Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XLI: Secondary Opinions

[DaedalusMkV]

Hmm. Points updates. All of my armies are considered very low-tier. Let's see how the buffs come.

Grey Knights... Characters get more expensive. Dreadknights get more expensive. Nothing gets cheaper. Nice. I guess the change to Abhor the Witch makes it slightly less likely the opponent gets 15 points off of it? Not much, though. Lose two Characters and four units and you're still pretty much maxed out. Pure nerfs. Good start.

Chaos Marines: Tiny nerf to Lord Discordant. Thunder Hammer reduced to a reasonable cost for its new stat line. Tiny buff to melee Helbrutes. Tiny nerf to Defilers. Huge buff to Raptors (okay, 4 Points per model, but relatively speaking that's huge). The same for Warp Talons (which were completely unplayable at the previous points cost, and I'm not convinced they aren't still). And that's it. Dust off your Raptors (World Eaters and Red Corsairs Raptors in particular looking kind of tasty), but otherwise nothing.

T'au. The worst army in the game, by a substantial margin. This should be good. Nerfs to Tau Commanders. Nerfs to Tactical Turrets. Massive nerf to Drone Squadrons, which have doubled in price. They are now unplayable. Drones taken as part of units are the same price. Use those instead, I guess? Giving up free secondary points on Grind them Down isn't a big deal. Nobody has trouble maxing secondaries against Tau. Hefty nerf to Sniper Drones. I'm... Waiting for this to get better?

Okay. Buffs. Devilfish get a small decrease of 8 points base, and an additional 10 if you were using Smart Missiles. Not too bad. Crisis Suits down 5 points (small, but welcome), tiny reduction for Crisis Bodyguards, shave about 10 points off of a Ghostkeel. Stormsurge is down about 30 points as well, but it's still a Titanic Lord of War that isn't really worth the points it gives the opponent or the CP cost. Broadsides go down between 15 and 30 points depending on loadout, and Hammerheads drop by 15-20. And that's it. Hammerheads, Broadsides and Stormsurges were all unplayable, and only Broadsides really got enough of a reduction relative to price to maybe reconsider that. Crisis Suits were already half of what was barely keeping the faction afloat, and they did get just a bit better. Overall, the worst army in the game... Didn't really improve much. Maybe even got worse, since the Drone Squadron nerfs are actually a huge deal that cripples a lot of what Tau could actually do to compete. Thanks GW. Much appreciated.

[Voidhawk]

Huh, let me see what the new cost is...

Oh, it’s 10 points a piece. You know, the same cast as wyches.

Reaver jetbikes are now the same cost as wyches.

I want whatever GWs writers are smoking, because it seems they’re on the good ****.

Honestly, I feel like the wych and wrack costs are flipped, or at the very least they should both be the cheaper price.

Where are you looking at these new points changes? EDIT: Found them, I'm blind.

The Reavers sounds like a missprint to me. In the Power Level update document they're 7 power for 6, which converts to about 20-odd pts each.

And Hellions are at 17pts, which is just stupidly overpriced. So maybe they got the two of them the wrong way round?

[Renegade Paladin]

Non-variable Guard infantry units went up across the board to what works out to a fractional amount of points per model. Amusingly, Special Weapons Squads are now marginally more points per model than Command Squads and Veterans, however their mandatory special weapons now cost 3 points each. Russes uniformly went down 5 points, with the chassis going up 10 but all the primary turret weapons going down 15 (to include making the ones that previously cost 15 cost nothing). Hellhounds dropped by 10.

[Rizhail]

Where are you looking at these new points changes? EDIT: Found them, I'm blind.

The Reavers sounds like a missprint to me. In the Power Level update document they're 7 power for 6, which converts to about 20-odd pts each.

And Hellions are at 17pts, which is just stupidly overpriced. So maybe they got the two of them the wrong way round?

I get the feeling that's what happened. 10 point hellions might actually be useful and 17 point reavers is about what I would expect them to cost.

[Cheesegear]

I find it interesting that there were changes to the Tournament Pack that weren't changed in the Core Rules.

While We Stand, We Fight: You can now Combat Squad Terminators and your opponent has to destroy both units to deny you the VPs. I still don't like this Objective, since it paints a direct target on your units, and while it doesn't give your opponent VPs, what it actually does is deny you VPs. This is a weird Objective, since it doesn't cause you to win the game. It causes you to lose games. Still a very bad Objective. There are practical applications to the rules change. But it's still a bad Objective.

Grind It Down: Changing to 1/2/3 for <10/11/20+ Wounds means that Carnifex and Land Speeder spam are incredibly back on the menu. It massively increases the effectiveness of Mek Gun spam. This is arguably a Very Bad change, because the main downside to spamming Light Vehicles and Monsters is that they handed your opponent a free Objective. That is no longer the case, and Light Vehicle spam - even 10+ of them - wont help your opponent win the game. I feel like Tyranid players were crying out for this change...Unfortunately one of the consequences of this change for a single Faction, was that Space Marines got a buff out of it on some units that were already fairly good in the first place.
*Checks if Land Speeders and Carnifexes got nerfed to compensate...Nope*

Abhor the Witch: Playing Thousand Sons and Grey Knights is no longer as punishing as it was before. You're still on the bottom of the meta though - and T'au don't even have Psykers, they just suck regularly.

Space Marines
GW realised that Watch Masters don't have Guardian Spears. (I know I e-mailed that to them, among other things)
Inceptors were nerfed for IMO literally no reason. Maybe they meant Suppressors?

Blood Angels
Spamming Death Company to spam Forlorn Fury doesn't work anymore.
Death Company Intercessors suck even more now.
Sanguinor was nerfed to not able to Heroic Intervention-from-Reinforcements in the first round (fair enough, really).

[Forum Explorer]

I find it interesting that there were changes to the Tournament Pack that weren't changed in the Core Rules.

While We Stand, We Fight: You can now Combat Squad Terminators and your opponent has to destroy both units to deny you the VPs. I still don't like this Objective, since it paints a direct target on your units, and while it doesn't give your opponent VPs, what it actually does is deny you VPs. This is a weird Objective, since it doesn't cause you to win the game. It causes you to lose games. Still a very bad Objective. There are practical applications to the rules change. But it's still a bad Objective.

Grind It Down: Changing to 1/2/3 for <10/11/20+ Wounds means that Carnifex and Land Speeder spam are incredibly back on the menu. It massively increases the effectiveness of Mek Gun spam. This is arguably a Very Bad change, because the main downside to spamming Light Vehicles and Monsters is that they handed your opponent a free Objective. That is no longer the case, and Light Vehicle spam - even 10+ of them - wont help your opponent win the game. I feel like Tyranid players were crying out for this change...Unfortunately one of the consequences of this change for a single Faction, was that Space Marines got a buff out of it on some units that were already fairly good in the first place.
*Checks if Land Speeders and Carnifexes got nerfed to compensate...Nope*

Abhor the Witch: Playing Thousand Sons and Grey Knights is no longer as punishing as it was before. You're still on the bottom of the meta though - and T'au don't even have Psykers, they just suck regularly.

Space Marines
GW realised that Watch Masters don't have Guardian Spears. (I know I e-mailed that to them, among other things)
Inceptors were nerfed for IMO literally no reason. Maybe they meant Suppressors?

Blood Angels
Spamming Death Company to spam Forlorn Fury doesn't work anymore.
Death Company Intercessors suck even more now.
Sanguinor was nerfed to not able to Heroic Intervention-from-Reinforcements in the first round (fair enough, really).

While we stand we fight: This used to be quite a powerful pick for Space Marines, as it went by most expensive model. So long as you didn't run tanks, that meant your characters often were the pick. Put Bodyguard units near them, slap them in Terminator armor with a Storm Shield and this could be a pretty reliable 15 VP for certain Space Marine builds. And since you pick your secondaries after you see your opponents list, you just didn't pick it if they had too much character hunting for you to handle.

Grind it Down: This is massive. Land Speeders got a buff? Sure, whatever. Space Marines might actually run those now. But for armies like Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard who live and die by their vehicles, they just went from giving up 15 VP every game to more like 8 VP. It's a huge buff to them and for armies that might run a couple of tanks but not too many. And as you mention, Carnifex spam. In fact I'd say most armies benefited from this buff. Space Marines less so because they already have such powerful infantry choices and never needed their vehicles.

[Cheesegear]

Space Marines less so because they already have such powerful infantry choices and never needed their vehicles.

...The thing is, Land Speeders are among one of the best units in the book. The reason nobody took them was because of that Objective. That Objective is no longer an excuse not to run Land Speeders and Stormtalons anymore. The same thing is said for Orks, who spam the **** out of Mek Guns anyway. Orks giving away 15 'free' VPs every game off of Bring It Down is no longer a factor. The best unit in the Orks' book, just got better.

Orks and Space Marines are already in the top echelon of the meta. Anything that buffs Space Marines (or Orks) is not needed in the game right now.

The win conditions do not need altering - not really. What needs altering is Factions and Units - but that's hard.

[Forum Explorer]

...The thing is, Land Speeders are among one of the best units in the book. The reason nobody took them was because of that Objective. That Objective is no longer an excuse not to run Land Speeders and Stormtalons anymore. The same thing is said for Orks, who spam the **** out of Mek Guns anyway. Orks giving away 15 'free' VPs every game off of Bring It Down is no longer a factor. The best unit in the Orks' book, just got better.

Orks and Space Marines are already in the top echelon of the meta. Anything that buffs Space Marines (or Orks) is not needed in the game right now.

The win conditions do not need altering - not really. What needs altering is Factions and Units - but that's hard.

I don't disagree. But I'm more looking at the bottom of the meta. Where certain factions need vehicles to be viable in order to compete. Easing up on this secondary brings them back into the game and if Land Speeders and Mek Guns prove to be too big of a problem, than those specific units can be nerfed.

[Cheesegear]

Easing up on this secondary brings them back into the game and if Land Speeders and Mek Guns prove to be too big of a problem, than those specific units can be nerfed.

This feels like a situation where you only say that because you haven't played games in a while. Orks are Top 5 in the meta, with Bring It Down the way it was, and a big reason for that is Mek Guns.

Land Speeders and Mek Guns have already proven to be too big of a problem, all's you have to do to see that is not take Bring It Down against them - but fortunately it's so obvious to do so, so there hasn't been a problem. However, as the same with Thin Their Ranks, even if you take Bring It Down, if you don't have the tools to deal with 8+ Land Speeders, you've already lost the game anyway - which has happened.

But now that Bring It Down has been nerfed, there's no downside, even if your opponent does take BID.

We know that stupid as it is, Ork Buggy Spam actually works in 9th Ed. It's even better, now.

They buffed the bad Factions into mediocrity. But at the same time they buffed the already-good units into the stratosphere. The Power Curve is maintained. Nothing is different.

[Forum Explorer]

This feels like a situation where you only say that because you haven't played games in a while. Orks are Top 5 in the meta, with Bring It Down the way it was, and a big reason for that is Mek Guns.

Land Speeders and Mek Guns have already proven to be too big of a problem, all's you have to do to see that is not take Bring It Down against them - but fortunately it's so obvious to do so, so there hasn't been a problem. However, as the same with Thin Their Ranks, even if you take Bring It Down, if you don't have the tools to deal with 8+ Land Speeders, you've already lost the game anyway - which has happened.

But now that Bring It Down has been nerfed, there's no downside, even if your opponent does take BID.

We know that stupid as it is, Ork Buggy Spam actually works in 9th Ed. It's even better, now.

They buffed the bad Factions into mediocrity. But at the same time they buffed the already-good units into the stratosphere. The Power Curve is maintained. Nothing is different.

I honestly wouldn't have noticed even if I was playing games. There are like two people who play Orks in my meta and I'm one of them.

But again, I don't disagree. Mek Guns and Land Speeders should be nerfed. I'm perfectly fine with this conclusion. But this buff needed to happen because it was pushing already weak factions into nigh unwinnable games. You are correct, the power curve hasn't changed all that much (it does matter when competing against things like Custodes who don't typically run tanks anyways), but this was a crucial first step that needed to happen.

[LansXero]

why are we still pretending no-inv / no-trivially-cheap / drukhari vehicles matter a damn in a world where Devastator Doctrine and 'dreads shoot at BS2 even when they move' exist?

[Cheesegear]

But this buff needed to happen because it was pushing already weak factions into nigh unwinnable games.

You know who's on top of the meta right now? Harlequins. You know who gets the most benefit out of Grind Them Down getting nerfed? Harlequins.
Starweavers OP. Buff Starweavers.

See, the difference between Venoms and Starweavers, is that the things inside Starweavers, aren't ****. Venoms don't need fixing; They're -1 to hit with a 5+ Invulnerable. I couldn't ask for a better light Vehicle. They're fine as-is. I should get 2 VPs for destroying one. You know what sucks? Everything else in the Drukhari Codex. So when those Venoms get destroyed, what...Wyches and Warriors and Wracks come out? Please.

[LansXero]

You know who's on top of the meta right now? Harlequins. You know who gets the most benefit out of Grind Them Down getting nerfed? Harlequins.
Starweavers OP. Buff Starweavers.

See, the difference between Venoms and Starweavers, is that the things inside Starweavers, aren't ****. Venoms don't need fixing; They're -1 to hit with a 5+ Invulnerable. I couldn't ask for a better light Vehicle. They're fine as-is. I should get 2 VPs for destroying one. You know what sucks? Everything else in the Drukhari Codex. So when those Venoms get destroyed, what...Wyches and Warriors and Wracks come out? Please.

wat. Venoms are Kabal, you can't put wracks in there, I dont think you can put wyches either. Or is that Raiders?

Also, they are T5 with few wounds. They dont die to anti-tank, they die to heavy bolters or get punched at 4+ by freaking power swords. 5++ is nothing when you have joke T and barely any wounds. Of course, they also lose super hard to BAs carrying chainswords, with the added benefit of not even being able to disembark due to being surrounded.

The "-hit doesnt stack" hit Drukhari a bit less than it did Craftworlds, but since they didnt get any additional survivability AND SM did, their damage output is now not enough to match their fragility. Smaller table makes speed worthless, and so its in the trash can before you even consider secondary objectives. They are no longer a glass cannon, they are a glass nerf gun.

[Cheesegear]

wat. Venoms are Kabal, you can't put wracks in there, I dont think you can put wyches either. Or is that Raiders?

You actually choose what Venoms and Raiders are. They're anything you want them to be, but they're that for the whole game.

Also, they are T5 with few wounds. They dont die to anti-tank, they die to heavy bolters or get punched at 4+ by freaking power swords. 5++ is nothing when you have joke T and barely any wounds.

I repeat; Starweavers are the same Vehicle. Harlequins don't care about Grind Them Down. Because Harlequins are good outside of their Starweavers.

The "-hit doesnt stack" hit Drukhari a bit less than it did Craftworlds

Harlequins are the best Faction in the game with the same Vehicle.

Smaller table makes speed worthless

Harlequins are the best Faction in the game with the same Vehicle.

They are no longer a glass cannon, they are a glass nerf gun.

Harlequins are the best Faction in the game with the same Vehicle.

Venoms are incredibly good Vehicles. If you're not playing Haemnoculus Covens, you've already lost the game, and even then, Coven Units aren't that good. However, with Grind Them Down affecting everything equally; Cronus Engines and Talos Engines are back on the menu, and I can't see Drukhari armies at this stage running anything but Spearhead Detachments.

One of the best lists in the game:

Spoiler: Harlequins

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Troupe Master; Fusion Pistol
Troupe Master; Fusion Pistol

Troupe (x6); Fusion Pistols (x6), Harlequin Nonsense
Troupe (x6); Fusion Pistols (x6), Harlequin Nonsense
Troupe (x5); Fusion Pistols (x5), Harlequin Nonsense
Troupe (x5); Fusion Pistols (x5), Harlequin Nonsense
Troupe (x5); Fusion Pistols (x5), Harlequin Nonsense
Troupe (x5); Fusion Pistols (x5), Harlequin Nonsense

Skyweavers (x6); Haywire Cannons, Zephyrglaives
Skyweavers (x6); Haywire Cannons, Zephyrglaives

Starweaver
Starweaver
Starweaver
Starweaver
Starweaver
Starweaver

Spot the difference between that, and anything that Drukhari can make. I can tell you for a fact that it doesn't care if the opponent takes Bring Them Down, and now they're even better.
Troupes, Skyweavers and Starweavers. Beginners can make this list without even trying.

Although maybe Harlequins have been nerfed into the ground. I haven't checked.

[DaedalusMkV]

Although maybe Harlequins have been nerfed into the ground. I haven't checked.

No changes that I could see. Nerfs are for things that are hilariously overpowered, like Tau Commanders, Drone Squadrons and Grey Knight Brother Captains. Weak things like 'Starweavers' and 'Fusion Pistols' need no changes.

[Squark]

Space Marines
Inceptors were nerfed for IMO literally no reason. Maybe they meant Suppressors?

Apparently White Scars Plasmaceptors with a Jump Captain have been doing well, and GW can't just raise the cost of plasma exterminators by 5 because they split them into two >.>.

[Forum Explorer]

I repeat; Starweavers are the same Vehicle. Harlequins don't care about Grind Them Down. Because Harlequins are good outside of their Starweavers.



Harlequins are the best Faction in the game with the same Vehicle.



Harlequins are the best Faction in the game with the same Vehicle.



Harlequins are the best Faction in the game with the same Vehicle.

They might be basically the same points, but they aren't the same vehicle at all.

Venom is minimum 75 Points, can be 85 if you go with a second Splinter Cannon. Venoms actually got buffed in this latest update, as it used to be 90 points if you wanted two splinter cannons. Minimum points stayed the same though.

A Starweaver is always 80 points. Lets look at the cheapest Venom as I feel that's the more common choice.

For 5 points, the Starweaver gets, +1 to it's invulnerable, auto-advancing 6 inches, +1 carry capacity, +1 Attack, +1 WS, S6 guns so they can wound things on 3s, that can rend and actually have an AP. In comparison Venoms might have more shots if they are within 12 inches, but only wound on 4+ and at - AP. Admittedly, there are times when poison is better than S6, but being able to rend makes Shurikan Cannons better than Splinter weapons pretty much always in my opinion. And almost forgot, since the Shuriken Cannons are Assault, the Starweaver can advance and shoot, while the Venom cannot since its weapons are Rapid Fire.

Oh and the Starweaver can fall back and the passengers can still shoot, though admittedly that's because of the passenger's ability, not the Starweavers. Not that anything in Dark Eldar can do that in the first place.

So no, a Starweaver is not the same vehicle. It is significantly better in most categories, and equally matched in everything else. And is only 5 points more than the cheapest Venom.

[LansXero]

ITT: We pretend 4++ is the same as 5++ when Marines get AP4 during T1 so armor never matters. Also thats why IG tanks dont exist, they get blown up by 2 erradicators, VPs dont even get to enter the equation.

[Wraith]

New Year, New Army. Thought I would show this off because I really enjoyed doing it last time, but I've build my own HQ/Character to use in place of an existing expensive/ugly model

Primaris Azrael of the Dark Angels.

Spoiler: Imgur link, maybe? Who knows.

Show

Pretty easy conversion, Master Lazarus has basically all of the pieces that I needed - all I had to do was swap his boltgun for a Sternguard's Combiplasma (adding the shoulder-strap was easy, but optional), make room on his backpack for a banner pole (still in the post, sadly) and then give him an appropriate helmet. Sadly the one that comes in the Master Lazarus box isn't salvageable - he's holding it in his hand, which means that one side of it is moulded into the arm and re-sculpting that is beyond my skills.

Still, the Lion Helm is supposed to date back to the Heresy so it's not supposed to be a Mk10 helmet anyway, and will help it stand out a little more when the rest of the army comes together. Next up: Hellblasters, I think.

[Mystic Muse]

I think my new army will be Necrons. I can still get Indomitus boxes, so another 2 of those and I have 95% of what I want from Necrons anyway.

[Cheesegear]

Warhammer 40K; 2020
Part 2 - The Birth of 9th Ed.

With almost every Faction in a fairly good place off of the back of Psychic Awakening - the exceptions being Necrons (for obvious reasons), and Deathwatch - we head into the new financial year, with the announcement of 9th Ed. For better or worse...

Spoiler: July

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One thing becomes very, very clear from outsourced Warhammer Community articles. 9th Ed. was written with heavy community feedback. However, not with the community's feedback. 9th Ed. was written with heavy construction from the competitive ITC community - especially if they had YouTube channels. This had begun way back in 2018, where Errata and Chapter Approveds were written off of tournament feedback. However, in 2020, the game was being designed, ground up with help from the competitive community. Now, post-launch, we know that not all feedback was taken into account, as the game still had to be marketable to people who can't read, and to children. So - allegedly - there are a few things that should've made it into the game, but didn't. But still, whilst 8th Ed. was announced that it would be a competitive game, eventually. 9th Ed. is a competitive game - or it was supposed to be - from Day 1... Kind of.

Core Rules for 9th Ed. drop almost immediately. Let's take a look!

- A unit with 6+ models must maintain unit coherency with at least 2 other models. Conga lines, dead immediately on the first page. Smaller games = Better games.

- Command Points get an overhaul. Now everyone has the same amount of CPs. Extra Detachments cost CPs. CPs also partially regenerate. Supposedly, this was supposed to prevent alpha strikes. But all's it did was make them way more reliable and less costly, because an army consisting of only a single Battalion would have 12 CPs to work with. This also made dual- and triple-Battalion armies less necessary, which made dual- and triple-Battalion armies less taken. Smaller games = Better games.

- Reinforcements had an overhaul; Any unit(s) in the game can be placed into Reserves for a CP-cost. And those units can Outflank, and on Turn 3, those units can arrive from your opponent's board edge. Huge buff for small, melee units.

- Psychic Focus, a rule that allowed Grey Knights and Thousand Sons - specifically Rubrics - to be playable by saying that Smite didn't increase in Warp Charge, was only ever found in Erratas and Chapter Approveds, and as such completely disappeared from 9th Ed. (more on this in a bit). Shafting Grey Knights from their massive dominance, back to where they belong in the bottom of the meta, with Thousand Sons suffering the same fate. If you're playing either of those Factions, and you don't have Ritual of the Damned, your Faction is near-unplayable.

- Heavy weapons, only incur the -1 to hit when carried by Infantry. Vehicles and Monsters can shoot their weapons even if Engaged in Melee with only -1 to hit. This is a huge buff to Vehicles. But we'll come back to this, later.

- You can't shoot a Character, whilst it's near a unit with 3 or more models. A massive nerf to a lot of armies and to a lot of playstyles. As it means you're only required to take a unit down to 2 models before you can target Characters. Which is fairly easy to do. Wiping out an entire unit is hard, especially when it's not even your main goal. Your main goal is to target the Character. And now you can do that easier than before.

- Blast is reintroduced into the game after being a major sticking point in 7th Ed., and its removal is arguably one of the reasons that hordes were so dominant for the entire edition - outside of ITC, of course, who weren't playing by the rules that are written. Against units of 6+ models, you always have at least 3 Attacks. Against units of 11+ models, you roll max attacks. This meant that there were going to be two sweet spots; Units of 5 models. If you can't be a unit of 5 models, 10 models. However, with the new rule, you would have to know really, really well what you're doing and have a really good game plan, to have a unit with more than 10 models in it. This, combined with the fact that dual- and triple-Battalion armies are a thing of the past. Having an army with more than 30 Troops models would become a thing of past. Smaller games = Better games.

- If you declare a Charge against multiple units, when you roll the dice, if you don't succeed at all targets, the Charge fails. Multi-Charging is dead. If multi-Charging is dead, there really isn't a good reason to have large(r) units anymore. Smaller games = Better games.

- A unit needs to use a Stratagem, or have an Ability, in order to Overwatch. Well, via Stratagems, an army can only Overwatch with a single unit per turn. Is that real? That is real. Multi-Charging is dead. But, Charging with multiple units, is definitely back in the game. Of course, the age-old problem of making it into the 12" declare-range, still remains a problem that only good units can solve. So, still, a good Melee unit, is a good Melee unit. And bad ones, are the slow ones.

- Morale receives a needlessly complicated overhaul. That is, there's now an extra step that is both better and worse than the system before it. However, the 'extra step' doesn't happen if you pass the Morale test in the first place. So, if you already have a unit or army that passes Morale, you're still golden.

A big problem however, was that the bathwater wasn't being thrown out. All Codecies, and Psychic Awakening (but not Vigilus), were still legal. Which meant that people were already hard at work porting in some ideas about what makes good units, good. All we really need to know is the points and the win conditions. And when those points shake out, we'll see what sticks. Figuring out the meta wont take more than a few weeks...

Pre-Order Indomitus!:
- For that price-tag, is it any good? I'm gonna hold off buying one until I know more.
- ****. Buy it now because it's limited. Fear of Missing Out in overdrive!
...Exactly what you predict, happens. It sells out in less than 30 minutes in most timezones because of low stock.

Warhammer Community releases a Horrifying Article, predicting the meta before release. Forget waiting. We'll just tell you what's good ourselves!:

- "Units which will be able to take out the commonly seen threats on the tabletop while also earning you points will rise in popularity."
- "Resilience is the name of the game for these missions. The primary objectives are all about board control – holding objectives and, moreover, keeping your opponent off of them. This, in combination with scoring at the start of a turn, means that you need to not only reach an objective, you also have to be able to keep it."
- "The lists I expect to see will all embrace these facts. Elite, difficult to kill units like Custodian Wardens, Meganobz, and Terminators will become commonplace."
- "I think that the initial 9th edition meta will be alpha strike-heavy. The alpha strike is straightforward, easy to understand and, depending on a player’s chosen army, easy to implement. It involves crippling your opponent’s offensive and scoring capacities before they even take their first turn."
- "These anti-alpha strike lists will play the long game, weathering the alpha strike and proceeding to reliably score points every turn. Armies that can field units that cannot be shifted without dedicating an inordinate amount of force, armies that can field small, fast, easily hidden units, and armies that can win a war of attrition are all candidates for a long game approach."

No idea why something like that was allowed to go to print. But there you go, ladies and gentlemen. That's the game. Written for all to see. Posted on GW's own hype train. By some of the most competitive players and playtesters on the planet. Ignore it at your own peril.
You were warned.
The whole time, you were warned.
The meta wasn't predicted on Day 1. It was predicted before Day 1.

Necron players who pre-ordered Indomitus were in for a shocking disappointment as almost everything in the box was...Pretty bad.
Space Marine players who pre-ordered got...A mixed bag. So mixed that the aftermarket for Indomitus was huge. The main standouts being Bladeguard Veterans (a small, Melee unit) and Eradicators. Space Marine players who didn't pre-order Indomitus were shafted by scalpers. Why is everyone freaking out, though? Just wait 'til the starter sets. Put it back in your pants, guys. It's not that bad...

With Indomitus fully out, now. We saw the expanded rules, despite the major overhaul of Terrain, it was the same as before. But the main concept of any game is its win conditions, because win conditions determine how a game is played.

Primary Objectives are scored at the start of your next turn. Which means that you have to weather a turn of whatever you opponent is doing. Your opponent knows that you're trying to score, and thus can stop you from doing things, and as such, will. The pre-Day 1 meta 'predictions' are totally correct.
Secondary Objectives are all over the place. The best ones being the ones that score at the end of your turn, that your opponent can't really prevent you from doing.

Straight off the bat it's fairly clear that Secondary Objectives win games. And, despite marketing, you wont choose different Objectives every game based on your opponent and the Mission. Because that's stupid. What really happens, is that you choose 1 or 2 Secondary Objective before you even write your army list, and then write your army around those Objectives. Then, maybe, just maybe, your opponent has a fairly straightforward list where your third Secondary is blatantly obvious. This is very similar to Maelstrom '19. And it's almost exactly how the ITC was played. You shouldn't be leaving your Objectives and your win conditions to chance and circumstance. You should go into a game already-knowing what you're going to pick, and since you already know what you're going to pick, you built your army correctly.

There were no 'extra rules' for smaller games. It was the same rules. Instead of picking say, 3 Secondary Objectives, you picked one. Since you only picked one Secondary Objective, well, you already picked it before you wrote your list, right? Turns out smaller games are even more competitive than larger games because the win conditions are so much, much more clearer. Crusade is exactly the same, but instead of VPs, your units who achieve 'Secondary Objectives' gain XP. Speaking of Crusade...

There is a lot of hype for Crusade - a Narrative Campaign system with fully-realised RPG mechanics so that your dudes are Your Dudes! But Crusade is a debacle, because 9th Ed. is written competitively from the ground up, and nothing actually changes in Crusade except for how you build your army - that's all that changes, really. You have limitations and restrictions on your Collection - not even your army. Don't know why people thought that this was a good idea, but okay.

Further, building your Collection is tied to three - three! - Resource systems. And the way of gaining these resources isn't the same for every Faction, and it's not equal. Crusade is already thrown in the trash as it quickly becomes apparent that this wasn't really what people asked for. Because no two people's Crusade Collections will be the same, and that's by design. And that means that by design, Crusade isn't fair. The winners will win games, and the losers will lose games. And there isn't a rubber-band mechanic that 40K has, that can fix it.

But, the launch isn't all bad. Because 9th Ed. is supposed to be a competitive game, and we know from 8th Ed. that GW is trying to fix things. So maybe if we wait a while, this will all come good eventually. The main takeaway of the launch, is, unfortunately, "It's...Fine, I guess? Maybe come back in 6-12 months?"

A tournament packet is released at the same time as the rulebook. Indicating minor changes to Missions and Secondary Objectives. Infamously including that people should lose 10 VPs for not having a painted army - for whatever given value that has. But, the main takeaway was that by indicating that there was a difference at all between the Core Rulebook, and competitive gaming, implicitly says that the game isn't fair and needs to fixed...Basically on Day 1. That's incredibly bad, and only serves as a dividing wedge between players.
"We're not playing in a tournament, so why would we use the tournament packet?"

...Because the changes made, are changed in relation to fairness? Are you saying that casual players don't have to play the more fair version of the Missions and Secondaries? It's like saying that you're going to play a Faction or unit, but you're going to ignore the FAQs and Errata that nerfs them, because you don't feel like it.
(Again, there's an issue that the Tournament Packet is basically Errata-for-money, and that's a whole other issue. But does contribute to the problem.)

Spoiler: August

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August launches three - three! - starter sets:
- The Recruit Edition ****s on First Strike, from 8th Ed.
- The Elite Edition is categorially inferior to Know No Fear, from 8th Ed.
- The Command Edition is...Wait...What? It's just the Elite Edition, with terrain? People are mad.

Fallout is immediate, as Space Marine players realise that Bladeguard Veterans and Eradicators wont be coming for a while (if ever?). Their value on the aftermarket immediately spikes.
Oddly, for Space Marines, the starter sets do not lend themselves towards playing Ultramarines, despite the paint scheme - bring back Know No Fear, please?
Necron players begin laughing when they realise that the Necron Warriors will be full sprues (oh yeah, they can change weapons, now), and a Recruit Edition is cheaper than a box of Necron Warriors. Funny stuff.

Gorgeous Orruk and Daughters of Khaine models for Underworlds are released...No-one notices.
Escher models are released for Necromunda, but 40K players get mad 'cause 32mm bases means that they can't be used for 25mm-base models (e.g; Guardsmen and Cultists).

Spoiler: September

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Blackstone Fortress releases Unaligned Guardian Drones, for anyone - 'cause Unaligned... They sell out in approximately four seconds and they're never being reprinted.

For people in the world that can still play tournaments, tournament data is shocking. Small, elite armies, win games. The most obvious and most ubiquitous problem children are Space Marines. However, the real, undefeatable problem actually lies with Sororitas, Custodes and Harlequins. However, however, sneaking through the meta like a snake in the grass, is Orks! Yes really. Orks win a GT in Australia with only 25 models...Remember those Buggies everyone said were garbage? They're good now!

However, the main reason Orks are so good is that they play to an anti-meta. That is, they are the meta-buster. With the unit coherency rules, and with Blast, who would even take Orks? Knowing that Think Their Ranks is a thing that gives your opponent free wins? Ahh...That's where you're wrong. This isn't the Orks from 8th Ed. where hordes win every game. This is 9th Ed. where playing smaller armies, and playing like Space Marines - even when you're not Space Marines - wins games: Ghazgkull, Kustom Force Fields, and 3x3 to 3x5 units of Meganobz, and a whole lotta Mek Gunz. Yeah. Sure. You can have 60 Boyz as your Troops unit - something about Kustom Force Fields being a thing - but also unlike every other horde in the game, Orks are actually T4 and ignore Morale - even the new version. Besides, even if the opponent does take Thin Their Ranks to 'auto-win vs. hordes', it turns out that their army list isn't designed to take advantage of that, because they're trying to murder Custodes with single-shot high-damage weapons.

This tournament data was a fairly hefty nail in the coffin to Secondary Objectives the-way-they-were-marketed. Ignore your opponent. Ignore the Mission. The only thing that matters is your army and what you can do. To that end, you should only pick Secondaries you can actually achieve. Take the same one(s) every game, if you can. Unless your opponent is really stupid, and your army list is so good it can take advantage of your opponent even though you didn't even know what they were bringing. It doesn't matter if your opponent has 7 Characters, if you have no way of targeting. Assassinate is a bad Objective, even though you could potentially score 14 Points off of it. Only ever take Objectives you can achieve, easily, for the highest reward. Kill Points is often the most rewarding, the easiest, because that's what you're going to do anyway, especially vs. Infantry targets.

The internet-shill-media goes on overdrive to point out that 'Space Marines' aren't the dominant force in the meta, including going so far as to split 'Astartes Sub-Factions' into 7 different Factions so that it doesn't look like 'Space Marines' represent 34% of the competitive meta - and who knows how much of the casual meta they represent? Also ignoring that playing like Space Marines represents the entire meta. That is, <5 models per unit, each model has 2+ Wounds. Smaller games = Better games.
Once again, the ur-example being Orks; The best units are Meganobz, KFFs, Ghazgkull and Mek Gunz. Boyz and Gretchin are no longer factors.

"Orks are among the Top 5 Factions in the game. Space Marines aren't the best." is a nice headline, and good for clickbait. But when you ask "How?", you get the answer you expect.

White Dwarf brings back Index Astartes. Holy ****. Alright then.
First up, is Silver Templars. An Ultramarines Successor (...Templa- what?). It's a Chapter that takes Duellists and Master Artisans. Their Warlord Traits, Relics and few Stratagems all pertain to making Melee-based Ultramarines. It's not a great idea. But new, game-legal Warlord Traits, Relics and Stratagems? In White Dwarf? That's a big deal.

Spoiler: October

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14 months after the last Space Marines Codex...GW releases another one. There isn't a lot of changes that are actually made...To Primaris Marines. The main changes are made to Firstborn Marines. Specifically, +1 Wound. On the face of it, +1 Wound to all your existing models and you literally don't have to do anything, sounds amazing! But it isn't, because the extra wound is tied to an increase in Points Cost. Now, Primaris Marines and Firstborn are almost at parity. But, Primaris Marines have better (base) weapons and more attacks, so Firstborn costing almost the same points as Primaris Marines is actually a massive nerf. Scouts are moved to Elites, which means that Space Marines can't put cheap units in their Troops slot. And finally, most Stratagems are no longer usable on <Adeptus Astartes> units, they're only usable on KEYWORD units, and surprise...Most stratagems involve using KEYWORDS that Firstborn units, don't have.
So not only are Firstborn units hard nerfed with the points increase, they're also soft nerfed by excluding them from special rules...One of the biggest being that Centurions are the only Infantry unit(s) in the book that lack the CORE Keyword. Why? ...No idea.

So...Space Marines nerfed? Game is good?
...That's not what was written. Primaris Marines didn't change, or more accurately, got slightly better. And Primaris Marines were already in a good place. The major change to the Space Marines Faction, is simply 'Buy new models.' Back in 8th Ed., Primaris Marines were okay, but Firstborn were Just Better, so you really had no excuse to change things up if you didn't want to. Now Firstborn - especially Tactical Marines and Scouts - are Actually Bad, and as written, Primaris Marines actually got slightly better, if we're honest. So, Space Marines didn't actually change. They were on top before, and they're still on top, now. But, once again we have to fall back on the same things that we're saying about Factions like Orks, Tyranids and Genestealer Cults. The Faction isn't bad. Your Dudes are bad. It's not the same thing...Cry less, buy more.

However, one of the major changes to the game happens at this time, too.
A lot of 'basic' Heavy weapons have their Damage changed to 2, and a lot of D3 Damage weapons have their Damage changed to '2'. This clearly represents the fact that GW does recognise that Space Marines are the dominant Faction, and without relatively easy access to 2-Damage weapons, a lot of Factions are Just ****ed. However what this actually does, is push the meta a further step, and forces players to lean harder into three wound models; Terminators, Centurions, Gravis Marines, Custodes, Tyranid Warriors, etc. No one rule will ever fix the meta. Rules will only ever change the meta. Ideally, into a meta that the designers want - but there will still be winners and losers.
The meta is only 'fixed' or stablised if you assume that people can't buy new models...Which just isn't the case. You've only moved the goal post.

Additionally, GW announces that Grey Knights and Heretic Astartes Factions would also be getting +1 Wound. To date (January 2021), that hasn't happened. Eat ****.

Because it's the starter set, we also have to release Necrons at the same time as Space Marines...And Necrons are sad. Yes. It's like 8th Ed. all over again. A lot of it, is empirically, buffs. The 9th Ed. Necrons book is better than the 8th Ed. Necrons book. However, what it isn't is 'as good' as the Other Book that was released at the exact same time...Which is egregious, because that Other Book, is Space Marines. Unfortunately, making it pretty clear that there are a few things going on at GW, and who knows which is real:

1. There is an A-Team and a B-Team (and probably a C-Team). This lets GW write and design a lot of Codecies, very quickly, so that releases can never stop. However, for us, the consumer, it sucks massively because whether your Codex sucks or is good, is dependent solely on a crap shoot by what team GW assigns to the Faction, or
2. Space Marines get everything. Space Marines are supposed to be better than other Factions, or
3. It's Necrons...We'll just phone it in.

Point is, Necrons are not as good as Space Marines, and they were released at the same time so it's really obvious that something's up.

Changes to the Necron book include:
...Actually not many. (Lokhust) Destroyers and Wraiths are still the best units in the Faction. Add Nightbringer or The Silent King. Nightbringer is pretty good, now.
Oh yeah...The Silent King is an active participant of 40K now...What's Sigmar's excuse now?

However, out of both Factions we got even more insights into the broader game:
Secondary Objectives focus even more on Kill Points. Oh no...

We also need to find out more about Crusade:

- Faction Agendas are even more broken than Secondary Objectives,
- Faction Upgrades and Crusade Relics are even more broken than regular Upgrades and regular Relics. That's the incentive to level up. That's the incentive play. To be even moar broken than normal. Crusade is designed to be broken.

Oh no...Is this what people were waiting for?

Notably, both books feature rules which allow CHARACTERS to be straight-up immune to ranged attacks, and many cases of where units/models don't take up Role slots when you take them in conjunction with other units. Two very strong quality-of-life improvements for a lot of units.

GW releases Tactical Deployment, a Terrain Supplement that actively lets you set up Terrain in such a way to give yourself an advantage.
It is terrible.
It is ignored.

Additionally, Beyond the Veil is released. A Crusade Campaign, which allows you play a Crusade Campaign inside the Pariah Nexus (a setting described Pariah, four months ago, a different book, not this one). This Supplement gives extra Agendas (for any Crusade game), and then adds Pariah Nexus-specific Battle Honours and Scars and Relics of the Nexus. Insultingly, Beyond the Veil adds a fourth resource system - Investigation Points - which of course is achieved by achieving Agendas and winning games. Investigation Points work almost exactly like Requisition Points. So it's dumb that you now have Requisition and Investigation. But that's what gamification is all about. More bookkeeping for more upgrades. The more you hit that button, the more rewards the Skinner Box gives you.

It appears to be implied that Investigation Points are what you use to 'win' a Pariah Nexus campaign, but, like Shadow War - Armageddon (remember that?), Investigation is also a resource you can spend, potentially losing the campaign long-term, by buying upgrades. It's a tactical risk the player might make. However, since Crusades aren't supposed to 'end', there can be no 'winning' anything. So whilst it's implied that Investigation is something you might want, it doesn't do anything that Requisition doesn't do, which doesn't make it anything except superfluous and redundant.

Is this really the Crusade that people are waiting for?

Spoiler: November

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November releases two things at the same time again:

Deathwatch is just Space Marines+. They can use ~95% of the core Space Marines Codex, but they have extra bonuses vs. Harlequins and Orks. Yeah, alright. A lot of people can't say enough positive things about the Supplement. However, at the time of writing, it's January 2021, and despite very positive reviews of the Deathwatch book, they're still yet to place Top 4 in any given tournament, and that's weird. Are they not as good as they appear? Or are people just not playing them 'cause unlike other Space Marine Chapters, Deathwatch were literally on the bottom tables for most of 8th Ed. and nobody has a ready-to-go Deathwatch army for the 9th Ed. book?

Space Wolves is just more Space Marines. Again, Firstborn units are still terrible. Use more Primaris Marines. Your Grey Hunters and Blood Claws are outdated. Please use Intercessors and Incursors now. Space Wolves aren't bad. Your Dudes, are bad, and it's weird that you haven't figured that out yet. The only Firstborn units still worth a damn, are the most-special of specialist units, like Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cavalry. If your Firstborn model is "A model with 1 Attack and a Basic weapon.", it's a bad model. Notably, Space Wolves actually managed to give Reivers a purpose...But not calling them Reivers anymore and giving them different abilities.

Crusade Rules for Deathwatch and Space Wolves are still broken and focus on Kill Points, Battle Honours are broke. Nothing is changed. This is what Crusade is and is broken-by-design.

Index Astartes is back. This time with the White Dwarf's team alleged mascot Chapter. The Tome Keepers! So the WD Team wrote this themselves, it's gonna be a fanwank special, right? Let's have a look at some OP nonsense that the WD Team made literally for themselves...
An Ultramarines Successor with Bolter Fusillades and Indomitable. Oookayyy...One of those is good. But also they're straight out of the Codex. I could do this...
It's four Characters with fixed Relics (Relics from the books, that you can choose yourself), and fixed Warlord Traits-that-already-exist.
So...Literally nothing new was printed?

I mean...It's literally fanwank. But it's literally just models that the White Dwarf team made, and then they printed their generic Chapter and Character-loadouts for money. Like, someone was paid for this. "This is my Librarian, he has Ultramarines Warlord Trait #3, and Codex Relic #8. Pay me."

...This is why White Dwarf needs to die. This is the same team that printed the Silver Templars right? How come they put effort in then, but not again?
We know that things can be better. That's why it's so jarring when things are not good. Just do what you did before!?

Spoiler: December

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Blood Angels comes out. Again, with almost-little-to-no changes, no new models, and using the Space Marines' Codex as its foundation it was already good to begin with. We also sense a pattern that started in 8th Ed., but didn't go away. Space Marine Chapters are treated like separate Factions, but also treated like Space Marines. Which means that whilst the units might not change or differ all that much. A Space Marine Chapter gets twice as many Warlord Traits, Relics and Stratagems to choose from, which increases the amount of 'good stuff' a Chapter has access to - even though it's all still limited in how much you can actually use. The bottom line is, more choices = more better. Because the more choices GW gives you access to, the more likely it is that some of them might accidentally be good. And, the more good choices you can make in a row before resorting to bad choices, the better your army will be.

In 9th Ed., when it comes to the age-old question of "Should Blood Angels run Death Company or Sanguinary Guard for the next two years?" ...The answer is Death Company. Again. Ignore Wounds is Just Better than a 2+ Save. It just is.

Finally, we have our Christmas releases:

Jakob Bugmansson...Not bad. But also what would anyone do with him? He ain't no Gotrek.

Battleforces, let's go!
Space Marines; Ergh. It's...Okay? Question Mark?
Necrons; Couldn't spring for any of the new models, eh?
Astra Militarum; What is this!?
Chaos Space Marines; That would be real good if Heretic Astartes had +1 Wound...Which they don't.
T'au Empire; Well, if you bought it now you might be ready for a Codex when GW formalises The Greater Good into a Codex.
Tyranids; ...Uhh...No thank you.

Overall people seem to think that Chaos Marines and T'au would've been good...Six months ago when they were designed...In 8th Ed. Now? They're a waste of shelf space.

It looks like 2020 ends in a whimper.
Part of that might be worldwide reasons not letting people play, making it a dead game.
But that isn't true. Because mostly it's only two places in the world (the UK and US) that can't get their **** together. Everywhere else is playing games and holding tournaments, and even those people don't seem too impressed with what's coming out and what's going on with the game and the direction it's going in - the severe disappointment in Crusade is a massive kick in the junk to a lot of people.

Some people are blaming it on Space Marine content. That is, the game will be good once GW stops releasing Space Marines. Which is "Wait and see." with extra steps.
When it comes to "Maybe come back in 6-12 months.", it appears that we're leaning towards 12 months, rather than 6.

...Happy New Year, everyone. Hope you enjoyed 2020.

[Squark]

Blood Claws can compete with Assault Intercessors (Grey Hunters, not so much. Or rather, Grey Hunters compete with Blood Claws and Blood Claws are better), since they have the same number of attacks on the charge, can ride drop pods, and can have 2 power fists in the squad. But you NEED drop pods, and you need several (but for now, at least, you can have all the drop pods you want). Lukas the Trickster is also interesting, since he can let your powerfists re-roll all hits (And he appears to help pack leaders, unlike berserk charge). Plus, if you really want, you can get a special weapon and a combi-weapon in the squad at the cost of losing one chainsword, although at that point you're getting too expensive.

[Cheesegear]

Blood Claws can compete with Assault Intercessors

The only reason you should have Assault Intercessors if you've bought the starter box.
Otherwise you should be buying Incursors.

No-one should use Assault Intercessors if they don't already have them. They are a bad unit, even when they Fight twice. Incursors are Just Better.

[Squark]

The only reason you should have Assault Intercessors if you've bought the starter box.
Otherwise you should be buying Incursors.

No-one should use Assault Intercessors if they don't already have them. They are a bad unit, even when they Fight twice. Incursors are Just Better.

Fair. Although multi-part Assault Intercessors can be used with your leftover bolt rifle parts (There's 8 generic rifles+ an auto bold rifle and regular bolt rifle to a sprue of 5 models) to make Intercessors with different poses and get your hands on Primaris arms with melee weapons.

Or with a lot of fancy bits leftover, you could probably make some Bladeguard with them.

[LansXero]

Since I've been diving around TTS more lately, I found something weird.

How many people play with windowless Ls, a bunch of them, as 'area terrain'?

The WTC maps everyone seems enamoured of are horrible. Tedious, grindy, opressive garbage that for some reason people seem to love playing on. Why? Is this nonsense a common trend? Are people's imaginations so poor that when given free reign to model anything, the best they can come up with is... windowless L shapes?

Please tell me its just that I landed on a string of weirdos and normal people play saner terrain.

[Keraunograf]

Since I've been diving around TTS more lately, I found something weird.

How many people play with windowless Ls, a bunch of them, as 'area terrain'?

The WTC maps everyone seems enamoured of are horrible. Tedious, grindy, opressive garbage that for some reason people seem to love playing on. Why? Is this nonsense a common trend? Are people's imaginations so poor that when given free reign to model anything, the best they can come up with is... windowless L shapes?

Please tell me its just that I landed on a string of weirdos and normal people play saner terrain.

Nope that's normal ITC terrain basically. A lot of games happen on stuff like that.

[Renegade Paladin]

Since I've been diving around TTS more lately, I found something weird.

How many people play with windowless Ls, a bunch of them, as 'area terrain'?

The WTC maps everyone seems enamoured of are horrible. Tedious, grindy, opressive garbage that for some reason people seem to love playing on. Why? Is this nonsense a common trend? Are people's imaginations so poor that when given free reign to model anything, the best they can come up with is... windowless L shapes?

Please tell me its just that I landed on a string of weirdos and normal people play saner terrain.

ITC players essentially demand it because it's the most efficient line of slight blocker that doesn't have the "magic box" problem. They're obsolete with 9th edition's terrain rules, but everyone still has them, so they get used.

[LansXero]

So, DG leaks are out and... well the changes are pretty trash, but I'll let someone who hasnt been so vocally adverse to 9E dissect them.

[Cheesegear]

Fair. Although multi-part Assault Intercessors can be used with your leftover bolt rifle parts...

My good faith says when you read 'Replace your Grey Hunters and Blood Claws with Intercessors and Incursors...', you may have inserted Assault Intercessors in there.
If that's what you read, I assure you that I didn't mean it that way because I don't rate Assault Intercessors - yes, even though they can Fight twice. Intercessors and Assault Intercessors are very different units.

So, DG leaks are out and... well the changes are pretty trash, but I'll let someone who hasnt been so vocally adverse to 9E dissect them.

Anyone who doesn't have major problems with (the first 6 months of) 9th Ed., I wont trust.

[Avaris]

Meanwhile, back in reality, Goonhammer review of the DG codex. I haven’t read it in detail yet, but at a glance this seems to be the most positive I’ve seen them about a codex. So I would be interested in knowing what is so ‘trash’ about it from other perspectives, given it is so different.

(Yes, they get a preview copy from GW. No, this doesn’t mean they are corporate shills or any nonsense like that; they can and do give negative opinions when it is warranted, such as their regular criticism of the first turn issues in 9th and their review of the strategic terrain supplement. But I don’t expect that to be enough for the trust of some people here)