Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

[Cheesegear]

Since Guilliman is a Primarch, he can go in a supreme command detachment instead of a super-heavy detachment, which costs 0 CP and refunds the CP from one patrol/batallion/brigade detachment, actually.

Good looking out.
I've been gimping myself for no reason.

[Aliess]

My favourite implementation of that style was in the old demon hunters codex.
Your army was really good at killing demons, but your opponent for the option of buying extra demonic wargear, summoning in demons and so on whatever their original army was.
It meant your grey knights got to shine more often, without feeling like your opponent was screwed if they played the wrong army.

[Adrastos42]

It definitely feels like it could be difficult to strike a balance with bonuses that feel fluffy for your army's specialised opponent, are still useful if you're fighting something else entirely, and aren't completely overpowered if you're actually, for example, using your grey knights against daemons.

I guess I'd try as much as possible to target common traits of those armies that also appear elsewhere. Like, daemons have lots of invulnerable saves and can get summoned right? So Grey Knights get to weaken invulnerable saves and have defenses against SUA. Perhaps Deathwatch's anti-tyranids stratagem gives bonuses when shooting units with more than 10 or 15 models, and their anti-necron one applies a -1 to any roll to heal or resurrect a unit they've targeted.


I did like the idea of the rules to give your opponent daemonic bonuses back in the Daemon Hunters codex, though I never got to actually use them and I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up being awkward or unbalanced in practice.

[Cheesegear]

It definitely feels like it could be difficult to strike a balance with bonuses that feel fluffy for your army's specialised opponent...

So Ultramarines hate Word Bearers because of that one time.
What about more recently, with T'au and the Damocles Debacle?
Guess nobody cares about the two times at Damnos, and Sicarius got hemisected. Surely the Ultramarines learned something about Necrons, then.
I guess the Ultramarines didn't care about the Cadian Gate.
That Tyrannic War that wiped out most of the Chapter? Ultramarines didn't learn anything.
What about the Plague Wars? Not important I guess.

Specific or favoured opponents don't really make sense when you're at war with everyone. Because one day, some other Faction will come along and do something pretty bad, equal to if not worse than the other thing. Given that Ultramarines are the main Chapter for GW's writing, a lot of stuff has happened to them in ten thousand years. Up to and including Macragge itself, being attacked. Hell, during The Gathering Storm, the Word Bearers didn't even attack Ultramar with Abaddon. Some nemeses they are! Which lead into the Plague Wars...Again, no Word Bearers.

Now there's the Pariah Stars and Necron nonsense...But Ultramarines have fought Necrons before, in two major engagements. Sergeant Chronus received major battle honours. Sicarius almost died. Oh I forgot. Ultramarines only remember that one time from the Heresy.

Turns out in Space Marines/9, there's "Battle for Damnos III: We Don't Have Time For This."

See; Deathwatch RPG. The Deathwatch don't just go home when Traitor Legions show up because Traitors != Xenos, so it's not their problem. That's not how anything works.
In 40K?
An Ork Boyz Mob charges. Deploy Tanglefoot Grenades!
A pack of Cultists-on-meth charges. Nope. Can't use Tanglefoot Grenades here. It's different. For reasons. Also we're going home because we only destroy Orks. Not Cultists-on-meth.

But why do you need to get bonuses vs. specific Factions in Matched Play at all?
Why is that even a thing, outside of a Narrative game?

Your opponent plays Faction A.
You play Faction B.

Before the game has even started, before you've even read your opponent's army list. Your opponent, because they're playing Faction A (regardless of what's in their actual army list), has an advantage over you, because you're playing Faction B (regardless of what's in your army list)*. Your opponent has an advantage over you, specifically. Not the other people playing Factions C, D, E or F. Just you, specifically. If you weren't playing Faction B, they wouldn't have an advantage. If they weren't playing Faction A, they wouldn't have an advantage. But the stars aligned so it sucks to be you.

But in every, other game, your opponent, looks at that rule, that does nothing because they're playing against Faction C, now, and wonders, in their heart, what else could be written there, instead, that could be more useful.

*Bear in mind that GW either didn't have the foresight, or simply just forgot, or just plan chose not to** give Faction B a similar, opposing advantage, against Faction A.
**Or the Codecies are written by different Teams who have no idea what another Team is doing.

Deathwatch also happens to be a particularly egregious example because their 'advantage' is directly tied to a win condition. Which is gross.

[Artanis]

I seem to recall seeing in WHFB where a ton of Dark Elf units had "hates High Elves" and vice versa.

...though I didn't actually play WHFB, so I don't even know what that rule does, so...yeah.

[Forum Explorer]

I seem to recall seeing in WHFB where a ton of Dark Elf units had "hates High Elves" and vice versa.

...though I didn't actually play WHFB, so I don't even know what that rule does, so...yeah.

In Fantasy it actually worked cause it was mutual. At first they did different things, but eventually both factions got the same bonus against each other.

[Voidhawk]

You're looking at it backwards.

Word Bearers specifically hate Ultramarines, and have proudly carried that grudge for 10,000 years (give or take warp-time). So in the Chaos Codex, Word Bearers get a rule to represent this that gives them bonuses against Ultramarines.

But, as previously noted, specific bonuses against one kind of enemy unbalance things. How do you fix that? Answer: give Ultramarines a bonus as well, so that it evens out. No matter that it's not particularly fluffy, it's there just to even things out.

[Drasius]

You're looking at it backwards.

Word Bearers specifically hate Ultramarines, and have proudly carried that grudge for 10,000 years (give or take warp-time). So in the Chaos Codex, Word Bearers get a rule to represent this that gives them bonuses against Ultramarines.

But, as previously noted, specific bonuses against one kind of enemy unbalance things. How do you fix that? Answer: give Ultramarines a bonus as well, so that it evens out. No matter that it's not particularly fluffy, it's there just to even things out.

No, you give the bonus linked to scenarios in Narrative where it belongs and leave it out of Matched play, because matched play is meant to be gameplay and a roughly fair fight before story, while in Narrative it's the other way around.

I still remember an IWs vs DA cripple fight a few editions ago, finally happy to be facing another bottom tier army where things would be a bit more even, only to be informed that DA got a couple of boons like rr1's to hit vs CSM for stuff like Ravenwing. Words can't describe what a severe kick in the junk that was. My opponent was very happy though, "Yes! I almost forgot this was a thing since nobody plays CSM, I finally get to use it!".

It's been going around for a while too, Thousand Sons have kept getting useless garbage bonii on the off chance they were play SW, usually something like rr1's to hit in melee which is beyond dumb, 'cause if they're in melee, it's with stuff like Wulfen or TW's who give zero ****s about that. Having stuff like that as a formation bonus (or stratagem or army perk these days) while other people get Run & Charge or double shooting to army-wide FNP is beyond garbage.

What started as an interesting way to give small, flavourful bonuses to various armies to mean that what sub-faction you chose to play meant a bit more than generic marine chapter [x] has gone waaaaaay too far and needs to be toned down. If you're actively punished for not using [x] chapter because their sub-faction bonus is brokenly strong (looking at you 8th IH!), the design goal has failed pretty miserably. Again, these various flavour bonii should be active in narrative, but not in matched. Do whatever you want in Narrative, it's there to tell a story and balance is a secondary concern.

[Avaris]

No, you give the bonus linked to scenarios in Narrative where it belongs and leave it out of Matched play, because matched play is meant to be gameplay and a roughly fair fight before story, while in Narrative it's the other way around.

This would be the better way to do it. If wanting to lean into a particular narrative conflict, make a scenario for it. Rarely used stratagems are not the place, particularly if they give brand new abilities or effects that fhange how things play drastically (which is why I’d favour something that just allows more of the same)

I wonder if we’ll start seeing more of these sorts of effects in Crusade actually. I could see it gaining a system that gives bonuses against your most common opponents, and of course they can take the same against you.

[Cheesegear]

I still remember an IWs vs DA cripple fight a few editions ago, finally happy to be facing another bottom tier army where things would be a bit more even, only to be informed that DA got a couple of boons like rr1's to hit vs CSM for stuff like Ravenwing. Words can't describe what a severe kick in the junk that was. My opponent was very happy though, "Yes! I almost forgot this was a thing since nobody plays CSM, I finally get to use it!".

Dark Vengeance was a brutal starter for the non-Space Marine (i.e; Chaos) side.

Not only was GW known for making starters that blatantly favour the Space Marine side to begin with, but also "See those Terminators and those Bikers? They have Preferred Enemy against everything you own. So my Plasma wont even Gets Hot!."

When a pair of siblings or friends bought Dark Vegeance (6th Ed., this is), and it came time to pick a 'winner' and a 'loser' when the box was split. The player who ended up with Dark Angels was very definitely the winner of the box-split.

See, at least with the 9e starters, yeah...The Space Marines are better than the Necrons, no contest. Not even close. But at least there isn't a clause in the Space Marines' Codex that says "If your opponent plays Necrons, **** 'em up, lol."

[snowblizz]

In Fantasy it actually worked cause it was mutual. At first they did different things, but eventually both factions got the same bonus against each other.

The irony is ofc even so DE usually kept their bonus whereas HE didn't. Eventually both sides had re-roll hits agasint msot armies, but they canceled against each other except for DE units who came with Hatred. Black Guard (IIRC) had Hatred High Evles and Hatred Everyone leaving them out one ahead in the stack of rules interactions.

But it varies a lot over editions.

I seem to recall seeing in WHFB where a ton of Dark Elf units had "hates High Elves" and vice versa.

...though I didn't actually play WHFB, so I don't even know what that rule does, so...yeah.

Depending on edition really. DE Hated HE, and HE got a less "emotinal" rule to representing stoic determination to fight back. Hatred was mechanically better though.
In effect DE were offensive, and HE defensive inclined.

That Tyrannic War that wiped out most of the Chapter? Ultramarines didn't learn anything.

Well dead people don't learn lessons, that checks out. And the not dead people are the Tyrannic War Veterans (anyone remember them). I guess they are busy not teaching new recruits or something.

[Avaris]

Well dead people don't learn lessons, that checks out. And the not dead people are the Tyrannic War Veterans (anyone remember them). I guess they are busy not teaching new recruits or something.

The real problem here is the combination of GW’s love of ‘almost wiped out’ as a narrative and the stupidity of chapter sizes. I’m currently painting Space Hulk, which has as a major piece of lore almost the entire Blood Angels chapter being wiped out in an attack on the Space Hulk...

[Drasius]

So, since Muhreens are good, and we can have games in store again, and I was getting some Marines Errant painted before I lost interest in 8th, and it appears that most of what I like is good, how do I Marines Errant these days?

What I have, roughly and/or would like to get:

Spoiler: HQ

Show

[HQ]
Have:
Captain, Jump Pack, weapons TBA (currently the Lord Executioner model, will probably convert, could definately be convinced to convert him into a JP Chaplain though and kitbash a JP captain out of a VV box)
Terminator Chaplain (the original, because holy space christ on a jetbike, it's such a nice model and I actually painted it really well)
Limited Terminator Chaplain (the one with the purity seal pasties, NIB, door prize)
Telion (from when Allies was a thing and I needed a HQ)

Want:
Wouldn't mind one of the Primaris Lieutenants, but the ones I like are all event exclusives, so not out of the question, but limited in scope
Looks like you could kitbash a VV into a manlet Lieutenant with a jump pack pretty easily...

Spoiler: Troops

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[Troops]
Have:
10x Tacticals
10x Intercessors (unbuilt)
5x Sniper scouts (they're still listed as troops on GW's website, lol)

Want:
Wouldn't mind a few more Intercessors (of whatever flavour), they look neat.

Spoiler: Elite

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[Elites]
Have:
5x Hammernators (very cool, wouldn't say no to buying more termies)
10x VV's, weapons assorted - most have SS's (will buy as many of these as required, such a cool kit)
5x Sniper Scouts (don't really want to have to paint these unless I have to)

Want:
Aggressors - will be picking up 2 boxes, Other than the gauntlet bolters looking a bit odd, they're cool as
Wouldn't mind a box dread or two. Not keen on Contemptors or Redemptors, REALLY not keen on vickys.
You could probably twist my arm into some sternguard
A banner boy would be a nice test of painting skills

Spoiler: Fast Attack

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[Fast Attack]
Have:
20x Assault Marines, Jump Packs, 4x Flamers, 4x Evicerators

Want:
Would love some Land Speeders
Fairly keen on a few suppressor conversions

Spoiler: Heavy Support

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[Heavy Support]
Have:
10x Devs, 4x Multi-melta, 4x Grav Cannon
3x Cents, NIB (from tourney prize. Would require extensive conversion to use, 'cause they're ugly)

Want:
Whirlwind, dunno why, but these have always been so cool, but so bad. Would really like one.
You could twist my arm into getting a Land Raider, though I have one for my IW and it's a pain 'cause it doesn't fit into any of my cases. Cool model though.
You could probably convince me to get a Predator, but it'd be a tough sell

Spoiler: Flyer

Show

[Flyer]
Have:
1x Stormraven
2x Stormtalons

Want:
Nil

Spoiler: Dedicated Transport

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[Dedicated Transport]
Have:
3x Drop Pods
1x Land Speed Storm, Heavy Flamer

Want:
Nil

Spoiler: Proto-list

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UM Successor
Hungry for Battle
Long-Range Marksmen/Stealthy/Tactical Withdrawl?
Battallion?
HQ
140 - Captain, Jump Pack, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer (this feels like a given, I want some to punch faces in and hand out a rr1 aura. Is it worth the points to upgrade to Chapter master?)
100'ish - Second HQ slot, do I take a Jump Chaplain, Terminator chaplain or Jump Lieutenant? Jump Lieutenant feels like the right answer here, but I want to field the Termie Chaplain.

Troops
100 - 5x Intercessors (Is the 5 points for a 30" krak missile worth it?)
100 - 5x Intercessors (5x Firstborn with Lascannon is 105 and brings some more anti tank)
100 - 5x Intercessors (Why does it feel like anything but stalker bolt rifles is a trap?)

Elites
270 - 6x Aggressors (big old blob of dakka that also has powerfists)
213 - 8x Vanguard Veterans (Relic Blade/Storm Shield Sarge, 2x Double Lightning Claws, 5x Power Weapon/Storm Shield)
215 - 5x Hammernators (this feels sub-optimal compared to the VV, but I guess the fatty damage on the hammers makes up for it a bit)

Fast Attack
?

Heavy Support
135 - 5x Devs, 4x Grav Cannons, Cherub (anti-marines)
175 - 5x Devs, 4x Multi Meltas, Cherub (anti big thing)

Transports
70 - Drop Pod (for the Devs to hide in)

~1628, so ~370 to fill in.
Supressors would add more anti-marine and IIRC, can cancel overwatch on stuff they hit?
Land Speeders would add more anti-chaff (or anti-vehcile if Typhoon), but is more vehicles worth it?
Do I switch to a Vanguard and drop the troops and simply meme on people with a full roster of elites because objectives are for nerds?
Do I add a command squad and throw a bunch of secondary points away an apoth and some more fighty stuff in with the Agressor blob?
Do I take at least 1 big block of bolt rifle intercessors for the shoot twice strat to help clear out chaff?
Do I option the auto-boltgun and pick up the chapter trait to advance and fire with no penalty and completely control the midfield?
Wot do?

[HoldTheLine31]

Suppressors are exclusive to start collecting Vanguard, other option being Ebay scalpers.
Alternatively if you have a good 3D print service nearby, there are some very good "not" suppressors available for printing, had a bunch made and the prints are looking stellar thus far.

[Wraith]

I had a look at eBay Suppressors while planning out my Dark Angels list; honestly they're not as scalpy as one could expect under the circumstances, they're certainly more viable than many things. With a bit of patience, I daresay one could even manage to scrape together a bargain.

Speaking of unwanted units being inconveniently cobbled together for obscene prices, Hell has finally frozen over and GW have announced some new Battleforce boxed sets to be released just before Christmas, in contradiction to... whatever the hell else their sales plans have been for the last few years.

Some of them don't even look like terrible ways to start an army although as always there's some wonkiness - no idea who is going to want just one IG Sentinel, for example, but it's a start.

No word on projected prices yet, but going by the contents of the box they're nearly equivalent to a Combat Patrol box so hopefully won't be too dissimilar.

[HoldTheLine31]

Those look interesting, especially the Necron and Tau one, if only I hadn't t gone ahead and gotten 2 of the Tau start collecting boxes yesterday.
Than again prices aren't out yet and I bet the Necron box will use the inflated warrior price.
Also with the mess that is holiday shipping and Brexit on the horizon getting one shipped if you're in the EU may prove to be problematic.

[AdmiralCheez]

Looks like some pretty good boxes to me. The Tau and Necron ones are pretty tempting if I decide to start one of those armies.

[Adrastos42]

Damn, that's like, exactly what I would buy if I decided to impulse-buy a whole Tau army. Not that I could afford to, but still, they really have to stop tempting me like this><

[LeSwordfish]

I had a look at eBay Suppressors while planning out my Dark Angels list; honestly they're not as scalpy as one could expect under the circumstances, they're certainly more viable than many things. With a bit of patience, I daresay one could even manage to scrape together a bargain.

Speaking of unwanted units being inconveniently cobbled together for obscene prices, Hell has finally frozen over and GW have announced some new Battleforce boxed sets to be released just before Christmas, in contradiction to... whatever the hell else their sales plans have been for the last few years.

Some of them don't even look like terrible ways to start an army although as always there's some wonkiness - no idea who is going to want just one IG Sentinel, for example, but it's a start.

No word on projected prices yet, but going by the contents of the box they're nearly equivalent to a Combat Patrol box so hopefully won't be too dissimilar.

I don't know, I'm willing to bet they'll be a good bit more expensive. The marine one is twenty dudes and two vehicles, for a RRP of £180ish (I also did the maths on the AOS Ogor one, since that's what's tickled my interest, and it comes out at nearly £200!). These have been priced at or around the £100 mark for a few years, so i'm going to bet at more like £120-140 this time. From a third-party retailer that's still a hell of a discount against £200 RRP, but still a fair whack.

---

One thing I've had trouble figuring out in the marine talk is what you can and can't do with each level of successor chapters. I have my Ember Lords who are Iron Hands successors, for instance - can I use different successor tactics and still use the Iron Hands stratagems? the Iron Hands doctrines? Ferrios? Can someone point me to a summary?

[hamishspence]

One thing I've had trouble figuring out in the marine talk is what you can and can't do with each level of successor chapters. I have my Ember Lords who are Iron Hands successors, for instance - can I use different successor tactics and still use the Iron Hands stratagems? the Iron Hands doctrines? Ferrios? Can someone point me to a summary?

As written, all you have to do to gain Stratagems and Special Issue Wargear of a Firstborn chapter, is "be a successor" - you do not need to take Inheritors of the Primarch.

To gain an Iron Hands relic in an Iron Hands successor army, you need to take that stratagem that involves the Iron Hands lending you one of their relics.

However, if you want Ferrios, be aware that he needs to be an actual Iron Hand - you can't change his Chapter.

You can say "I'm playing Iron Hands but with a different paintjob" though.

[JNAProductions]

As written, all you have to do to gain Stratagems and Special Issue Wargear of a Firstborn chapter, is "be a successor" - you do not need to take Inheritors of the Primarch.

To gain an Iron Hands relic in an Iron Hands successor army, you need to take that stratagem that involves the Iron Hands lending you one of their relics.

However, if you want Ferrios, be aware that he needs to be an actual Iron Hand - you can't change his Chapter.

You can say "I'm playing Iron Hands but with a different paintjob" though.

Also, note that if you DO take Inheritors of the Primarch, you have to be a successor of that chapter. So no "Fall back and shoot, +1 to Leadership" unless you're an Ultras successor.

[Drasius]

Suppressors are exclusive to start collecting Vanguard, other option being Ebay scalpers.
Alternatively if you have a good 3D print service nearby, there are some very good "not" suppressors available for printing, had a bunch made and the prints are looking stellar thus far.

I was going to convert stuff pretty heavily anyway, and have some spare autocannon bits laying around from when I was going to build some autoHavoks. I've also got enough to paint that it's not much of a worry about not picking them up for a while, as I assume they'll get their own box release at some point.

I had a look at eBay Suppressors while planning out my Dark Angels list; honestly they're not as scalpy as one could expect under the circumstances, they're certainly more viable than many things. With a bit of patience, I daresay one could even manage to scrape together a bargain.

Speaking of unwanted units being inconveniently cobbled together for obscene prices, Hell has finally frozen over and GW have announced some new Battleforce boxed sets to be released just before Christmas, in contradiction to... whatever the hell else their sales plans have been for the last few years.

Some of them don't even look like terrible ways to start an army although as always there's some wonkiness - no idea who is going to want just one IG Sentinel, for example, but it's a start.

No word on projected prices yet, but going by the contents of the box they're nearly equivalent to a Combat Patrol box so hopefully won't be too dissimilar.

That tau one looks suspiciously similar to the one they released a few Xmas' ago. It was pretty terrible back then, not sure how useful the contents are now.

[Cheesegear]

One thing I've had trouble figuring out in the marine talk is what you can and can't do with each level of successor chapters.

Warlord Traits; You are Iron Hands
Psychic Powers; You are Iron Hands
Stratagems; You are Iron Hands
Relics; You can't choose certain Relics unless you spend a CP.
Iron Father Feirros; No.

[Voidhawk]

Speaking of unwanted units being inconveniently cobbled together for obscene prices, Hell has finally frozen over and GW have announced some new Battleforce boxed sets to be released just before Christmas, in contradiction to... whatever the hell else their sales plans have been for the last few years.

Some of them don't even look like terrible ways to start an army although as always there's some wonkiness - no idea who is going to want just one IG Sentinel, for example, but it's a start.

Neat. Lets have a look at the contents.

Space Marines - 10 Reivers. Nope.
Necrons - Not the worst. Triarch Stalkers and spyders aren't fantastic, but the Doom Scythe and infantry are all fine.
Imperial Guard - Are Hydras any good at the moment?
Chaos - Pretty decent, since the worst thing here are the troops. Havocs, Terminators and a Daemon Engine are nice.
Tau - Piranha? Urgh. Pathfinders aren't great, but the suits are never terrible.
Tyranids - Gargoyles and a Haruspex? Yuck.
Blood Angels - Everything here is great. Waaaay better than the regular marine one.

[Renegade Paladin]

That Hydra would probably be better off as a Wyvern, and happily the kit can build one. They just chose to use the Hydra configuration for the photo.

[Forum Explorer]

Neat. Lets have a look at the contents.

Space Marines - 10 Reivers. Nope.
Necrons - Not the worst. Triarch Stalkers and spyders aren't fantastic, but the Doom Scythe and infantry are all fine.
Imperial Guard - Are Hydras any good at the moment?
Chaos - Pretty decent, since the worst thing here are the troops. Havocs, Terminators and a Daemon Engine are nice.
Tau - Piranha? Urgh. Pathfinders aren't great, but the suits are never terrible.
Tyranids - Gargoyles and a Haruspex? Yuck.
Blood Angels - Everything here is great. Waaaay better than the regular marine one.

The Haruspex can be built as a Tervigon and the Gargoyles as Termagaunts.

[Mystic Muse]

The Haruspex can be built as a Tervigon and the Gargoyles as Termagaunts.

Uh. They can? Since when? The alternate for the Haruspex is the maleceptor, and I've gotten enough chemical burns from gluing gargoyles together that I don't think they can really be used for that.

Not trying to come across as hostile, I am legitimately wondering if I missed a memo.

[hamishspence]

Actually, the Maleceptor's dual-kit alternative is the Toxicrene.


The Tervigon's dual-kit alternative is the Tyrannofex.


It's the Exocrine that is the Haruspex's dual-kit alternative.

[Forum Explorer]

Actually, the Maleceptor's dual-kit alternative is the Toxicrene.


The Tervigon's dual-kit alternative is the Tyrannofex.


It's the Exocrine that is the Haruspex's dual-kit alternative.

My bad, I meant Exocrine, but got the names jumbled.

Uh. They can? Since when? The alternate for the Haruspex is the maleceptor, and I've gotten enough chemical burns from gluing gargoyles together that I don't think they can really be used for that.

Not trying to come across as hostile, I am legitimately wondering if I missed a memo.

For termagaunts it is a conversion, but you leave off the wings, and either have them as worm termagaunts or find a substitute for the back legs

[Mystic Muse]

Actually, the Maleceptor's dual-kit alternative is the Toxicrene.


The Tervigon's dual-kit alternative is the Tyrannofex.


It's the Exocrine that is the Haruspex's dual-kit alternative.

Darn, I was really hoping to pick up a Maleceptor for like half off from somebody.

My bad, I meant Exocrine, but got the names jumbled.



For termagaunts it is a conversion, but you leave off the wings, and either have them as worm termagaunts or find a substitute for the back legs

Okay, guess that's fair. I was just honestly befuddled.

What new models from Necrons are worth getting?

I sadly don't have an answer, just making sure this doesn't get buried on the last page.