uses the other being specifically insects which is where that point of contention may be.
    I have already explicitly stated that I am referring to arthropods and a handful of other invertebrates when saying bugs.

    The argument on taxonomy and cladistics was started when Pelee cited that Lobsters are not classified as part of the category that is referred to as "True Bugs" in taxonomy. The Dinosaur argument came when he did not respond to my pointing out that by that logic a king crab isn't a crab becuase it's not part of the group taxonomically considered "true crabs."
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Enough Already!
    Rater: I agree people have mistaken ideas about hot and spicy. I don't care about the rest... you are easy baited, or just don't know when to stop arguing. This whole morning has been more interesting than a Presidential debate, but not as good as the only one I've ever watched (with Wierd Al as moderator).
    Pick a tomato, ride a turkey to Canada and ask a crab if it likes pineapple! (Or to Hawaii and ask a pineapple if it likes lobster) Whatever... its a fun image. But we need to move on, else Rater's going to explode, have a stroke, and/or develop super powers.

    I'm going back to ignoring the AFL Grand Final and try to paint some Space Marines.
    Last edited by Tarmor; 2020-10-23 at 08:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmor View Post
    But we need to move on, else Rater's going to explode, have a stroke, and/or develop super powers.
    So you're saying we need to keep arguing about stuff so that we can settle the debate on whether or not I'd immediately go mad with power if I got super powers.

    (Also, Hindsight: Dark Phonix was a better example than the Hulk for what I was going for.)

    So... Is a Hamburger a sandwich?
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    So... Is a Hamburger a sandwich?
    Hmmm... Does it have real ham?

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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmor View Post
    Hmmm... Does it have real ham?
    In upstate New York they're called "steamed hams".
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    In upstate New York they're called "steamed hams".
    No they aren't. My Uncle from Utica says he's never heard of it. Course he's in a mental institution now. Poor guy, used to be a superintendent until the stress of dealing with one particular school got to him.
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    In upstate New York they're called "steamed hams".
    I'm from Utica and I have never heard of Steamed Hams.
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I'm from Utica and I have never heard of Steamed Hams.
    It's an Albany expression.
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    So... Is a Hamburger a sandwich?
    In the most standard preparation and style of serving, yes, absolutely. If you mean something other than the ground cooked meat patty served between a split bun (plus or minus an assortment of garnishes and condiments) that will usually be referred to differently. 'Hamburger' is more of a categorization than a specific sandwich, tho, as it is almost always named with its most prominent toppings.

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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmor View Post

    I'm going back to ignoring the AFL Grand Final and try to paint some Space Marines.
    Oh hey, what sort of space marines and what legion/chapter?
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2020-10-23 at 09:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmor View Post
    Enough Already!
    Rater: I agree people have mistaken ideas about hot and spicy. I don't care about the rest... you are easy baited, or just don't know when to stop arguing. This whole morning has been more interesting than a Presidential debate, but not as good as the only one I've ever watched (with Wierd Al as moderator).
    Pick a tomato, ride a turkey to Canada and ask a crab if it likes pineapple! (Or to Hawaii and ask a pineapple if it likes lobster) Whatever... it's a fun image. But we need to move on, else Rater's going to explode, have a stroke, and/or develop superpowers.

    I'm going back to ignoring the AFL Grand Final and try to paint some Space Marines.
    Oh, don't get me started on that dumpster fire of the topic which I'm not going to discuss because of forum rules.
    Last edited by Bartmanhomer; 2020-10-23 at 09:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Rater's Ridiculously Rambunctious Random Ranter #229

    I just think it's nuts that people are letting LaZodiac and Rater off the hook trying to claim tomato sauce isn't acidic. LaZodiac even called it base.

    The pH of Pineapple is between 3 and 4. Which makes it an acid. Since base is anything higher than 7 (7 being neutral)

    The pH of canned tomato sauce is less than 3. Canned tomato sauce is more of an acid than the pineapple. Raw tomatoes, if you make the sauce yourself which I'd recommend if you can get the right tomato, is around 4. So the same as a pineapple. Hell, tomatoes even need slightly acidic soil to grow, requiring lower than a 7.5 soil acidity. There is a reason in cooking that you add a little sugar and salt to a tomato sauce and it's to cut the acidity of the sauce. Rosemary, thyme and oregano are also really good flavors for cutting the acidic nature of ingredients. There's a reason they're the generic pizza spices and not just because they're common in Italian cooking.

    Also, if Rater wants to avoid people confusing "spicy" for "hot" when he actually means "has spices" the proper cooking term is "spiced" not "spicy."

    Pineapples also do have something to do with Hawaii. They have tons of pineapple plantations on the islands. They're not endemic to Hawaii but the fruit has a pretty deep history with the islands. None of it positive and all of it against forum rules.
    Last edited by Razade; 2020-10-23 at 10:12 PM.

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