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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm View Post
    As an avid GA: Death player, magnetize your stuff as foam's protection is inversely proportional to the amount of spindly bits on the model. strong magnets on the base a bit of ventilation siding in a box is surprisingly effective transport method.
    Since I play Space Marines, never had an issue with spiky bits rubbing foam and scratching off the paint.
    Since I like bright colours (I paint 40K wrong, don't worry about it), I have never felt the need to run the risk and varnish my models.

    However, now that I play D&D, my minis are all sorts of shapes and sizes, and foam is Not Good (*Fantano explosion*), but I still don't want to varnish my models, because I still like bright colours, and spraying everything with matte makes me sad.

    I have found that a better solution is to use Washers (which are cheaper than GW bases...). They add a lot of weight to the model. But, I've found that using actual magnets may run a risk, because when painting and playing DND, I find that my minis are almost always near someone's phone or other electrical device, and I often place minis near my laptop on my desk, and I regularly put my minis on top of my laptop when I'm working out encounters and stuff. So yeah, magnets in models' bases is not for me. But washers are plentiful and cheap from literally any hardware store.

    x50 25mm bases for $7 (AUD). For reference, in Australia, GW sells 10 bases for $7. ****. I can go to Bunnings, buy 50 bases, and still have $3 left over from a tenner to get a sausage sizzle. (It's an Australia thing...You wouldn't get it).

    Then go to an arts store (or, since it's Bunnings, literally just stay in the store forever), and buy some magnetic strips, and done.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-10-13 at 08:01 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraunograf View Post
    I've just always had people go with the foam luggage container basically. Cut holes that are exactly the sizes of your models, have one for each army you drag around. A little bit of a pain to pack and unpack, but not that bad and your models are perfectly safe.
    Foam worked for me back when I played tau when (uhhh is there a specific term for the clear base extender thing a jump unit goes on?) was straight but I've been looking for somewhere to put my painted sister, most of which are seraphim and zepherim, and I'm not sure foam is going to work as well for me for these newer curved base extender things.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    is there a specific term for the clear base extender thing a jump unit goes on?
    Flight stand.

    but I've been looking for somewhere to put my painted sister, most of which are seraphim and zepherim, and I'm not sure foam is going to work as well for me for these newer curved base extender things.
    As my previous post. Super-gluing a washer underneath a base - or using one straight up as the base - gives your model some decent weight to lower the centre of gravity, which makes it easier to use during gameplay, as well. And then in your storage or transport cases, magnetic strips.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-10-13 at 08:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
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    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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    Cheesegear is awesome

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Since I play Space Marines, never had an issue with spiky bits rubbing foam and scratching off the paint.
    Since I like bright colours (I paint 40K wrong, don't worry about it), I have never felt the need to run the risk and varnish my models.

    However, now that I play D&D, my minis are all sorts of shapes and sizes, and foam is Not Good (*Fantano explosion*), but I still don't want to varnish my models, because I still like bright colours, and spraying everything with matte makes me sad.

    I have found that a better solution is to use Washers (which are cheaper than GW bases...). They add a lot of weight to the model. But, I've found that using actual magnets may run a risk, because when painting and playing DND, I find that my minis are almost always near someone's phone or other electrical device, and I often place minis near my laptop on my desk, and I regularly put my minis on top of my laptop when I'm working out encounters and stuff. So yeah, magnets in models' bases is not for me. But washers are plentiful and cheap from literally any hardware store.

    x50 25mm bases for $7 (AUD). For reference, in Australia, GW sells 10 bases for $7. ****. I can go to Bunnings, buy 50 bases, and still have $3 left over from a tenner to get a sausage sizzle. (It's an Australia thing...You wouldn't get it).

    Then go to an arts store (or, since it's Bunnings, literally just stay in the store forever), and buy some magnetic strips, and done.
    I magnetize mine, but yes I've seen issues where people's Daemonettes snap together at the base, or you find out that there's a metal bar under the table and someone's Bloodthirster keeps pulling backwards from combat because the magnets want to attach to the bar.

    But, the magnets are super convenient. I just bought some cake trays to pop my whole army onto and have had 0 issues. I also bought some metal movement trays from MiniMagTray (UK based company) and it made playing Bonesplitterz super easy. But I've seen people with washers attach magnets to MDF move trays for similar results, just a bit more work.

    I've found that sheet magnets (the type on the back of fridge magnets) are better than the rare earth ones. They're not as strong, so you don't get the "hugging infantry" issues, but still strong enough to make transporting safe. I just glue them on the base, trim to size, and call it a day. You can buy em for like a buck per sheet and one sheet will cover something like 20-30+ infantry models, depending on how snug you put them on and how little waste ends up. It's a bit less useful for big models, where I still use a couple rare earth magnets.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Flight stand.
    Ah, thank you.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    On magnets and bases, I’m currently having the delight of magnetising the Terminators from Space Hulk, so I can still use them in Space Hulk but also in 40k. It’s working quite well, thought there were a few unfortunate overdrilling incidents, which required the addition of skulls to cover over. Skulls fix everything.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    On magnets and bases, I’m currently having the delight of magnetising the Terminators from Space Hulk, so I can still use them in Space Hulk but also in 40k. It’s working quite well, thought there were a few unfortunate overdrilling incidents, which required the addition of skulls to cover over. Skulls fix everything.
    I'm working on my second magnetization experiments this weekend on some Retributers. It's harder then it looks that's for sure.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    I'm working on my second magnetization experiments this weekend on some Retributers. It's harder then it looks that's for sure.
    What I’ve found works is to drill a pilot hole with a pin vise hand drill, then very slowly use a power drill with a bit the necessary size to widen the hole. And I mean slowly. As slow as it can go while still actually moving.

    Also, it seems really obvious when you say it, but you can put paper over magnets while positioning and gluing them to make sure they don’t glue to each other. Allows gluing in situ, rather than needing to guess at the exact fit when gluing apart.
    Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    What I’ve found works is to drill a pilot hole with a pin vise hand drill, then very slowly use a power drill with a bit the necessary size to widen the hole. And I mean slowly. As slow as it can go while still actually moving.

    Also, it seems really obvious when you say it, but you can put paper over magnets while positioning and gluing them to make sure they don’t glue to each other. Allows gluing in situ, rather than needing to guess at the exact fit when gluing apart.
    I've found on occasion that reinforcing the magnet with a bit of green stuff can be helpful; usually this came up with Nid's big monsters where the magnet would keep popping out of the joint after a few games, a bit of green stuff around the top helped keep in in place.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    So the next special edition miniature is a Terminator Chaplain. Chalk up another one for the Firstborn?
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    So the next special edition miniature is a Terminator Chaplain. Chalk up another one for the Firstborn?
    The CAD is strong with this one.
    I thought I'd seen it before.
    I looked up the last Terminator Chaplain.
    It's basically exactly the same.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    The CAD is strong with this one.
    I thought I'd seen it before.
    I looked up the last Terminator Chaplain.
    It's basically exactly the same.
    Hey now, this one has TWO crux terminatus for some reason, one on each shoulder!

    I can only imagine that GW uses Terminator characters to teach people how to use the tools they have, then release them for special occasions. It’s very silly to still be putting out Terminators when everything else is Primaris.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Guide to Space Marines
    Part I - The non-Roster Part

    Spoiler: Detachment Abilities
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    Angels of Death
    Almost all of your units - including Vehicles - are going to have the Angels of Death rule, which is going to grant the following:
    And They Shall Know No Fear. Ignore modifiers to Combat Attrition tests...And no-one cared.

    Bolter Discpline. If an INFANTRY unit (excluding CENTURIONS...Why?) remains stationary in the Movement phase, Rapid Fire 'Bolt' weapons double their number of attacks, even if the target isn't within half-range. TERMINATOR units can always Rapid Fire, and so can BIKER units. But also why not Centurions?

    Shock Assault. If a unit Charges, is Charged, or performs a Heroic Intervention, each model gains an extra Attack.


    ADEPTUS ASTARTES Detachments:
    • If your entire Detachment is made up of ADEPTUS ASTARTES models, your Detachment may include one CAPTAIN and up to two LIEUTENANT models. So, even though LIEUTENANTS come two-per-Slot, you can still only have two per Detachment.
    • If all the models in your ADEPTUS ASTARTES Detachment are drawn from the same <CHAPTER>, gain the Chapter Tactics abilitiy.
    • All Troops in an ADEPTUS ASTARTES Detachment gain Objective Secured. Pretty self-explanatory. But, be aware that in the Space Marines' Codex, there are many other ways to gain Objective Secured, and Troops-to-grab-Objectives aren't as important as they may appear.

    <CHAPTER> Keyword: An ADEPTUS ASTARTES Detachment can't include models/units from two different Chapters. Fair enough. Makes sense.

    ADEPTUS ASTARTES Armies:
    If your Army contains only ADEPTUS ASTARTES, AGENTS OF THE IMPERIUM and/or UNALIGNED units, your Astartes units gain a powerful Combat Doctrine ability.
    • Round 1, Devastator Doctrine is active for your army; Heavy and Grenade weapons increase their AP by an additional -1. Heavy weapons make up the majority of the best weapons in your available Roster. Turn 1 will potentially always be your strongest turn.
    • Round 2, Tactical Doctrine is active for your army; Rapid Fire and Assault weapons increase their AP by an additional -1. Now that your heavy-hitting (no pun intended) Turn 1 is over, and your opponent has likely removed some of your stronger units, you will need to fall back on the core units (again, no pun intended) of your army, which, in the Space Marines' Codex, is largely going to consist of models with Rapid Fire weapons...Assault weapons, not so much.
    • Round 3, you may choose Tactical Doctrine or Assault Doctrine. Contrary to how your brain works, Assault weapons are not buffed by the Assault Doctrine.
    • On Round 4 and all remaining Rounds, Assault Doctrine is active. Melee and Pistol weapons increase their AP. This is potentially useless, since all of your Melee damage should have been done well before now. Maybe you can hold your own in the late game? But your opponent should be in an equally terrible board position as you. If they're not, then the game was probably already decided a Turn or two ago.



    Chapter Tactics

    Dark Angels: If a model hasn't moved this turn, gain +1 to hit. This can be good, since it cancels out all the -1 to hits that good units have, and additionally it helps you not die in your opponent's turn when they Charge you. But, in the current edition, Melee is either 0/10 or 10/10, with no middle ground. If your opponent is charging you, chances are that they know what they're doing, and +1 to hit isn't going to help you. If your unit is strong melee unit anyway, +1 to hit, also wont help you. Additionally, Dark Angels always pass Combat Attrition tests...WTF are Astartes units taking Attrition tests for?
    Dark Angels can't take Sternguard or Vanguard.

    White Scars: Advance or Fall Back, and Charge, in the same turn. Very strong with the right units, since it's highly unlikely that your opponent will waste CPs by trying to Overwatch...Besides, they can only do it once, and you have more than one unit. Bait it out. Additionally, your White Scars can Advance and Shoot, no penalties. Pretty strong. White Scars pretty good.

    Space Wolves: When you Charge, or are Charged, you gain +1 to hit on your melee attacks. Additionally, every unit you own can perform Heroic Interventions. You're way better off playing with White Scars, since at least they can get into Melee on their terms. There are a few things to like about Space Wolves...Their Chapter Tactics, isn't one of them.
    Space Wolves can't take Tactical Squads, APOTHECARY units, Sternguard or Vanguard, Assault Squads or Devastator Squads

    Imperial Fists: All of your models ignore Light Cover. Potentially comes into play. But, the only terrains that really make a difference are Dense and/or Obscuring Terrain. Light Cover is...Well, it's onl most boards. Additionally, every time a model fires a 'Bolt' weapon, they gain an additional hit on a '6' to hit - this is pretty good, since almost any unit you own, is going to feature a Bolt weapon and extra shots is just a nice add.

    Crimson Fists: +1 to hit vs. units with 5 or more models than your attacking unit. VEHICLES (but not MONSTERS? ) count as 5 models. This isn't good. Who is running units of 10+ models? Even single CHARACTER models need to be attacking against units of at least 6. Terrible. Additionally, Crimson Fists have the same 'Bolt' weapon ability that Imperial Fists do. While ignoring Light Cover isn't anything to write home about. It's likely to come up more than somebody running units with 10+ models.

    Black Templars: Re-roll Advance and Charge rolls. This is especially strong if you're playing a Reserve-heavy army and all your melee units just so happen to start 9" away from your opponent every time. Additionally, Black Templars have Ignore Wounds (5+) vs. Mortal Wounds.
    Black Templars can't take Librarians.

    Blood Angels: +1 to Advance and Charge. Additionally, when you Charge or are Charged, gain +1 to wound. Very strong, and dunks on both Dark Angels and Space Wolves, since +1 to wound, is way better than +1 to hit.

    Flesh Tearers: When you Charge or are Charged, +1 to wound. Additionally, melee attacks by Flesh Tearers increase their AP when you roll a '6' to wound, which doesn't stack with the first ability. Which is dumb. But it does stack with Assault Doctrine. Why aren't you playing Black Templars which are the same, except better? ...You're right. Blood Angels-specific units. Why not play Blood Angels?

    Iron Hands: Ignore Wounds (6+). Additionally, Vehicles count as having double wounds for their damage table (if any). Giving Vehicles the ability to ignore wounds, and also making them still good even if they do take wounds, means that Iron Hands are obviously the Chapter that has the best Vehicles - if that's your jam. However, just by having Ignore Wounds, all of the tough Space Marine units, are simply that much tougher. Which allows you to hold Objectives better, and allows you to shoot more in later turns 'cause your units aren't dead. Very strong Chapter.

    Ultramarines: +1 Leadership. Fall Back and Shoot with -1 to hit. You should do this if your opponent is going to give you -1 to hit anyway (e.g; Craftworlds). Not a great Chapter Tactic. But, the strength of Ultramarines is in their named Characters, not with their Chapter Tactics.

    Salamanders: Every time a unit shoots or fights, you can re-roll one to wound roll, a free CP re-roll on every unit, every phase, is pretty solid - even if it isn't required. Additionally, Salamanders ignore the AP on AP-1 weapons. This is really good since 'AP affects everyone equally' no longer applies to Salamanders, which means that your opponents need to bring AP- weapons, which do nothing, or AP-2 weapons, which costs points. Generally speaking, you should be able to counter what most opponents are doing, unless they are specifically tailoring against you. Salamanders are pretty good. Against many match-ups, they are better than Iron Hands.

    Raven Guard: If your opponent is 18", you count as being in Light Cover...+1 save isn't that great (well, for Vehicles it's amazing...). Additionally, INFANTRY, in any Terrain feature, gain the benefit of Dense Cover if the attacking unit is 12" or more away. Yeah...Okay. That's ridiculously strong. Raven Guard make very good gunlines against other gunlines, since the other gunline wont necessarily be able to shoot back.

    Deathwatch: Deathwatch gain re-roll 1s to hit in Melee only, vs. TYRANIDS, AELDARI, ORK, NECRONS or T'AU EMPIRE units. Additionally, after Deployment, gain re-roll 1s to wound vs. any Battlefield Role you choose.
    Deathwatch can't take Tactical Squads, SCOUT units, Sternguard, Assault Squads, Bike Squads, Attack Bike Squads or Devastator Squads.


    Spoiler: Successor Tactics
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    If you don't like a printed Chapter, you can make one of your own by picking two of the following. In addition to picking your 'custom' Successor Tactics, you also get to pick your Founding Chapter (which must be a First Founding Chapter - so no Deathwatch or Black Templars Successors). Picking your Founding Chapter doesn't meant anything, until you go out and buy one of the many Space Marine Supplements books. Once again, who your Founding Chapter is, makes no difference, unless you buy a Supplement. That being said, GW is GW, so you're very, very encouraged to buy at least one Space Marine Supplement, since it will literally add new rules and strategies to your army. Do you really want to leave extra rules on the table for no reason? ...Maybe you do, maybe you don't.

    You can take multiple Successor Tactics in multiple Detachments. As long as you claim that they all come from the same First Founding Chapter, you still get to use army-wide bonus for playing a single 'Chapter'.
    (e.g; You have a 'main' Detachment of Ultramarines, and then you additionally have a number of units in your army, who have no intention of ever Falling Back, and as such the Ultramarine Chapter Tactic would be useless. However, if you claim that the secondary Detachment is an Ultramarine Successor, you can still use all the 'stuff' from the Ultramarine Supplement, and keep the army-wide bonus for having an army of all-'Ultramarines'.)

    Bolter Fusillades: Re-roll 1s to hit with Bolt weapons.

    Born Heroes: Only when you Charge, gain +1 to hit with Melee attacks.

    Duellists: When your models make Melee attacks against INFANTRY and BIKER units, a '6' to hit automatically wounds. Does not stack with Whirlwind of Rage.

    Fearsome Aspect: All of your units gain an Aura 3"; Enemy models have -1 Leadership. You don't win games with Morale tests.

    Hungry for Battle: +1 to Advance and Charge.

    Indomitable: Auto-pass Combat Attrition tests. What are you taking Combat Attrition tests for?

    Inheritors of the Primarch: You get to pretend you're not a First Founding Chapter, except you are. Except you don't get any of the benefits of actually being the Chapter. The only time to use this Successor Tactic is when 1) You have a custom Chapter that you really like, and 2) You do not have access to a Supplement for whatever reason. There is no actual mechanical reason to pick this Successor Tactic. Just tell your opponents that they are the printed Chapter of your choice (e.g. Black Templars), or don't use this Successor Tactic at all.
    This is purely a gatekeeping mechanic, and anyone with slightly more than half a brain will never, ever use this Successor Tactic. It's bad, and the reason it's here, is bad.

    Knowledge is Power: You rr1s when making a Psychic or Deny the Witch tests. Your army is more than a handful of Librarians. Do not take this. Ever. But let's say you do want to have a Supreme Command Detachment of three Librarians; The following don't rely on the <CHAPTER> Keyword:
    • Smite
    • Librarius. Null Zone, Psychic Scourge, Fury of the Ancients
    • Obscuration. Mind Raid, Hallucination, Tenebrous Curse

    That is, a 'Knowledge is Power' Detachment takes Witchfires and Maledictions. Not Blessings.

    Long-range Marksmen: Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons (not 'Flame' weapons) gain +3" range.

    Master Artisans: Whenever a unit shoots or fights, you can re-roll one to hit roll. It's a free CP re-roll for the unit. Potentially the best Successor Tactic in the list. Potentially doesn't do anything all game. Very 'swingy'. Especially in a Space Marines' army where re-rolls to hit aren't exactly hard to come by.

    Preferred Enemy: Choose one during list creation; CHAOS KNIGHTS, TYRANIDS, AELDARI, ORK, HERETIC ASTARTES, NECRONS or T'AU EMPIRE. In Melee, your models re-roll 1s to hit vs. your chosen Faction. Very, very meta-dependent. And if you do play against 'one opponent' all the time, this is certainly an auto-pick to build your entire army around.

    Rapid Assault: Advance and shoot Assault weapons. No penalty.

    Scions of the Forge: Your Vehicles count as having double wounds for their damage table. Pretty good.

    Stalwart: To wound rolls of 1 or 2 always fail against you. This makes S8, 9 and 10 weapons less good in your opponent's list. Unfortunately, the way to kill Space Marines is to run S5, 6 and 7, so it's not like this Successor Tactic is particularly useful.

    Stealthy: If your attacker is over 18" away, you are in Light Cover (+1 Armour Sv.). This is very good, or very useless. Depending on how you've built your army. If you already know that you want to play a gunline, go for it.

    Stoic: +1 Leadership doesn't mean anything.

    Tactical Withdrawal: Fall Back and Charge in the same turn. Yep. Units can barely Overwatch. Roll hard.

    Warded: Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+). Highly situational. You're better off ignoring 2s to wound - and that's not even that good!

    Whirlwind of Rage: If you Charge or are Charged, a '6' to hit, scores an extra hit. Doesn't stack with Duellists...Which is better anyway.


    Spoiler: Chapter Command
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    In addition to your normal Characters, one model in your army may be upgraded with one of the following Keywords. Additionally, no two models from the same <CHAPTER> can have the same Command Keyword (e.g; You can't have an Ultramarines' Chief Librarian, in an army that also includes Chief Librarian Tigurius).
    • Black Templars can't take Chapter Champions.
    • Deathwatch can't take Chapter Masters.
    • Blood Angels can't take Chapter Ancients.

    Chapter Master: Coming out of a CAPTAIN, a Chapter Master lets you pick a Core unit or Character to re-roll all their hits until your next turn. Pretty solid. Interestingly, a single Detachment can include both a CAPTAIN and CHAPTER MASTER. It's a lot of points. But you can do it.
    • Warlord Trait; Roll a 4+, gain a CP.
    • Relic; Sv 2+, +1W and T. Great. Literally everyone should run Captain on Bike now, yes?

    Master of Sanctity: A CHAPLAIN knows and can Recite an additional Litany.
    • Warlord Trait; +1 to Recite, and, Commanding Oratory only costs 1 CP when used on this model.
    • Relic; When your opponent targets this model, attacks can't be re-rolled - neither to hit, to wound or damage. This is good, sure. But it's no Benediction of Fury.

    Master of the Forge: TECHMARINE. Blessing of the Omnissiah heals 3 Wounds, instead of D3. Decent upgrade.
    • Warlord Trait; <CHAPTER> DREADNOUGHTS within 6" gain +1S and +1A. Build your list around it. But Melee Dreadnoughts? Really?
    • Relic; Your Power Axe is now a lite-Thunder Hammer, that deals Mortal Wounds to VEHICLES. Not great.

    Chief Librarian: LIBRARIAN, obviously. Know and Manifest an extra Power.
    • Warlord Trait; +1 to Psychic tests. Lame
    • Relic; Psychic Hood goes for 24", now. Not great.

    Chief Apothecary: Heal twice per turn.
    • Warlord Trait; Heal 3 Wounds, instead of D3. Additionally, Combat Revival costs 0 CPs. This is one of the best ideas in the entire Codex.
    • Acquittal; One of the best Pistols in the entire game! Unfortunately, it's still a Pistol.

    Chapter Ancient: Select a <CHAPTER> CORE unit and give it +1 to hit in Melee, until your next turn.
    • Warlord Trait; Aura 6"; <CHAPTER> CORE units gain Objective Secured. If a unit already has Objective Secured, each model counts as 2. This is incredibly good, and may very well be a reason to run a Chapter Ancient as your Warlord. It's very good if you build your army around it. Who needs Troops?
    • Relic; When a model procs Astartes Banner, it can make two Melee attacks, instead of one.

    Chapter Champion: Enemy models have -1 to hit him in Melee. Re-roll to wound vs. CHARACTERS. 5 Attacks, Leadership 9.
    • Warlord Traits; <CHAPTER> CORE units and<CHAPTER> CHARACTERS within 6" can re-roll Charges.
    • Relic; Another Thunder Hammer-lite. Except unlike Techmarines, Chapter Champions actually want to hang out in Melee real bad.


    Spoiler: Stratagems
    Show
    Death to the Traitors!: When a unit makes Melee attacks vs. HERETIC ASTARTES, re-roll to hit until the end of the phase.

    Honour the Chapter (2): At the end of the Fight phase, an ASSAULT INTERCESSOR unit that's engaged, can Fight again. This Stratagem stacks with the above one. It works quite well. Unfortunately, it only works on Assault Intercessors, which simply just aren't that good, without this Stratagem, and if you need to spend 2 CPs everytime you need a unit to do something good, it's not a good unit.

    Fury of the First: Until the end of a phase, one of your TERMINATOR units has +1 to hit. Bust out the Thunder Hammers.

    Transhuman Physiology (1/2): Target PRIMARIS unit can't be wounded on less than 4+ for a single phase. The Stratagem costs 2 CPs if you use it on a unit with 6+ models. Fortunately, you're Astartes, so you don't have any units with six or more models...Right?

    Rapid Fire (2): An INTERCESSOR or VETERAN INTERCESSOR can shoot again at the end of the Shooting phase. Luckily, Intercessors are already good, so if you throw a 2 CP Stratagem on them, they'll be even better. Veteran Intercessors...Are not as good. Don't take Veteran Intercessors. Just paint 'em like Veterans.

    Gene-Wrought Might: When target PRIMARIS unit rolls 6s to hit in Melee, auto-wound.

    Unyielding in the Face of the Foe: When a GRAVIS unit is attacked by 1-Damage weapons, +1 Save. Goes for whole phase. Sure would be real strong if there was a Chapter that also ignored AP-1 weapons.

    Only in Death does Duty End (2): When one of your CHARACTER models is destroyed in the Fight phase, if it hasn't already Fought yet, Fight with it. Still, you're better off fighting with your Characters as early as possible. First, characters deal the most damage - usually. Second, why waste 2 CPs?

    Armour of Contempt: A VEHICLE gains Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+) for a phase.

    Power of the Machine Spirit (2): A MACHINE SPIRIT model in your army counts as having full wounds for their Damage table. Very strong. Worth 2 CPs, easily. Most models with the Machine Spirit Keyword are among the strongest models in your Roster.

    Wisdom of the Ancients: Target DREADNOUGHT unit gains Aura 6"; <CHAPTER> CORE can re-roll to hit or to wound. Choose when you pop the Stratagem. Can't use this on DEATH COMPANY or WULFEN Dreadnoughts.

    Commanding Oratory (2): Basically, a CHAPLAIN gets an extra Inspire when it isn't even the Command phase. A galaxy-brain use of this Stratagem is popping it when your Chaplain has come onto the board via Reinforcements and as such, has missed out on the Command phase (e.g; From a Drop Pod).

    Combat Revival: An APOTHECARY can bring an INFANTRY or BIKER model back to the board with full wounds, no roll required.
    This is a pretty big reason for Invader ATVs to come in Squadrons. So your Apothecary can bring one back for 1 CP...Or even for free. 'Cause GW. Expect a nerf to Invaders, or to Apothecaries...Or both.

    Relic of the Chapter: Army List. Gain another Chapter Relic. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hero of the Chapter: Army List. Gain another Warlord Trait. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hit-and-Run Warfare: A BIKER, LAND SPEEDER or STORM SPEEDER unit can Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn.

    Hammer of Wrath: When a JUMP PACK unit finishes a Charge move, roll vs. your opponent's Toughness for each model in your unit that makes it to Engagment. Deal Mortal Wounds. Very good.

    Skilled Riders: If a BIKER, LAND SPEEDER or STORM SPEEDER unit Advances in your Turn, your opponent has -1 to hit them in their Shooting phase.

    Uncompromising Fire (2): An INFANTRY unit can perform an [Action] and Shoot, in the same turn. Hooray!

    Steady Advance (2): When an INFANTRY unit makes a Normal move, just kidding, it counts as being stationary.

    Adaptive Strategy (2): Choose a <CHAPTER> CORE unit within 6" of your Warlord. Until your next turn, that unit has any Combat Doctrine it wants. Yes please.

    Suppression Fire: If a WHIRLWIND hits a unit using a Blast attack, that unit can't Overwatch, can't Set to Defend, and gains Always Strikes Last until your next turn.

    Terror Troops (2): Target REIVER unit gains an Aura 3": Enemy units lose Objective Secured, holy ****! Additionally, if the targeted Reiver unit is within 3" of an enemy unit performing an [Action], roll 2d6 vs. their Leadership. The Action automatically fails.

    Guerilla Tactics: Put a PHOBOS unit on the board, into Reserves. Very strong.

    Orbital Bombardment (3): Once per game. If your Warlord is on the board, choose a point on the board. Units within 6" of that point start taking Mortal Wounds, unless you roll a '1' or something dumb. 3 CPs is almost definitely not worth it.

    Auspex Scan (2): When an enemy unit arrives from Reinforcements, a unit of yours can shoot at it if they show up within 12". Can be fairly limiting. But if your opponent is abusing the **** out of 9e's Reserve rules, you're gonna need the 2 CPs.

    Tremor Shells: Give one of your own THUNDERFIRE CANNON -1 to wound; If it hits a unit that isn't TITANIC and doesn't FLY, that unit halves their Move, and has -2 to Advance and Charge until your next turn.

    Shock and Awe: When a LAND SPEEDER STORM (not a Storm Speeder, GW doesn't know other words again) or unit with SHOCK GRENADES shoots, the targeted unit can't fire Overwatch or Set to Defend, and has -1 to hit until your next turn.

    Assault Launchers: When an ASSAULT LAUNCHERS unit Charges, the targeted unit can either 'Brace' or 'Duck for Cover'. A Braced unit takes D3 Mortal Wounds. A unit that ducks for cover loses an attack per model (with no minimum?), and can't Overwatch or Set to Defend.

    Melta Bomb: When a MELTA BOMBS unit targets a VEHICLE in the Fight phase, roll to hit, and deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Grav Pulse: A REPULSOR FIELD model does one of the following; Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn. Or, when Charged, your opponent has -2 to Charge your unit.

    Hellfire Shells: When an INFANTRY model shoots a Heavy Bolter, make one to hit roll, and deal D3 Mortal Wounds. Against MONSTER units, deal 3 Mortal Wounds.
    Monsters bad, Vehicles good. Classic GW.

    Flakk Missile: When an INFANTRY model with a Missile Launcher targets an AIRCRAFT, make an attack with +1 to hit (i.e; Cancelling out most Aircraft's -1 to hit). Deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Smokescreen: When a SMOKESCREEN unit is targeted, your opponent has -1 to hit.


    Spoiler: Warlord Traits
    Show
    Space Marine Warlord Traits
    1. Aura 6"; Enemy units have -1 to Leadership, and have -1 to Combat Attrition.
    2. Warlord re-rolls Charges, and when it Charges, gain +1S and +1A.
    3. +1W and Ignore Wounds (6+)
    4. When your Warlord is Engaged with a CHARACTER, +1A...Whether you attack the Character or not. However, against Characters, your Warlord also has +1 to hit and wound.
    5. Aura 6"; <CHAPTER> CORE units improve the AP of their attacks by -1, on a 6 to wound.
    6. Aura 6"; <CHAPTER> CORE units and CHARACTER models have Objective Secured. Very good.

    Phobos Warlord Traits
    1. <CHAPTER> PHOBOS unit within 6" that has attacked in the Shooting phase, can Move or Advance. It cannot Charge.
    2. Redeploy up to 3 <CHAPTER> PHOBOS units. Explicitly allowing them into Reserves. This doesn't cost CPs.
    3. Aura 6" <CHAPTER> PHOBOS units have +1 to Move, Advance, Fall Back and Charge.
    4. Your Warlord can't be targeted at all by ranged attacks, unless it's the closest model to the attacker.
    5. A <CHAPTER> PHOBOS unit within 6" gains +1 to hit on their ranged attacks.
    6. Your Warlord's ranged weapons have +1 Damage - does not include Grenades or Relics.

    Dark Angels: Pick a unit within 6", and instead of whatever Combat Doctrine your army is currently on, the unit has the previous Doctrine until your next turn. This is pretty good.

    White Scars: When your Warlord completes a Charge, roll a 2+, and deal a Mortal Wound. No.

    Space Wolves: +1 Attack and to hit and wound vs. Monsters and Vehicles in the Fight phase. Lame.

    Imperial Fists: Aura 6"; If a CORE unit within 6" already has the benefit of (Light? Dense?) Cover, they ignore the AP of AP-1 attacks. So basically you get to 'ignore Ignore Cover'. Not great.

    Crimson Fists: When your Warlord dies, roll a 4+, and stand back up with D3 Wounds. Can not be used with Only in Death Does Duty End, nor trigger an Astartes Banner. But you can use those things the 'second' time your Warlord is destroyed.

    Black Templars: Heroic Intervene 6". Hard pass.

    Blood Angels: Always Strike First. Situational. But not useless.

    Flesh Tearers: Gain +D3 attacks if there are five or more enemy models within 3".

    Iron Hands: Your Warlord can repair 1 Wound to a VEHICLE per turn. If your Warlord is a TECHMARINE, Blessing of the Omnissiah heals D3+1. ****. If your Warlord is a Techmarine, you should be using a Master of the Forge, and you don't even need to be Iron Hands to do that. This Warlord Trait is dumb.

    Ultramarines: Whenever you spend a CP, roll a 5+, and refund it. Remembering that you can only refund one CP per Round, so this isn't that good.

    Salamanders: Your Warlord has +2 Strength. Strap your Relic Blades on.

    Raven Guard: Once per game, your Warlord is put into Reinforcements, and reappears in your next turn, following the rules for Reinforcements for that turn.

    Deathwatch: Select a CORE unit within 6", that unit gains rr1 to wound vs. another Battlefield Role as well as the one you already have from Xenos Hunters.


    Spoiler: Relics
    Show
    The Armour Indomitus: Bearer gains +1W, 2+ Save, and once per game, until the end of a phase, may have a 3+ Invulnerable. Pretty good.

    The Shield Eternal: Replaces a [Shield]. It's a Storm Shield that grants Ignore Wounds (5+). Greatest benefit is on a Company or Chapter Champion, whose Shield is only a Combat Shield.

    Standard of the Emperor Ascendant: ANCIENT. Astartes Banner gains +3", and <CHAPTER> PHOBOS re-roll Morale tests. Terrible.

    Teeth of Terra: [Astartes Chainsword]. Massive benefit. However, can be difficult to get since Primaris Captains don't have access to Chainswords. So you end up having to take Firstborn Characters.

    Primarch's Wrath: [Boltgun or Bolt Carbine]. Another very strong weapon that Primaris Marine Characters struggle to access due to lack of access to Boltguns.

    The Burning Blade: [Power Sword]. The best weapon in the Codex, bar none. However, Thunder Hammers and Power Fists are 'good enough', and leave your Relic slots open for you to take other things that probably matter more.

    Purgatorus: [Bolt Pistol]. It's a really nice Pistol...That's also still a Pistol.

    Reliquary of Gathalamor: PRIMARIS only. Aura 18"; Enemy PSYKERS have -1 to Psychic tests, and, if those Psykers should fail a Psychic test, roll a 4+, and they take a Perils. Pretty strong anti-Psyker Aura.

    Bellicos Bolt Rifle: [Auto Bolt Rifle]. Like Primarch's Wrath, but not quite as good, and for Primaris Marines.

    Lament: [Stalker Bolt Rifle]. It's...Nice. But a Captain in Phobos Armour already does this, while ignoring Look Out, Sir!, and not taking a Relic slot.

    Ghostweave Cloak: PHOBOS model with a Camo Cloak]. Can move - but not Charge - through models. Additionally, all attacks made against the bearer have -1 to hit. This is potentially one of the strongest Relics in the book when worn by a Librarian in Phobos Armour. The ability to move through or over enemy models, and Charge enemy Characters directly has some very powerful applications against the right opponent. Unfortunately, this 'trick' will likely only ever work once. Once your opponent knows you can do it, they're not going to let you do it again, 'cause they're not made of straw.

    Tome of Malcador: LIBRARIAN. Know an extra Power. Do you get to Manifest an extra Power, too? ...Nope. Save your Relic slot, and simply upgrade your Librarian to a Chief for +25 Points. It's better. This Relic is actual garbage.

    Benediction of Fury: A CHAPLAIN can pick up what looks a lot like a Thunder Hammer. Except it doesn't come with negs to hit, and deals a Mortal Wound on a 6 to wound. On it's own, it's strictly inferior to The Burning Blade (above). However, in the hands of a Chaplain, it can become really, really strong via Mantra of Strength. Chaplains are cheaper than Captains, and, they don't have to buy a Thunder Hammer for more points, either. A Chaplain with Benediction of Fury is actually one of the strongest Melee-orientated Characters in the Roster. You get a model that is greater than the sum of its parts.

    The Honour Vehement: Aura 6"; CORE units gain +1 Attack for each model, but doesn't stack with Shock Assault. So the idea is to have Melee units, but also to let your opponent, Charge you?

    The Vox Espiritum: A PRIMARIS Character has their Auras increased by 3"...Unless the Auras are granted by Psychic Powers. There are many, many Auras in the book worth having an extra 3" on.


    Spoiler: Powers
    Show
    Librariaus Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". <CHAPTER> unit re-rolls Advance and Charge rolls, and gains Always Strikes First.
    2. WC6, 12". <CHAPTER> CORE or CHARACTER gains +1S, T and A.
    3. WC7, Aura 6". All units - friendly and enemy - lose their Invulnerable saves, and enemy Psykers halve their Psychic tests.
    4. WC6, 18". Roll off vs. target unit's Leadership. Deal Mortal Wounds. Decent targeted attack against enemy Characters.
    5. WC6, 18". Draw a line between any part of the Psyker's base, and any part of the model's base (OR HULL). Every enemy unit under the line takes a Mortal Wound. It's interesting that you can manage to not hit your own units with the 'line'.
    6. WC6, Aura 6". Friendly <CHAPTER> units within range have a 5+ Invulnerable. Very good.

    Obscuration Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". PHOBOS unit can't be targeted with ranged attacks, unless it's the closest unit to the attacker. Very good.
    2. WC6, 18". PHOBOS unit gains rr1 to hit with shooting attacks, and ignores cover.
    3. WC6, 18". Deal a Mortal Wound to an enemy model. If the model is a Character, roll 3d6 vs. their Leadership, gain a CP.
    4. WC6, 18". Target unit has -1 Leadership, and has -1 to hit.
    5. WC7, 18". Target unit that can't Fly, takes a Mortal Wound, and halves their Move value, and takes -2 to Advance and Charge.
    6. WC5, 6". PHOBOS unit can't Shoot or Fight this turn...Umm...But can make a normal Move, or auto-Advance +6". Situational, but not useless. Unfortunately, not worth choosing, over any of the other Powers.

    Litanies of Battle
    0. Aura 6"; <CHAPTER> CORE units or CHARACTER models can re-roll to hit in the Fight phase.
    1. 6". A <CHAPTER> CORE units or CHARACTER gains Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+).
    2. 6". A <CHAPTER> CORE units or CHARACTER gains +1 to wound on Shooting attacks vs. the closest eligible target.
    3. 6". A <CHAPTER> CORE units or CHARACTER gains +1 to wound in the Fight phase.
    4. Self. The PRIEST gains +1S and A, and Melee weapons - including Relics - gain +1 Damage.
    5. 6". A <CHAPTER> CORE units or CHARACTER gains +1 to hit in the Shooting phase.
    6. Aura 6"; A <CHAPTER> CORE units and CHARACTER models gains +2 to Charge which doesn't stack with any other bonuses to Charge. Additionally, units can Pile-In and Consolidate 6". Which is real good, if that's what you're going for.


    Spoiler: Secondary Objectives
    Show
    If your Army contains only ADEPTUS ASTARTES, AGENTS OF THE IMPERIUM and/or UNALIGNED units, and your Warlord is an ADEPTUS ASTARTES, you may choose one of the following, in place of any other Secondary Objective.

    Codex Warfare (Purge):
    - Gain a VP every time an ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit destroys an enemy unit with a Heavy or Grenade weapon, whilst Devastator Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit destroys an enemy unit with a Rapid Fire or Assault weapon, whilst Tactical Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit destroys an enemy unit with a Pistol or Melee weapon, whilst Assault Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    This Secondary is...Not great. Since it encourages you to not destroy your opponent's models as fast as you can on Turn 1 with all your Heavy weapons because you can only destroy 5 units before you run out of points. Second, it slows down everything else, too, because now you're disincentivised to take out units with small arms fire on Turn 1. Just, bad. Technically, it might be 'more fun' for your opponent, but now the onus is on you to slow the game down. Furthermore, this Secondary is problematic for Chapters who want to be in Melee on Turn 1 (e.g; White Scars) or Turn 2 (e.g; Black Templars), because you're doing all your Melee damage before Assault Doctrine is even active, so you get nothing. Another problem with this Objective is that it competes with other Purge Objectives, which are a lot easier, and allow your AGENTS OF THE IMPERIUM that you run (i.e; Assassins) to actually do their job and take out your opponent's Characters.
    (inb4; "This Objective is good because it provides disincentives to dunking on Turn 1." Incorrect. People just wont take this Objective in the first place.)

    Shock Tactics (Battlefield Supremacy): At the end of the round, gain 3 VPs if you took an Objective from your opponent using an ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit. This is doable. But also it's harder to do if you go first, because the Objective is scored at the end of the round, rather than Turn, which the other Battlefield Supremacy Objectives, do. If you're taking Objectives from your opponent, you may as well be scoring Linebreaker, instead, because Linebreaker scores at the end of your turn, and your opponent can't stop you. But doesn't Shock Tactics stack with going for Primary Objectives, too? Primary Objectives are equally as problematic, because your opponent can stop you, and now they're getting a two-fer, and they're more incentivised to shoot your units off of Objectives. Finally, if you're stealing Objectives off of your opponents, you really should be using the Domination Objective, instead.
    The only way this Secondary is viable, is if you go Second. However, choosing your Secondaries happens long before you determine who goes first, Hell, you haven't even picked your DZ sides yet.

    Oaths of Moment (No Mercy, No Respite):
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if an ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit destroyed a CHARACTER, VEHICLE or MONSTER. Once again, this encourages slower destruction, because you have to 'save' your opponents models for later turns. Additionally, your Assassins that you may or may not have brought to the table, can't contribute.
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if none of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES units failed a Morale test, or Fell Back. Astartes don't fail Morale tests, they just die. So that's easy. However, the second part is a bit harder to reconcile, especially for Chapters that love Falling Back (e.g; White Scars or Ultramarines), and removes very good tactical options from your arsenal (e.g; Land Speeder Hit & Runs).
    - Gain 2 VPs at the end of a Round if one of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES units is wholly within 6" of the middle of the battlefield. Should be doable. Especially if you've accidentally gone second.

    This is arguably the 'best' Astartes Objective, and you can only choose one, so choose this one. Just as importantly, this is a No Mercy, No Respite Objective, which has very little competition. Alternatively, pick an [Action] Objective to do and burn 2CPs every turn to still shoot with the extremely strong Stratagem since that would actively contribute to winning the game.


    Part II - Characters and Core Units and Characters.
    Part III - Non-Core Units
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2020-12-09 at 10:18 PM.
    Spoiler: My Mum Says I'm Cool
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuan View Post
    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Since I play Space Marines, never had an issue with spiky bits rubbing foam and scratching off the paint.
    Since I like bright colours (I paint 40K wrong, don't worry about it), I have never felt the need to run the risk and varnish my models.
    Not so much the rubbing off paint, but having models stick to, dig into or othervise poke the foam is a problem for models that are overly complex. If you paly Dwarfs or Space Marines storage was enver an issue. For everyone lese trying to customize trays was a bother.

    The real kick in the pants is when you done that and you shake the case enough, maybe some flight crew got hold of your case, the parts shift, grab hold of the foam and snap. All the while supposedly carried safe in customized foamtrays. if you are lucky it's just a badly superglued join that fails at the seam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    I've found that sheet magnets (the type on the back of fridge magnets) are better than the rare earth ones. They're not as strong, so you don't get the "hugging infantry" issues, but still strong enough to make transporting safe. I just glue them on the base, trim to size, and call it a day. You can buy em for like a buck per sheet and one sheet will cover something like 20-30+ infantry models, depending on how snug you put them on and how little waste ends up. It's a bit less useful for big models, where I still use a couple rare earth magnets.
    The trick with magnetizing is you need 2 things, magnet and enough ferrous on the other side. You can increase magnet if not got enough ferrous but at some point it gets dangerous to others. Lol @ Bloodthirster moving by itself. Ideally you want to balance it. I found a product called "steel paper" which was thin steel clad in paper, could be cut with scissors (don't ruin mom's special one!) and excellent for lining the bottom of WHFB moment trays. For most plastic minis sheetmagnet and steelpaper was enough. But the trick is you really need to make sure you get a flat contact. I've had to fill the bases of hundreds of Skaven models to get sheetmagnet to perfectly touch the movementtray. I found you could buy sheet magnets in tape form which cuts down on the amount of cutting you have to do. If really lucky can get it exactly to the size of the bases, though for me for aesthetic reasons I prefered the fill-base-up-and-glue-tape-inside-base method.

    My master piece is my last WHFB army, Skaven. The models are magnetic taped in the base. The moment trays have sheet metal inserts, as well as magnetic tape beneath that fit perfectly to the height of the lip of a standard GW modular movementtray. Then I got some boxes and put down thin sheetmetal cut to size that the movement trays complete with figs on can attach to. Then GW blew up WHFB and my work was wasted. Eff GW.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Spoiler: Stratagems
    Show
    Death to the Traitors!: When a unit makes Melee attacks vs. Heretic Astartes, re-roll to hit.

    Honour the Chapter (2): An Assault Intercessor unit that's engaged, can Fight again at the end of the phase. Really pushing Melee Marines. For 2CPs, and it only targets Assault Intercessors? What a joke.

    Fury of the First: Until the end of a phase, one of your Terminator units has +1 to hit.

    Transhuman Physiology (1/2): Target Primaris unit can't be wounded on <4+ for a phase. 1CP for <6 models. 2 CPs for 6+ models. Yet another reason for Space Marine armies to not have units with more than 5 models.

    Rapid Fire (2): An Intercessor unit can shoot a second time at the end of your phase - it'd better be 2 CPs!

    Gene-Wrought Might: When target Primaris unit rolls 6s to hit in Melee, auto-wound.

    Unyielding in the Face of the Foe: When a Gravis unit is attacked by 1-Damage weapons, +1 Save. Goes for whole phase. Sure would be real strong if there was a Chapter that also ignored AP-1 weapons.

    Only in Death does Duty End (2): When a Character dies in the Fight phase, if it hasn't already Fought yet, Fight with it. Still, you're better off fighting with your Characters as early as possible. First, characters deal the most damage - usually. Second, why waste 2 CPs?

    Armour of Contempt: A Vehicle gains Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+) for a phase.

    Power of the Machine Spirit (2): A Machine Spirit model in your army counts as having full wounds for their Damage table. Very strong. Worth 2 CPs, easily.

    Wisdom of the Ancients: Target Dreadnought unit gains; Core units within 6" can re-roll to hit or to wound. Choose when you pop the Stratagem. Can't use this on Death Company or Wulfen Dreadnoughts.

    Commanding Oratory (2): Basically, a Chaplain gets an extra Inspire when it isn't even the Command phase.

    Combat Revival: An Apothecary can bring an <Infantry> or <Biker> model back with full wounds, no roll required.
    This is a pretty big reason for Invader ATVs to come in Squadrons. So your Apothecary can bring one back for 1 CP...Or even for free. 'Cause GW. Expect a nerf to Invaders, or to Apothecaries...Or both.

    Relic of the Chapter: Gain another Relic. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hero of the Chapter: Gain another Warlord Trait. You can use it more times based on the points limit.

    Hit-and-Run Warfare: A Biker, Land Speeder or Storm Speeder can Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn.

    Hammer of Wrath: When a Jump Pack unit finishes a Charge move, roll vs. your opponent's Toughness for each model in your unit that makes it to Engagment. Deal Mortal Wounds.

    Skilled Riders: If a Biker, Land Speeder or Storm Speeder unit Advances in your Turn, your opponent has -1 to hit them in their Shooting phase.

    Uncompromising Fire (2): An Infantry unit can perform an [Action] and Shoot, in the same turn. Hooray!

    Steady Advance (2): When an Infantry unit makes a normal move, just kidding, it counts as being stationary.

    Adaptive Strategy (2): Choose a Core unit within 6" of your Warlord. Until your next turn, that unit has any Combat Doctrine it wants. Yes please.

    Suppression Fire: If a Whirlwind hits a unit using a Blast attack, that unit can't Overwatch, can't Set to Defend, and gains Always Strikes Last until your next turn.

    Terror Troops (2): Target Reiver unit gains an Aura: Enemy units within 3" lose Objective Secured, holy ****! Additionally, if the targeted Reiver unit is within 3" of an enemy unit performing an Action, roll 2d6 vs. their Leadership. The Action automatically fails.

    Guerilla Tactics: Put a Phobos unit on the board, into Reserves. Very strong.

    Orbital Bombardment (3): Once per game. If your Warlord is on the board, choose a point on the board. Units within 6" of that point start taking Mortal Wounds, unless you roll a '1' or something dumb.

    Auspex Scan (2): When a unit arrives from Reinforcements, a unit of yours can shoot at it if they show up within 12". Can be fairly limiting. But if your opponent is abusing the **** out of 9e's Reserve rules, you're gonna need the 2 CPs.

    Tremor Shells: Give one of your own Thunderfire Cannons -1 to wound; If it hits a unit that isn't Titanic and doesn't Fly, that unit halves their Move, and has -2 to Advance and Charge until your next turn.

    Shock and Awe: When a Land Speeder Storm (not a Storm Speeder, GW doesn't know other words again) or unit with Shock Grenades shoots, the targeted unit can't fire Overwatch or Set to Defend, and has -1 to hit until your next turn.

    Assault Launchers: When an Assault Launchers Vehicle Charges, the targeted unit can either brace or duck for cover. A Braced unit takes D3 Mortal Wounds. A unit that ducks for cover loses an attack per model (with no minimum?), and can't Overwatch or Set to Defend.

    Melta Bomb: When a Melta Bomb targets a Vehicle in the Fight phase, roll to hit, and deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Grav Pulse: When a model has a Repulsor Field, do one of the following; Fall Back and Shoot in the same turn. Or, when Charged, your opponent has -2 to Charge your unit.

    Hellfire Shells: When an Infantry model shoots a Heavy Bolter, make one to hit roll, and deal D3 Mortal Wounds. Against Monsters, deal 3 Mortal Wounds.
    Monsters bad, Vehicles good. Classic GW.

    Flakk Missile: When an Infantry model with a Missile Launcher targets an Aircraft, make an attack with +1 to hit (i.e; Cancelling out most Aircraft's -1 to hit). Deal 2d3 Mortal Wounds.

    Smokescreen: When a Smokescreeen unit is targeted, your opponent has -1 to hit.


    Spoiler: Warlord Traits
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    Space Marines
    1. Enemy units within 6" have -1 to Leadership, and have -1 to Combat Attrition.
    2. Warlord re-rolls Charges, and when it Charges, gain +1S and +1A.
    3. +1W and Ignore Wounds (6+)
    4. When your Warlord is Engaged with a Character, +1A...Whether you attack the Character or not. However, against Characters, your Warlord also has +1 to hit and wound.
    5. Core Units within 6" improve the AP of their attacks by -1, on a 6 to wound.
    6. Core Units and Characters within 6" have Objective Secured.

    Phobos Warlord Traits
    1. A Phobos unit within 6" that has attacked in the Shooting phase, can Move or Advance. It cannot Charge.
    2. Redeploy up to 3 Phobos units. Including putting them into Reserves. This doesn't cost CPs.
    3. All Phobos units within 6" have +1 to Move, Advance, Fall Back and Charge.
    4. Your Warlord can't be targeted at all by ranged attacks, unless it's the closest model to the attacker.
    5. A Phobos unit within 6" gains +1 to hit on their ranged attacks.
    6. Your Warlord's ranged weapons have +1 Damage - does not include Grenades or Relics.

    Dark Angels: Pick a unit within 6", and instead of whatever Combat Doctrine your army is currently on, the unit has the previous Doctrine until your next turn. This is pretty good.

    White Scars: When your Warlord completes a Charge, roll a 2+, and deal a Mortal Wound. No.

    Space Wolves: +1 Attack and to hit and wound vs. Monsters and Vehicles in the Fight phase. Lame.

    Imperial Fists: If a Core Unit within 6" already has the benefit of (Light? Dense?) Cover, they ignore the AP of AP-1 attacks. So basically you get to ignore Ignore Cover. Not great.

    Crimson Fists: When your Warlord dies, roll a 4+, and stand back up with D3 Wounds. Can not be used with Only in Death Does Duty End, nor trigger an Astartes Banner. But you can use those things the 'second' time your Warlord is destroyed.

    Black Templars: Heroic Intervene 6". Hard pass.

    Blood Angels: Always Strike First. Situational. But not useless.

    Flesh Tearers: Gain +D3 attacks if there are 5+ enemy models within 3".

    Iron Hands: Your Warlord can repair 1 Wound to a Vehicle per turn. If your Warlord is a Techmarine, Blessing of the Omnissiah heals D3+1. ****. If your Warlord is a Techmarine, you should be using a Master of the Forge, and you don't even need to be Iron Hands to do that. This Warlord Trait is dumb.

    Ultramarines: Whenever you spend a CP, roll a 5+, and refund it. Remembering that you can only refund one CP per Round, so this isn't that good.

    Salamanders: Your Warlord has +2 Strength. Strap your Relic Blades on.

    Raven Guard: Once per game, your Warlord is put into Reinforcements, and reappears in your next turn, following the rules for Reinforcements for that turn.

    Deathwatch: Select a Core Unit within 6", that unit gains rr1 to wound vs. another Battlefield Role.


    Spoiler: Relics
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    Placeholder 'til Mathhammer


    Spoiler: Powers
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    Librariaus Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". Target unit re-rolls Advance and Charge rolls, and gains Always Strikes First.
    2. WC6, 12". Target Core Unit or Character gains +1S, T and A.
    3. WC7, Self, 6". All units - friendly and enemy - within range lose their Invulnerable saves, and enemy Psykers within range halve their Psychic tests.
    4. WC6, 18". Roll off vs. target unit's Leadership. Deal Mortal Wounds. Decent targeted attack against enemy Characters.
    5. WC6, 18". Draw a line between any part of the Psyker's base, and any part of the model's base (OR HULL). Every enemy unit under the line takes a Mortal Wound. It's interesting that you can manage to not hit your own units with the 'line'.
    6. WC6, 6". Friendly units within range have a 5+ Invulnerable. Very good.

    Obscuration Discipline
    1. WC6, 18". Target unit can't be targeted with ranged attacks, unless it's the closest unit to the attacker. Very good.
    2. WC6, 18". Target unit gains rr1 to hit with shooting attacks, and ignores cover.
    3. WC6, 18". Deal a Mortal Wound to an enemy model. If the model is a Character, roll 3d6 vs. their Leadership, gain a CP.
    4. WC6, 18". Target unit has -1 Leadership, and has -1 to hit.
    5. WC7, 18". Target unit that can't Fly, takes a Mortal Wound, and halves their Move value, and takes -2 to Advance and Charge.
    6. WC5, 6". Target Phobos unit can't Shoot or Fight this turn...Umm...But can make a normal Move, or auto-Advance +6". Situational.

    Litanies of Battle
    0. 6". Core units and Characters can re-roll to hit in the Fight phase.
    1. 6". Core units and Characters gain Ignore Mortal Wounds (5+).
    2. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to wound on Shooting attacks vs. the closest eligible target.
    3. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to wound in the Fight phase.
    4. Self. The Priest gains +1S and A, and Melee weapons (including Relics) gain +1 Damage.
    5. 6". Target Core unit or Character gains +1 to hit in the Shooting phase.
    6. 6". Core units and Characters gain +2 to Charge which doesn't stack with any other bonuses to Charge. Additionally, units can Pile-In and Consolidate 6". Which is real good, if that's what you're going for.


    Spoiler: Secondary Objectives
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    If your army contains only Adeptus Astartes models, Agents of the Imperium, and Unaligned models, and your Warlord is an Astartes, you may choose one of the following, in place of any other Secondary Objective.

    Codex Warfare (Purge):
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Heavy or Grenade weapon, whilst Devastator Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Rapid Fire or Assault weapon, whilst Tactical Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    - Gain a VP every time an Astartes unit destroys an enemy unit with a Pistol or Melee weapon, whilst Assault Doctrine is active for your army. (max. 5)
    This Secondary is...Not great. Since it encourages you to not destroy your opponent's models as fast as you can on Turn 1 with all your Heavy weapons because you can only destroy 5 units before you run out of points. Second, it slows down everything else, too, because now you're disincentivised to take out units with small arms fire on Turn 1. Just, no. Furthermore, this Secondary is problematic for Chapters who want to be in Melee on Turn 1 (e.g; White Scars) or Turn 2 (e.g; Black Templars), because you're doing all your Melee damage before Assault Doctrine is even up. Another problem with this Objective is that it competes with other Purge Objectives, which are a lot easier, and allow your Assassins that you run (Agents of the Imperium) to actually do their job and take out your opponent's Characters.
    (inb4; "This Objective is good because it provides disincentives to dunking on Turn 1." Incorrect. People just wont take this Objective in the first place.)

    Shock Tactics (Battlefield Supremacy): At the end of the round, gain 3 VPs if you took an Objective from your opponent. This is doable. But also it's harder to do if you go first, because the Objective is scored at the end of the round, rather than Turn, which the other Supremacy Objectives, do. If you're taking Objectives from your opponent, you may as well be scoring Linebreaker, instead, because Linebreaker scores at the end of your turn, and your opponent can't stop you. But doesn't Shock Tactics stack with going for Primary Objectives, too? Primary Objectives are equally as problematic, because your opponent can stop you, and now they're getting a two-fer, and they're more incentivised to shoot your units off of Objectives. Finally, if you're stealing Objectives off of your opponents, you really should be using the Domination Objective, instead.
    The only way this Secondary is viable, is if you go Second. However, choosing your Secondaries happens long before you determine who goes first, Hell, you haven't even picked your DZ sides yet.

    Oaths of Moment (No Mercy, No Respite):
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if an Astartes unit destroyed a Character, Vehicle or Monster. Once again, this encourages slower destruction, because you have to 'save' your opponents models for later turns. Additionally, your Assassins that you may or may not have brought to the table, can't contribute.
    - Gain a VP at the end of a Round if none of your Astartes units failed a Morale test, or Fell Back. Astartes don't fail Morale tests, they just die. So that's easy. However, the second part is a bit harder to reconcile, especially for Chapters that love Falling Back (e.g; White Scars, Raven Guard), and removes very good tactical options from your arsenal (e.g; Land Speeder Hit & Runs).
    - Gain 2 VPs at the end of a Round if one of your Astartes units is wholly within 6" of the middle of the battlefield. Should be doable. Especially if you've accidentally gone second.

    This is arguably the 'best' Astartes Objective, and you can only choose one, so choose this one. Just as importantly, this is a No Mercy, No Respite Objective, which has very little competition. Alternatively, pick an [Action] Objective to do and burn 2CPs every turn to still shoot with the extremely strong Stratagem since it actively contributes to winning the game.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quick thoughts on the state of firstborn marines

    Spoiler
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    HQs: +1 A, +1 W, and a wargear upgrade is probably worth more than 5 points. Firstborn do still have more consistent access to a wider array of wargear, including jump packs. Overall, I think firstborn HQs may still have a place, but as a wider array of model choices for Primaris HQs appears, they're kind of slipping

    Troops: Comparing 18 point Tactical Marines to 20 point intercessors is... a bad joke. Sure, special weapons exist, but Astartes grenade launchers are now just an additional weapon, so the gap is much narrower. Assault Intercessors also far outshine footslogging Assault Squads and Blood Claws (And actually have obsec, unlike Assault squads).

    Elites: Sternguard, Company Veterans, and Vanguard are actually superior to primaris marines in base statline, and can actually do things their newer bretheren can't (Spam special weapons/combi-weapons, or have jump packs and tons of power swords/axes). Terminators have reclaimed their position as the heaviest of Marine's heavy infantry.

    Fast Attack: Assault Squads are completely overshadowed by Assault Intercessors and Vanguard, but for 120 points, a squad of 3 firstborn bikers can have 2 plasmaguns/grav-guns and a combi-weapon that they can fire at the same time as their twin boltguns. That's fifteen points cheaper than a squad of outriders. Such a unit won't make 31 S4 Ap -1 attacks the turn it charges (I think GW forgot shock assault existed when they made these guys), but it does make for an interesting CORE mobile fire platform.

    Heavy Support: Devastators should leave plasma and melta duty to their little brothers (and probably heavy bolters too, considering heavy intercessors will be out in two or three weeks), but they still have their grav cannons. The ability to hide a missile launcher in there for AA duty is also handy.


    Conclusion: For non-characters, it mostly comes down to, "Has GW created a primaris replacement for the firstborn unit?" Veterans don't really have a counterpart yet (Veteran Intercessors are a joke), and Cawl hasn't gotten around to creating a dedicated primaris heavy unit for each heavy weapon, so Devastators still have a place for now. The only other standout are bike squads, which can be used as a budget special weapons team now (Were they always able to take 2 special weapons in a minimum strength squad?)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Conclusion: For non-characters, it mostly comes down to, "Has GW created a primaris replacement for the firstborn unit?" Veterans don't really have a counterpart yet (Veteran Intercessors are a joke), and Cawl hasn't gotten around to creating a dedicated primaris heavy unit for each heavy weapon, so Devastators still have a place for now. The only other standout are bike squads, which can be used as a budget special weapons team now (Were they always able to take 2 special weapons in a minimum strength squad?)
    I would actually say Terminators have done more than just keep their niche, I'd say that extra wound has actually catapulted them from a "Niche but workable unit" into "Something everyone should at least consider using"

    I mean, they are pretty tough to shift and since durability is (currently) a huge part of the game, that means that they are pretty good.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I would actually say Terminators have done more than just keep their niche, I'd say that extra wound has actually catapulted them from a "Niche but workable unit" into "Something everyone should at least consider using"

    I mean, they are pretty tough to shift and since durability is (currently) a huge part of the game, that means that they are pretty good.
    Reclaimed their niche (when they previously had more competition from Gravis Units for the position of Heaviest infantry) might be a better way to put it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Reclaimed their niche (when they previously had more competition from Gravis Units for the position of Heaviest infantry) might be a better way to put it.
    That's probably fair. It also helps that their niche is more important than before
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Overall, I think firstborn HQs may still have a place...
    Captain on Bike, Captain/Chaplain with Jump Pack.
    Lieutenants and Techmarines 'cause they're cheap.
    That's it.
    Everything else should be Primaris.

    That being said, Captains no longer give themselves rr1s to hit, meaning that Power Fists and Thunder Hammers are much less viable in the first place.

    Troops
    Firstborn Troops are ****.

    Elites: Sternguard, Company Veterans, and Vanguard are actually superior to primaris marines in base statline
    Leadership doesn't mean anything.
    Sternguard lost the +1 to wound Stratagem, making them worse than Intercessors.
    Vanguard...Maybe. It matters a lot what Chapter you're playing. If your Chapter doesn't explicitly give a bonus to Melee units, Bladeguard are better.

    and can actually do things their newer bretheren can't (Spam special weapons/combi-weapons
    Primaris Marines have entire units of Special weapons, try again.

    or have jump packs and tons of power swords/axes).
    Bladeguard are one of the strongest units in the Codex. They just don't have Jump Packs. Except that doesn't matter if you play Raven Guard or White Scars. And if you're not going to be in Melee on Turn 1 anyway, you may as well put them in Reserves for the same effect.

    Terminators have reclaimed their position as the heaviest of Marine's heavy infantry.
    Heavy Intercessors disagree.
    Also, the soft-nerfing of Centurions to not be a Core unit whilst almost everything else, is. Is a good joke.

    Fast Attack
    Everything except Land Speeders have basically been overshadowed.

    Heavy Support: Devastators [with] grav cannons. The ability to hide a missile launcher in there for AA duty is also handy.
    The only other standout are bike squads...
    I disagree.
    The only standouts are units that can take Melta Bombs, and Devastators.
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    Guide to Space Marines (2020)
    Part II - Core Units and Characters

    Part I - ADEPTUS ASTARTES special rules and Detachment abilities.

    Spoiler: HQ
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    Captains
    Aura 6"; CORE units gain re-roll 1s to hit.
    4+ Invulnerable save.

    Primaris Captain: Ranged weapons aren't good, and has no way to get into Melee. Not good. However, the Relic Shield giving Ignore Mortal Wounds (4+) is a fairly solid pick if you have a lot of opponents who use Psykers to deal targeted Mortal Wounds to your Characters.
    DARK ANGELS can pick up a Special Issue Bolt Carbine, which allows them to take Primarch's Wrath, which means of all the Chapters, Dark Angels have the most useful one.

    Captain with Master-Crafted Heavy Bolt Rifle: T5, 7 Wounds, carries a !Heavy Bolter. There's your solid ranged-Captain option. Being a ranged Character means having the potential to be targeted. The extra Toughness and Wound, absolutely matters.

    Captain in Phobos Armour: Concealed Positions. Can target Characters with a 30", S4, AP-2, 3D weapon. Good. But you're better off with an actual Assassin. Or both. The Phobos Captain's real strength lies in his Omni-Scrambler, which means Reinforcements can't set up within 12" of him. This is really strong when it prevents your opponent's 9" bonus Charges out of Reinforcements. However, a unit of Infiltrators does the same thing with Objective Secured.

    Captain in Gravis Armour: Take anything else.

    Captain in Terminator Armour: Is it worth losing a Wound and Attack, to gain Teleport Strike? ...Yes. Because your Captain can actually make it into Melee now. Your opponent can target Characters? Who cares!? You're not even on the board to be targeted until you're already 9" away from your opponent's models. Since you're a Terminator, you have access to a Chainfist which is a very good non-Relic weapon, freeing up your Relic weapons for other models so you can have multiple good models in your list.

    Captain: Ranged; Storm Bolter or Combi-Grav, or, if you haven't used your Relic yet; The Primarch's Wrath. Taking a Jump Pack gives you a 12" Move, FLY and Death From Above - a CP-free to get into Reinforcements. However, Jump Packs are pretty expensive and now your weapon options are more limited, unless you want to blow it out, which you don't. Especially because your Captain wants to be in Melee, too. Especially because your Captain wants to take a Storm Shield, too:
    [INDENT]- Teeth of Terra is a very strong weapon, and free. Power Fist or Thunder Hammers are good, albeit expensive. The Burning Blade is the best weapon in the book and a Captain is arguably the best model in the Codex to wield it.
    - DEATHWATCH Captains can take a Xenophase Blade. Which really isn't worth it unless you know your meta is full of Harlequins...It probably is.

    Captain on Bike: More Wounds and more Attacks, and a 'free' Storm Bolter which causes additional Combi-Weapons to cost more because your model would have a ****-ton of ranged attacks. Everything about the previous Captain remains the same. But a Bike-Captain is cheaper because they can't climb stairs...Not that they really need to because nobody climbs stairs anymore 'cause you can't put Objectives in the top levels of Ruins anymore.

    Lieutenants
    Aura 6"; CORE units re-roll 1s to wound.
    You may take two LIEUTENANTS per Role slot. But, additionally, each Astartes Detachment may only ever include a max. of two Lieutenants.

    Primaris Lieutenant: Same deal as the Primaris Captain. But now you have less Attacks.
    - DARK ANGELS can take a Plasma Pistol...It's a Pistol.
    - SPACE WOLVES can take a Special Issue Bolt Carbine and Master-Crafted Power Axe. This makes them eligible for Primarch's Wrath. Which is good.

    Lieutenant in Reiver Armour: Reivers do exactly the same job and don't take one of your LIEUTENANT slots... And Reivers are terrible.

    Lieutenant: With less attacks than a Captain, Teeth of Terra becomes a lot better, as do Lightning Claws. A pair of Lightning Claws will net you 5 Attacks that re-roll to wound, with AP-2... With 1 Damage. Teeth of Terra, is really strong, and free. The same issue as with all Melee models is how do you get there...Well, Jump Pack. Unlike a Captain, you can't take a Bike. The problem with ranged Lieutenants - and ranged Characters in general - is that unlike Melee models which can hide behind Obscuring terrain and not lose anything, being a ranged Characters mean you need LoS, and that means your opponent more than likely has LoS to you. If you have a ranged Lieutenant, the extra Wound that being Primaris gives is actually important. Kind of.

    Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Somehow, worse than a Lieutenant in Reiver Armour.

    Librarians
    PSYKER. Knows Smite and two other Powers; Manifests twice; Denies once.
    These models gain +1 to Deny tests if the enemy Psyker is within 12".

    Primaris Librarian: Pay a lot of points to do exactly what other Librarians do. Can't take Force Axes.

    Librarian: One less Wound that the Primaris Librarian, but can take any wargear they want - including Force Axes. Additionally, a Librarian can take a Jump Pack, which allows you to keep up with your other Characters, and use the Librarius Discipline to make powerful combos. That being said...

    Librarian in Phobos Armour: Concealed Positions is extremely strong on a Character that wields a Force weapon. Throw in the extremely powerful Obscuration Discipline and you have a really powerful model that's in Melee, starting from Turn 1. Cheaper than a Librarian with a Jump Pack, and has an extra Wound and Attack, and while a Phobos Librarian can combo with another unit (preferably one with Concealed Positions), it's not necessary for the Librarian's job. Especially when you know that your Psychic Hood is in range almost immediately.

    Libararian in Terminator Armour: Teleport Strike is slower that Concealed Positions. The end. However, it depends on what Discipline you want, and also you can take a Force Axe.

    Chaplains
    PRIEST. 4+ Invulnerable save.
    Aura 6"; CORE units use the Chaplain's Leadership 9.
    Knows Litany of Hate and another Litany. Command Phase; Roll a 3+ and Recite/Inspire.

    Primaris Chaplain: Powerful Melee Character that has no way to get there...Impulsor?

    Primaris Chaplain on Bike: Same as a Captain on Bike, but with an extra Wound, and Twin Bolt Rifles is better than a Twin Boltgun. In addition, Chaplains have access to the extremely powerful Benediction of Fury, which is the best Relic in the Codex, and, don't forget about Mantra of Strength and/or Litany of Hate, where on a 3+, your Chaplain just becomes really good until your next turn. Remember that aMASTER OF SANCTITY can Recite twice for +25 Points, and do Commanding Oratory for 2 CPs. Or do all of those things, to Recite three times in a turn, adding Canticle of Hate for +2 to Charge rolls. Very strong model. Amazing. Good job. 11/10.

    Chaplain in Terminator Armour: As with everything else, Teleport Strike makes Charges available, guaranteed, on Turn 2. However, because Reinforcements arrive after the Movement phase, you've missed your Command phase, which means you've lost the ability to Inspire because you weren't on the board. Typically, a Chaplain in Terminator is going to burn 2 CPs for Commanding Oratory. Is it worth +25 Points for MASTER OF SANCTITY? ...Not really. Since the benefit of MoS is the ability to Recite twice in the Command phase, and you aren't doing that. Secondly, Wise Orator takes your Warlord Trait, and is that really worth saving a single CP, probably only once, during the game?

    Chaplain: Good for gunlines. Recitation of Focus and +1 to hit, and Lieutenants giving re-roll 1s to wound, which means you can more or less cut Captains out of your gunline entirely, unless they're CHAPTER MASTERS, which are a different thing. A Chaplain can also take a Jump Pack and combo-up with other fast-moving units. Alternatively, similar to a Chaplain in Terminator, a Chaplain can ride in a Drop Pod, and arrive from Reinforcements on Turn 1, and drop Commanding Oratory for 2CPs to give everyone around him extra Charges. Very strong for Black Templars armies.

    Techmarines
    Heal Vehicles for D3 Wounds per turn; Give one Vehicle, +1 to hit per turn.

    Primaris Techmarine: Forge Bolter is nice. Other than having a super-Auto Bolt Rifle, it doesn't do what any other Techmarine, couldn't.

    Techmarine: Cheaper than the above and does the exact same job. But now with access to a Boltgun, can use Primarch's Wrath with BS2+, which is way better than a Forge Bolter. But does use your Relic slot.
    SPACE WOLVES may replace their wargear with stupidly expensive wargear that they probably wont ever use. Don't do it!


    Spoiler: Troops
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    Intercessor Squad: The standard Space Marine; T4, 3+ Save with 2 Wounds, at a nice-and-even 20 Points. Their standard ranged weapon comes stock at AP-1, to make every model they attack, slightly worse, and at 30" range with Bolter Discipline, Intercessors happen to be one of the better Troops in the game. Their options, are also incredibly good; Auto Bolt Rifles lose the AP, but gain Assault 3, which is good when you have a few guys in your meta who play Orks out of spite. Alternatively, Intercessors can be equipped with an AP-2, 2D (again, Bolt) weapon, that's really strong under any Chapter that improves Heavy and Bolt weapons (e.g; Iron Hands, Imperial Fists).
    Sergeant. Always take a Chainsword, there's literally no reason not to. If you're desperate to get your Intercessors into Melee, or you believe that your meta is melee-heavy, always bring a Power Fist where it's available.
    Rapid Fire (2 CPs). Remember that Rapid Fire doesn't refer to Rapid Fire weapons (like how Assault Doctrine doesn't refer to Assault weapons). It refers to the INTERCESSOR unit. Your Stalkers are shooting twice, and your Assault 3 Auto Bolt Rifles, are now Assault 6, and of course your Astartes Grenade Launcher - or Hand Flamer - can shoot twice. An Astartes list can always use a unit of Intercessors, just for access to this Stratagem.

    Assault Intercessors: Costing 1 Point less than regular Intercessors, having 3 (base) Attacks each makes them better at Melee than almost every other Troops unit in the game, if Troop-on-Troop violence is your thing, then yeah. Good, job. However, being that this is the Space Marine Codex, if you want Melee units, you really, really should be looking elsewhere unless you're White Scars or Raven Guard. Alternatively, if you have bonuses to Charge (e.g; Black Templars), it's always worth remembering that you can place Assault Intercessors into Reserves and have them Outflank.
    Sergeant. The only upgrade is to a Power Fist. Same as the regular Intercessors before them.
    Honour the Chapter (2 CPs). Your only unit in the book that can Fight twice. If this is your plan, please make sure that you brought a Power Fist.

    Heavy Intercessors: INTERCESSORS means that they can Rapid Fire, too. Which means you don't even need a unit of regular Intercessors because T5 and 3 Wounds in the Troops slot is Just Better, especially since D2 weapons no longer destroy your models. S5, AP-1 in the Troops slot is incredibly strong, especially since you're Space Marines, and AP-1 turns into AP-2 for no real reason. Multi-Damage weapons, as standard, in the Troops slot is exceptional. All of those things together, at only 28 Points each, they're just one of the best units in the Codex. The only thing they lack, is an Invulnerable save (See; a Librarian). Heavy Intercessors can also pick up a Heavy Bolter, giving them access to Hellfire Shells, which is really strong, when required. It will always be worth having at least one model in your army that can pop Hellfire Shells, and here's a really good unit! Ability to Rapid Fire is just really, really dumb.

    Infiltrators: SMOKESCREEN, Concealed Positions. Okay. This unit isn't bad. But it is...Weak. This unit has a worse gun than Intercessors-with-Auto Bolt Rifles, and Auto Bolt Rifles aren't even that good. What you're really looking at, with this unit, is the same reason you look at a Phobos Captain. Concealed Positions + Omni-Scrambler is a potent combination that quite potentially has the ability to shaft your opponent pretty hard. Since, while the Phobos Captain is only a single model, a 5-man Infiltrator squad can have a not-insignificant footprint, where that 12" no-enemy Reinforcements bubble can actually be quite large and may help protect a lot of your units. However, at 124 Points minimum, you have to be aware that that's what you're paying for. Since they're no better than any other Primaris Marine, and, as mentioned, their guns are simply weaksauce, even with the free wounds, because AP- just isn't good, doubly so when the attack only does 1 Damage.

    Incursors: SMOKESCREEN, Concealed Positions. Ignores Cover, ignore (negative) modifiers to hit with their ranged attacks. At 21 Points, compared to an Assault Intercessor's 19, Incursors lose the +1A from Astartes Chainswords - but they keep the AP-1. In return, they get to deploy using Concealed Positions and get Engaged on Turn 1, popping Gene-Wrought Might if necessary. A fairly solid unit, if that's what you're into (e.g; Blood Angels, Space Wolves). With the right <CHAPTER>, these guys are amazing. In the wrong Chapter, they're just...Pretty good.

    Tactical Squad: MELTA BOMBS, for reasons? "Just pay the 2 Points for Intercessors." Joking...Also not joking. Same statline as Intercessors, but their guns aren't as good and you can't use powerful Stratagems on them. So what's the point? Generally speaking, in a Tactical Squad, there are only two models that matter; The guy with the Heavy or Special Weapon (28 Points...Where have I seen that number?), and the Sergeant, carrying a Combi-Weapon - also 28 Points. What are the other three models doing? Tactical Squads just aren't playable. Tactical Squads are, however, what you can run in your meta if you're feeling...Charitable. Since, at the end of the day, they are Space Marines, and good. They just can't use the tools that other Troops can, that make them very good:
    • (Assault Intercessors) Can't Fight twice,
    • (Intercessors, Heavy Intercessors) Can't Shoot twice,
    • (Primaris) Can't ignore 3s to wound,
    • (Heavy Intercessors) Can't get a 2+ Save,
    • (Phobos) Can't get put into Reinforcements or Redeploy
    • (Smokescreen) Can't pick up -1 to hit.


    Spoiler: Elites
    Show
    Command Squad. In shockingly poor editing, there's a rule spread over multiple entries, and none of those entries are consecutive. Here are those rules, summarised:
    If your Detachment includes a CAPTAIN (any kind, that is), if your Detachment also includes a COMMAND SQUAD (read; Company Veterans) in the same Detachment, the Company Veterans don't have to take a Role slot.
    If your Detachment includes a COMMAND SQUAD (again read; Company Veterans), for each squad, if you also include one or more of the following; Company Champion, Apothecary and/or Company Ancient, you can have any or all of them not take up Role slots.

    Company Champion: Almost literally on par with a Melee-Captain. But unfortunately doesn't have the option for a Jump Pack or Bike, which means walking around on foot, which means that this guy is only reserved for certain Chapters and Drop Pods. Since this guy has no options at all, a Company Champion makes an almost-perfect candidate to wield The Burning Blade, since it's his only option whilst your actual Captain wields something like a Power Fist or Thunder Hammer. Additionally, The Shield Eternal is great on this guy, too. Additionally, this model can Heroically Intervene 6", as long as it's towards a CHARACTER. Additionally, the Champion gains Always Strikes First when engaged with a CHARACTER, whether he targets the Character or not.

    Scout Squad: SMOKESCREEN, Concealed Positions, Outflank. This is the cheapest unit in the Codex. Unfortunately, in the Elites slot, they have a lot of competition, especially because unlike everything else, they only have a single wound each, and thus are almost not even worth putting on the board. Their most useful...Use...is that they can be cheaper facsimiles for better units...That are better.

    Apothecaries
    Heal a model in a friendly INFANTRY or BIKER unit for D3 lost wounds.
    Aura 6"; INFANTRY and BIKER units gain Ignore Wounds (6+).

    Primaris Apothecary: The Primaris version is only 5 extra Points, and comes with an extra Wound and better weapons. If you're playing with Power Level, they're the exact same Power Rating.

    Apothecary: The main reason to use this model over the Primaris one, is for using the COMMAND SQUAD rule for slot-free units. The Astartes Elites section is packed with good units, and it can be hard to fit in an Apothecary unless it doesn't take up a slot.

    Ancients
    Aura 6"; CORE units gain +1 Leadership. Additionally, each time a model from a unit in range is destroyed, roll a 4+; That destroyed model may shoot one of its ranged weapons, or, may make a single melee attack. Obviously, an Ancient of one sort or another, is a must-have in any form of gunline. For Melee? Not so much.

    Company Ancient: A Boltgun gives you access to Primarch's Wrath, which is one way to make your Character more than just an Aura. However, your Relic slot is quite good, and there are many ANCIENT Relics that are really good, and maybe you don't want Primarch's Wrath? Combi-Gravs cost points, though.

    Primaris Ancient: Bolt Rifle. That's it.

    Bladeguard Ancient: Gain Aura 6"; BLADEGUARD units (including himself), +1 Attack. This is great if you're going to be playing a specific Melee Chapter, or running specific Tactics, and spamming Bladeguard units. Otherwise don't bother.

    Ancient in Terminator Armour: It's an Ancient. In Terminator Armour. Is 100 Points worth it? ...Probably not.
    DARK ANGELS, get to take one slot-free with a DEATHWING COMMAND SQUAD. It's the same rule as everyone else. Dark Angels can just do it with Terminators as well - not 'instead of'.

    Veteran Intercessor Squad: +1A and +1Ld. Which has no effect on their guns. Except as VETERAN INTERCESSORS, they can be affected by the 'shoot twice' Stratagem...Except Intercessors in the Troops slot do the exact same thing for less points, and Heavy Intercessors do it way better, because ranged weapons don't scale with the model wielding them, so go with the cheaper and/or better ones. Veteran Intercessors aren't ASSAULT INTERCESSORS so can't use the 'fight twice' Stratagem which actually makes them worse than Assault Intercessors - also in the Troops slot. Maybe you can paint them to represent Veterans? One of the worst implemented units in the Codex.

    Bladeguard Veteran Squad: Very strong unit. For some reason they have three wounds each, when GRAVIS isn't even a Keyword they have. They also come stock with a Storm Shield, and S5, AP-2, 2D Melee weapons, making them straight-up beasts, especially for their extremely cheap 40 Points per model. However, being on foot means you need to play a specific Chapter to make them work, or put them into Reinforcements.

    Company Veterans: (read; Command Squad) At 20 Points each, base, the most economical loadout is Storm Bolter, Storm Shield, done. Unfortunately, in a meta where models with multiple wounds and good armour saves dominate, you're way better off giving all of them Combi-Gravs, instead.
    Bodyguard. If a friendly CHARACTER that has 9 or less Wounds is within 3" of this squad, that Character can not be targeted by ranged attacks. This is not the same as Look Out, Sir, this is a whole different rule that certain weapons (e.g; Sniper Rifles) do not ignore. If you take a unit of Company Veterans, and you put any CHARACTERS near the unit, they are straight up immune to bullets. Fortunately (?), a group of Company Veterans maxes out at 5 models. Which is actually fine, 'cause you're Astartes and why would you want a squad with more than 5 models? However, there is nothing stopping you from running as many Command Squads as you want. You even get one without spending a Role slot with a CAPTAIN in the Detachment. In short, if you've got one of these units, Assassinate and Slay the Warlord become much less viable Secondaries for your opponent, and that means you're winning the game, easier...That does mean you can potentially pick up more Characters, like Company Champion, Apothecary and Company Ancient...Which is exactly what you're supposed to do.

    Vanguard Veterans: MELTA BOMBS. 19 Points, base. Give them JUMP PACK, and kit them out with whatever Melee Weapons and/or Storm Shield as you want. If they don't have Jump Packs, Company Veterans are better.

    Sternguard Veterans: These guys are totally outclassed by Company Veterans until the Bodyguard rule gets nerfed.

    Judiciar: Fantastic melee Character... How does it get into Melee? Use your brain and CPs, or don't use him at all.

    Reiver Squad: SHOCK GRENADES. These guys are not a good Melee unit. These are not a good ranged unit. These guys' job is to get into Melee after you've already done significant damage in the Shooting and Psychic phase, and then force a Morale test at -2. This unit is a Morale debuffer...Which honestly might not even have a place in the meta. Worst implemented unit in the Codex. Buy them if you want, use them to represent Incursors or Infiltrators.

    Aggressor Squad: If hordes are a problem in your meta, these guys are very, very good. However, if hordes are not your problem, and you're more dealing with opponents who are running MSU Infantry (e.g; Space Marines, Custodes, Sororitas, etc.), you're much, much, much better off with Heavy Intercessors, which are the same unit, cheaper, and Troops. Generally, though, these are the only Primaris unit that can Melee worth a damn because they actually have Power Fists. That being said, they're relatively slow to Move, and don't have an Invulnerable, which means getting them into Melee, is likely to mean building your army around them.

    Terminator Assault Squad: As far as Melee units go, these guys are among the best in the book. However, they trade direct, killing power, for Storm Shields, which is fine. The AP-2 on Thunder Hammers isn't great, but if your opponent is running models with 3+ Wounds (e.g; Custodes, Death Guard Terminators), having Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields is really, really good, because models that are T5, with 3+ Wounds, tend to hit back just as hard, and that's where your Storm Shields come in.

    Terminator Squad: Storm Bolters and Power Fists. Come back when Terminators can take Combi-Gravs. Get Storm Bolters from Company Veterans. Get Power Fists from Vanguard Veterans, or just run the Assault Terminators, above. These guys try and do two things at once, and thus, fail at both.

    Relic Terminator Squad: Like regular Terminators, but also worse.

    Centurion Assault Squad. See Non-Core Section.

    Invictor Tactical Warsuit. See Non-Core Section.

    Dreadnoughts
    Reduce incoming Damage by 1 - to a minimum of 1. Very good.

    Dreadnought:
    Venerable Dreadnought: Not only does the Venerable Dreadnought have better WS/BS, it also has Ignore Wounds (6+). There is no reason to take a regular Dreadnought. Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do with them. Twin Lascannon, Missile Launcher...That's it.

    Contemptor Dreadnought: Similar to 'regular' Terminators, these Dreadnoughts try to do too many things and fail at all of them. Kheres-Pattern Assault Cannons only deal single damage, means that any unit or model that carries two Heavy Bolters - or Grav-Cannons! - is already better. The Dreadnought Combat Weapon is no different to any other Dreadnought Weapon, and the Contemptor still lacks the ability to actually get anywhere to use it, since almost all Movement and Deployment Stratagems only affect INFANTRY. On the other hand, it's a Vehicle with a 5+ Invulnerable save, which is really good. Still...It's main weapon only deals single damage, and trading it for a Multi-Melta...Just use something else.

    Ironclad Dreadnought: Use Invictor Tactical Warsuits.

    Redemptor Dreadnoughts: Since a Redemptor doesn't implode itself when it rolls a '1' on its Plasma weapon, take that, and stand next to a CAPTAIN and abuse that CORE Keyword. Unfortuantely, in 9th Ed.'s New-Marine meta, the Easy-to-Build (i.e; Cheap) version of the Redemptor has fallen into utter disuse, since single-Damage weapons are nowhere near as viable as they used to be. Always be wary of including too many Vehicles with 11+ Wounds in your list.


    Spoiler: Fast Attack
    Show
    Assault Squads: MELTA BOMBS...One of the worst units in the Codex. Ignore. (Re)Paint them as Vanguard Veterans if you have to.

    Outriders: Being CORE BIKERS allows them to abuse several abilities in the Codex. But, at the end of the day, even though all of their attacks - ranged and melee - are AP-1, fact is, they're only 1 Damage attacks, and thus, there are better choices you can make with basically the same resilience (T5 lots of wounds).

    Invader ATVs: T5 and 8 Wounds, is ****ing amazing. Especially when Invaders are neither Characters, nor Vehicles - which means that they don't give up additional Secondary VPs when they're destroyed. However, similar to Outriders, their weapon loadout is quite terrible, being locked at 1 Damage, and, whilst Outriders have Twin Bolt Rifles; Invaders have Twin Auto Bolt Rifles, giving up their AP value. Still, with a Multi-Melta, Invaders are surprisingly good.
    Nerf Alert: Since Invaders are BIKERS, rather than VEHICLES, this allows Apothecaries to use Combat Restoratives on Invaders, effect Invaders with the Narthecium Aura, and also use the Combat Revival Stratagem incredibly effectively on Invaders, since they have 8 Wounds each. For a single CP - or 0 CPs, even - you can bring back an 85 Point model with full wounds. It's just as good as Summoning...No wait. It's better. However, this does require that your Invader, actually come in Squadrons of minimum 2 for this to work. If you have a single Invader, and it dies, it's dead, Jim. Additionally, if you have a unit of 2 Invaders, if your opponent destroys one, they get no VPs, since the unit isn't destroyed, since they're not Vehicles, and they don't operate independently. It's entirely possible to play Musical Invaders. Your army can include multiple squadrons of Invaders, and multiple Apothecaries.

    Bike Squads: Generally competing with Shootynators, because a squadron of 3 has access to [Grav-Guns (x2), Combi-Grav], plus the Twin Boltguns on the front of the Bike. At 40 Points each, these guys are very, very, very good. They can annihilate 5-man squads with ease, and with their speed, cap Objectives, too. Very strong unit. However, taking more than a minimum sized unit, is too many Bikers. Since the only reason you want to take them is for the fast Grav-Guns (or Meltaguns) that can get into range very, very easily, and additionally score some of the board control Secondary Objectives.

    Scout Bike Squad: The entire unit can have Astartes Grenade Launchers. It's not much. But when your entire unit of 5 has S6, D3 Damage attacks, the Damage very quickly adds up. But, the problem with that, is that 5 Scout Bikes, are more expensive than 3, regular Bikers. Still, a very important note about this unit is their speed, combined with an Auto-Advance of 6", combined with every wargear option they have (except for the Twin Boltguns, which you replaced with AGLs, right?) are Assault weapons, which means that this unit can output a ton of firepower, whilst still moving very, very quickly anywhere they want on the board. Very good unit. Albeit niche, compared to the above Bikers with proper Special weapons.

    Attack Bikes: Cheap as dirt with T5 and 4 Wounds. Imagine Outriders, but instead, all of them pack Multi-Meltas. Very, very strong contender for best in slot. Especially since unlike Invaders or Land Speeders, Attack Bikes have the CORE Keyword, which allows them to use several abilities that other models, couldn't.

    Suppressors: SMOKESCREEN. Surprisingly effective unit - despite only being T4, 2 Wounds, when everything good has T5, 3 Wounds - as their PHOBOS Keyword, allows them to do certain tricks. With a S7, 2 Damage weapon, Suppressors can punch holes in a lot of light targets allowing you to rack up some early-game Secondary VPs off of your opponent's Light Vehicle spam (e.g; Models with T6 and a lot of wounds). However, a glaring issue is that Bikers with Grav-Guns, and Scout Bikes with Krak Launchers, can do more or less the same job, for less points. Just, without FLY. But, as non-Melee units that can move quickly, terrain isn't a problem so it's fine. Furthermore, Suppressors take -1 to hit when they move, so you've got to be burning 2 CPs a turn for Steady Advance. Not a bad unit. But certainly not a good unit, either.

    Inceptors: ...Back to models with T5 and 3 Wounds. Whilst Inceptors don't get knocked out of the game by the new 2 Damage standard, a major problem with them is that they carry Damage 1 weapons of their own, and upgrading those weapons, turns them into many-shot Plasma weapons, with an even greater chance of killing yourself...Which is a total waste of your T5 and 3 Wounds.

    Storm Speeders. See Non-Core Section.

    Land Speeders. See Non-Core Section.


    Spoiler: Heavy Support
    Show
    Hellblasters: They'd be really, really, really good...If they didn't have to Supercharge to be effective. But, they do.

    Eliminators: Coming only in squads of 3, these guys aren't really a threat unless you take more than one unit of them. They're also really tempting KPs since your opponent would really like to destroy them anyway. With Concealed Positions, these guys can usually be set up in a position to see your opponent's Characters, even if there are LoS-blockers on the board. There are two main ammo types that you will use - even though there are three types:
    • Executioner. +1 to hit, and 'ignore the benefits of cover'. This ammo type is incredibly useful for when your opponent's Characters have abilities that give +2 to their Cover save - very similar to Eliminators' own Camo Cloaks - since now the effective AP of the ammo is AP-3, and on Turn 1, it's AP-4...And you have +1 to hit. Very strong ammo type. Unfortunately, it only deals one damage a pop, so it's usually not worth using in most situations.
    • Mortis Round. AP-2, 2 Damage, deals an addition Mortal Wound on a '6' to wound. Very, strong. Ignoring Look Out, Sir! is pretty good.

    Centurion Devastator Squad: Ignores 'benefits of Cover' as standard, so already pretty good. Can move-and-shoot Heavy weapons without penalties, so, good again. Ultimately, the default loadout is the best loadout, because, you guessed it...Grav-Cannons. The real choice you have to make is Hurricane Bolters or Centurion Missile Launchers. If you've been reading this far, it's not actually a choice. But, maybe it is because that's how your meta just is. For a non-CORE unit that's 85 Points per model, joke's on you, they're still one of the best units in the Codex.

    Eradicator Squad: If this unit wasn't T5 with 3 Wounds, and could shoot twice with 24" anti-tank weapons, they'd be pretty bad. Fortunately, they are all of those things, and are one of the best units in the Codex.

    Devastator Squad: The difference between Primaris Marines and Firstborn, is their weaponry. Fortunately, Devastators brought the pain, so there is no functional difference between Devastators and Hellblasters. So the only thing that changes, is access to weapons; First, if you haven't already got Heavy Intercessors, Devastators can pick up a Heavy Bolter for Hellfire Shells, Devastators can also pick up a Missile Launcher, for Flakk Missile. And, if that wasn't enough, every single one of them can be equipped with a Grav-Cannon, making Primaris Marines a joke, because Grav-weapons are the best weapons in the book, 'cause even if you move, you're still shooting with 4 shots so -1 to hit doesn't even matter. The Armorium Cherub is the first thing you should take when you've got a few points to spend at the end of your list. But, really, you could give them any Heavy weapon (other than Plasma Cannons), and they'd still end up being one of the best damage-dealers in the Codex, because they max out at only 38 Points each. Which means you can take lots of them (i.e; 3x5 Devastators in your army isn't wrong).

    Everything else in the Heavy Support section is not a Core Unit. See Non-Core Section.


    Part III - The rest of your Non-Core units that aren't affected by most of your force multipliers.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    So, I was feeling slightly annoyed that Battlescribe hadn't updated their datafiles to include the new codexes (I mean, it's not a huge deal since this is just fans working on their own time. But still, I wish it was done already), and I realized that GW missed a major opportunity to get people to use their App, since this was probably the second biggest launch window for the army builder they could have had. But nope, it's still nowhere to be found, so battlescribe will inevitably continue to get usage.

    I am getting really tired of game companies promising official apps for their games, then not even delivering the bare minimum of functionality that fan-built apps have.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    So, I was feeling slightly annoyed that Battlescribe hadn't updated their datafiles to include the new codexes (I mean, it's not a huge deal since this is just fans working on their own time. But still, I wish it was done already), and I realized that GW missed a major opportunity to get people to use their App, since this was probably the second biggest launch window for the army builder they could have had. But nope, it's still nowhere to be found, so battlescribe will inevitably continue to get usage.

    I am getting really tired of game companies promising official apps for their games, then not even delivering the bare minimum of functionality that fan-built apps have.
    So those codes in the codex for that apps don't even work?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    So those codes in the codex for that apps don't even work?
    They work, but the army builder still isn't live. So its just a somewhat clunky reference program for now.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    I am happy that Heavy Intercessors cost 28 Points and don't break the entire Codex, and don't replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons.
    That being said, something probably should replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons, that, or give Grav-Cannons a hard nerf.
    No idea what the solution is.
    Maybe GW should just pull the trigger and get rid of Firstborn units that don't have the Veteran tag?
    Because non-Veteran Firstborn no longer make sense in the current fluff.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I am happy that Heavy Intercessors cost 28 Points and don't break the entire Codex, and don't replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons.
    That being said, something probably should replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons, that, or give Grav-Cannons a hard nerf.
    No idea what the solution is.
    Maybe GW should just pull the trigger and get rid of Firstborn units that don't have the Veteran tag?
    Because non-Veteran Firstborn no longer make sense in the current fluff.

    Posted from phone.
    Can they use the new double tap strat? That'd be quite something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Can they use the new double tap strat? That'd be quite something.
    The Stratagem can only affect Intercessor Squads and Veteran Intercessors.
    Not Heavy Intercessors.
    So all good.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I am happy that Heavy Intercessors cost 28 Points and don't break the entire Codex, and don't replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons.
    That being said, something probably should replace Devastators-with-Grav-Cannons, that, or give Grav-Cannons a hard nerf.
    No idea what the solution is.
    Maybe GW should just pull the trigger and get rid of Firstborn units that don't have the Veteran tag?
    Because non-Veteran Firstborn no longer make sense in the current fluff.

    Posted from phone.
    I'm opposed to that on behalf of all those Space Marine players who stubbornly refuse to buy Primaris Marines. Or at least, have a bunch of Firstborn units that they just like and refuse to switch off of. And of course, there is the ever present group of people who just don't have the money to update the reason.

    Though actually, I kinda do like the idea, because than I imagine most Firstborn units would just be considered 'count as' their Primaris equivalent.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    Which is probably the big reason they don't. Why give people an excuse to just proxy everything?
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

    GW has also paid nods to the idea of legacy eras; The chapter command rules are cited as being usable to represent previous chapter masters/head librarians/masters of sanctity/masters of the forge if your chosen chapter has a named character who fills that role. Such characters are necessarily firstborn (although the rules don't quite reflect that).

    At the end of the day, though, I suspect GW will support fjrstborn loyalists as long as they feel its profitable to do so, and not a minute longer.
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