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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Drelua's Avatar

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    Default [PFS] Frogger build, 5 Foot Stepping All Over the Place

    So a few years ago at a convention, I got a boon that lets me play a grippli. (little frog man) They get plusses to WIS and DEX, so naturally I thought monk, probably unchained for flying kick; moving your fast movement bonus as part of a flurry is a really good ability, plus the full BAB helps with prereqs. Not to mention really funny to me imagining a 30 pound frog launching itself across a battlefield into someone's chest. The problem I'm running into is getting all the feats in time to actually use them before hitting the level cap of 11 for regular PFS play. I made a thread about this feat combo a couple years ago, but now I'm trying to work out an actual build.

    So, feats I want to take, with feat chains grouped together and noteworthy prereqs in brackets:

    Step Up
    Following Step
    Step Up and Strike (BAB 6)

    Outslug Style (INT 13, Combat Expertise or Brawler's Cunning, Weapon Focus)
    Outslug Weave (As Above plus Lunge)
    Outslug Sprint (No new prereqs)

    Lunge (BAB +6)

    So, with all these feats I can move 10' for a five foot step, use Lunge without penalty, and move 15' with following step. Still bounded to the person I'm following with step up, but fun for setting up flanking and blocking escape by hopping around them. Unchained monk is unfortunately limited on archetype selection, and since this isn't for a home game 'ask you DM' isn't an option. Sage Counselor archetype gets me Combat Expertise and the ability to ignore INT 13 prereqs though. Brawler would do the same, but fitting in another class is a bit awkward with the build I'm looking at now. Considering 2 or 3 levels of fighter, maybe Brawler or Weapon Master for weapon training at level 3. That can get me a couple feats as soon as I qualify. Master of Many Styles might work with Unchained? Some sources say it does, but that only gets me Outslug Style without prereqs. Official rule is that Outslug Style is a style feat, but Outslug Weave and Sprint aren't.

    The problem is that there's 2 feats that require 6 BAB, and I need one of them, Lunge, before I can take my second style feat. With PFS's level cap of 11, that means I'll only have my full feat combo working for the last few levels. So, if anyone has any ideas for how to get these feats early, that would be great. Assume Step Up and Strike is less of a priority than it should be, taking the Outslug feats ASAP. Not trying to optimize this character since PFS is a pretty low-op environment, just trying to hop around like, well, a frog.

    Here's my favourite of the builds I've come up with so far:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Unchained Monk 5/Fighter 3/Monk for the rest.

    Feats:
    Level 1 - Combat Expertise, (Monk Bonus) Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
    2 - Improved Feint (Monk Bonus. Useless, but unfortunately set by the archetype)
    3 - Outslug Style
    5 - Step Up (And flying kick as my style strike)
    6 - Lunge (Fighter)
    7 - Outslug Weave, Outslug Sprint (Fighter)
    9 - Following Step, Greater Feint (Monk)
    11 - Step Up and Strike

    Getting Following Step and Step Up and Strike that late isn't ideal but this is the earliest I can get those style feats. Maybe a 4th Fighter level for Following Step and Step Up and Strike both at level 9?


    So, short version; looking for ways to get these feats early, or other feats that work with this concept. Lunge is the real sticking point, so if there's a way around the 6 BAB prereq that would help. Even if it's not PFS legal, I'd be interested to see other things that interact with this build. Thanks for reading a somewhat long post if you made it this far, even if you skipped ahead like I probably would.
    Last edited by Drelua; 2020-10-17 at 08:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronikoce View Post
    If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to hold it for me you wouldn't say they were wielding the candlestick. If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to club an intruder to death you would say they were wielding the candlestick. The act of using the held item for a purpose such as intruder clubbing changes the word that ought to be used.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PFS] Frogger build, 5 Foot Stepping All Over the Place

    One level of Pelagic Hunter can get you Lunge without its prereqs, does that help?
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Drelua's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PFS] Frogger build, 5 Foot Stepping All Over the Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    One level of Pelagic Hunter can get you Lunge without its prereqs, does that help?
    Yes, that does help. Bonus points fluff-wise, the archetype does fit for a frog. It only gives Lunge while animal focus is active, but I just noticed I can just not get an animal companion and keep my animal focus up all the time, so it doesn't really matter I guess. Anyway, if I delay Step Up to level 7 I can get it working by level 5. Plus the spells are useful, gets lead blades and a bunch of other good spells for wands. Thanks, I might not have ever found that archetype.

    Spoiler: Current Build
    Show
    Unchained Monk (Sage Counselor) 2/Fighter 1/Pelagic Hunter 1/Fighter 1/Monk +3/Fighter +2
    Level 1 - Combat Expertise, (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse (forgot I need this to be able to hit anything)
    3 -Weapon Focus (unarmed) (Fighter), Outslug Style
    5 - Outslug Weave, Outslug Sprint (Fighter)
    7 - Step Up
    9 - Following Step
    10 - Step Up and Strike (Fighter)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronikoce View Post
    If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to hold it for me you wouldn't say they were wielding the candlestick. If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to club an intruder to death you would say they were wielding the candlestick. The act of using the held item for a purpose such as intruder clubbing changes the word that ought to be used.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PFS] Frogger build, 5 Foot Stepping All Over the Place

    I'd go for monk 2/Fighter 2/Pelagic Hunter 7. Hunter spells are probably better than anything you'd get from fighter 3-4, and with sufficient reach and 10'-foot steps you don't really need pounce.

    For instance, pick up Divine Hunter and at level 3 go for the growth domain. Swift action = mega-frog!
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2020-10-18 at 04:21 PM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Drelua's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PFS] Frogger build, 5 Foot Stepping All Over the Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    I'd go for monk 2/Fighter 2/Pelagic Hunter 7. Hunter spells are probably better than anything you'd get from fighter 3-4, and with sufficient reach and 10'-foot steps you don't really need pounce.

    For instance, pick up Divine Hunter and at level 3 go for the growth domain. Swift action = mega-frog!
    I was looking at divine hunter, but I was thinking travel domain. The fast movement's nice but the ignoring difficult terrain would be great since that really shuts Outslug Style down. Growth does sound good though, and getting some druid buffs would be nice. I guess I can wait until I have a decent amount of animal aspect to get an animal companion, once I have like 3 or 4 minutes that should cover every combat. Would have to take boon companion, the aquatic restriction's a bit of a problem in most scenarios though. Unless I get like a giant crab and a portable hole or something filled with water for it to swim in.

    Main reason for fighter 3 was weapon training, could take weapon master and get gloves of dueling for +3. 4 was just a feat, could drop that. Hunter might be better (things with spells usually are) but I might keep this character as a monk mainly. Flying kick is fun and it does help against flying enemies, there's no rule saying you have to move horizontally so I could just shoot myself straight up at them. Worth eating the fall damage sometimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronikoce View Post
    If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to hold it for me you wouldn't say they were wielding the candlestick. If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to club an intruder to death you would say they were wielding the candlestick. The act of using the held item for a purpose such as intruder clubbing changes the word that ought to be used.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PFS] Frogger build, 5 Foot Stepping All Over the Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Drelua View Post
    Main reason for fighter 3 was weapon training, could take weapon master and get gloves of dueling for +3.
    That's a good point, but look at the price of those things... given the other gear you probably want (e.g. magic weapon/armor/cloak/belt/headband), I never end up with anything costing over 10,000 gp during my eleven-level PFS career.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
    Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Drelua's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PFS] Frogger build, 5 Foot Stepping All Over the Place

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    That's a good point, but look at the price of those things... given the other gear you probably want (e.g. magic weapon/armor/cloak/belt/headband), I never end up with anything costing over 10,000 gp during my eleven-level PFS career.
    True, I did buy them with another character at level 9, but that's still not many sessions left. I could just hold off on that 3rd fighter level until I can afford the gloves. Might be better off with Brawler, (the fighter archetype) technically they don't get weapon training so no gloves of dueling but they get 2 more damage. If it's a choice between Brawler and Weapon Master, then the gloves are just +2 to hit, so maybe not worth it. Plus the weapon master's bonuses to disarm and sunder don't exactly help me very much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronikoce View Post
    If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to hold it for me you wouldn't say they were wielding the candlestick. If I handed someone a candlestick and asked them to club an intruder to death you would say they were wielding the candlestick. The act of using the held item for a purpose such as intruder clubbing changes the word that ought to be used.

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