Star Trek Discovery - Season 3 [Spoilers]

[Mando Knight]

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I really don't think Q. He has no reason to bother himself with Georgiou, and why base himself on a geographical location.

I mean, the only powerful being that I think would fit the modus Operandi of a targeted portal is the Guardian of Forever. But the aesthetic don't match the old episodes.

Anyway. I think Georgiou dissociation problem is that she doesn't feel she belongs in the Prime Verse. Like she said: she is trapped in her version of Mirror Universe. The purpose of this quest is for her to accept that her a Prime Universe is ours.

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I'd seen discussions elsewhere that lean towards the Guardian of Forever, mainly because Carl's newspaper has several references specifically to the events from The City on the Edge of Forever.

[Cikomyr2]

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I'd seen discussions elsewhere that lean towards the Guardian of Forever, mainly because Carl's newspaper has several references specifically to the events from The City on the Edge of Forever.

SCORE!!!

[thatSeniorGuy]

Love it when the actors can go all ham Especially Sonequa, though of course Michelle Yeoh always takes the cake.

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The planet is in the Gamma Quadrant I think, so not the Guardian of Forever. I guess it could be a Q, but the computer/sphere pointed out that specific planet and location so it's probably a local inhabitant/feature.

Edit: derp, didn't see all the new posts. GoF it is then?

[JadedDM]

Well, now we know who Carl is.

Spoiler: S3E10 - Terra Firma, Part 2

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He really was the Guardian of Forever. Apparently after the Temporal Wars, he packed up and moved to another planet.

[Cikomyr2]

Well, now we know who Carl is.

Spoiler: S3E10 - Terra Firma, Part 2

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He really was the Guardian of Forever. Apparently after the Temporal Wars, he packed up and moved to another planet.

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Hot damn. I wonder where and when the main character ended up after her departure.

In the Prime Universe? The Mirror Universe? Before DIS? After TOS? After DS9?

Is she gonna appear in Picard?!

[JadedDM]

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Hot damn. I wonder where and when the main character ended up after her departure.

In the Prime Universe? The Mirror Universe? Before DIS? After TOS? After DS9?

Is she gonna appear in Picard?!

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She was slated to star in the Section 31 show, is what I heard. So I assume that is what this is setting up. Not sure what year it is supposed to take place, though.

[Cikomyr2]

Ooooohhhhh that was a fun episode!! Goddamn To Be Continued

[Dire_Flumph]

Ooooohhhhh that was a fun episode!! Goddamn To Be Continued

Spoiler: Episode: Su'Kal

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I agree for the most part, great to see Doug get a chance to be out of costume even if the justification was a bit odd.

Only big downside was I was hoping Tilly would get a win during her first time at command. Even if the ship was still lost it would have been nice to see it be more of a contest.

[Psyren]

Spoiler: Episode: Su'Kal

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I agree for the most part, great to see Doug get a chance to be out of costume even if the justification was a bit odd.

Only big downside was I was hoping Tilly would get a win during her first time at command. Even if the ship was still lost it would have been nice to see it be more of a contest.

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I would count not getting any of the crew killed as a "win" personally. I suspect Burnham will say the same.

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She was slated to star in the Section 31 show, is what I heard. So I assume that is what this is setting up. Not sure what year it is supposed to take place, though.

My guess - she will be there to help found that organization.

[Hands_Of_Blue]

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Su'Kal reminds me of characters like Gary Mitchell from Where No Man Has Gone Before, Charlie from Charlie X, John Doe from Transfigurations, or even Kes from Voyager, as characters who for whatever reason gained potentially dangerous almost god like powers. So while I would have preferred a more scientifically plausible explanation for The Burn, this isn't unheard of in the Trek verse. Also, hopefully the dilithium planet is acting like a amplifier for his powers, and if they take him to a normal planet he can just live out a regular life, because he seems to dangerous to let live otherwise if him getting upset will screw over the entire galaxy, again.

[Dire_Flumph]

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I would count not getting any of the crew killed as a "win" personally. I suspect Burnham will say the same.

Spoiler: Su'Kal

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Unfortunately it's hard to call that a win as Osyraa wasn't trying to kill anyone, and Tilly was supposed to blow the ship rather than let the spore drive fall into enemy hands.

All I'm saying is that at the very least I'm hoping Tilly is able to retake the ship without needing to be saved by Michael.

[Cikomyr2]

Spoiler: Su'Kal

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Unfortunately it's hard to call that a win as Osyraa wasn't trying to kill anyone, and Tilly was supposed to blow the ship rather than let the spore drive fall into enemy hands.

All I'm saying is that at the very least I'm hoping Tilly is able to retake the ship without needing to be saved by Michael.

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That would be my guess as well. *Tilly* will retake the ship. Maybe she will use Michael's assistance, but Tilly will have her chance to win back her ship.

Also, one of Starfleet's best captain had his ship taken over by Ferengi salvagers, so it's not like Tilly's defeat today is career-ending. In my opinion, she probably did as well as she could have with the information she had. She couldn't anticipate a MicroBurn.

[Spiderswims]

As far as they have said Section 31: the TV show is set in the "couple years before Kirk" timeline. But I'd guess they will time jump around too.

Spoiler: Su'Kal

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It would have been bad enough if the Burn was some evil company, Spaceron, that was trying to make super dodexhexaderdron -ithium that 'cause galaxy warming" or if some beyond dumb bad guy was using the Brun as a way to rule the galaxy.

But it's beyond bad when it's a dumb little kidz. It's one of the worst tropes in Sci fi: that dumb kidz can destroy the world/galaxy. It's SO annoying. And if it WAS true.....the whole universe would be destroyed in less then a second....one kid does not want to eat brussel sprouts...and bam, everything gone. SO DUMB.

[Underground]

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THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE STAR TREK DISCOVERY ???

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Woa.

That honestly never occured to me.

I tried watching S03E01 and I was terminally turned off after 2 minutes.

Well I guess that explains why that show is still around. For the life of me I couldnt figure out why thats the case.

[JadedDM]

It's popular enough to produce three seasons (fourth one has already been greenlit), plus six spinoffs, so...yeah. Lots of people like it.

[Cikomyr2]

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THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIKE STAR TREK DISCOVERY ???

...

Woa.

That honestly never occured to me.

I tried watching S03E01 and I was terminally turned off after 2 minutes.

Well I guess that explains why that show is still around. For the life of me I couldnt figure out why thats the case.

A ****ton of people like Discovery. You gotta watch it before you decided that you disliked it my man.

I don't see how you can let 2 minutes of a solo scene turn you off to an entire show, unless you hate something specifically about the actress.

[Psyren]

Well I guess that explains why that show is still around. For the life of me I couldnt figure out why thats the case.

It's popular. And good. Not a difficult concept.

Spoiler: Su'Kal

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Unfortunately it's hard to call that a win as Osyraa wasn't trying to kill anyone, and Tilly was supposed to blow the ship rather than let the spore drive fall into enemy hands.

All I'm saying is that at the very least I'm hoping Tilly is able to retake the ship without needing to be saved by Michael.

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And oh look at that, the minor characters ended up saving the day. So yeah, keeping everyone alive was a win.

Of course they needed Michael - just like Michael needed them. That's kind of the point of the show. I am happy that Michael got the chair in the end, as Georgiou foreshadowed right before she left.

[Dire_Flumph]

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And oh look at that, the minor characters ended up saving the day. So yeah, keeping everyone alive was a win.

Of course they needed Michael - just like Michael needed them. That's kind of the point of the show. I am happy that Michael got the chair in the end, as Georgiou foreshadowed right before she left.

Spoiler: Discovery S3 Finale

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Except, that wasn't what I was hoping for. At the end of Su'Kal, under Tilly's first command, Discovery was hijacked almost comically easily. I don't really blame her for that, but it was her 1st command, and I was hoping for a "win" for her, even if she lost the ship.
Preventing an enemy objective, making the takeover much more difficult than anticipated, etc, and that really didn't happen. Even the villains gloated over how poor her performance was as captain the next episode. I really can't count keeping everyone alive a win given how often the villain was shouting not to kill anyone until after the negotiations collapsed.

In return, I was hoping retaking Discovery would be more her moment. I don't need her Kirk-punching the villain, but she should have been in command, leading, coming up with plans, inspiring, etc. And she wasn't. She was brave, she contributed, but she really didn't come off as in command much at all. Instead, as always, the show needs to make it perfectly clear that Michael is and always will be the hero. Michael makes the big decisions, Michael comes up with the plans (even when it should have been Tilly to come up with the way to get the ship out of warp at the end). And, realistically, that's Discovery to date, love it or leave it. I just don't find Michael that interesting, and S3 seemed to be making promising steps towards giving the other characters more time to shine.

I'm just a bit disappointed that's all. I said I was hoping that Tilly wouldn't need to be rescued by Michael and that's pretty much what happened. I liked Tilly's promotion to First Officer this season, I just hoped her first command would be more of a moment for her.

Still, overall, good season. Easily Discovery's best, and very enjoyable. I think the show has finally come into its own, and I'm looking forward to season 4.

[Psyren]

Tilly did have moments:

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The morse code trick, figuring out how to reach the nacelles to execute Michael's plan, and most importantly of all, listening to her experts (like Owo and Book) when it counted. That she needs just a bit more seasoning before she can be on Michael's level is understandable and not a reflection of her talent. I expect she'll have the opportunity to gain more XO experience in Season 4, and this will likely culminate in an arc for her character.

As for Michael, she served as First Officer for several years (under Georgiou Prime no less, an A-tier captain/mentor in her own right) before the show even began. That she has more experience than Tilly, who had the job for less than a week, barely warrants comment.

[dehro]

Doesn't Tilly still have several ranks to climb before she can actually be a fully fledged captain? (other than by battlefield promotion, I mean)

As a final consideration on Michael.. and how her role has been in these series so far.. I have a few gripes that have to do with how she always gets away with complete disregard for anything but her own opinion/guess/intuition of the episode..
In some of the conversations she derailed, she shouldn't even have been in the room.
I understand that she's the main protagonist despite Star Trek usually being a team thing (and sorry, but this iteration just isn't).. but this thing did annoy me on multiple occasions.

Also.. her final line?

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She should have gone with "gelato".. not with "let's fly"

[Cikomyr2]

The fact that Michael came out as "the absolute best of Starfleet on all possible fronts" really pisses me off.

I like Michael. She's a great character, and respect her sense of morality. But I don't think she's Starfleet Command material.

She should be a Starfleet diplomat/intelligence/operative. She has a lot more talent and attitude about that. She does best when she's on her side mission and the crew is doing their thing.

I dislike when she just single handely save the crew because the story said she had to.

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The time that Michael had her victory handed to her, I think, is during her bluff during the torture scene. What an ass pull. Victory through stupidity.

[Psyren]

The fact that Michael came out as "the absolute best of Starfleet on all possible fronts" really pisses me off.

She's charismatic, solid at physics/engineering, a great pilot, good in a fight, and thinks on her feet. Just like every other captain protagonist in the series. Why are these competencies so jarring for her and not any of the others who came before?

I like Michael. She's a great character, and respect her sense of morality. But I don't think she's Starfleet Command material.

She should be a Starfleet diplomat/intelligence/operative. She has a lot more talent and attitude about that. She does best when she's on her side mission and the crew is doing their thing.

I dislike when she just single handely save the crew because the story said she had to.

Oh yeah, side missions, Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway never had any of those. *eyeroll*

(And they never saved their crews either.)

[Cikomyr2]

She's charismatic, solid at physics/engineering, a great pilot, good in a fight, and thinks on her feet. Just like every other captain protagonist in the series. Why are these competencies so jarring for her and not any of the others who came before?

This is a good question and will probably need some reflection before answering. I don't want you to think I ignored your question.

[dehro]

She's charismatic, solid at physics/engineering, a great pilot, good in a fight, and thinks on her feet. Just like every other captain protagonist in the series. Why are these competencies so jarring for her and not any of the others who came before?

Except she's not the captain...
And fairly often, in the other iterations of the show, we see other characters bump the captain on the head and take over and save the day... but it's never consistently the same person.
so far, I can't remember Michael ever being wrong in a big way and having to be rescued. but I may be misrembering.
that said, the way she's scripted...
She's much more the standout hero of the show than anybody else was in any previous iteration of Star Trek.. where team effort was often more central, and many characters got their moment to shine.
the 360 degree of competence/excellence of pretty much every bridge crew member in TOS and TNG has always annoyed the crap out of me... and it's been quite a while since I've seen any of those episodes, but I am fairly sure that most of the people on those crews got several moments of individual character development and glory, with the spotlight entirely upon them. (more so in TNG)
This is occasionally done in Discovery too, but to a much lesser degree, and then often for characters on the way out... or as a way to further Michael's "told you so".
pretty much every major thing goes through Michael and very rarely is it a team thing.
More importantly however, she routinely goes against authority, against her training, against everybody else's opinion (sometimes because everybody else has purposefully been handed the idiot ball).. occasionally without real knowledge or assurance that her intuition, decision or choice is right..and then goes all in and commits everybody else to it.. and nobody calls her on it to any real degree.. ok, she was demoted..for.. 2 episodes?
There really are moments in this show where I just wished that the admiral, ruler, king or whatever just turned to her and said something to the effect of "I'm sorry.. why are you talking? in fact..who even let you in this room and why are you not at your desk when I speak to your captain?"

of course, she's the hero of the show and she happens to in the end be always right. it is a bit lazy, to be honest.
I still like the show, don't get me wrong..but it could be so much better if they spread the focus a bit more, and didn't go through everything through the lens of Michael... I can only hope that the next season will be focused on growing the other characters more...then again, now she's captain..it will be all the more about her. So far, the only other character that has had comparable levels of evolution and moments of "this is my battle, I'll call the shots now" is Tilly.. and to a degree, Saru.

[Cikomyr2]

And here's the thing. Michael had a full year of experience in the Future over her colleagues. So in a way, it makes sense that she has special treatment over her fellow bridge officer, because she has her own research and projects already ongoing, and her intelligence network.

That doesn't make for a good bridge officer. That makes for a great operatives. She has outgrew the mold of what a Starfleet officer and captain can do within a rigid chain of command. And her conflicting with said chain has been the main source of problem and friction of the season.

Her journey should have her pick up Spock's example. He was a better diplomat and operative for the Federation than a Starfleet officer, and I think this should be Michael's path as well.

[dehro]

And here's the thing. Michael had a full year of experience in the Future over her colleagues. So in a way, it makes sense that she has special treatment over her fellow bridge officer, because she has her own research and projects already ongoing, and her intelligence network.

That doesn't make for a good bridge officer. That makes for a great operatives. She has outgrew the mold of what a Starfleet officer and captain can do within a rigid chain of command. And her conflicting with said chain has been the main source of problem and friction of the season.

Her journey should have her pick up Spock's example. He was a better diplomat and operative for the Federation than a Starfleet officer, and I think this should be Michael's path as well.

worth noting that she seems to always have had this streak of character and purpose... and to a degree, the same special treatment.. even in the previous seasons.

[Cikomyr2]

worth noting that she seems to always have had this streak of character and purpose... and to a degree, the same special treatment.. even in the previous seasons.

Which is ****ing frustrating. The shows main weakness to me is that they are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Michael is a good character, just not the best bridge officer.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
I like Michael. She's a great character, and respect her sense of morality. But I don't think she's Starfleet Command material.

Originally Posted by dehro
…she routinely goes against authority, against her training, against everybody else's opinion (sometimes because everybody else has purposefully been handed the idiot ball).. occasionally without real knowledge or assurance that her intuition, decision or choice is right..and then goes all in and commits everybody else to it.. and nobody calls her on it to any real degree….

of course, she's the hero of the show and she happens to in the end be always right. it is a bit lazy, to be honest.

I’ve just finished watching Seasons One and Two, so I’ve had plenty of time to get to know Michael, and I have to agree with this.

When the show first premiered, I was guardedly optimistic about an all-new Trek, even though I wasn’t impressed that it would be yet another prequel. But the divided-premiere model, with the first hour broadcast and the second locked behind a streaming service, really put me off—and what I saw in that first hour gave me no interest in pursuing the series further.

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I won’t go through everything I thought was ridiculous (although I continue to detest their take on the Klingons), but in that first hour I came to powerfully dislike Michael, because I don’t agree that mutiny is something a Starfleet officer should ever resort to over a difference in tactics.

Beyond that, Michael killed the Klingon she and Georgiou were plannning to retrive, because of an emotional reaction—which both Starfleet training and her Vulcan backgroud should have prevented, not to mention the obvious logic of the consequences. It was completely contrived to place the blame for the entire war right on Michael’s shoulders, and given that I actively disliked the character, there was no reason for me to care about what happened to her.

Recently I had the chance to pick up where I left off, and I’ve come to appreciate Michael more. The acting is solid, and there’s been a slow softening of her acquired Vulcan reserve, which was nicely done.

But overall the show just can’t seem to figure out what it wants to be, and keeps falling back on overdone Trek tropes and callbacks. The first two seasons have been consistently ridiculous and consistently entertaining, so I’ve rolled with it, but much of it is just absurd. And the fact is, “Michael is always right” seems to be written into the source code of this show’s universe.

By now I have nothing against her personally, and Sonequa has done an excellent job with the role, but the contrived nature of everything makes it difficult to take the show very seriously.

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It was clear quite early in Season Two that Michael would end up being the Red Angel, which required a spaghetti factory’s worth of twisty contrivance to pull off. (Not to mention the fastest and most flawless rollout of new technology in human history. Even Iron Man had to go through a few testing hiccups before he got the hang of it, but not Team Discovery!)

That was profoundly disappointing to me, because it just keeps piling on the special, to the point that the two sides of Michael’s family—both human and Vulcan—have become as pivotal to the Trek galaxy as the Skywalkers are to the Star Wars galaxy. This is a sadness, because the Red Angel seemed like a fascinating way to bring in other players in the galaxy, operating on different timescales and power levels, who nonetheless have their own reasons for interacting with humanity. That, for me, is the essence of Star Trek: discovering new life and new civilizations, growing from the encounters while hopefully learning some humility along the way.

So it was utterly disappointing for the Great Cosmic Mystery to turn out to be Michael in a spacesuit sending up little red flares. Instead of boldly exploring the concept they created, the show retreated into something rather pedestrian, with a last-minute detour through Terminator territory.

From what I’ve gleaned just glancing through this thread, it seems like Season Three goes in a whole new direction, but with many of the same issues as the first two seasons. I don’t mind a look at the post-Burn galaxy, even if it’s not the future I’d hoped for the Federation. But if Michael ends up going her separate way from Starfleet, that’s probably best for both of them.

[dehro]

“Michael is always right” seems to be written into the source code of this show’s universe.

made me think of Susan Ivanova from Babylon 5 real hard...
I wish netflix or one of the others ran babylon 5 again..I'd rewatch that gladly.

[Dire_Flumph]

made me think of Susan Ivanova from Babylon 5 real hard...

Well, yes, but the difference is Ivanova is always right...

I wish netflix or one of the others ran babylon 5 again..I'd rewatch that gladly.

It's streaming on HBO Max starting on the 26th, so wish granted!

I've heard they've upsampled the resolution and restored the original 4:3 format, so I'm looking forward to revisiting the show myself. (Love the show, but the zoomed in CGI on my DVDs gets harder on the eyes every time I go back)