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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Indeed he was, and he was also jailed
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    I like the idea of a (still) evil Belkar and an obviously good Minrah being friends, but for them to have any kind of heart based relationship would need quite a bit of finding more in common with one another. I don't think there's the time, and I'm not sure Minrah's out looking for love. One could make a joke about being in that rift and an old song from Urban Cowboy "looking for love in all the wrong places" but I just don't see her current arc as romantically directed.
    Also, while V is perhaps not the most reliable of people at the time, Belker was once described as having two buckets "hate and lust". It would be fitting, in my opinion, for him to form a genuine friendship instead, with the first person to know him after he started changing.

    Also some personal bias towards the idea that not *every* main character in a work needs a love interest anyway and that forcing the matter is one of the plagues on far too many stories.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirggzmb View Post
    Also, while V is perhaps not the most reliable of people at the time, Belker was once described as having two buckets "hate and lust". It would be fitting, in my opinion, for him to form a genuine friendship instead, with the first person to know him after he started changing.

    Also some personal bias towards the idea that not *every* main character in a work needs a love interest anyway and that forcing the matter is one of the plagues on far too many stories.
    All I could do when I read this post was nod my head in agreement. Good point on Belkar breaking out of the hate/lust paradigm which was V's hypothesis {IMO done for comedic effect}; in any case, Mr Scruffy's influence has likely voided it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
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  3. - Top - End - #33
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Metastachydium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    In any case, I think Belkar was the only member of the Order to be jailed for a legitimate crime.
    Well, illegal crossing and battery/assault (for which Roy served time in Bleedingham) sound like legitimate crimes to me-

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    All I could do when I read this post was nod my head in agreement. Good point on Belkar breaking out of the hate/lust paradigm which was V's hypothesis {IMO done for comedic effect}; in any case, Mr Scruffy's influence has likely voided it.
    I never liked Vs hypothesis on that either. It struck me as intellectual bullying from an arrogant prick who'd rather condescend and belittle than deal with someone as a person. (Not that it struck a nerve with me, or anything)

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Metastachydium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    I never liked Vs hypothesis on that either.
    You're not the only one. Especially since we know for certain that V was wrong: Belkar very clearly did not hate Shojo, for instance, and I can't quite imagine him lusting for the guy, either.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Ron Miel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    I have my own hypothesis about Belkar's brain. Discussion starts here.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    I have my own hypothesis about Belkar's brain. Discussion starts here.
    You extrapolation on the hypothesis actually makes things worse? Like treating characters as deterministic is what puts me off Bioware games (that and their transfers to Xbox are damn near unplayable)

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    My personal take on this is that she is there to be a way for Belkar to show his less evil ways without the cynicism of the rest of the party.
    It’s strange but I don’t recall much interaction between Belkar and elan who would be the most supportive of such a turnaround after Durkon.
    She also acts as a necessary side character for Durkon’s solo stuff like the Astral journey and the negotiation. She has that slightly looser style that allows her to come up with clever ideas.
    'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    an arrogant prick who'd rather condescend and belittle than deal with someone as a person.
    Yeah, that's pretty much V through the first few books; remember when Elan wanted to MC into Wizard? FWIW, I've met quite a lot of very intelligent people IRL who are that arrogant and that condescending. It's not like Rich didn't have a lot of RL models to work from; I will take a wild guess and opine that he's had similar experiences. All he had to do was make a slight caricature of a common personality type and voila: V.

    @Ron: wow, that thread's ten years old.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-10-26 at 07:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    I would say her purpose is more than to be there for any one character, but to as a whole show a new perspective on the order, how they've grown, and how the story has grown with them. It looks like there won't be any new allies in the final arc, just the order and the two paladins. Minrah is there to prove a new non-antagonist for the Order to have new interactions with, like Wrecan, or Ian, or (for a time) Malack and Tarkin, or Hinjo, or (for a time) Miko. It would be a little bit more dull if Oona and the two invisibles were the only people in the final arc that we haven't known for 10+ years.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    If you really want to know what role Minrah has in the story it gets a paragraph or two in one of the commentaries for book six.

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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    Minrah: When you make a change, everyone who meets you from that point on? Only knows the new version of you. And that's nice.

    I think this is the beginning of something important.
    Agreed, though I think this page is more significantly so.

    Minrah is an outside observer. She's here to stomp bad guys, sure, but she's also seeing all of this for the first time, and that means she has unique insights into what is going on that the others don't. Including Redcloak.

    I suspect she's important because she complements Durkon. At some point, Durkon has to convince Redcloak to turn on Xykon, and accept what the goblins in this world have, right now. That would be a difficult task on his own, but now there is Minrah, too. And her contribution so far has been to force Redcloak to see that he's taken his eye off the ball. It's almost a good cop/bad cop (polite cleric/blunt cleric?) relationship.

    And she's not just here to help. She's here so that she and Durkon can do this together.
    Last edited by Sky_Schemer; 2020-10-30 at 12:55 AM.
    If you can read this you are too close.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Yeah, that's pretty much V through the first few books; remember when Elan wanted to MC into Wizard? FWIW, I've met quite a lot of very intelligent people IRL who are that arrogant and that condescending. It's not like Rich didn't have a lot of RL models to work from; I will take a wild guess and opine that he's had similar experiences. All he had to do was make a slight caricature of a common personality type and voila: V.

    @Ron: wow, that thread's ten years old.
    People who have put a lot of time and effort into something typically resent others taking shortcuts to achieve the same thing. And that's in all fields, not just the more intelligence-driven fields like academia. Just think of how universal "back in my days" is.

    Part of that is driven from a sense of justice (equal results should stem from equal investment), another part from egoism (this new person challenges my status), another part from pride/sunk-cost (this new easier solution suggests I was stupid to put all the investment I did).

    It's human nature.
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    The scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    If a sudden whirlwind romance dose break out.
    It could be another point for the "B" lives by changing his name argument.
    I should get a Signature

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanwolf View Post
    If a sudden whirlwind romance dose break out.
    It could be another point for the "B" lives by changing his name argument.
    Is that honestly an argument? Because that's water-milk-teabag levels of weak.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Is that honestly an argument? Because that's water-milk-teabag levels of weak.
    Oracle: He ceased to be Belkar Bitterleaf and became Darth Vader when that happened the evil halfling who was colleague was destroyed, so what I told you was true - from a certain point of view.
    Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-10-31 at 10:07 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    "From this day forward, I'm no longer Belkar Bitterleaf. From now on, please call me Bullcrap Bitchleaf!"

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Ron Miel's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    I've always predicted "Rakleb".
    .
    -.____________________
    ./___________________()-------Ron Miel
    |...___________________--------sits down
    |..| |_________________()-------and starts
    |..|/__________________--------singing
    | ___________________()-------about gold

    .

  19. - Top - End - #49
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Count Stabbula? Unbelkar? Goodkar? Reedemy Goodshoes? Posi-Halfling? Belkzarro? The Halfling Previously Known as Belkar? Brad?

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Oracle: He ceased to be Belkar Bitterleaf and became Darth Vader when that happened the evil halfling who was colleague was destroyed, so what I told you was true - from a certain point of view.
    Luke:... OK Obi you know that's total bantha-crap but I'm gonna let it slide. What I'm really pissed about is that you didn't tell me the Princess was my freakin' sister, and the new films left out my Holo-Jedi girlfriend!

  21. - Top - End - #51
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Re: Hypothesis about Minrahs role in the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Count Stabbula? Unbelkar? Goodkar? Reedemy Goodshoes? Posi-Halfling? Belkzarro? The Halfling Previously Known as Belkar? Brad?
    The Belkster or The Sexy Shoeless God of War fit better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
    How Teleport Works

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