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2020-11-01, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
I challenge you to a children's card game!
Originally Posted by Wynfrith d'AckerKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
If the people stare/then the people stare
Originally Posted by DanielleLast edited by The Viscount; 2020-11-01 at 07:30 PM.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Sources in a separate post due to length.
Originally Posted by DanielleKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
You may not call her auntie.
Originally Posted by Bhedana BharuKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Milo Minderbinder, eat your heart out.
Originally Posted by Dukat d'CannithKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Air Bud rules, the best kind of rules
Originally Posted by WolfgangKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
He has wares, if you have coin.
Originally Posted by PeribsenKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
If time is money, and all you've got is time...
Originally Posted by Morgan StanleyLast edited by The Viscount; 2020-11-03 at 12:36 AM.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Dennis's lesser-known cousin
Originally Posted by TerranceKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Thief Mike just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Originally Posted by Killer MikeKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
And that's our entries for this round. Judges, do your stuff!
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
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- Karrnath
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2020-11-01, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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- Jerusalem
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Wow, lots of entries. I'll get to reading tomorrow evening.
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2020-11-01, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
All of these builds working together as bad guys would be a ridiculous intrigue campaign.
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2020-11-01, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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- Colorado, USA
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
completely ran out of time, went to ask for extension, and they're up already. no worries.
my initial build was half daelkyr martial rogue 6/mammon 4/jaunter 4/mammon +6. with planar rogue at 6th.
after that I had an idea for a psionic entry, but never even got that off the ground.
have to dig into these more later.
Originally Posted by Peelee
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2020-11-01, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Wow. Looking forward to reading these carefully. So many things I did not expect (two nar demonbinders!)
I was playing with psychic rogue5/Hoardstealer 4/DoM +7/inquisitor1/ DoM +3
Starting with Psychic rogue 5 to get the dimensional pocket ability (small weightless invisible pouch in your hand) to steal things well, and eventually work with the telekinesis
Then hoardstealer, for the 3rd level ability to turn that dimensional pocket (among others) into a full bag of holding. Then I could hide many dragonhoard valuables into my hand and disappear them. (And eventually use the steal ability to telekinetically Hoover them into that invisible weightless pocket).
And hoardstealer 4 gives treasure dowsing to help find that treasure.
Inquisitor 1 gives you the ability to add your ranks in concentration to an intelligence check (like the DoM appraise check you use to enhance the value of the valuable you steal).
That was the main parts of the build. Also using the summoning ability to distract and deal with guards or dragons when I get caught stealing and need to hide and sneak away.
I didn’t find a way to get much power, though. Nor did I figure out much of the skills and feats, apart from intending to maximize appraise, keeping concentration high (to add extra enhanced value to stolen items) and devoting the rest to sneaking and burgling skills.
I also had a bad joke in mind about having been caught by a dragon stealing its treasure, and kept as a prisoner. Betraying my burgling partner to become a prisoner/slave instead of being eaten.
Using Hoardstealer’s ability to make any “container” into a bag of holding to survive the dragon’s attempt to engage in a humiliating and disgusting sexual ritual. (Hopefully ‘nuff said.)
Branching into DoM as a way of getting more good at stealing dragonhoards as revenge.
I really have not had time to write all that up. And I figured maximizing the ability to steal things and enhance their value would be a common tactic.
From my brief look at the submitted builds, y’all went in some very unexpected directions.Spoiler: Avatar & Iron Chef AwardsAwesome Dragonfire Bard Avatar by Oneris. A detailed version is here.
Iron Chef awards:
IC C Swiftblade: Honorable Mention for Pahika Kanikani, the Wardancer
IC CII Blade Dancer: Silver for Hu Tiaowu, the Jungle Guardian
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2020-11-01, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Hoardstealer's an interesting complement to the SI. I hadn't thought of that. Interesting synergies outlined in your sample build, but paying all those taxes would've been a pain.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2020-11-01, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
My discarded idea, which I still absolutely love, was to find a way to get an intelligent and Good animal companion, convince it to take Ancestral Relic and let me use the relic, and then use Disciple of Mammon's enhance value ability to enhance the value of all the nonmagical loot I came across to feed into Ancestral Relic to improve it. Ideally it would be a mounted build as well, because divert attack to divert an attack to my mount and then Mounted Combat to negate the attack with a ride check seemed really cool.
I scoured lots and lots of places trying to find a legit way to get a Good animal companion, and only found one: the Totem Companion feat, which includes unicorns on the list of available totems but is NOT alignment-locked. I ended up writing up an evil fangshields ranger, with the fluff that he pretended to be a good guy, tricked his way into the fangshields and convinced a unicorn that they were fighting in the service of good - all while secretly furthering the cause of Mammon and bogarting the unicorn's magical family heirloom.
The final build looked like this:
Unseelie Fey Human, Rogue 2/Ranger 4/Beastmaster 4/Disciple of Mammon 10
1 Martial Rogue1- Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Able Learner, Disciple of Darknessvile
2 Martial Rogue2- Power Attack, Unseelie Court Noble Kelirfey
3 Ranger1- Track, Skill Focus (handle animal)
4 Ranger2- (fighting style feat)
5 Ranger3- Endurance, Blessing of the Godlessvile
6 Ranger4- Beast Totem
7 Beastmaster1-
8 Beastmaster2- Alertness
9 Disciple of Mammon1- Natural Bond
10 Disciple of Mammon2- Apostatevile
11 Disciple of Mammon3-
12 Disciple of Mammon4- Totem Companion
13 Disciple of Mammon5-
14 Disciple of Mammon6-
15 Disciple of Mammon7- Spirited Charge, Hellbound Knightvile
16 Disciple of Mammon8-
17 Disciple of Mammon9-
18 Disciple of Mammon10- Wanderer’s Diplomacy
19 Beastmaster3-
20 Beastmaster4- Evil’s Blessingvile
I still love the fluff, and it used three of the more interesting aspects of the secret ingredient really well (the lying abilities, divert attack and enhance value), but I was annoyed that I couldn't really get some of the other cool aspects like the telekinetic theft to do anything interesting. Unfortunately the huge number of feats and levels required to have an animal companion of level 12 (enough to get a unicorn and advance it at least 2HD, so that it would pick up a bonus feat) kinda locked me in for other options. Even with dipping martial rogue and going with Elder Evil devotion, I just barely managed to squeak everything in on time. In the end, I decided to go in a different direction and didn't have the energy to do two builds. Still, this was a fun concept and I'm a bit sad I couldn't quite end with a final version that I loved.Optimization Showcase in the Playground
Former projects:
Shadowcaster Handbook
Archer Build Compendium
Iron Chef Awards!
Spoiler
GOLD
IC LXXVI: Talos
IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
IC XLV: Dead Mists
IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
IC XXXIX: AM-1468
IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
IC XXX: Jal Filius
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2020-11-01, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
- Wynfrith d'Acker: NE Human Warblade 5/Disciple of Mammon 10/Master of the Unseen Hand 5
- Danielle: LE Silverbrow Human Human Paragon 1/Totemist 2/Human Paragon +2/Chameleon 2/Disciple of Mammon 10/Chameleon +3
- Bhedana Bharu: LE Vriscika Human Ranger 2/OA Samurai (Kshatriya) 2/Disciple of Mammon 10/Fighter 2/Swordsage 4
- Dukat d'Cannith: LE Human Artificer 6/Binder 1/Disciple of Mammon 10/Cannith Wand Adept 3
- Wolfgang: LE Frostblood Half Orc Xorvintaal Exarch Ranger 3/Red Dragon Shaman 3/Menacing Brute 2/Disciple of Mammon 10
- Peribsen: LE Catfolk Passive Way Monk 7/Disciple of Mammon 5/Swordsage 1/Marshal 1/Disciple of Mammon +5
- Morgan Stanley: LE Necropolitan Human Duskblade 2/Swashbuckler 1/Battledancer 1/Disciple of Mammon 7/Ur-Priest 4/Nar Demonbinder 1/Mystic Theurge 4
- Terrance 'The Menace': CE Changeling Rogue 2/Battle Dancer 1/Jester 7/Disciple of Mammon 10
- Killer Mike: NE Strongheart Halfling Savant 1/Duskblade 4 /Nosomatic Chirurgeon 1/Disciple of Mammon 5/Nar Demonbinder 4 /Nosomatic Chirurgeon +4/Savant 1
Last edited by Thurbane; 2020-11-03 at 03:40 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2020-11-01, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Since Hoardstealer was an Iron Chef SI not too long ago, I thought of it as one that many who follow IC would have thought of as low hanging fruit, and so not original enough to bother with.
I’m surprised not to see an inquisitor dip for the +concentration to Improve Value appraise checks, too. Plus the ability to gather information about treasure, etc. seemed easy to make thematically consistent.Spoiler: Avatar & Iron Chef AwardsAwesome Dragonfire Bard Avatar by Oneris. A detailed version is here.
Iron Chef awards:
IC C Swiftblade: Honorable Mention for Pahika Kanikani, the Wardancer
IC CII Blade Dancer: Silver for Hu Tiaowu, the Jungle Guardian
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2020-11-01, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
I'll admit I completely forget about Dragonlance Campaign Setting most competitions, probably because I don't have the book. You don't really see stuff from it very often in IC, so maybe not that many chefs have it.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2020-11-01, 09:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
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2020-11-01, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Iron Chef Medals
SpoilerSir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L
Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII
Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII
Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII
Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII
Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX
The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI
Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV
Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV
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2020-11-01, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
I figured Psychic rogue 5 with a decent int would cover it well (all skills are in-class). It is steep, though. If you needed more skills you could take Hoardstealer later, after some DoM. I just liked the joke of using Hoardstealer’s ability to make a container into a bag of holding, in order to survive the humiliating sexual ritual (with a dragon) prerequisite for DoM. That’s putting comedy above practicality, which has bitten me before, though.
Plus there a few psionic abilities that would help a depraved thief. Psychic rogue 5 knows 4 powers and has 6pp to use per day.
Dimensional pocket would be key to stealing and instantly hiding things. Spending 4pp on it makes it last all day.
Cloud Mind makes the target unaware of your presence. That’s gold.
Far hand would also help until you got telekinesis.
Conceal thoughts could be useful for bluffing you way out of tricky situationsLast edited by Hiro Quester; 2020-11-02 at 12:16 AM. Reason: Added duration
Spoiler: Avatar & Iron Chef AwardsAwesome Dragonfire Bard Avatar by Oneris. A detailed version is here.
Iron Chef awards:
IC C Swiftblade: Honorable Mention for Pahika Kanikani, the Wardancer
IC CII Blade Dancer: Silver for Hu Tiaowu, the Jungle Guardian
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2020-11-02, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
I had a second build stub focused on redirecting attacks, with maneuvers, Elusive Target, Spell Reflection, Live My Nightmare (for when people use detect thoughts against you), Word Given Form/Temerad Mastery I, and so on. Unfortunately, getting into Master of Nine is really feat-intensive, and the build just didn't do that much with Disciple of Mammon.
Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2020-11-02 at 12:00 PM.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2020-11-02, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Iron Chef Medals
SpoilerSir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L
Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII
Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII
Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII
Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII
Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX
The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI
Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV
Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV
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2020-11-02, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
I am too, to be honest. Perhaps the chefs found it too hard to qualify as a crusader and thought ways to get in (feats, dips, etc) slowed down maneuver progression too much?
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2020-11-02, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
You mean, redirecting attacks to force an opponent to attack someone else and provoke? I hadn't even thought of that. It's a cool trick, but runs into the usage limit on Divert Attack really quickly. Three uses a day is very limiting once you have the tools to force attacks to hit you.
Edit: Elusive Target does not have a usage restriction, and Defensive Rebuke doesn't say your opponent has to attack an ally, so... crusader with Combat Reflexes, Elusive Target, and Temerad Mastery (gives you two Dodge targets) or Might of the Hand (WIS mod Dodge targets). Any time you redirect an attack, you get to punish the enemy with an AoO as well.
It is hard to qualify as crusader, and some of the classic redirecting maneuvers (Manticore Parry, Scorpion Parry) aren't available to crusaders. And getting a crusader into Master of Nine is... trying.
My stub was spellthief 2/monk 2/swordsage 2/disciple of mammon 10/master of nine 4 (weaving the Mo9 levels into the DoM levels), but that fails to qualify for DoM on account of the base attack requirement. I usually use fractional bab when building, and with that you do qualify, but that is not allowed in this competition.
Going with the "thief" aspect of DoM, spellthief 2 lets you steal active buff effects, which are not limited by spellthief level the way stolen spells are. You can even steal the devil summons' fly and unholy aura buffs. But with trickster spellthief unavailable and Disciple of Mammon without casting, pure spellthief didn't do as much as I'd have liked.
All in all, the build ended up being better without the SI, which is usually a sign you have to stop building and think of something else .Last edited by ExLibrisMortis; 2020-11-02 at 03:11 PM.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2020-11-02, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
I think the class would have benefited from damnation points per encounter spent & regained like factotum's inspiration rather than per day limits. Maybe 2 per class level. 1 point for steal, 4 for divert attack, 5 and 10 for the summons.
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2020-11-02, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVI
Or just let us do the cool stuff at will (except maybe the summons.)
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition