Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 182
  1. - Top - End - #31
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm View Post
    As an avid GA: Death player, magnetize your stuff as foam's protection is inversely proportional to the amount of spindly bits on the model. strong magnets on the base a bit of ventilation siding in a box is surprisingly effective transport method.
    Since I play Space Marines, never had an issue with spiky bits rubbing foam and scratching off the paint.
    Since I like bright colours (I paint 40K wrong, don't worry about it), I have never felt the need to run the risk and varnish my models.

    However, now that I play D&D, my minis are all sorts of shapes and sizes, and foam is Not Good (*Fantano explosion*), but I still don't want to varnish my models, because I still like bright colours, and spraying everything with matte makes me sad.

    I have found that a better solution is to use Washers (which are cheaper than GW bases...). They add a lot of weight to the model. But, I've found that using actual magnets may run a risk, because when painting and playing DND, I find that my minis are almost always near someone's phone or other electrical device, and I often place minis near my laptop on my desk, and I regularly put my minis on top of my laptop when I'm working out encounters and stuff. So yeah, magnets in models' bases is not for me. But washers are plentiful and cheap from literally any hardware store.

    x50 25mm bases for $7 (AUD). For reference, in Australia, GW sells 10 bases for $7. ****. I can go to Bunnings, buy 50 bases, and still have $3 left over from a tenner to get a sausage sizzle. (It's an Australia thing...You wouldn't get it).

    Then go to an arts store (or, since it's Bunnings, literally just stay in the store forever), and buy some magnetic strips, and done.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-10-13 at 08:01 AM.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Dragonus45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraunograf View Post
    I've just always had people go with the foam luggage container basically. Cut holes that are exactly the sizes of your models, have one for each army you drag around. A little bit of a pain to pack and unpack, but not that bad and your models are perfectly safe.
    Foam worked for me back when I played tau when (uhhh is there a specific term for the clear base extender thing a jump unit goes on?) was straight but I've been looking for somewhere to put my painted sister, most of which are seraphim and zepherim, and I'm not sure foam is going to work as well for me for these newer curved base extender things.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    is there a specific term for the clear base extender thing a jump unit goes on?
    Flight stand.

    but I've been looking for somewhere to put my painted sister, most of which are seraphim and zepherim, and I'm not sure foam is going to work as well for me for these newer curved base extender things.
    As my previous post. Super-gluing a washer underneath a base - or using one straight up as the base - gives your model some decent weight to lower the centre of gravity, which makes it easier to use during gameplay, as well. And then in your storage or transport cases, magnetic strips.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-10-13 at 08:34 AM.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Since I play Space Marines, never had an issue with spiky bits rubbing foam and scratching off the paint.
    Since I like bright colours (I paint 40K wrong, don't worry about it), I have never felt the need to run the risk and varnish my models.

    However, now that I play D&D, my minis are all sorts of shapes and sizes, and foam is Not Good (*Fantano explosion*), but I still don't want to varnish my models, because I still like bright colours, and spraying everything with matte makes me sad.

    I have found that a better solution is to use Washers (which are cheaper than GW bases...). They add a lot of weight to the model. But, I've found that using actual magnets may run a risk, because when painting and playing DND, I find that my minis are almost always near someone's phone or other electrical device, and I often place minis near my laptop on my desk, and I regularly put my minis on top of my laptop when I'm working out encounters and stuff. So yeah, magnets in models' bases is not for me. But washers are plentiful and cheap from literally any hardware store.

    x50 25mm bases for $7 (AUD). For reference, in Australia, GW sells 10 bases for $7. ****. I can go to Bunnings, buy 50 bases, and still have $3 left over from a tenner to get a sausage sizzle. (It's an Australia thing...You wouldn't get it).

    Then go to an arts store (or, since it's Bunnings, literally just stay in the store forever), and buy some magnetic strips, and done.
    I magnetize mine, but yes I've seen issues where people's Daemonettes snap together at the base, or you find out that there's a metal bar under the table and someone's Bloodthirster keeps pulling backwards from combat because the magnets want to attach to the bar.

    But, the magnets are super convenient. I just bought some cake trays to pop my whole army onto and have had 0 issues. I also bought some metal movement trays from MiniMagTray (UK based company) and it made playing Bonesplitterz super easy. But I've seen people with washers attach magnets to MDF move trays for similar results, just a bit more work.

    I've found that sheet magnets (the type on the back of fridge magnets) are better than the rare earth ones. They're not as strong, so you don't get the "hugging infantry" issues, but still strong enough to make transporting safe. I just glue them on the base, trim to size, and call it a day. You can buy em for like a buck per sheet and one sheet will cover something like 20-30+ infantry models, depending on how snug you put them on and how little waste ends up. It's a bit less useful for big models, where I still use a couple rare earth magnets.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Dragonus45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Flight stand.
    Ah, thank you.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Durham, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    On magnets and bases, Iím currently having the delight of magnetising the Terminators from Space Hulk, so I can still use them in Space Hulk but also in 40k. Itís working quite well, thought there were a few unfortunate overdrilling incidents, which required the addition of skulls to cover over. Skulls fix everything.
    Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Dragonus45's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    On magnets and bases, Iím currently having the delight of magnetising the Terminators from Space Hulk, so I can still use them in Space Hulk but also in 40k. Itís working quite well, thought there were a few unfortunate overdrilling incidents, which required the addition of skulls to cover over. Skulls fix everything.
    I'm working on my second magnetization experiments this weekend on some Retributers. It's harder then it looks that's for sure.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Durham, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    I'm working on my second magnetization experiments this weekend on some Retributers. It's harder then it looks that's for sure.
    What Iíve found works is to drill a pilot hole with a pin vise hand drill, then very slowly use a power drill with a bit the necessary size to widen the hole. And I mean slowly. As slow as it can go while still actually moving.

    Also, it seems really obvious when you say it, but you can put paper over magnets while positioning and gluing them to make sure they donít glue to each other. Allows gluing in situ, rather than needing to guess at the exact fit when gluing apart.
    Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Brookshw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    What Iíve found works is to drill a pilot hole with a pin vise hand drill, then very slowly use a power drill with a bit the necessary size to widen the hole. And I mean slowly. As slow as it can go while still actually moving.

    Also, it seems really obvious when you say it, but you can put paper over magnets while positioning and gluing them to make sure they donít glue to each other. Allows gluing in situ, rather than needing to guess at the exact fit when gluing apart.
    I've found on occasion that reinforcing the magnet with a bit of green stuff can be helpful; usually this came up with Nid's big monsters where the magnet would keep popping out of the joint after a few games, a bit of green stuff around the top helped keep in in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Avatar courtesy of Linklele

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    So the next special edition miniature is a Terminator Chaplain. Chalk up another one for the Firstborn?
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  11. - Top - End - #41
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    So the next special edition miniature is a Terminator Chaplain. Chalk up another one for the Firstborn?
    The CAD is strong with this one.
    I thought I'd seen it before.
    I looked up the last Terminator Chaplain.
    It's basically exactly the same.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Durham, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The CAD is strong with this one.
    I thought I'd seen it before.
    I looked up the last Terminator Chaplain.
    It's basically exactly the same.
    Hey now, this one has TWO crux terminatus for some reason, one on each shoulder!

    I can only imagine that GW uses Terminator characters to teach people how to use the tools they have, then release them for special occasions. Itís very silly to still be putting out Terminators when everything else is Primaris.
    Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Spoiler: Chapter Tactics
    Show
    Dark Angels: If your model hasn't moved this turn, gain +1 to hit. This is pretty good, since it cancels out all the -1 to hits that good units have, and additionally it helps you not die in your opponent's turn when they Charge you. But, in the current edition, Melee is either 0/10 or 10/10, with no middle ground. If your opponent is charging you, chances are that they know what they're doing, and +1 to hit isn't going to help you. If your unit is strong melee unit anyway, +1 to hit, also wont help you. Additionally, Dark Angels always pass Combat Attrition tests...WTF are Astartes armies taking Attrition tests for?

    White Scars: Advance or Fall Back, and Charge, in the same turn. Very strong with the right units, since it's highly unlikely that your opponent will waste CPs by trying to Overwatch...Besides, they can only do it once, and you have more than one unit. Bait it out. Additionally, you White Scars can Advance and Shoot, no penalties. Pretty strong. White Scars pretty good.

    Space Wolves: When you Charge, or were Charged, you get +1 to hit on your melee attacks. Additionally, every unit you own can perform Heroic Interventions. You're way better off playing with White Scars, since at least they can get into Melee on their terms.

    Imperial Fists: All of your models ignore Light Cover. Who cares. The only terrain that should matter is Dense and/or Obscuring Terrain. Light Cover is...Eh. Additionally, every time a model fires a 'Bolt' weapon, they gain an additional hit on a '6' to hit. This next bit is pretty good, is Bolt weapons tend to have a lot of shots, and almost every unit you own, is going to feature a Bolt weapon.

    Crimson Fists: +1 to hit vs. units with 5 or more models than your attacking unit. <Vehicles> count as 5 models. This is ****. Who is running units of 10+ models? Additionally, Crimson Fists have the same 'Bolt' weapon ability that Imperial Fists do. Neat. Imperial Fists are better, while ignoring Light Cover isn't anything to write home about. It's likely to come up more than somebody running units with 10+ models.

    Black Templars: Re-roll Advance and Charge rolls. This is especially strong if you're playing a Reserve-heavy army and all your melee units just so happen to start 9" away from your opponent every time. Additionally, Black Templars have Ignore Wounds (5+) vs. Mortal Wounds.

    Blood Angels: +1 to Advance and Charge. Additionally, when you Charge or are Charged, gain +1 to wound. Very strong, and dunks on both Dark Angels and Space Wolves, since +1 to wound, is way better than +1 to hit.

    Flesh Tearers: When you Charge or are Charged, +1 to wound. Additionally, melee attacks by Flesh Tearers increase their AP when you roll a '6' to wound, which doesn't stack with the first ability. WTF? But does stack with Assault Doctrine...Which is Turn 3. Which is way too late 'cause your Reserves were already in combat by Turn 2, and why aren't you playing Black Templars which are the same, except better? ...You're right. Blood Angels-specific units.

    Iron Hands: Ignore Wounds (6+). Additionally, Vehicles count as having double wounds for their damage table (if any). Giving Vehicles the ability to ignore wounds, and also making them still good even if they do take wounds, means that Iron Hands are obviously the Chapter that has the best Vehicles - if that's your jam. However, just by having Ignore Wounds, all of the tough Space Marine units, are simply that much tougher. Which allows you to hold Objectives better, and allows you to shoot more in later turns 'cause your units aren't dead. Very strong Chapter.

    Ultramarines: +1 Leadership. Fall Back and Shoot with -1 to hit. You should do this if your opponent is going to give you -1 to hit anyway (e.g; Craftworlds). Not a great Chapter Tactic. But, the strength of Ultramarines is in their Unique characters, not with their Chapter Tactics.

    Salamanders: Every time a unit shoots or fights, you can re-roll one to wound roll. Additionally, Salamanders ignore the AP on AP-1 weapons. This is really good since 'AP affects everyone equally' no longer applies to Salamanders, which means that your opponents need to bring AP- weapons, which do nothing, or AP-2 weapons, which cost points. Generally speaking, you should be able to counter what most opponents are doing, unless they are specifically tailoring against you. Salamanders are pretty good. Against many match-ups, they are better than Iron Hands.

    Raven Guard: If your opponent is 18", you count as being in Light Cover...+1 save isn't that great (well, for Vehicles it's amazing...). Additionally, <Infantry>, in any Terrain feature, gain the benefit of Dense Cover if the attacking unit is 12" or more away. Yeah...Okay. That's ridiculously strong.

    Deathwatch: Re-roll 1s to hit in Melee only, vs. <Tyranids>, <Aeldari>, <Ork>, <Necrons> or <T'au> units. Additionally, after deployment (after you've seen your opponent's army and had a guess at their tactics), Deathwatch units gain rr1 to wound vs. any one Battlefield Role for the game.


    Spoiler: Successor Tactics
    Show
    Being a Successor Chapter does not prevent you from using Space Marine Supplements. You still have a parent Chapter, and gain all (or rather, most) of the abilities therein.

    Bolter Fusillades: Re-roll 1s to hit with Bolt weapons.

    Born Heroes: Only when you Charge, gain +1 to hit with Melee attacks.

    Duellists: When <Infantry> or <Biker> units roll a '6' to hit in Melee, that attack automatically wounds. Does not stack with Whirlwind of Rage.

    Fearsome Aspect: All of your units gain an Aura. Enemy units within 3" have -1 Leadership. Who cares?

    Hungry for Battle: +1 to Advance and Charge.

    Indomitable: Auto-pass Combat Attrition tests. What are you taking Combat Attrition tests for?

    Inheritors of the Primarch: You gain the Chapter Tactic of a First Founding Chapter.

    Knowledge is Power: You rr1s when making a Psychic or Deny the Witch tests. Your army is more than a few Librarians. Do not take this. Ever.

    Long-range Marksmen: Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons (not 'Flame' weapons) gain +3" range.

    Master Artisans: Whenever a unit shoots or fights, you can re-roll one to hit roll. Not great.

    Preferred Enemy: You re-roll 1s in melee vs. a specific Faction that you picked during list creation. That makes this mostly useless, unless you already know who you're going to play, and they're not playing an Imperial Faction.

    Rapid Assault: Advance and shoot Assault weapons. No penalty.

    Scions of the Forge: Your Vehicles count as having double wounds for their damage table. Pretty good.

    Stalwart: To wound rolls of 1 or 2 always fail against you. This makes S8, 9 and 10 weapons less good in your opponent's list. Unfortunately, the way to kill Space Marines is to run S5, 6 and 7, so it's not like this Successor Tactic is particularly useful.

    Stealthy: If your attacker is over 18" away, you are in Light Cover (+1 Armour Sv.). This is very good, or very useless. Depending on how you've built your army. If you already know that you want to play a gunline, go for it.

    Stoic: +1 Leadership doesn't mean anything.

    Tactical Withdrawl: Fall Back and Charge in the same turn. Yep. Units can barely Overwatch. Roll hard.

    Warded: Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+). Highly situational. You're better off ignoring 2s to wound.

    Whirlwind of Rage: If you Charge or are Charged, a '6' to hit, scores an extra hit. Doesn't stack with Duellists...Which is better anyway.


    Spoiler: Chapter Command
    Show
    Pay points to give certain characters some pretty decent buffs, as well as access to an extra Warlord Trait, and an extra Relic. Remember, you pay points for access to the Warlord Traits and Relics, you don't just get them.

    Chapter Master: Coming out of a <Captain>, a Chapter Master lets you pick a Core unit or Character to re-roll all their hits until your next turn. Pretty solid.
    • Warlord Trait; Roll a 4+, gain a CP.
    • Relic; Sv 2+, +1W and T. Great. Literally everyone should run Captain on Bike now, yes?

    Master of Sanctity: A <Chaplain> knows and can Recite an additional Litany.
    • Warlord Trait; +1 to Recite, and, Commanding Oratory only costs 1 CP when used on this model.
    • Relic; When your opponent targets this model, attacks can't be re-rolled - neither to hit, to wound or damage.

    Master of the Forge: <Techmarine>. Blessing of the Omnissiah heals 3 Wounds, instead of D3.
    • Warlord Trait; <Dreadnoughts> within 6" gain +1S and +1A. Pfft.
    • Relic; Your Power Axe is now a lite-Thunder Hammer, that deals Mortal Wounds to <Vehicles>. Not great.

    Chief Librarian: <Librarian>, obviously. Know and Manifest an extra Power.
    • Warlord Trait; +1 to Psychic tests. Lame
    • Relic; Psychic Hood goes for 24", now. Not great.

    Chief Apothecary: Heal twice per turn.
    • Warlord Trait; Heal 3 Wounds, instead of D3. Additionally, Combat Revival costs 0 CPs. YEAH, OKAY THEN.
    • Acquittal; Perhaps the best Pistol I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it's still a Pistol.

    Chapter Ancient: Select a Core Unit and give it +1 to hit in Melee, until your next turn.
    • Warlord Trait; All Core Units within 6" gain Objective Secured. If a unit already has Objective Secured, each model counts as 2. Holy ****. If this Trait was on anything other than an Ancient, there'd be Riots.
    • Relic; When a model procs Astartes Banner, it can make two Melee attacks, instead of one.

    Chapter Champion: Enemy models have -1 to hit in Melee. Re-roll to wound vs. <Characters>. 5 Attacks, Leadership 9.
    • Warlord Traits; Core Units or Characters within 6" can re-roll Charges.
    • Relic; Another Thunder Hammer-lite. Except unlike Techmarines, Chapter Champions actually want to hang out in Melee real bad.


    Spoiler: Stratagems
    Show
    Death to the Traitors!: When a unit makes Melee attacks vs. Heretic Astartes, re-roll to hit.

    Honour the Chapter (2): An Assault Intercessor unit that's engaged, can Fight again at the end of the phase. Really pushing Melee Marines. For 2CPs, and it only targets Assault Intercessors? What a joke.

    Fury of the First: Until the end of a phase, one of your Terminator units has +1 to hit.

    Transhuman Physiology (1/2): Target Primaris unit can't be wounded on <4+ for a phase. 1CP for <6 models. 2 CPs for 6+ models. Yet another reason for Space Marine armies to not have units with more than 5 models.

    Rapid Fire (2): An Intercessor unit can shoot a second time at the end of your phase - it'd better be 2 CPs!

    Gene-Wrought Might: When target Primaris unit rolls 6s to hit in Melee, auto-wound.

    Unyielding in the Face of the Foe: When a Gravis unit is attacked by 1-Damage weapons, +1 Save. Goes for whole phase. Sure would be real strong if there was a Chapter that also ignored AP-1 weapons.

    Only in Death does Duty End (2): When a Character dies in the Fight phase, if it hasn't already Fought yet, Fight with it. Still, you're better off fighting with your Characters as early as possible. First, characters deal the most damage - usually. Second, why waste 2 CPs?

    Armour of Contempt: A Vehicle gains Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+) for a phase.

    Power of the Machine Spirit (2): A Machine Spirit model in your army counts as having full wounds for their Damage table. Very strong. Worth 2 CPs, easily.

    Wisdom of the Ancients: Target Dreadnought unit gains; Core units within 6" can re-roll to hit or to wound. Choose when you pop the Stratagem. Can't use this on Death Company or Wulfen Dreadnoughts.

    Commanding Oratory (2): Basically, a Chaplain gets an extra Inspire when it isn't even the Command phase.

    Combat Revival: An Apothecary can bring an <Infantry> or <Biker> model back with full wounds, no roll required.
    This is a pretty big reason for Invader ATVs to come in Squadrons. So your Apothecary can bring one back for 1 CP...Or even for free. 'Cause GW. Expect a nerf to Invaders, or to Apothecaries...Or both.

    Relic of the Chapter: Gain another Relic. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hero of the Chapter: Gain another Warlord Trait. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hit-and-Run Warfare: A Biker, Land Speeder or Storm Speeder can Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn.

    Hammer of Wrath: When a Jump Pack unit finishes a Charge move, roll vs. your opponent's Toughness for each model in your unit that makes it to Engagment. Deal Mortal Wounds.

    Skilled Riders: If a Biker, Land Speeder or Storm Speeder unit Advances in your Turn, your opponent has -1 to hit them in their Shooting phase.

    Uncompromising Fire (2): An Infantry unit can perform an [Action] and Shoot, in the same turn. Hooray!

    Steady Advance (2): When an Infantry unit makes a normal move, just kidding, it counts as being stationary.

    Adaptive Strategy (2): Choose a Core unit within 6" of your Warlord. Until your next turn, that unit has any Combat Doctrine it wants. Yes please.

    Suppression Fire: If a Whirlwind hits a unit using a Blast attack, that unit can't Overwatch, can't Set to Defend, and gains Always Strikes Last until your next turn.

    Terror Troops (2): Target Reiver unit gains an Aura: Enemy units within 3" lose Objective Secured, holy ****! Additionally, if the targeted Reiver unit is within 3" of an enemy unit performing an Action, roll 2d6 vs. their Leadership. The Action automatically fails.

    Guerilla Tactics: Put a Phobos unit on the board, into Reserves. Very strong.

    Orbital Bombardment (3): Once per game. If your Warlord is on the board, choose a point on the board. Units within 6" of that point start taking Mortal Wounds, unless you roll a '1' or something dumb.

    Auspex Scan (2): When a unit arrives from Reinforcements, a unit of yours can shoot at it if they show up within 12". Can be fairly limiting. But if your opponent is abusing the **** out of 9e's Reserve rules, you're gonna need the 2 CPs.

    Tremor Shells: Give one of your own Thunderfire Cannons -1 to wound; If it hits a unit that isn't Titanic and doesn't Fly, that unit halves their Move, and has -2 to Advance and Charge until your next turn.

    Shock and Awe: When a Land Speeder Storm (not a Storm Speeder, GW doesn't know other words again) or unit with Shock Grenades shoots, the targeted unit can't fire Overwatch or Set to Defend, and has -1 to hit until your next turn.

    Assault Launchers: When an Assault Launchers Vehicle Charges, the targeted unit can either brace or duck for cover. A Braced unit takes D3 Mortal Wounds. A unit that ducks for cover loses an attack per model (with no minimum?), and can't Overwatch or Set to Defend.

    Melta Bomb: When a Melta Bomb targets a Vehicle in the Fight phase, roll to hit, and deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Grav Pulse: When a model has a Repulsor Field, do one of the following; Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn. Or, when Charged, your opponent has -2 to Charge your unit.

    Hellfire Shells: When an Infantry model shoots a Heavy Bolter, make one to hit roll, and deal D3 Mortal Wounds. Against Monsters, deal 3 Mortal Wounds.
    Monsters bad, Vehicles good. Classic GW.

    Flakk Missile: When an Infantry model with a Missile Launcher targets an Aircraft, make an attack with +1 to hit (i.e; Cancelling out most Aircraft's -1 to hit). Deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Smokescreen: When a Smokescreeen unit is targeted, your opponent has -1 to hit.


    Spoiler: Warlord Traits
    Show
    Space Marines
    1. Enemy units within 6" have -1 to Leadership, and have -1 to Combat Attrition.
    2. Warlord re-rolls Charges, and when it Charges, gain +1S and +1A.
    3. +1W and Ignore Wounds (6+)
    4. When your Warlord is Engaged with a Character, +1A...Whether you attack the Character or not. However, against Characters, your Warlord also has +1 to hit and wound.
    5. Core Units within 6" improve the AP of their attacks by -1, on a 6 to wound.
    6. Core Units and Characters within 6" have Objective Secured.

    Phobos Warlord Traits
    1. A Phobos unit within 6" that has attacked in the Shooting phase, can Move or Advance. It cannot Charge.
    2. Redeploy up to 3 Phobos units. Including putting them into Reserves. This doesn't cost CPs.
    3. All Phobos units within 6" have +1 to Move, Advance, Fall Back and Charge.
    4. Your Warlord can't be targeted at all by ranged attacks, unless it's the closest model to the attacker.
    5. A Phobos unit within 6" gains +1 to hit on their ranged attacks.
    6. Your Warlord's ranged weapons have +1 Damage - does not include Grenades or Relics.

    Dark Angels: Pick a unit within 6", and instead of whatever Combat Doctrine your army is currently on, the unit has the previous Doctrine until your next turn. This is pretty good.

    White Scars: When your Warlord completes a Charge, roll a 2+, and deal a Mortal Wound. No.

    Space Wolves: +1 Attack and to hit and wound vs. Monsters and Vehicles in the Fight phase. Lame.

    Imperial Fists: If a Core Unit within 6" already has the benefit of (Light? Dense?) Cover, they ignore the AP of AP-1 attacks. So basically you get to ignore Ignore Cover. Not great.

    Crimson Fists: When your Warlord dies, roll a 4+, and stand back up with D3 Wounds. Can not be used with Only in Death Does Duty End, nor trigger an Astartes Banner. But you can use those things the 'second' time your Warlord is destroyed.

    Black Templars: Heroic Intervene 6". Hard pass.

    Blood Angels: Always Strike First. Situational. But not useless.

    Flesh Tearers: Gain +D3 attacks if there are 5+ enemy models within 3".

    Iron Hands: Your Warlord can repair 1 Wound to a Vehicle per turn. If your Warlord is a Techmarine, Blessing of the Omnissiah heals D3+1. ****. If your Warlord is a Techmarine, you should be using a Master of the Forge, and you don't even need to be Iron Hands to do that. This Warlord Trait is dumb.

    Ultramarines: Whenever you spend a CP, roll a 5+, and refund it. Remembering that you can only refund one CP per Round, so this isn't that good.

    Salamanders: Your Warlord has +2 Strength. Strap your Relic Blades on.

    Raven Guard: Once per game, your Warlord is put into Reinforcements, and reappears in your next turn, following the rules for Reinforcements for that turn.

    Deathwatch: Select a Core Unit within 6", that unit gains rr1 to wound vs. another Battlefield Role.


    Spoiler: Relics
    Show
    Placeholder 'til Mathhammer


    Spoiler: Powers
    Show
    Librariaus Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". Target unit re-rolls Advance and Charge rolls, and gains Always Strikes First.
    2. WC6, 12". Target Core Unit or Character gains +1S, T and A.
    3. WC7, Self, 6". All units - friendly and enemy - within range lose their Invulnerable saves, and enemy Psykers within range halve their Psychic tests.
    4. WC6, 18". Roll off vs. target unit's Leadership. Deal Mortal Wounds. Decent targeted attack against enemy Characters.
    5. WC6, 18". Draw a line between any part of the Psyker's base, and any part of the model's base (OR HULL). Every enemy unit under the line takes a Mortal Wound. It's interesting that you can manage to not hit your own units with the 'line'.
    6. WC6, 6". Friendly units within range have a 5+ Invulnerable. Very good.

    Obscuration Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". Target unit can't be targeted with ranged attacks, unless it's the closest unit to the attacker. Very good.
    2. WC6, 18". Target unit gains rr1 to hit with shooting attacks, and ignores cover.
    3. WC6, 18". Deal a Mortal Wound to an enemy model. If the model is a Character, roll 3d6 vs. their Leadership, gain a CP.
    4. WC6, 18". Target unit has -1 Leadership, and has -1 to hit.
    5. WC7, 18". Target unit that can't Fly, takes a Mortal Wound, and halves their Move value, and takes -2 to Advance and Charge.
    6. WC5, 6". Target Phobos unit can't Shoot or Fight this turn...Umm...But can make a normal Move, or auto-Advance +6". Situational.

    Litanies of Battle
    0. 6". Core units and Characters can re-roll to hit in the Fight phase.
    1. 6". Core units and Characters gain Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+).
    2. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to wound on Shooting attacks vs. the closest eligible target.
    3. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to wound in the Fight phase.
    4. Self. The Priest gains +1S and A, and Melee weapons (including Relics) gain +1 Damage.
    5. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to hit in the Shooting phase.
    6. 6". Core units and Characters gain +2 to Charge which doesn't stack with any other bonuses to Charge. Additionally, units can Pile-In and Consolidate 6". Which is real good, if that's what you're going for.


    Spoiler: Secondary Objectives
    Show
    If your army contains only Adeptus Astartes models, Agents of the Imperium, and Unaligned models, and your Warlord is an Astartes, you may choose one of the following, in place of any other Secondary Objective.

    Codex Warfare (Purge):
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Heavy or Grenade weapon, whilst Devastator Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Rapid Fire or Assault weapon, whilst Tactical Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Pistol or Melee weapon, whilst Assault Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    This Secondary is...Not great. Since it encourages you to not destroy your opponent's models as fast as you can on Turn 1 with all your Heavy weapons because you can only destroy 5 units before you run out of points. Second, it slows down everything else, too, because now you're disincentivised to take out units with small arms fire on Turn 1. Just, no. Furthermore, this Secondary is problematic for Chapters who want to be in Melee on Turn 1 (e.g; White Scars) or Turn 2 (e.g; Black Templars), because you're doing all your Melee damage before Assault Doctrine is even up. Another problem with this Objective is that it competes with other Purge Objectives, which are a lot easier, and allow your Assassins that you run (Agents of the Imperium) to actually do their job and take out your opponent's Characters.
    (inb4; "This Objective is good because it provides disincentives to dunking on Turn 1." Incorrect. People just wont take this Objective in the first place.)

    Shock Tactics (Battlefield Supremacy): At the end of the round, gain 3 VPs if you took an Objective from your opponent. This is doable. But also it's harder to do if you go first, because the Objective is scored at the end of the round, rather than Turn, which the other Supremacy Objectives, do. If you're taking Objectives from your opponent, you may as well be scoring Linebreaker, instead, because Linebreaker scores at the end of your turn, and your opponent can't stop you. But doesn't Shock Tactics stack with going for Primary Objectives, too? Primary Objectives are equally as problematic, because your opponent can stop you, and now they're getting a two-fer, and they're more incentivised to shoot your units off of Objectives. Finally, if you're stealing Objectives off of your opponents, you really should be using the Domination Objective, instead.
    The only way this Secondary is viable, is if you go Second. However, choosing your Secondaries happens long before you determine who goes first, Hell, you haven't even picked your DZ sides yet.

    Oaths of Moment (No Mercy, No Respite):
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if an Astartes unit destroyed a Character, Vehicle or Monster. Once again, this encourages slower destruction, because you have to 'save' your opponents models for later turns. Additionally, your Assassins that you may or may not have brought to the table, can't contribute.
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if none of your Astartes units failed a Morale test, or Fell Back. Astartes don't fail Morale tests, they just die. So that's easy. However, the second part is a bit harder to reconcile, especially for Chapters that love Falling Back (e.g; White Scars, Raven Guard), and removes very good tactical options from your arsenal (e.g; Land Speeder Hit & Runs).
    - Gain 2 VPs at the end of a Round if one of your Astartes units is wholly within 6" of the middle of the battlefield. Should be doable. Especially if you've accidentally gone second.

    This is arguably the 'best' Astartes Objective, and you can only choose one, so choose this one. Just as importantly, this is a No Mercy, No Respite Objective, which has very little competition. Alternatively, pick an [Action] Objective to do and burn 2CPs every turn to still shoot with the extremely strong Stratagem since it actively contributes to winning the game.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-10-18 at 12:12 AM.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Since I play Space Marines, never had an issue with spiky bits rubbing foam and scratching off the paint.
    Since I like bright colours (I paint 40K wrong, don't worry about it), I have never felt the need to run the risk and varnish my models.
    Not so much the rubbing off paint, but having models stick to, dig into or othervise poke the foam is a problem for models that are overly complex. If you paly Dwarfs or Space Marines storage was enver an issue. For everyone lese trying to customize trays was a bother.

    The real kick in the pants is when you done that and you shake the case enough, maybe some flight crew got hold of your case, the parts shift, grab hold of the foam and snap. All the while supposedly carried safe in customized foamtrays. if you are lucky it's just a badly superglued join that fails at the seam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I've found that sheet magnets (the type on the back of fridge magnets) are better than the rare earth ones. They're not as strong, so you don't get the "hugging infantry" issues, but still strong enough to make transporting safe. I just glue them on the base, trim to size, and call it a day. You can buy em for like a buck per sheet and one sheet will cover something like 20-30+ infantry models, depending on how snug you put them on and how little waste ends up. It's a bit less useful for big models, where I still use a couple rare earth magnets.
    The trick with magnetizing is you need 2 things, magnet and enough ferrous on the other side. You can increase magnet if not got enough ferrous but at some point it gets dangerous to others. Lol @ Bloodthirster moving by itself. Ideally you want to balance it. I found a product called "steel paper" which was thin steel clad in paper, could be cut with scissors (don't ruin mom's special one!) and excellent for lining the bottom of WHFB moment trays. For most plastic minis sheetmagnet and steelpaper was enough. But the trick is you really need to make sure you get a flat contact. I've had to fill the bases of hundreds of Skaven models to get sheetmagnet to perfectly touch the movementtray. I found you could buy sheet magnets in tape form which cuts down on the amount of cutting you have to do. If really lucky can get it exactly to the size of the bases, though for me for aesthetic reasons I prefered the fill-base-up-and-glue-tape-inside-base method.

    My master piece is my last WHFB army, Skaven. The models are magnetic taped in the base. The moment trays have sheet metal inserts, as well as magnetic tape beneath that fit perfectly to the height of the lip of a standard GW modular movementtray. Then I got some boxes and put down thin sheetmetal cut to size that the movement trays complete with figs on can attach to. Then GW blew up WHFB and my work was wasted. Eff GW.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Spoiler: Stratagems
    Show
    Death to the Traitors!: When a unit makes Melee attacks vs. Heretic Astartes, re-roll to hit.

    Honour the Chapter (2): An Assault Intercessor unit that's engaged, can Fight again at the end of the phase. Really pushing Melee Marines. For 2CPs, and it only targets Assault Intercessors? What a joke.

    Fury of the First: Until the end of a phase, one of your Terminator units has +1 to hit.

    Transhuman Physiology (1/2): Target Primaris unit can't be wounded on <4+ for a phase. 1CP for <6 models. 2 CPs for 6+ models. Yet another reason for Space Marine armies to not have units with more than 5 models.

    Rapid Fire (2): An Intercessor unit can shoot a second time at the end of your phase - it'd better be 2 CPs!

    Gene-Wrought Might: When target Primaris unit rolls 6s to hit in Melee, auto-wound.

    Unyielding in the Face of the Foe: When a Gravis unit is attacked by 1-Damage weapons, +1 Save. Goes for whole phase. Sure would be real strong if there was a Chapter that also ignored AP-1 weapons.

    Only in Death does Duty End (2): When a Character dies in the Fight phase, if it hasn't already Fought yet, Fight with it. Still, you're better off fighting with your Characters as early as possible. First, characters deal the most damage - usually. Second, why waste 2 CPs?

    Armour of Contempt: A Vehicle gains Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+) for a phase.

    Power of the Machine Spirit (2): A Machine Spirit model in your army counts as having full wounds for their Damage table. Very strong. Worth 2 CPs, easily.

    Wisdom of the Ancients: Target Dreadnought unit gains; Core units within 6" can re-roll to hit or to wound. Choose when you pop the Stratagem. Can't use this on Death Company or Wulfen Dreadnoughts.

    Commanding Oratory (2): Basically, a Chaplain gets an extra Inspire when it isn't even the Command phase.

    Combat Revival: An Apothecary can bring an <Infantry> or <Biker> model back with full wounds, no roll required.
    This is a pretty big reason for Invader ATVs to come in Squadrons. So your Apothecary can bring one back for 1 CP...Or even for free. 'Cause GW. Expect a nerf to Invaders, or to Apothecaries...Or both.

    Relic of the Chapter: Gain another Relic. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hero of the Chapter: Gain another Warlord Trait. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hit-and-Run Warfare: A Biker, Land Speeder or Storm Speeder can Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn.

    Hammer of Wrath: When a Jump Pack unit finishes a Charge move, roll vs. your opponent's Toughness for each model in your unit that makes it to Engagment. Deal Mortal Wounds.

    Skilled Riders: If a Biker, Land Speeder or Storm Speeder unit Advances in your Turn, your opponent has -1 to hit them in their Shooting phase.

    Uncompromising Fire (2): An Infantry unit can perform an [Action] and Shoot, in the same turn. Hooray!

    Steady Advance (2): When an Infantry unit makes a normal move, just kidding, it counts as being stationary.

    Adaptive Strategy (2): Choose a Core unit within 6" of your Warlord. Until your next turn, that unit has any Combat Doctrine it wants. Yes please.

    Suppression Fire: If a Whirlwind hits a unit using a Blast attack, that unit can't Overwatch, can't Set to Defend, and gains Always Strikes Last until your next turn.

    Terror Troops (2): Target Reiver unit gains an Aura: Enemy units within 3" lose Objective Secured, holy ****! Additionally, if the targeted Reiver unit is within 3" of an enemy unit performing an Action, roll 2d6 vs. their Leadership. The Action automatically fails.

    Guerilla Tactics: Put a Phobos unit on the board, into Reserves. Very strong.

    Orbital Bombardment (3): Once per game. If your Warlord is on the board, choose a point on the board. Units within 6" of that point start taking Mortal Wounds, unless you roll a '1' or something dumb.

    Auspex Scan (2): When a unit arrives from Reinforcements, a unit of yours can shoot at it if they show up within 12". Can be fairly limiting. But if your opponent is abusing the **** out of 9e's Reserve rules, you're gonna need the 2 CPs.

    Tremor Shells: Give one of your own Thunderfire Cannons -1 to wound; If it hits a unit that isn't Titanic and doesn't Fly, that unit halves their Move, and has -2 to Advance and Charge until your next turn.

    Shock and Awe: When a Land Speeder Storm (not a Storm Speeder, GW doesn't know other words again) or unit with Shock Grenades shoots, the targeted unit can't fire Overwatch or Set to Defend, and has -1 to hit until your next turn.

    Assault Launchers: When an Assault Launchers Vehicle Charges, the targeted unit can either brace or duck for cover. A Braced unit takes D3 Mortal Wounds. A unit that ducks for cover loses an attack per model (with no minimum?), and can't Overwatch or Set to Defend.

    Melta Bomb: When a Melta Bomb targets a Vehicle in the Fight phase, roll to hit, and deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Grav Pulse: When a model has a Repulsor Field, do one of the following; Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn. Or, when Charged, your opponent has -2 to Charge your unit.

    Hellfire Shells: When an Infantry model shoots a Heavy Bolter, make one to hit roll, and deal D3 Mortal Wounds. Against Monsters, deal 3 Mortal Wounds.
    Monsters bad, Vehicles good. Classic GW.

    Flakk Missile: When an Infantry model with a Missile Launcher targets an Aircraft, make an attack with +1 to hit (i.e; Cancelling out most Aircraft's -1 to hit). Deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Smokescreen: When a Smokescreeen unit is targeted, your opponent has -1 to hit.


    Spoiler: Warlord Traits
    Show
    Space Marines
    1. Enemy units within 6" have -1 to Leadership, and have -1 to Combat Attrition.
    2. Warlord re-rolls Charges, and when it Charges, gain +1S and +1A.
    3. +1W and Ignore Wounds (6+)
    4. When your Warlord is Engaged with a Character, +1A...Whether you attack the Character or not. However, against Characters, your Warlord also has +1 to hit and wound.
    5. Core Units within 6" improve the AP of their attacks by -1, on a 6 to wound.
    6. Core Units and Characters within 6" have Objective Secured.

    Phobos Warlord Traits
    1. A Phobos unit within 6" that has attacked in the Shooting phase, can Move or Advance. It cannot Charge.
    2. Redeploy up to 3 Phobos units. Including putting them into Reserves. This doesn't cost CPs.
    3. All Phobos units within 6" have +1 to Move, Advance, Fall Back and Charge.
    4. Your Warlord can't be targeted at all by ranged attacks, unless it's the closest model to the attacker.
    5. A Phobos unit within 6" gains +1 to hit on their ranged attacks.
    6. Your Warlord's ranged weapons have +1 Damage - does not include Grenades or Relics.

    Dark Angels: Pick a unit within 6", and instead of whatever Combat Doctrine your army is currently on, the unit has the previous Doctrine until your next turn. This is pretty good.

    White Scars: When your Warlord completes a Charge, roll a 2+, and deal a Mortal Wound. No.

    Space Wolves: +1 Attack and to hit and wound vs. Monsters and Vehicles in the Fight phase. Lame.

    Imperial Fists: If a Core Unit within 6" already has the benefit of (Light? Dense?) Cover, they ignore the AP of AP-1 attacks. So basically you get to ignore Ignore Cover. Not great.

    Crimson Fists: When your Warlord dies, roll a 4+, and stand back up with D3 Wounds. Can not be used with Only in Death Does Duty End, nor trigger an Astartes Banner. But you can use those things the 'second' time your Warlord is destroyed.

    Black Templars: Heroic Intervene 6". Hard pass.

    Blood Angels: Always Strike First. Situational. But not useless.

    Flesh Tearers: Gain +D3 attacks if there are 5+ enemy models within 3".

    Iron Hands: Your Warlord can repair 1 Wound to a Vehicle per turn. If your Warlord is a Techmarine, Blessing of the Omnissiah heals D3+1. ****. If your Warlord is a Techmarine, you should be using a Master of the Forge, and you don't even need to be Iron Hands to do that. This Warlord Trait is dumb.

    Ultramarines: Whenever you spend a CP, roll a 5+, and refund it. Remembering that you can only refund one CP per Round, so this isn't that good.

    Salamanders: Your Warlord has +2 Strength. Strap your Relic Blades on.

    Raven Guard: Once per game, your Warlord is put into Reinforcements, and reappears in your next turn, following the rules for Reinforcements for that turn.

    Deathwatch: Select a Core Unit within 6", that unit gains rr1 to wound vs. another Battlefield Role.


    Spoiler: Relics
    Show
    Placeholder 'til Mathhammer


    Spoiler: Powers
    Show
    Librariaus Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". Target unit re-rolls Advance and Charge rolls, and gains Always Strikes First.
    2. WC6, 12". Target Core Unit or Character gains +1S, T and A.
    3. WC7, Self, 6". All units - friendly and enemy - within range lose their Invulnerable saves, and enemy Psykers within range halve their Psychic tests.
    4. WC6, 18". Roll off vs. target unit's Leadership. Deal Mortal Wounds. Decent targeted attack against enemy Characters.
    5. WC6, 18". Draw a line between any part of the Psyker's base, and any part of the model's base (OR HULL). Every enemy unit under the line takes a Mortal Wound. It's interesting that you can manage to not hit your own units with the 'line'.
    6. WC6, 6". Friendly units within range have a 5+ Invulnerable. Very good.

    Obscuration Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". Target unit can't be targeted with ranged attacks, unless it's the closest unit to the attacker. Very good.
    2. WC6, 18". Target unit gains rr1 to hit with shooting attacks, and ignores cover.
    3. WC6, 18". Deal a Mortal Wound to an enemy model. If the model is a Character, roll 3d6 vs. their Leadership, gain a CP.
    4. WC6, 18". Target unit has -1 Leadership, and has -1 to hit.
    5. WC7, 18". Target unit that can't Fly, takes a Mortal Wound, and halves their Move value, and takes -2 to Advance and Charge.
    6. WC5, 6". Target Phobos unit can't Shoot or Fight this turn...Umm...But can make a normal Move, or auto-Advance +6". Situational.

    Litanies of Battle
    0. 6". Core units and Characters can re-roll to hit in the Fight phase.
    1. 6". Core units and Characters gain Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+).
    2. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to wound on Shooting attacks vs. the closest eligible target.
    3. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to wound in the Fight phase.
    4. Self. The Priest gains +1S and A, and Melee weapons (including Relics) gain +1 Damage.
    5. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to hit in the Shooting phase.
    6. 6". Core units and Characters gain +2 to Charge which doesn't stack with any other bonuses to Charge. Additionally, units can Pile-In and Consolidate 6". Which is real good, if that's what you're going for.


    Spoiler: Secondary Objectives
    Show
    If your army contains only Adeptus Astartes models, Agents of the Imperium, and Unaligned models, and your Warlord is an Astartes, you may choose one of the following, in place of any other Secondary Objective.

    Codex Warfare (Purge):
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Heavy or Grenade weapon, whilst Devastator Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Rapid Fire or Assault weapon, whilst Tactical Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Pistol or Melee weapon, whilst Assault Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    This Secondary is...Not great. Since it encourages you to not destroy your opponent's models as fast as you can on Turn 1 with all your Heavy weapons because you can only destroy 5 units before you run out of points. Second, it slows down everything else, too, because now you're disincentivised to take out units with small arms fire on Turn 1. Just, no. Furthermore, this Secondary is problematic for Chapters who want to be in Melee on Turn 1 (e.g; White Scars) or Turn 2 (e.g; Black Templars), because you're doing all your Melee damage before Assault Doctrine is even up. Another problem with this Objective is that it competes with other Purge Objectives, which are a lot easier, and allow your Assassins that you run (Agents of the Imperium) to actually do their job and take out your opponent's Characters.
    (inb4; "This Objective is good because it provides disincentives to dunking on Turn 1." Incorrect. People just wont take this Objective in the first place.)

    Shock Tactics (Battlefield Supremacy): At the end of the round, gain 3 VPs if you took an Objective from your opponent. This is doable. But also it's harder to do if you go first, because the Objective is scored at the end of the round, rather than Turn, which the other Supremacy Objectives, do. If you're taking Objectives from your opponent, you may as well be scoring Linebreaker, instead, because Linebreaker scores at the end of your turn, and your opponent can't stop you. But doesn't Shock Tactics stack with going for Primary Objectives, too? Primary Objectives are equally as problematic, because your opponent can stop you, and now they're getting a two-fer, and they're more incentivised to shoot your units off of Objectives. Finally, if you're stealing Objectives off of your opponents, you really should be using the Domination Objective, instead.
    The only way this Secondary is viable, is if you go Second. However, choosing your Secondaries happens long before you determine who goes first, Hell, you haven't even picked your DZ sides yet.

    Oaths of Moment (No Mercy, No Respite):
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if an Astartes unit destroyed a Character, Vehicle or Monster. Once again, this encourages slower destruction, because you have to 'save' your opponents models for later turns. Additionally, your Assassins that you may or may not have brought to the table, can't contribute.
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if none of your Astartes units failed a Morale test, or Fell Back. Astartes don't fail Morale tests, they just die. So that's easy. However, the second part is a bit harder to reconcile, especially for Chapters that love Falling Back (e.g; White Scars, Raven Guard), and removes very good tactical options from your arsenal (e.g; Land Speeder Hit & Runs).
    - Gain 2 VPs at the end of a Round if one of your Astartes units is wholly within 6" of the middle of the battlefield. Should be doable. Especially if you've accidentally gone second.

    This is arguably the 'best' Astartes Objective, and you can only choose one, so choose this one. Just as importantly, this is a No Mercy, No Respite Objective, which has very little competition. Alternatively, pick an [Action] Objective to do and burn 2CPs every turn to still shoot with the extremely strong Stratagem since it actively contributes to winning the game.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quick thoughts on the state of firstborn marines

    Spoiler
    Show
    HQs: +1 A, +1 W, and a wargear upgrade is probably worth more than 5 points. Firstborn do still have more consistent access to a wider array of wargear, including jump packs. Overall, I think firstborn HQs may still have a place, but as a wider array of model choices for Primaris HQs appears, they're kind of slipping

    Troops: Comparing 18 point Tactical Marines to 20 point intercessors is... a bad joke. Sure, special weapons exist, but Astartes grenade launchers are now just an additional weapon, so the gap is much narrower. Assault Intercessors also far outshine footslogging Assault Squads and Blood Claws (And actually have obsec, unlike Assault squads).

    Elites: Sternguard, Company Veterans, and Vanguard are actually superior to primaris marines in base statline, and can actually do things their newer bretheren can't (Spam special weapons/combi-weapons, or have jump packs and tons of power swords/axes). Terminators have reclaimed their position as the heaviest of Marine's heavy infantry.

    Fast Attack: Assault Squads are completely overshadowed by Assault Intercessors and Vanguard, but for 120 points, a squad of 3 firstborn bikers can have 2 plasmaguns/grav-guns and a combi-weapon that they can fire at the same time as their twin boltguns. That's fifteen points cheaper than a squad of outriders. Such a unit won't make 31 S4 Ap -1 attacks the turn it charges (I think GW forgot shock assault existed when they made these guys), but it does make for an interesting CORE mobile fire platform.

    Heavy Support: Devastators should leave plasma and melta duty to their little brothers (and probably heavy bolters too, considering heavy intercessors will be out in two or three weeks), but they still have their grav cannons. The ability to hide a missile launcher in there for AA duty is also handy.


    Conclusion: For non-characters, it mostly comes down to, "Has GW created a primaris replacement for the firstborn unit?" Veterans don't really have a counterpart yet (Veteran Intercessors are a joke), and Cawl hasn't gotten around to creating a dedicated primaris heavy unit for each heavy weapon, so Devastators still have a place for now. The only other standout are bike squads, which can be used as a budget special weapons team now (Were they always able to take 2 special weapons in a minimum strength squad?)
    Last edited by Squark; 2020-10-17 at 02:31 PM.
    Steam ID: The Great Squark
    3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000

    Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Blackhawk748's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Tharggy, on Tellene
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Conclusion: For non-characters, it mostly comes down to, "Has GW created a primaris replacement for the firstborn unit?" Veterans don't really have a counterpart yet (Veteran Intercessors are a joke), and Cawl hasn't gotten around to creating a dedicated primaris heavy unit for each heavy weapon, so Devastators still have a place for now. The only other standout are bike squads, which can be used as a budget special weapons team now (Were they always able to take 2 special weapons in a minimum strength squad?)
    I would actually say Terminators have done more than just keep their niche, I'd say that extra wound has actually catapulted them from a "Niche but workable unit" into "Something everyone should at least consider using"

    I mean, they are pretty tough to shift and since durability is (currently) a huge part of the game, that means that they are pretty good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    "Mr. Aochev, tear down this wall!" Ro'n Ad-Ri'Gan, Bard
    Tiefling Sorcerer by Linkele
    Spoiler: Homebrew stuff
    Show
    My Spell, My Weapon, Im a God

    My Post Apocalyptic Alternate Timeline setting: Amerhikan Wasteland


    My Historical Stuff channel

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I would actually say Terminators have done more than just keep their niche, I'd say that extra wound has actually catapulted them from a "Niche but workable unit" into "Something everyone should at least consider using"

    I mean, they are pretty tough to shift and since durability is (currently) a huge part of the game, that means that they are pretty good.
    Reclaimed their niche (when they previously had more competition from Gravis Units for the position of Heaviest infantry) might be a better way to put it.
    Steam ID: The Great Squark
    3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000

    Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Blackhawk748's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Tharggy, on Tellene
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Reclaimed their niche (when they previously had more competition from Gravis Units for the position of Heaviest infantry) might be a better way to put it.
    That's probably fair. It also helps that their niche is more important than before
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    "Mr. Aochev, tear down this wall!" Ro'n Ad-Ri'Gan, Bard
    Tiefling Sorcerer by Linkele
    Spoiler: Homebrew stuff
    Show
    My Spell, My Weapon, Im a God

    My Post Apocalyptic Alternate Timeline setting: Amerhikan Wasteland


    My Historical Stuff channel

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Overall, I think firstborn HQs may still have a place...
    Captain on Bike, Captain/Chaplain with Jump Pack.
    Lieutenants and Techmarines 'cause they're cheap.
    That's it.
    Everything else should be Primaris.

    That being said, Captains no longer give themselves rr1s to hit, meaning that Power Fists and Thunder Hammers are much less viable in the first place.

    Troops
    Firstborn Troops are ****.

    Elites: Sternguard, Company Veterans, and Vanguard are actually superior to primaris marines in base statline
    Leadership doesn't mean anything.
    Sternguard lost the +1 to wound Stratagem, making them worse than Intercessors.
    Vanguard...Maybe. It matters a lot what Chapter you're playing. If your Chapter doesn't explicitly give a bonus to Melee units, Bladeguard are better.

    and can actually do things their newer bretheren can't (Spam special weapons/combi-weapons
    Primaris Marines have entire units of Special weapons, try again.

    or have jump packs and tons of power swords/axes).
    Bladeguard are one of the strongest units in the Codex. They just don't have Jump Packs. Except that doesn't matter if you play Raven Guard or White Scars. And if you're not going to be in Melee on Turn 1 anyway, you may as well put them in Reserves for the same effect.

    Terminators have reclaimed their position as the heaviest of Marine's heavy infantry.
    Heavy Intercessors disagree.
    Also, the soft-nerfing of Centurions to not be a Core unit whilst almost everything else, is. Is a good joke.

    Fast Attack
    Everything except Land Speeders have basically been overshadowed.

    Heavy Support: Devastators [with] grav cannons. The ability to hide a missile launcher in there for AA duty is also handy.
    The only other standout are bike squads...
    I disagree.
    The only standouts are units that can take Melta Bombs, and Devastators.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-10-17 at 09:34 PM.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Spoiler: Special Rules
    Show
    Chapter Keyword: You can't have models from different Chapters, in the same Detachment. Fair enough.

    Non-Codex Compliant Chapters:
    • Black Templars can't have Librarians. But they can have Culexus Assassins. Destroy your opponent's Psykers for loads of easy VPs.
    • Dark Angels can't take Sternguard or Vanguard. Fair enough. You don't lose anything.
    • Deathwatch can't take Tactical Squads, Sternguard or Scouts, Assault Squads, Bikes or Attack Bikes, nor Devastators. They can still take whatever Primaris units they want. Yep. Before you freak out about how broken Deathwatch is, please wait until the Deathwatch Supplement comes out. Special Ammo wont work on every Primaris unit. It can't. GW is smarter than that...Right?
    • Space Wolves can't take Tactical Squads, Sternguard or Vanguard, Apothecaries nor Assault Squads.

    And They Shall Know No Fear: Astartes ignore all modifiers to Combat Attrition tests. Positive or negative. If Astartes could take Morale tests, they can fail those. They just shouldn't be failing the ensuing Combat Attrition.

    Bolter Discipline: In addition to the normal rules for Rapid Fire, Astartes gain the benefits of Rapid Fire on Bolt-weapons if they were stationary in their Movement phase. Additionally, Terminators and Bikers always gain the benefits of Rapid Fire on their Bolt-weapons.

    Shock Assault: If an Astartes unit Charges or is Charged, every model in the unit gains +1 Attack for that turn. Sure. Why not? You're Astartes.

    Combat Doctrines: If every unit in your entire Army, is an Astartes, Agent of the Imerium or Unaligned, your Astartes units get Combat Doctrines.
    • Devastator Doctrine; On Turn 1, all of your Astartes Heavy and Grenade weapons have an additional -1 AP.
    • Tactical Doctrine; On Turn 2, all of your Astartes Rapid Fire and Assault weapons have an additional -1 AP. On Turn 3, you may choose to keep this.
    • Assault Doctrine; On Turn 3, if you don't choose to stay in Tactical Doctrine, all your Pistol and Melee weapons have an additional -1 AP.
    • On Turn 4, you fall into Assault Doctrine for the rest of the game.

    All of your best weapons in the Space Marine Codex, are Heavy weapons. The vast majority of your filler units, will have Rapid Fire or Assault weapons. The vast majority of Space Marines' damage is dealt in the first two turns. Because, even on Turn 2+, your Heavy weapons are still Heavy weapons, and still very good, so it's not like you lose anything at all by not stacking units of every kind, because why don't you just win by Turn 2? Secondly, the earlier you can get into Melee, the better it is. This is true even for Astartes. 'Turn 3 is too late', is very real. That said, after the first two turns and you and your opponent are finished playing rocket tag, you can get stuck into your opponent's units and fighting over Objectives. This is especially important for units like Reivers which can turn off your opponent's Objective Secured.

    Deployment Abilities:
    • Combat Squads: Whenever you take a max-sized unit, you can- Yeah. You're never going to do this. You're way better off with two separate units, and, if your strategy does revolve around a big unit, and maximising Stratagem-use, you're still not using Combat Squads.
    • Death From Above: In the Reinforcements phase, set up anywhere 9" away from enemy models. This is generally found on Jump Pack units.
    • Concealed Positions: During deployment, set up anywhere 9" away from your enemy's Deployment Zone, and enemy models. If both players have units with Concealed Positions, the player who is deploying first gains a significant advantage.
    • Outflank: During Reinforcements phase, set up anywhere 9" away from enemy models, and wholly within 6" of a board edge. This is stronger than the rulebook version, since you can show up in your opponent's DZ and/or table edge.
    • Teleport Strike: Same as Death From Above, but needs rules bloat for two rules that do the same thing. Generally found on Terminator units.


    Spoiler: Core Units
    Show
    It's quicker to list what isn't a Core Unit:
    • All Characters.
    • Centurions, both kinds.
    • All non-Dreadnought Vehicles, including Invictor Tactical Warsuits, and Artillery.

    Centurions are the only non-Core unit in the Codex? That's...Specific.


    Spoiler: HQ
    Show
    You may only include one Captain model, and two Lieutenant models in a single Detachment. Captains that are upgraded to Chapter Masters, are exempt from this rule.

    Captains - Core units within 6" can re-roll 1s to hit. 4+ Invulnerable.

    Primaris Captain: Being on foot sucks. How terrible is it that a Relic Pistol is your best ranged weapon? All of your best attacks come from Melee weapons, except you can't even get into Melee because you're on foot. Ignore. Really, the only reason to take one is if you know your opponents really like targeting Characters with Sniper-fire and Psychic Powers, so you desperately need Ignore Mortal Wounds (4+) off of the Relic Shield. And if you're going to do that, you may as well take the Chapter Master upgrade and take the additional Armour Relic so you really don't die.
    • Dark Angels can pick up a Special Issue Bolt Carbine, which allows them to take Primarch's Wrath, which means that it's not totally useless anymore.

    Captain with Master-Crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle: T5, 7 Wounds, carries a !Heavy Bolter. There's your solid ranged-Captain option. Being a ranged Character means having the potential to be targeted. The extra Toughness and Wound, absolutely matters.

    Captain in Phobos Armour: Concealed Positions. Can target Characters with a 30", S4, AP-2, 3D weapon. Good. But you're better off with an actual Assassin. Or both. Unfortunately, a single S4 attack isn't very strong when it comes to popping Characters. The Phobos Captain's real strength lies in his Omni-Scrambler, which means Reinforcements can't set up within 12" of him. This is really strong when it prevents your opponent's 9" bonus Charges out of Reinforcements. However, being forced to set up outside of 12", means you cancel out the ability to Auspex Scan. Then again, if your opponent is outside 12", they can't Charge at all, so who cares what they do?

    Captain in Gravis Armour: At 115 Points he's carrying two Melee weapons when he'll only ever use one. Just take the Captain with MCHBR, who also comes with a Master-Crafted Power Sword.
    Why weren't the two Gravis Captains rolled into the same Datasheet? Because rules bloat.

    Captain in Terminator Armour: What's better? T5 Gravis, or 2+ Sv. Terminator? 2+ Save, for sure. Now, is it worth losing a Wound and Attack, to gain Teleport Strike? ...Yes. Because your Captain can actually make it into Melee now. Your opponent can target Characters? Who cares!? You're not even on the board to be targeted until you're already 9" away from your opponent's models. Since you're a Terminator, you have access to Chainfists which are quite good. If you really want to blow your Relic slot, pick up The Burning Blade. But, that being said, any model could potentially take Burning Blade (like a Lieutenant), whilst your Captain takes the Chainfist and you get two good weapons.

    Captain: If you're on foot, grab a Storm Bolter. If you want to blow your Relic; Primarch's Wrath. If you want to pick up a Jump Pack, and Death from Above your way into Melee, then; Power Fist, Teeth of Terra, Burning Blade. In that order. If you're going to take a Storm Shield, too, then the Power Fist costing 10 Points becomes a bit much because GW has way over-costed Jump Packs. But still very good. Also noting that if you don't care about the Storm Shield, running an Astartes Chainsword and Teeth of Terra can get you a lot of attacks. For some reason, Primaris models forgot that they could take Chainswords, and left a really powerful Relic just lying around.
    • Deathwatch Captains can take a Xenophase Blade, which is real nice for taking out Harlequins.

    (Thunder Hammer has 3D, Power Fist has AP-3. AP is better than Damage.)

    Captain on Bike: Like a Captain with Jump Pack, but you have an extra Wound, an extra Attack, and a 'free' Storm Bolter which causes additional Combi-Weapons to cost more because your model would have a ****-ton of ranged attacks. But that doesn't matter, because you're a Captain on a Bike, and your role is to be Melee, except GW goof'd pretty hard and didn't make it expensive, even though they did, with the Jump Pack. Everything about the previous Captain remains the same. But a Bike-Captain is cheaper because they can't climb stairs...Not that they really need to because nobody climbs stairs anymore 'cause you can't put Objectives in the top levels of Ruins anymore.

    Lieutenants - Core units within 6" can re-roll 1s to wound.
    When it comes to ranged HQs, Captains and Lieutenants have the same BS, and the attack's profile is made off of the weapon, not the model. So if you're going for a gunline, running a Lieutenant is better than running a Captain (because it's cheaper). What's better, re-roll to hit, or to wound? Well, how much Plasma do you have? 'Cause in every other case, re-rolling to wound, is better. So, in actual fact, the only reason to ever run a Captain is if they're in Terminator Armour, on a Bike, or wearing a Jump Pack...Hooray for Firstborn?

    Primaris Lieutenant: Same deal as the Captain on foot. But now you have less Attacks.
    • Dark Angel Lieutenants can take a Plasma Pistol. Special Pistols are only good on models that don't need to pay for them. You should be focussing on firing your Auto- or Stalker Bolt Rifle.
    • Space Wolf Lieutenants can take a Special Issue Bolt Carbine and Master-Crafted Power Axe. This makes them eligible for Primarch's Wrath, the best ranged weapon. Wait...In a Space Wolves' list...Yeah, okay, GW. Nailed it.

    Lieutenant in Reiver Armour: Take regular Reivers, that do the same job, but don't take a valuable Lieutenant slot.

    Lieutenant: With less actual attacks than a Captain, Teeth of Terra becomes a lot better, as do Lightning Claws. A pair of Lightning Claws will net you 5 Attacks that re-roll to wound, with AP-2. The 1D is a problem. But also you still have access to ToT, which is really strong, and free. The same issue as with all Melee models is how do you get there...Well, Jump Pack. Unlike a Captain, you can't take a Bike. The problem with ranged Lieutenants - and ranged Characters in general - is that unlike Melee models which can hide behind Obscuring terrain and not lose anything, being a ranged Characters mean you need LoS, and that means your opponent more than likely has LoS to you. If you have a ranged Lieutenant, the extra Wound that being Primaris gives is actually important.

    Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Nope.

    Librarians - Manifests Psyshic Powers. +1 to Deny if your Librarian is within 12" of the opposing Psyker.

    Primaris Librarian: Pay a lot of points to do exactly what other Librarians do.

    Librarian: Does exactly what the Primaris Librarian does, for less points (and with one less wound). The Jump Pack is neccessary if you want to play a Melee army and manifest Might of Heroes on your Captain/Lieutenants. The Librarius Discipline is based around making combos with other, which isn't great once your opponent sees what you're doing and decides to shut you down one way or the other. Otherwise...

    Librarian in Phobos Armour: Concealed Positions is extremely strong on a Character that wields a Force weapon. Throw in the extremely powerful Obscuration Discipline and you have a really powerful model that's in Melee, starting from Turn 1. Cheaper than a Librarian with a Jump Pack, and has an extra Wound and Attack, and while a Phobos Librarian can combo with another unit (preferably one with Concealed Positions), it's not necessary for the Librarian's job. Especially when you know that your Psychic Hood is in range almost immediately.

    Libararian in Terminator Armour: Teleport Strike is slower that Concealed Positions. The end.

    Chaplains - Core units within 6" use a Chaplain's Leadership, not their own (What's the narrative reason for why Centurions don't listen to Chaplains, GW?). 4+ Invulnerable.

    Primaris Chaplain: Nah.

    Primaris Chaplain on Bike: There it is. Same as a Captain on Bike, but with an extra Wound, and Twin Bolt Rifles is better than a Twin Boltgun. In addition, Chaplains have access to the extremly powerful Benediction of Fury, which is the best Relic in the Codex, and, don't forget about Mantra of Strength and/or Litany of Hate, where on a 3+, your Chaplain just because really good until your next turn. Remember that a Master of Sanctity can Recite twice for 25 Points, or, just do Commanding Oratory for CPs. Or do all of those things, to Recite three times, adding Canticle of Hate for +2 to Charge rolls. Very strong model. Amazing. Good job. 11/10.

    Chaplain in Terminator Armour: Everything that applies to the Primaris Chaplain on Bike, more or less applies to a Terminator, too. Except now you're Teleport Strikeing, instead of moving 14-20" on Turn 1.

    Chaplain: Good for gunlines. Recitation of Focus and +1 to hit, and Lieutenants giving re-roll 1s to wound, which means you can more or less cut Captains out of your gunline entirely, unless they're Chapter Masters, which is a different thing. Or, give the Chaplain a Jump Pack, and do the same thing as a Primaris Chaplain on Bike, with Toughness, less Wounds and less Attacks.

    Techmarines - Heal Vehicles for D3 Wounds per turn, give one Vehicle, +1 to hit per turn. (Vehicles don't even need to be Core. But seriously, why aren't Centurions?)

    Primaris Techmarine: Not good ranged attacks. Not good Melee attacks. But it's a Techmarine, which means it's exactly as good as the Vehicles around it.

    Techmarine: Cheaper than the above and does the exact same job. But now with access to a Boltgun, can use Primarch's Wrath with BS2.
    • Space Wolves Techmarines may replace their wargear with stupidly expensive wargear. Don't do it.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-10-21 at 04:18 AM.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  22. - Top - End - #52
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    So, I was feeling slightly annoyed that Battlescribe hadn't updated their datafiles to include the new codexes (I mean, it's not a huge deal since this is just fans working on their own time. But still, I wish it was done already), and I realized that GW missed a major opportunity to get people to use their App, since this was probably the second biggest launch window for the army builder they could have had. But nope, it's still nowhere to be found, so battlescribe will inevitably continue to get usage.

    I am getting really tired of game companies promising official apps for their games, then not even delivering the bare minimum of functionality that fan-built apps have.
    Last edited by Squark; 2020-10-20 at 10:49 AM.
    Steam ID: The Great Squark
    3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000

    Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    So, I was feeling slightly annoyed that Battlescribe hadn't updated their datafiles to include the new codexes (I mean, it's not a huge deal since this is just fans working on their own time. But still, I wish it was done already), and I realized that GW missed a major opportunity to get people to use their App, since this was probably the second biggest launch window for the army builder they could have had. But nope, it's still nowhere to be found, so battlescribe will inevitably continue to get usage.

    I am getting really tired of game companies promising official apps for their games, then not even delivering the bare minimum of functionality that fan-built apps have.
    So those codes in the codex for that apps don't even work?
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  24. - Top - End - #54
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    So those codes in the codex for that apps don't even work?
    They work, but the army builder still isn't live. So its just a somewhat clunky reference program for now.
    Steam ID: The Great Squark
    3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000

    Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    I am happy that Heavy Intercessors cost 28 Points and don't break the entire Codex, and don't replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons.
    That being said, something probably should replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons, that, or give Grav-Cannons a hard nerf.
    No idea what the solution is.
    Maybe GW should just pull the trigger and get rid of Firstborn units that don't have the Veteran tag?
    Because non-Veteran Firstborn no longer make sense in the current fluff.

    Posted from phone.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LansXero's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I am happy that Heavy Intercessors cost 28 Points and don't break the entire Codex, and don't replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons.
    That being said, something probably should replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons, that, or give Grav-Cannons a hard nerf.
    No idea what the solution is.
    Maybe GW should just pull the trigger and get rid of Firstborn units that don't have the Veteran tag?
    Because non-Veteran Firstborn no longer make sense in the current fluff.

    Posted from phone.
    Can they use the new double tap strat? That'd be quite something.

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Can they use the new double tap strat? That'd be quite something.
    The Stratagem can only affect Intercessor Squads and Veteran Intercessors.
    Not Heavy Intercessors.
    So all good.

    Posted from phone.
    Steam Name: Cheesegear
    League of Legends Name: Cheesegear
    You can fight like a krogan or run like a leopard but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I am happy that Heavy Intercessors cost 28 Points and don't break the entire Codex, and don't replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons.
    That being said, something probably should replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons, that, or give Grav-Cannons a hard nerf.
    No idea what the solution is.
    Maybe GW should just pull the trigger and get rid of Firstborn units that don't have the Veteran tag?
    Because non-Veteran Firstborn no longer make sense in the current fluff.

    Posted from phone.
    I'm opposed to that on behalf of all those Space Marine players who stubbornly refuse to buy Primaris Marines. Or at least, have a bunch of Firstborn units that they just like and refuse to switch off of. And of course, there is the ever present group of people who just don't have the money to update the reason.

    Though actually, I kinda do like the idea, because than I imagine most Firstborn units would just be considered 'count as' their Primaris equivalent.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  29. - Top - End - #59
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Destro_Yersul's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    sector ZZ9 plural-z alpha
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Which is probably the big reason they don't. Why give people an excuse to just proxy everything?
    I do LP's sometimes! I'm currently on hiatus for college purposes.

    My Youtube Channel

    The rest of my Sig:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Avatar by Vael

    My Games:
    The Great Divide Dark Heresy - Finished
    They All Uprose Dark Heresy - Finished
    Dead in the Water Dark Heresy - Finished
    House of Glass Dark Heresy - Deceased

    We All Fall Down Dark Heresy - Ongoing

    Sea of Stars Rogue Trader - Ongoing

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    GW has also paid nods to the idea of legacy eras; The chapter command rules are cited as being usable to represent previous chapter masters/head librarians/masters of sanctity/masters of the forge if your chosen chapter has a named character who fills that role. Such characters are necessarily firstborn (although the rules don't quite reflect that).

    At the end of the day, though, I suspect GW will support fjrstborn loyalists as long as they feel its profitable to do so, and not a minute longer.
    Last edited by Squark; 2020-10-20 at 09:28 PM.
    Steam ID: The Great Squark
    3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000

    Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •