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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Hello Everyone!

    So, I need some advice on a system choice. I want to run a superhero game for my players, but the only systems I have really experienced was M&M 2nd ed. Not bad, but confusing at times, and definitely game breaking if the players chose certain powers. I know this cannot be completely avoided (it is a superhero game after all) but of all the players, only one has played the system before and even then it was in a failed game because of said overpowered building. I checked out M&M 3rd and while it seems like they have fix some of the balance issues, they have lost a LOT of clarity in power design.

    Example: In 2E, density was fairly straight forward, but in 3E I had to really think outside the box in order to figure it out. It just seems... complicated. Not the good kind either, where you feel like you are creating a truly dynamic character. Unnecessarily complicated.

    So, I turn to you. Below is the plot of the game I want to run, along with the general feel and atmosphere I am trying to create. First, if you like the idea, by all means, have fun with it. Second, if there is a system you know of that might be better suited to my idea, let me know and explain why it would be better. I have heard of many systems: Masks, Marvel RPG, Champions, Aberrant, etc.. I just never explored them because I have never really had what I thought to be an idea for a Supe game I really wanted to run. Heck, if you have a neat idea on other things I might do I am all ears. I really like this idea, and I want to do well with it.

    The Plot:

    The game is going to start with a "prologue" of sorts. In this prologue, players are creating themselves. They are attend EpiCon, The most epic convention on the planet! This is Nerdvana with video games, anime, cosplay, board games, comics, and TTRPGs all being represented. Various events throughout the day even earns the chance for glory through video game, card game, LARP, Cosplay, trivia, and other competitions. Glory earns coveted exclusive tickets for events. The players are there and the initial days/competitions are going to be used for simple skill checks to get them used to the system. This can be anything from dealing with people cutting in line to dealing with bullies to entering into competitions. These take place of a few in game "days".

    One the third day, a huge announcement rips across the convention. Judah Gray, the person responsible for some of the most influential comic book characters and games has just announced a special last minute panel. Through competitions of luck, the players manage to score tickets. Things are strange though when they see some of them are in different rooms, but at the same time. They proceed to the rooms where in each room they are given a headset and gloves. When they put the headset on they see Judah Gray standing right there. He explains this is not a lie, but a new system to take AG gaming to the next level. However, not everything is well. A new masked figure appears, hijacking the system. Before anyone can react he releases a blast of power that rockets across the system, and people black out.

    When they wake, they see chaos around them. Monsters bursting out of walls, people running for their lives. The problem is, the headsets are broken, the gloves fried. This is not AG, this is reality. The masked figure appears, and congratulates them. They have been given a great gift. He introduces himself as Genesis, but to them he can be called Adam. Yes, that Adam. He says for centuries, people have feared gods, but have also written about them and their extraordinary powers. However, these were not myths, they were in fact the first metahumans. For centuries, Adam searched for the power behind this. Finally, he was able to find it, and with it, he has created new gods to set the world back on its proper path. However, the process is not without its cost. As gods are created, so to are Monsters allowed in the world. Their first task, is to hunt down the monsters and wipe them out from the convention center. Conveniently (isn't that always the way it goes?) a group of monsters attack. The players are broken up though, and must also find each other. A group of them are also in a room with the REAL Judah, who seems to have been given powers as well.

    At this point players will get an upgrade and get to make powers.

    The players spend time trying to find each other, when they come across a room that has a group of new metahumans trying to break in, claiming there is a pretty powerful monster in there. If the players help, they manage to break through the door, and inside are several creatures. They engage in battle. The NPC supes leave but the players can notice one last monster hiding in the corner. If they attack, it runs, it does not attack. If the players realize this then they can try to calm the monster down. Getting close reveals a terrible truth. The monster is one wearing the clothes of someone they know. An NPC attached to the group. The monsters weren't let into the world, they were created from people! Further, this one seems to remember something of what they were. The players can feel a raw kind of power coming of the monster, and when one of them touches it, they get fleeting glimpses of the monsters and supers trying to destroy them to get at the power inside the monster.

    More and more they come across new supes destroying what could be former friends and family. Moral decision time. Eventually, the players get back to Judah, who has spent his time trying to make a fortified position. When they arrive, he tries to attack the NPC monster friend. If they try to stop him, they find out Judah Gray is in fact Adam, and that the power inside their friend is a developed stone capable of creating more gods, and more monsters. He knew it would need to be found for him to continue his work, which is why he chose the convention. A contained space, lots of test subjects, and the wish fulfillment of true power would not be under appreciated by those who received it. He then attacks and the fight is underway. Depending on how it goes, the end will hopefully work out that the new monsters and supes escape, the battle with Adam ends with him getting the stone, and the players end the story on the day the world changed forever.

    The setting:

    The setting now takes place well into the future. Humanity has balanced itself. Programs, weapons, and specially trained police are now there to handle the "threat" of the supes. Other supes have rallied with them. The chance of getting powers is slim at best, but the players are now new characters in this new world.

    I am not going too far with this part, because I want to get some feedback from my players on what the world looks like, how it reacted and adapted to this new event, what life is like for new supers among other questions. I want to take that into consideration before I devote too much time to the setting. However, I wouldn't mind a kind of Static Shock/X-Men style atmosphere.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    For system, M&M2e works fairly well. I enjoyed it well enough both as a player and GM. M&M3e is...well, I want to like it, but it seems far more complicated without any promise that it will produce more fun for all that extra work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky4u2 View Post
    In this prologue, players are creating themselves.
    I'd suggest not doing this. I give such games a hard pass every time. Do you want to arbitrate why your friend's character (that represents your friend IRL) really should have a lower Int and Cha than your other friend's character? That's just the tip of the iceberg on this type of thing can go all wrong.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky4u2 View Post
    Hello Everyone!

    So, I need some advice on a system choice. I want to run a superhero game for my players, but the only systems I have really experienced was M&M 2nd ed. Not bad, but confusing at times, and definitely game breaking if the players chose certain powers. I know this cannot be completely avoided (it is a superhero game after all) but of all the players, only one has played the system before and even then it was in a failed game because of said overpowered building.
    In a superhero game, the GM's primary responsibility is to prevent game-breaking powers. You must explicitly reserve the right to disallow certain powers and certain builds, and then use that power.

    The last time I ran a Champions game, my introduction to the game included the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Introduction to Silver Age Champions Campaign
    These are early Silver Age characters, which means that they have difficulties and weaknesses. Don’t try to make a character who can survive anything. The team books of the time leaned on the weaknesses of each character, allowing other heroes to rescue the one in trouble. (Kryptonite was extremely common in Justice League stories, for instance.) You may assume that I will arrange to take each of you out of the action occasionally, for story purposes. Don’t make me have to drop a mountain on you to do it.
    ...
    Tell me what you want to do, and I will help you find the best way. But when we’re done, the character will be less powerful than you’re used to, and with greater weaknesses.

    I know most of the ways to try to build a character worth much more than the rules intend. If you come up with such a strategy, I will congratulate you on your cleverness and ruthlessly disallow it.
    ...

    If you want, I will design your character. But I need time. Please tell me what you want, and we’ll come up with the best version I can produce.
    ...

    10. I reserve the right to put limitations on the following powers, to prevent game-warping effects: N-Ray Vision, Clairsentience, Desolidification, Extra-Dimensional Movement, Faster than Light Travel.

    11. The character must have at least one reasonably common weakness – a Vulnerability or Susceptibility, or a conditional PD and ED. I must have a way that I can take the character out quickly, for plot purposes. He or she might take double damage from fire like J’onn J’onzz, or be vulnerable to Kryptonite like Superman, or his defenses might be in a shield that doesn’t block everything like Captain America.
    ...

    14. I will add a –1/4 limitation of my own choice to any power of 60 or more active points. I will add a –1/2 limitation to any power of 80 or more active points. I will add limitations adding up to at least –3/4 to any power of 105 or more active points. I will decide on a case-by-case basis how much Limitation I will give any powers much above that level. These limitations will be chosen specifically to keep them fun and valuable, while limiting their ability to screw up my plans, so I will not tell you why I chose them. You may or may not know what this limitation is at the start of play. Limitations I choose are likely to include side effects, gestures, restrainable, Reduced by Range or Reduced Penetration, Gradual Effect, Extra Time, or something else that gives me as GM an opportunity to prevent their use at specific moments for story purposes.

    15. No power may have over 45 Real Points (how much it costs after adjustments for Advantages and Limitations). For instance, you may have a 100 Active Cost power, but you will need to give it Limitations totaling –3/4, so that after it gets my –1/2 Limitation, it will only cost 44 points. Powers in an Elemental Control or Multipower will be treated as stand-alone powers for purposes of this rule.

    If these rules make your character conception impossible, talk to me. That may mean the character conception cannot be used for this game, or we may find a work-around that meets your goals and mine together.
    And I did exactly what I said I'd do -- I congratulated one player on his cleverness, and ruthlessly disallowed the character. Then we worked together to find a work-around that met his goals and mine together, and he had a lot of fun.

    I designed one player's character for him. [Always a possibility with Champions.]

    But the crucial points are these.
    1. You must control the design process.
    2. You should work with the player to design a character that fits both the campaign's and the player's goals.

    [These are true in most games, but the problem can be much more acute in superhero games where the powers can grow absurdly.]

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    I always suggest Mayfair's DC Superheroes RPG whenever anyone asks for a suggestion of a game system. Yes, it's long out of print, but to my mind, it is the only superhero game system that does everything that a superhero game system needs to do. It's not perfect by any means, but I don't know of any better game (and yes I know about Champions and M&M).

    However, I might not recommend it in this case because one of its greatest flaws is exactly the issue that you're worried about: it is incredibly easy to make ridiculously powerful characters, even if you're not trying to, if you don't know what you're doing. And players with a minimum of game-system mastery can easily make ridiculously powerful characters if they intend to. But if you keep the powers and stats close to published-hero levels, then you'll probably be okay. (A skills character shouldn't be better than Batman, a strong character shouldn't be stronger than Superman (or even close really), etc.).

    One of DCHRPG's greatest advantages is ease of use. If you can describe a character in words, you can instantly create the stats without having to cross-reference one thing with another. You never have to calculate stats based on other stats (well, except initiative, I guess) or say "Well, you can't have a character who is both fast and invulnerable" (which I hear is a problem of M&M). And DCHRPG simultaneously gives solid boundaries for what a character can or can't achieve. (Too many "easy to use" games fall into the FUDGE or BESM trap of "well, ask the GM if you can do that or not" which doesn't help when you ARE the GM.)
    Last edited by SimonMoon6; 2020-10-17 at 05:49 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    I'd suggest not doing this. I give such games a hard pass every time. Do you want to arbitrate why your friend's character (that represents your friend IRL) really should have a lower Int and Cha than your other friend's character? That's just the tip of the iceberg on this type of thing can go all wrong.
    It's worked for me everytime I've done it. Two of my most appreciated campaigns (one of which was the longest running game I've ever run) have been of this sort. However, to make sure nobody complains too much, it is important to have a point system for the characters, so that Mr. McUseless-in-Real-Life and Mr. I'm-Smart-and-Strong-and-Skilled-in-Real-Life both get a fair shake. (And, yes, I've had a Mr. McUseless as a player in one of these games; his INT and CON got exaggerated a bit. And Mr. Skills-Out-the-Wazoo was a bit more restricted in his stats and skill levels.)
    Last edited by SimonMoon6; 2020-10-17 at 05:54 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    It's worked for me everytime I've done it. Two of my most appreciated campaigns (one of which was the longest running game I've ever run) have been of this sort. However, to make sure nobody complains too much, it is important to have a point system for the characters, so that Mr. McUseless-in-Real-Life and Mr. I'm-Smart-and-Strong-and-Skilled-in-Real-Life both get a fair shake. (And, yes, I've had a Mr. McUseless as a player in one of these games; his INT and CON got exaggerated a bit. And Mr. Skills-Out-the-Wazoo was a bit more restricted in his stats and skill levels.)
    What if somebody wants to actually roleplay somebody other than themself? What's wrong with them playing someone of a different nationality/age/race/religion/orientation/educational level/background/mental capacity/physical conditioning/shoe size from what they have in real life? I've seen nothing but grief come from the "make up you as your character" especially if you try to then balance it. You're effectively telling some people that they are better IRL and that other suck by deducting points from the former and boosting points in the latter to compensate. That's just ugly, but you do you.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    What if somebody wants to actually roleplay somebody other than themself? What's wrong with them playing someone of a different nationality/age/race/religion/orientation/educational level/background/mental capacity/physical conditioning/shoe size from what they have in real life?
    There's nothing wrong with that, which is why 99% of RPGs is devoted to exactly that. There is room for all sorts of games, including ones where the players play themselves. Turning your question around: What if somebody wants to play exactly themselves? What's wrong with that? Obviously nothing.

    The better question is: what is gained by having players play themselves? What makes such a game so incredibly awesome making such a game far superior to the other 99% of boring games where people don't get to play themselves.

    It's hard to say exactly but there is such a greater intensity of involvement when the player plays themselves. They don't have to think "what would my character do", they can simply do it. And their triumphs are far more personal because they themselves accomplished it, not some mere elven avatar that has nothing to do with themselves. Likewise, their failures are more tragic (and sometimes hilarious since it's fictional). Having such a complete identification with their character raises the game to new heights that are completely unachievable through the standard boring game where they don't play themselves.

    I've seen nothing but grief come from the "make up you as your character" especially if you try to then balance it. You're effectively telling some people that they are better IRL and that other suck by deducting points from the former and boosting points in the latter to compensate.
    I've seen no negative consequences, but then I have only done this with mature individuals who have known each other for years, so it's pretty clear who the smart people and who the strong people are. And the rest of the character creation process is usually people getting more than they should and they know it, which nobody minds too much. If Mr. McUseless gets higher stats than he should, well, we all understand why he has to because he's got to have *something*. Nobody gets mad, nobody gets angry.

    And nobody's having anything "deducted" because they didn't have a character before they started making one, so nobody's losing anything that they already had, since nobody starts with anything. People only get more than nothing, which is more than what they had. It's all win/win.

    But you have to have players who don't suck. If you have players who suck, then, yeah, you could have problems, but that's true for any game. Try not to have players who suck.
    Last edited by SimonMoon6; 2020-10-18 at 08:02 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    Try not to have players who suck.
    And when you do, you just give them more points to compensate so they know that just because they suck in real life, you'll bring the fantasy them up to par... Yuck.

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    I would advise to avoid playing one self....unless its a Super Hero Game.

    Cmon people, think!
    It doesnt matter what your regular stats are as long as they are not superhuman once you get your powers anyway (at elast in Systems that keep character creation within "regular Mortal" areas!).

    That said, this seems like a more down to earth, Supers are new, not aiming for "Co mic Convention in a Game System" to me.

    I would suggest Abberant (White Wolf, additional Bonus is that regular Abilities and Attributes are rather vague and offer only 5 steps, so arguing about "but I smarter/Faser/etc wont be a big point) for this.
    It has fewer possibilities to be game breaking, and offers no rules for "But in a comic now X would ahppen" which is why I usually use it if "real world turned Super pwoered" Games are the goal.

    Mind, it totally sucks at playing Silver Age/Similar §Extreme Powers and as Is aid offers NO mechanic for "Story Flow".

    But we had a lot of fun with it, especially regarding 2 X-Men Games we played using the System.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Masks is a wonderful Superhero game, the power levels aren't really a thing either since it's way more narrative focused. Saying that however, it's very focused on the TEEN aspect of the Teen Hero genre ala Teen Titans or Young Justice. It does not do a good job replicating adult super heroes. Powered by the Apocalypse games run wonderfully when you're using them for the niche they address and not so well when you're trying to use them to apply to other things. The system is agnostic but the mechanics built from that system aren't. They very much fit into games they're built for.

    That said, there is a Powered by the Apocalypse game that runs adult heroes. It's called Worlds in Peril and it's apparently really good. City of Mist is a more Noir style genre with elements of World of Darkness but it can also fit well for very specific types of hero games. Not DC/Marvel style stuff though.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    The problem with having players play themselves is the Dunning Kruger effect -- people of low ability over-estimate their ability, and people of high ability tend to underestimate their ability. Somebody with a year of karate might think he's an expert, while somebody else who competes in international competitions knows 100 people who can beat her, and says merely that she's "pretty good".

    Having said that, I must admit that one of the most fun campaigns I ever took part in was a GURPS campaign in which the GM designed our characters to be ourselves, in Renaissance England. I thought that he had grossly over-estimated my fencing skills, my political abilities, my performing skills, etc. It was loads of fun to play that guy. I wish I was him in real life.
    Last edited by Jay R; 2020-10-21 at 03:36 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    I have had a lot of success using White Wolf's Aberrant game system. It is fairly adaptable to settings, and easily scales in power. I have run games set in the Aberrant setting, DC (justice league, teen titans, bat clan), Marvel (xmen), a supers WW1, one that dimension jumped from one fictional setting to another...and I'm working on Worm right now...

    Character creation starts with an ordinary mortal, that then becomes a superhuman with a fairly balanced mechanic...

    With the players handbook, teragen splatbook, and the year 1 book, it does have the ability to scale up to "ultimate cosmic power"...might be hard to find these days...
    Last edited by aglondier; 2020-10-21 at 06:23 AM.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Hey Everyone,

    First, thank you for your advice, suggestions, concerns, and feedback! Truly, it means a lot because I am really excited about this idea. I am going to try and respond to everything I have seen, but if I miss something I am sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze View Post
    I'd suggest not doing this. I give such games a hard pass every time. Do you want to arbitrate why your friend's character (that represents your friend IRL) really should have a lower Int and Cha than your other friend's character? That's just the tip of the iceberg on this type of thing can go all wrong.
    I completely understand this statement, as well as the echoed statements from HappyDaze and Jay. For a majority of my time DMing I have held the same view. I was always wary of this style of game. I think the last time I did this was was when I was 17 (... *cough cough* 37 *cough*) and it was such an unenjoyable experience that I have told numerous new DMs to avoid it.

    However... I am older now, and I will be playing with people who are more mature and simply enjoy playing the game. To this however, I am also not going in blind. I have always had table rules, and as Jay said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    In a superhero game, the GM's primary responsibility is to prevent game-breaking powers. You must explicitly reserve the right to disallow certain powers and certain builds, and then use that power.

    But the crucial points are these.
    1. You must control the design process.
    2. You should work with the player to design a character that fits both the campaign's and the player's goals.

    [These are true in most games, but the problem can be much more acute in superhero games where the powers can grow absurdly.]
    I have already laid a little of the groundwork. The first thing I am doing is I am intentionally choosing players I can trust to not power game. I have been having one on one discussions with different people, and I have told them up front about the basis of the game, including they would be making themselves, and that I would be in more control of the designing process than I would be for say, D&D. I love the way Jay put some of his rules, and I agree that rules are useless unless they used. With your permission I would like to borrow the way you worded some of these rules.

    The second reason I am interested in reattempting the "play as yourself" style was well put by Simon and Gray:

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    It's hard to say exactly but there is such a greater intensity of involvement when the player plays themselves. They don't have to think "what would my character do", they can simply do it. And their triumphs are far more personal because they themselves accomplished it, not some mere elven avatar that has nothing to do with themselves. Likewise, their failures are more tragic (and sometimes hilarious since it's fictional). Having such a complete identification with their character raises the game to new heights that are completely unachievable through the standard boring game where they don't play themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    It doesnt matter what your regular stats are as long as they are not superhuman once you get your powers anyway
    I tend to agree that the closer a person gets to making "themselves" in a character, the more intensely they feel the game. Even though for D&D I don't play the "make yourself" style, when I am teaching new players (I sponsor the RPG club at the school I teach at) I do encourage them to put some decision making aspect of themselves into their character because it is easier for them to become immersed in the character and the drama of the game. Considering the heads up I am giving, as well as the players I am choosing, I think this is a benefit worth taking the risk over.

    Secondly, it is a superhero game, and they are going to be getting powers fairly early, which will negate the initial "I am smarter than this person" concern. I think it doesn't work in D&D because once base mechanics are in play, there is little adjustment room (2 points to a stat every four levels, 1 and 1 to two, or a feat, most of your power comes from class abilities, which are technically "learned" abilities rather than innate traits.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The problem with having players play themselves is the Dunning Kruger effect -- people of low ability over-estimate their ability, and people of high ability tend to underestimate their ability. Somebody with a year of karate might think he's an expert, while somebody else who competes in international competitions knows 100 people who can beat her, and says merely that she's "pretty good".
    Absolutely. If anything, this is my biggest concern, and why I was leaning towards M&M over other systems I have less or no experience with. Level 1, 15 power points, go to it. I was going to put limiters on traits, but the points spend fairly quickly even then. Also, I don't mind encouraging people to make a "little" more idealized version of themselves. This is a game/fantasy after all.

    Now, for systems:

    Like I said, M&M came to mind simply because I am familiar enough with the system to know giving them 15 PP to start means powers are definitely off the table, and they focus on the physical side of the character.

    Champions:

    This is a system that has been on my list for a while, but given I never get to play the Superhero games I have, I avoided it because of cost vs. opportunity to play.

    DC Heroes:

    I think I actually have this book... or at least some version of it, but the dust on it may be an indicator of how little I have looked at it. Sorry lol! Like I said, not always a lot of opportunity. I will have to look, but I think I remember saying something similar to Simon:

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    However, I might not recommend it in this case because one of its greatest flaws is exactly the issue that you're worried about: it is incredibly easy to make ridiculously powerful characters, even if you're not trying to, if you don't know what you're doing.
    I would be very concerned about this. I would have to dig and pour over the powers. Maybe even make a couple characters with my friend intentionally trying to break it in order to find the limits. Plus, I think it felt more golden age to me? Not that it is a bad thing, but I do tend to enjoy the more silver/iron age heroes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    One of DCHRPG's greatest advantages is ease of use. If you can describe a character in words, you can instantly create the stats without having to cross-reference one thing with another. You never have to calculate stats based on other stats (well, except initiative, I guess) or say "Well, you can't have a character who is both fast and invulnerable" (which I hear is a problem of M&M). And DCHRPG simultaneously gives solid boundaries for what a character can or can't achieve.
    Can you give me an example of the solid boundaries? Also, in 2e M&M you could do it, but 3e seems more complicated in that respect yes.

    Masks:

    You are right, it is teen oriented and one of the questions I had was is there an adult version. I will have to check out Worlds in Peril. I have NO experience with Apocalypse engine, though I have seen it because I have the "Monster of the Week" RPG. It feels... story based, simple, maybe a little railroady though because at least from MotW the "mysteries" are set up pretty generically. More like a, "Play for this long and give them this" situation or choose your own adventure style.

    Aberrant:

    I do have these books. I saw them the other day. What are the tergen splatbook and year 1 book if I may ask? Also, yes, this is also a concern:

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    ... and as Is aid offers NO mechanic for "Story Flow".
    I get lost in options... easily... too easily... I want to account for everything... mechanics for story flow keep me from getting lost and rambly...

    I think based on what I have seen so far I may check out Champions and Aberrant and compare it to M&M... Also, again, truly, thank you all for your advice and concerns. If you have any more about when it comes to running a superhero game please let me know. Pitfalls and other common issues you may have experienced.

    YOU ARE ALL AWESOME!

    Ducky4u2 (No I didn't almost type my teacher signature on a public forum... you can't prove anything...)

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky4u2 View Post
    DC Heroes:

    I would be very concerned about this. I would have to dig and pour over the powers. Maybe even make a couple characters with my friend intentionally trying to break it in order to find the limits. Plus, I think it felt more golden age to me? Not that it is a bad thing, but I do tend to enjoy the more silver/iron age heroes.
    I'm not sure what you mean by the game feeling Golden Age. To me, Golden Age comics are where heroes first began, but they are super-weak compared to modern characters. A lot of the Justice Society consisted of people who are just really good at punching. And even the Golden Age Green Lantern spends most of his time punching people rather than using his ring. I mean, yeah, there are outliers, like Doctor Fate and the Spectre, but even the Spectre hardly ever did anything cosmic during his Golden Age stories. Is that what you meant by Golden Age? Because the DC Heroes game is not at all like that.

    The DC Heroes RPG is a lot more Silver/Bronze/"Modern" than that. DC Heroes is the only game I know of that can EASILY describe the Silver/Bronze Age Superman without breaking the system or having to tinker some strange thing like "This character isn't really strong but he can lift a lot more with this 'lifts a lot' special advantage' or something" or having to roll a million dice with every attack. I have yet to see any other game system that can actually model the Silver Age Superman quite well.

    BTW, if you're looking at DC Heroes, make sure to be aware of the edition. The 1st edition uses pre-Crisis (Silver/Bronze Age) power levels, so you have the Superman who can juggle planets and every other hero is calibrated relative to his power level. The 2nd and 3rd editions use more Modern power levels. Those are the editions that are worth looking at.

    One of the weaknesses people often cite for the DCH RPG (that I don't completely agree with) is that it has difficulty differentiating between ordinary people like Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane. But... if you're playing a superhero game, my opinion is that you need to focus on being able to mimic the superheroics, not worry endlessly about the travails of ordinary people. But it can definitely handle the crazy wackiness of the Silver Age power levels.


    Can you give me an example of the solid boundaries?
    Well, suppose you want to turn into "anything" (any object of any shape), the way that the Metal Men and Plastic Man can. No problem, that's just "Self Manipulation". You have X points to split among the stats you need to be that object. You don't have to worry about how much DEX, STR, etc cost in the normal sense. You just go, okay, I'll be a crane with 10 points of strength, or a car with 5 points of strength and 6 points of movement speed (the "Running" power). So, you can easily be anything without (a) having a free form game system like FUDGE or BESM where the GM has to decide what you can and can't do or (b) having an uptight "calculate every single cost of everything you could possibly be" system like Champions.

    Likewise, changing into animals is easy. You get exactly the stats the animal has, plus a small bonus.

    Likewise, removing someone's powers is easy. You make a normal attack and "damage" the power. And if you steal powers (like Rogue or Parasite), the amount that you damaged that power is equal to the amount of power you get to use now.

    And of all these things happen with no (or little) arithmetic.

    I generally judge a superhero game system by how well or poorly it handles certain hard-to-model powers like shape-changing, power neutralization/copying, and "do anything" powers like Sorcery.
    '
    Now, my impression of M&M (it's been a while since I've looked at it) is that it did copy some of these good qualities from DCH RPG. But why not use the game system that originated these good ideas without having the unnecessary clunkiness of an almost-d20-system?

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky4u2 View Post
    Aberrant:

    I do have these books. I saw them the other day. What are the tergen splatbook and year 1 book if I may ask?

    ...snip...

    YOU ARE ALL AWESOME!

    Ducky4u2 (No I didn't almost type my teacher signature on a public forum... you can't prove anything...)
    The Teragen book covers the settings equivalent of Magneto and his brotherhood. It's the badguys. And their leader is The Most Powerful super on the planet. So the book goes some more into the upper levels of power.
    The Players Guide, and the Aberrant Year One book expand on powers and options, particularly merits and flaws. The players guide also has a good bit about gadgeteer type characters, if I remember rightly.

    Easy to find for sale on google in pdf form.
    "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter."
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by the game feeling Golden Age. To me, Golden Age comics are where heroes first began, but they are super-weak compared to modern characters. A lot of the Justice Society consisted of people who are just really good at punching. And even the Golden Age Green Lantern spends most of his time punching people rather than using his ring. I mean, yeah, there are outliers, like Doctor Fate and the Spectre, but even the Spectre hardly ever did anything cosmic during his Golden Age stories. Is that what you meant by Golden Age? Because the DC Heroes game is not at all like that.
    ... You know what? Fair point. I guess when I think golden age, I am thinking of golden age superman, where he would punch, but was also night invulnerable save for a small glowing green rock, it is what I think about when I think about the flat, boring superhero that was more titan than human. I always like to double check my information when someone says I might be mistaken and I was mistaken. Golden age seems to be more concerned with pulp adventure style writing. I stand corrected and bow to your wisdom. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    BTW, if you're looking at DC Heroes, make sure to be aware of the edition. The 1st edition uses pre-Crisis (Silver/Bronze Age) power levels, so you have the Superman who can juggle planets and every other hero is calibrated relative to his power level. The 2nd and 3rd editions use more Modern power levels. Those are the editions that are worth looking at.
    Thank you for this insight. I appreciate it when there are multiple editions. Like I said, I prefer M&M 2nd to 3rd, so knowing the difference in editions is key.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    One of the weaknesses people often cite for the DCH RPG (that I don't completely agree with) is that it has difficulty differentiating between ordinary people like Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane. But... if you're playing a superhero game, my opinion is that you need to focus on being able to mimic the superheroics, not worry endlessly about the travails of ordinary people. But it can definitely handle the crazy wackiness of the Silver Age power levels.
    Meh... this I am not too worried about, because I am making them heroes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    Well, suppose you want to turn into "anything" (any object of any shape), the way that the Metal Men and Plastic Man can. No problem, that's just "Self Manipulation". You have X points to split among the stats you need to be that object. You don't have to worry about how much DEX, STR, etc cost in the normal sense. You just go, okay, I'll be a crane with 10 points of strength, or a car with 5 points of strength and 6 points of movement speed (the "Running" power). So, you can easily be anything without (a) having a free form game system like FUDGE or BESM where the GM has to decide what you can and can't do or (b) having an uptight "calculate every single cost of everything you could possibly be" system like Champions.

    Likewise, changing into animals is easy. You get exactly the stats the animal has, plus a small bonus.

    Likewise, removing someone's powers is easy. You make a normal attack and "damage" the power. And if you steal powers (like Rogue or Parasite), the amount that you damaged that power is equal to the amount of power you get to use now.
    Ok, I think I get it now. THANK YOU!! You're awesome!

    Ducky 4u2

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Superhero RPGs Advice, Plot for Campaign and Setting Included

    Quote Originally Posted by aglondier View Post
    The Teragen book covers the settings equivalent of Magneto and his brotherhood. It's the badguys. And their leader is The Most Powerful super on the planet. So the book goes some more into the upper levels of power.
    The Players Guide, and the Aberrant Year One book expand on powers and options, particularly merits and flaws. The players guide also has a good bit about gadgeteer type characters, if I remember rightly.

    Easy to find for sale on google in pdf form.
    Sweeeet! Ok, so I have two solid options in this case. DCH and Aberrant. Thank you for the clarification!

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