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2020-10-18, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
What do you guys think about this change to Thief? I always found him to be a lackluster sub-class for Rogue, with Arcane Trickster being the clear winner, but this change is incredible: Fast Hands simply gives you an additional Bonus Action per turn.
I do worry that it might be a bit too strong, but considering the number of combat options and damage Arcane Trickster gives the Rogue I think this might be balanced.
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2020-10-18, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Finland
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
I personally found Thief one of the best non-caster classes in the game simply on the back of Fast Hands and Use Magic Device. Fast Hands opens up so much stuff you can't normally do. But I can see this being a nice increase in power; probably more something needed than something broken. In general, I think non-casters should get access to better action economy and just more actions to remain comparatively interesting with casters, and this fits that mold just fine.
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2020-10-18, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
Yes, the feature becomes extremely potent in conjunction with UMD. But statistically, most campaigns don't make it to level 13, so Thief remains the worst Rogue for most players.
EDIT: My bad, it seems you can't use a magic device as a part of the Use an Object action. Still, UMD is really strong, but Fast Hands doesn't come close to the power level of 1/3 casting and Booming Blade on a Rogue.Last edited by bendking; 2020-10-18 at 01:49 AM.
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2020-10-18, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Finland
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
Of course not; nothing competes with casting in this game. But Thief with e.g. Healer is still pretty cool and if you get creative with Fast Hands, you can do a very good "badass mundane" impression. It's one of the few ways mundanes have to do cool stuff casters don't have access to. Compared to e.g. Assassin or Mastermind or Swashbuckler, I'd prefer the Thief. Of course, casting is bull**** so ultimately Arcane Trickster reigns supreme but among the mundanes, Thief is pretty decent.
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2020-10-18, 01:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- Waterdeep
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
Sounds like my first character is definitely going to be a rogue/ranger MC, it just gets better and better
Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
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2020-10-18, 02:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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2020-10-18, 02:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Finland
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
Oh, I completely agree, I wish it were that way: I wish all classes kept getting cool stuff throughout the levels so that a high level anything would be approximately similar in terms of having powerful stuff nobody else can really do, and enough different good stuff to keep all the classes interesting. My analysis was merely of how it is right now.
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2020-10-18, 03:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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2020-10-18, 03:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2018
- Location
- USA, Wisconsin
Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
If Fast Hands enables you to do the same item interaction stuff as a bonus action on top of giving you a bonus one, that does sound neat. That would enable you to do stuff like poison a weapon, attack, and then back away from an enemy without repercussion. Or you could make your regular attack and your bonus action off hand attack and still get away with disengage.
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2020-10-18, 07:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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2020-10-18, 07:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2018
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- USA, Wisconsin
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2020-10-18, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
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2020-10-18, 07:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
Yes, and most object interactions are bonus actions by default.
Another thing to note, off hand attacks are not reliant on having used your action to attack and you can do it twice as a thief.
The only bummer is that sneak attack is a special action so neither your off hand or opportunity attack proc it.Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2020-10-18 at 07:41 AM.
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2020-10-18, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2019
Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
Fast Hands isn't just just Use an Object though, so they made it more powerful but stripped away the... Thiefyness of it? Unless you can do things like pick locks as a bonus action.
The not needing to make a main attack definitely makes it more powerful (though Sneak Attack seems to be a balance). So you could off hand attack twice and main action dodge?For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge
Feel free to message for any build requests or challenges
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2020-10-18, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2020-10-18, 09:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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2020-10-18, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2018
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- USA, Wisconsin
Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
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2020-10-18, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
From what I have read, the Shove Attack option in BG3 is a Bonus Action instead of an Attack replacement. So a BG3 can effectively solo Sneak Attack by getting two Shove Attempts and One Attack per round ?
Place Expertise in Athletics.....and you can Jump/Shove your way through the game.
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2020-10-18, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
No dodge action actually, one of my few major complaints
light weapons gain advantage when attacking from behind, you're able to solo sneak attack so long as you attack then from behind and don't have disadvantage.
From ranged attacks, you can gain sneak attack from high ground, again as long as you don't have disadvantage.Last edited by ProsecutorGodot; 2020-10-18 at 09:53 AM.
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2020-10-18, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
I gotta say, this sounds a bit too powerful. If it were mostly Rogues that use Light Weapons I could get behind that, but this seems a pretty big incentive for almost all classes to use light weapons over regular weapons as long as they're using 1-handed weapons.
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2020-10-19, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Baldur's Gate 3's Fast Hands (Thief) Is Awesome
With TWF you can sneak attack, offhand attack, offhand attack. You can't dash twice for some reason but you can do pretty much any other bonus action twice.
I think that the fact that expertise isn't in the game (yet?) and that you can only sneak attack with your main hand attack makes rogue overall worse relative to 5e, but if those two things change when the game leaves early access rogue will probably have better DPS in tier 1 play compared to regular 5e.
As an aside this makes the Dual Wielder feat actually worthwhile IMO. A lvl 4 rogue can sneak attack with a rapier and then do two offhand strikes with a rapier with the dual wielder feat.Last edited by verbatim; 2020-10-19 at 12:36 PM.