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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    The end-sprint in the capital was by far the worst for me, simply from the over-abundance of Hunt Archers spamming their death-arrows. I basically had Valerie soloing everything, slowly grinding down enemies one by one with an unbeatable AC and Missile Shield.

    The Bloom flower would have infuriated me if I wasnt already using a guide to solve it, most likely - I knew there was a secret ending that was absurdly complicated to complete, plus the secret romance that was the obvious perfect fit for my MC.
    The Death Arrows actually didn't cause me too much trouble, my saves were pretty high across the board. My biggest issue with the hunters until I learned to just always keep freedom of movement up on everyone at all times was the paralysis gaze. Free action save or be paralyzed, once per round for every hunter on the field is just ridiculous. Even then their constant fear effects rendered my animal companion basically permanently useless while they were around. In general yeah the Wild Hunt was just a particularly annoying mob type, and was about 3/4ths of the encounters in the last chapter or so.

    Meanwhile a lot of the encounters that were intended to be the toughest went down like chumps. Ithuliak? They gave me a suprise round against him, he was dead without even a chance to take an action. Vordakai? Out like a chump. The Jabberwock? Ate a critical Polar Ray for 800 damage and died in one shot. The hidden Lich dude (who I am still disappointed did not have a Phylactery)? Super insta-dead.

    By comparison, Armag actually got to act and took out a character in his initial charge, so I count him as one of the better bosses. Same for the Stag Lord, given the level you fight him at, his superior initial positioning and support, he's a tough fight worthy of founding a kingdom on. Irovetti was at least interesting in that he had a second phase and summoned in the big snake monster to defend him (and as far as I know that monster's model was never used anywhere else, as opposed to the Jabberwock which is supposed to be legendarily unique but you fight like 6 of them).

    The Lantern King was actually fantastic, being a 4 phase fight. When the first phase started and I saw his stat block as just Outside10/Monk20 though, I broke down laughing. Because if that had actually been the end fight, just a souped up monk with nothing else, it would have been the ultimate anticlimax.


    I will say that the resolution for companion quests actively pissed me off. I wasn't following a specific guide, but I was googling practically every major decision point to make sure I was on the right track. Despite that I still managed to lose 2 rescuable companions. The fact that you can mess up like that with no real warning and lose a character permanently is the absolute worst. And of course there's the one companion you can't rescue no matter what, and I swear if they don't show up again in Wrath of the Righteous I am going to be a very sad person.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Sorry I'm in kind of a reflective mood, I just beat the game earlier today, with the secret ending. Which in case anyone else happens to read this and is on the fence as to whether to do it or not: Absolutely it is worth doing. I went in expecting a secret boss then roll credits. What I got was effectively an entirely extra bonus chapter, a lot of extra content and story that is all top notch
    Not all of those are part of the secret ending. Huge spoilers follow.
    Spoiler: All the game's endings
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    There are three ways to deal with Nyrissa: 1) Fight, defeat, and spare her 2) Kill her or 3) Convince her to work with you against the Lantern King.

    The first is what the Lantern King meant to happen. Her fallen kingdom is the last grain of the Apology and they all leave for the First World. The ending splits into two, depending on whether you gave the ancient elven crown to Shyka the Many. If you gave it to Pharasma or kept it yourself, Nyrissa drinks from the Apology, becomes an Eldest, and the Lantern King is extremely happy at it all turning out just as planned. If you did give it to Shyka, he sends the elven king back in time to prevent his kingdom from falling, Nyrissa's Apology comes up one grain short, and the Lantern King's game is spoiled by his fellow Eldest. In either case, the game ends there and then. This is the only way to miss out on the true last chapter.

    If you kill Nyrissa, the Lantern King is rather cross at you having broken his toy. He invokes the curse on you and your kingdom and you move to the bonus chapter with all the villains you fought and most of the people you helped returning. When you fight him, he offers you immortality in an attempt to take back control of this play. If you accept, the game ends and surprisingly nothing goes wrong in the epilogue. (and you get a capital E-Evil variation with Jaethal if you did her personal quest in a specific way) If you refuse, you defeat and banish him, but as he is an immortal quasi-deity this is a temporary setback at best.

    And you can convince Nyrissa to help you without romancing her. In that case she refuses the Briar and she remains broken and despairing. The Lantern King captures her almost immediately and the last chapter plays almost the same as if you'd killed her. The only difference is the epilogue, with Nyrissa and the Lantern King locked in eternal combat in the First World.

    Now if you do romance her, what changes is that she accepts the Briar from you. With her soul whole again she has the strength to resist the Lantern King's attempt to capture her, and is hopeful enough to figure out a way to put him away for good. When you confront him she turns his curse back at him and so his defeat has more permanent consequences. He is either gone for good, or his power is so much diminished that he can never be a threat again. You marry her, your kingdom becomes weird, roll credits.

    Yeah, I liked the game enough to see them all. I just wish it was possible, even if difficult, to convince Nyrissa to accept her heart back and help me deal with the Lantern King permanently without having to romance her. This happening with the King marrying the tieflings would have been my ideal ending.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I will say that the resolution for companion quests actively pissed me off. I wasn't following a specific guide, but I was googling practically every major decision point to make sure I was on the right track. Despite that I still managed to lose 2 rescuable companions. The fact that you can mess up like that with no real warning and lose a character permanently is the absolute worst. And of course there's the one companion you can't rescue no matter what, and I swear if they don't show up again in Wrath of the Righteous I am going to be a very sad person.
    Which one do you mean? I'm pretty sure I messed up at least the dwarf cleric's companion quest, but I never got far enough to see final resolutions on any of them.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Vordakai's Tomb was probably the best dungeon in the game. While it also featured by far the most unfair encounter in the game, it was also a totally optional encounter so I give it a pass for that (and it is still doable if you cheese it with spamming Death Ward before going into the fight).
    How is optional?
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    Which one do you mean? I'm pretty sure I messed up at least the dwarf cleric's companion quest, but I never got far enough to see final resolutions on any of them.
    Spoiler
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    So in the final chapter, Nyrissa kidnaps your entire party, and basically by default kills all of them.

    If you complete their companion quests correctly, they manage to survive one way or another and you find them in the final dungeon to rejoin your party.

    I went in knowing this. So I went in expecting Amiri was going to die, because I screwed up her companion quest back in the section dealing with Armag. She didn't actually die (probably because she's one of the iconics), but Nyrissa basically convinced her she was worthless and everyone around her dies, so when I found her she abandoned me. The epilogue specified we never saw her again.

    What really pissed me off was Jubilost. I actually completed his quest. I did the inconsequential debates. I solved the riddle. I went to the cave and met the mad gnome. And an Eldest rewarded me with a cure to bleaching. At this point I actually looked it up because you have several choices of what to do with it, and I picked the answer that is correct, I gave it to a random gnome suffering from bleaching. This should have saved Jubilost.

    What I was not aware of at the time, is the random gnome the cure gets given to is the one hanging out at the Menagerie making monsters for Irovetti. I think I had gone to the Menagerie before doing this quest, I remember him ranting about bleaching and being willing to do anything to stop it from happening, which is why he was working for Irovetti. Apparently if you do Jubilost's quest before this, he's open to talking and you can convince him to walk away. He later shows up with his two brothers in Irovetti's palace and causes a scene there. But basically this gnome getting the cure and surviving and you seeing it is what triggers Jubilost's good ending.

    So despite me making all of the right choices, going to the wrong zone first meant I officially completed the quest (got the green checkmark saying it was done and made the choice the guides said would save him) but he died because I didn't see the full resolution of it.


    Then the last one is Linzi. She is guaranteed to die at the end, there is no way to save her. She decides to play it a little too smart and tries to spy on Nyrissa, gets caught, and gets murderized for it. Her consciousness gets transfered into the book she had been writing throughout the game about your journey, so she is able to finish the book and lives on in spirit as a book on the shelf of your royal library.... but it doesn't change the fact that I lost my favorite member of the party as a member of the party, or that I feel like being a book is a horrible fate to be consigned to, possibly even worse than death, given even if you are a very popular book (which from the happy epilogue she gives at the end, she is at the time of your reading), eventually memory fades and that book will be lost or forgotten, stuck on a dusty shelf somewhere desperate for someone to pick it up again. It's very sad.

    Which is why I hope she shows up as the journal/book for the next game. Like the Storyteller or someone finds a way to let her transfer her consciousness from book to book, so she can keep experiencing new things with new people, and writing new stories. That to me would at least alleviate the super bleak future I am predicting for her based on how things ended officially


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    How is optional?
    In the tomb there's one area that is only accessible by a DC35 or something Athletics check. When you go through that there's a statue that you can loot for two rubies that are worth a fair bit of gold, but not needed for any quest or anything else. If you loot those rubies, it instantly spawns 6 high level enemies that spam level drain on you. 4 of them have a ranged attack that hits for 4 level drain, and the other two melee and deal 2 level drain with each hit.

    Basically the only way I was able to beat them was resting outside the room, refreshing spells to replace every 4th level slot I had on my cleric with Death Ward, cast all the death wards, then go in loot, and chop them up while immune to their shenanigans. Even then I didn't have enough slots to cover the whole party so I lost two members and had to res them, then rest again and use restoration on level drain. Not a fun encounter at all.

    I did hear afterwards that you may be able to loot the rubies without fighting them by using all of the blood draining altars around the dungeon, and the monster spawns are intended to be an instant death trap rather than an encounter you are intended to beat... but there's nothing that really indicates those are tied together so it never occurred to me to try it while I was there, so I can't verify.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2020-10-25 at 08:31 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    This is my second attempt - the first got bug-ruined and was unrecoverable. Bloom Flower was a breeze this time around. I think I just got super lucky and did everything right on the first go. Sepulchre is bad for the sheer boring work of it, otherwise it's fine - oh, and it's confusing because I simply cannot see the goddamned colors.

    House I've never seen yet, so that's something to look forward to =)

    Oh, and .. while in Sepulchre, I lost my paladin powers. I suppose there's an NG conversation choice with the barbarian at the start? So on top of everything, I got un-paladin'd. And had to install an editor to re-paladin. Bloody hassle =)

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    And had to install an editor to re-paladin. Bloody hassle =)
    One of the merchants in the capital sells scrolls of atonement that reset your alignment to your starting one.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    In the tomb there's one area that is only accessible by a DC35 or something Athletics check. When you go through that there's a statue that you can loot for two rubies that are worth a fair bit of gold, but not needed for any quest or anything else. If you loot those rubies, it instantly spawns 6 high level enemies that spam level drain on you. 4 of them have a ranged attack that hits for 4 level drain, and the other two melee and deal 2 level drain with each hit.


    AHHHH. I was talking about the Name-Eater one, or whatever it is.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    I beat the ruby fight after a little bit of reworking with only two death wards - on my main character (melee strength Alchemist) and Amiri. Just charged those two ahead and left the others near the entrance, so they all aggroed on the two main fighters. Then the rest of the party walloped on the ranged ones (who still targetted my main fighters). It was a tough fight, but not impossible.

    I also cheesed the one-on-one fight Amiri has with the head barbarian honcho with tons of potions. She still can't win and its down to dice rolls if it even works, but you get the Sister to interfere with the fight instead of just being defeated straight up.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    One of the merchants in the capital sells scrolls of atonement that reset your alignment to your starting one.
    Huh - really? Oh well. Now I have the editor, so .. a penny saved is a penny earned.

    So I finished the objectionable Sepulcher, found the thingies, waded through absolute piles of gore to the boss and lost my main healer for all my efforts. Goddammit!! Knew that would happen, of course, but still annoying. But now I near the point where the game went unwinnable last time. So exciting times. Pitax, here we come.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Spoiler
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    So in the final chapter, Nyrissa kidnaps your entire party, and basically by default kills all of them.

    If you complete their companion quests correctly, they manage to survive one way or another and you find them in the final dungeon to rejoin your party.

    I went in knowing this. So I went in expecting Amiri was going to die, because I screwed up her companion quest back in the section dealing with Armag. She didn't actually die (probably because she's one of the iconics), but Nyrissa basically convinced her she was worthless and everyone around her dies, so when I found her she abandoned me. The epilogue specified we never saw her again.

    What really pissed me off was Jubilost. I actually completed his quest. I did the inconsequential debates. I solved the riddle. I went to the cave and met the mad gnome. And an Eldest rewarded me with a cure to bleaching. At this point I actually looked it up because you have several choices of what to do with it, and I picked the answer that is correct, I gave it to a random gnome suffering from bleaching. This should have saved Jubilost.

    What I was not aware of at the time, is the random gnome the cure gets given to is the one hanging out at the Menagerie making monsters for Irovetti. I think I had gone to the Menagerie before doing this quest, I remember him ranting about bleaching and being willing to do anything to stop it from happening, which is why he was working for Irovetti. Apparently if you do Jubilost's quest before this, he's open to talking and you can convince him to walk away. He later shows up with his two brothers in Irovetti's palace and causes a scene there. But basically this gnome getting the cure and surviving and you seeing it is what triggers Jubilost's good ending.

    So despite me making all of the right choices, going to the wrong zone first meant I officially completed the quest (got the green checkmark saying it was done and made the choice the guides said would save him) but he died because I didn't see the full resolution of it.


    Then the last one is Linzi. She is guaranteed to die at the end, there is no way to save her. She decides to play it a little too smart and tries to spy on Nyrissa, gets caught, and gets murderized for it. Her consciousness gets transfered into the book she had been writing throughout the game about your journey, so she is able to finish the book and lives on in spirit as a book on the shelf of your royal library.... but it doesn't change the fact that I lost my favorite member of the party as a member of the party, or that I feel like being a book is a horrible fate to be consigned to, possibly even worse than death, given even if you are a very popular book (which from the happy epilogue she gives at the end, she is at the time of your reading), eventually memory fades and that book will be lost or forgotten, stuck on a dusty shelf somewhere desperate for someone to pick it up again. It's very sad.

    Which is why I hope she shows up as the journal/book for the next game. Like the Storyteller or someone finds a way to let her transfer her consciousness from book to book, so she can keep experiencing new things with new people, and writing new stories. That to me would at least alleviate the super bleak future I am predicting for her based on how things ended officially
    Spoiler: ending
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    Wild Hunt at the end really was jus poor level design, they were SO tedious.

    I somehow managed to miss all of the romances, not sure how, I was trying; I don't know even exactly what I did wrong with Nerissa (maybe I siad the wrong thing once or something?), and I think Octavia's sort of just petered out or something, since it just seemed to, like, stop. Still, I got Nerissa to help with the Lantern King, so I did pretty well on that front, and Linzi was the only character I lost.

    That, however, done so cheaply, infuriated me (especially since she was kind of integral to my party build, and it was almost more for that than on the character level.



    I was only mildly mollified that there were substitues I could get somewhere like, but I was not best pleased - as I pointed out when I went and did a full-on Bleakbane Rant on it on their forums, that little incident, far from being an immersive character moment that raised tension or something, so pulled me out of the game I spent and hour or two NOT PLAYING said game because of it. That's the exact opposite of the reaction they were going for.


    I think that Kingmaker leans a little to hard overall on the "if you don't follow a walkthrough, you miss stuff." And the kingdom level stuff just... Didn't really work. I never bothered to make more than the token amount of buildings, it wasn't worth it.



    That said, using the TBS mode (which is now a proper option) the combat was so much fun - I mean, frack's sake, my character was a Paladin/Rogue/Monk, I almost NEVER play a noncaster - that I unhesitatingly backed Wrath of the Righteous, and when I play Kingmaker again, I'll do an better job even than that.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2020-10-27 at 09:53 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    I made it through Act 1! It's a miracle lol. Anyway, I have a new problem. I can't rest. I'm stuck, exhausted, cant move on the map. when I try to rest, I push on the x button to begin rest (Xbox one console), and it doesn't work. Feels buggy, in that when I press the x button you can hear it 'click' but, it doesn't register. Any ideas?

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Nvm. Fixed it. It wouldn't load or anything. Had to take game out, start another game, then put PF back in...ty guys. See? Sometimes I just gotta talk it out, with myself...
    Last edited by Dmdork; 2020-10-31 at 12:38 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmdork View Post
    Had to take game out, start another game, then put PF back in...
    Always start with the standardized IT solution. Turn it off and back on again.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    I'm trying again (Johnny Lawrence the LN Monk!)- it just seems slow. Not the plot or anything- the actual loading time and mechanics of the game.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloanzilla View Post
    I'm trying again (Johnny Lawrence the LN Monk!)- it just seems slow. Not the plot or anything- the actual loading time and mechanics of the game.
    ...I object to Johnny Lawrence being Lawful Neutral. Like, even Cobra Kai Johnny Lawrence.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    I'm running through the game again (nearly beat it once), though this time with a Paladin/Bard (apparently you can make a Lawful Good Bard). I am having a BLAST. Using the Archaeologist and the Divine Guardian archetypes. Turned Valerie into a Kineticist (Fire/Water) and ... well, things are going well.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    I ditched all the NPCs and made a 5 person party of my own. Glad I did, this game is tuff and my guys created from scratch are more powerful....

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmdork View Post
    I ditched all the NPCs and made a 5 person party of my own. Glad I did, this game is tuff and my guys created from scratch are more powerful....
    My first time through the game, I did the same thing. I created an entire party built around "You don't get to hurt my party members". We all focused on long range and reach weapon combat. Four of them had animal companions. Two of them could quickly summon powerful minions. One of them had so many spell slots that we always had disposable summons.
    My team:
    Main: *Inquisitor (Monster Tactician) Animal Domain
    Second: *Cleric (Herald Caller) Animal Domain.
    Third: *Barbarian (Mad Dog) / Ranger (Freebooter)
    Fourth: Sylvan Sorcerer / Druid (Fey Speaker) / *Mystic Theurge
    Fifth: *Rogue (Eldritch Scoundrel) / Paladin (Divine Hunter) / Monk (Scaled Fist)
    Sixth: *Bard (Thundercaller)

    * = Main class, only slight deviations were made for dips (Yay, boon companion)
    Pretty much all of the class choices should be immediately obvious, except perhaps the Paladin dip for the Rogue. It was to get the ability to treat anyone in 10ft of the Paladin as having Precise Shot. That saved A LOT of feats. Ranged combat was only a secondary focus for most of the group.

    To be entirely honest, I am enjoying the game much more playing through it with the NPCs. The Tiefling Kineticist is an AMAZING asset.
    Last edited by Eldonauran; 2020-11-02 at 07:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Did they ever fix the issue with Kineticists being way too fragile?

    When I played, they were subtracting the burn damage from hit points instead of adding it as unhealable nonlethal damage, which meant my main character was at risk of dying a lot more than he should have been.

    Or is there a mod that fixes it?
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2020-11-02 at 11:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Did they ever fix the issue with Kineticists being way too fragile?
    Can't say I've noticed this issue. How often do you heavily burn your kineticist?

    When I played, they were subtracting the burn damage from hit points instead of adding it as unhealable nonlethal damage, which meant my main character was at risk of dying a lot more than he should have been.
    I think that just a feature of the game. Some rules had been changed to better "balance" the transition from tabletop to computer.
    Last edited by Eldonauran; 2020-11-03 at 01:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Did they ever fix the issue with Kineticists being way too fragile?
    Fragile? Kalikke had the highest HP total. I never felt the need to burn Con.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldonauran View Post
    Can't say I've noticed this issue. How often do you heavily burn your kineticist?

    I think that just a feature of the game. Some rules had been changed to better "balance" the transition from tabletop to computer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    Fragile? Kalikke had the highest HP total. I never felt the need to burn Con.
    It was on my main character, since I like playing the Kineticist class in tabletop Pathfinder. For full disclosure, he was a kinetic knight hydrokineticist, so he got into a lot of melee but was also able to heal at the cost of burn.

    I don't understand how you don't acquire burn, tho? You need to in order to use your stronger powers, or utility things like healing. Obviously you won't see the "burn causes fragility" issue if you don't take burn, but are you just not using anything that requires it? Are you then also not getting the bonuses that come online when you have some burn (I forget what the class feature is called)?

    Maybe I'm just salty because it means my character died when he wouldn't have in real Pathfinder, but I don't think it adds to balance but rather detracts from it. Personally, I think the fact that you can trigger death's door or die because you lowered your own hit points seems like an error.
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2020-11-03 at 08:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    It was on my main character, since I like playing the Kineticist class in tabletop Pathfinder. For full disclosure, he was a kinetic knight hydrokineticist, so he got into a lot of melee but was also able to heal at the cost of burn.
    Ah, a melee kineticist. HP issues are magnified when you get yourself into the thick of things. The only "melee" kineticist I've used in Kingmaker was Valerie (fighter 1 -> kineticist fire/water) decked out in full plate, tower shield, and a touch attack kinetic blade. She almost never gathered power and never took burn unless she was healing herself.

    I don't understand how you don't acquire burn, tho? You need to in order to use your stronger powers, or utility things like healing. Obviously you won't see the "burn causes fragility" issue if you don't take burn, but are you just not using anything that requires it? Are you then also not getting the bonuses that come online when you have some burn (I forget what the class feature is called)?
    Indeed. Moderation is the key. You don't have to burn yourself in every encounter. Infusion specialization made keeping burn low if you pace yourself. I use kineticists as nova characters. They don't go "all out" until things require it, or the benefits are worth the burn. Otherwise, that sort of overwhelming performance is not sustainable.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Maybe I was playing on too high of a difficulty level, but I had to heal a lot. :(
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Maybe I was playing on too high of a difficulty level, but I had to heal a lot. :(
    The game does require a lot of healing. Kineticist should not be your primary healer. An emergency backup at best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    The game does require a lot of healing. Kineticist should not be your primary healer. An emergency backup at best.
    I agree that using the Kineticist to heal should never be a primary option. One of the few times I resort to healing someone with the Kineticist is when the actual healer is being pressed and I need to keep them alive long enough to blast off a channel energy to hit everyone.

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    I'm pretty sure I exclusively used it for in combat emergency healing, and it still happened fairly often. This game is hard, yo!

    EDIT: I'll definitely play on a more casual difficulty setting if I ever go back to this game. I play real D&D/Pathfinder pretty regularly, but I guess my DMs aren't as tough as this game's.
    Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2020-11-05 at 08:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Kingmaker

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    EDIT: I'll definitely play on a more casual difficulty setting if I ever go back to this game. I play real D&D/Pathfinder pretty regularly, but I guess my DMs aren't as tough as this game's.
    Kingmaker is decidedly tougher than a normal Pathfinder game should be. Several of the challenge ratings for encounters, if you actually go and add them up, are almost ridiculously high. Many enemies have AC values that are far above their stated bestiary values to the point of being fairly ludicrous (I believe there's a few enemies with an AC in the 40s), the addition of extra Hit Dice to pad out HP bloat increases the difficulty of using SoD effects on enemies (and your ability to survive the same), and because the game comes with a built in clock limit and encumbrance-based limitations on rations, you're under intense pressure to clear an extremely large number of encounters without resting. Oh, and all of the pre-generated party members are pretty relentlessly un-optimized (and the ones that are the most useful are primarily the evil ones).

    Beyond that the game also imposes tactical limitations that would get many a living GM screamed at, like allowing undetectable non-magical monsters to just materialize behind you in dungeons and not allowing you to control the actions of your own summons (which makes certain summons worse than useless, because they'll do things like toss lightning bolts through your own party members). And, on the meta-level the kingdom management element of the game strongly encourages the player to drop every last spare GP on boosting the kingdom rather than hoarding it for the numerous consumables (which are often extremely powerful: ex. the final dungeon vendor has like a nearly limitless supply of scrolls of Mass Heal, which totally changes the gameplay dynamic if you buy dozens of them) available.

    Put together, Kingmaker comes off as a game designed with the expectation that you'll be using a walkthrough while playing it, not actually exploring on your own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    I'm pretty sure I exclusively used it for in combat emergency healing, and it still happened fairly often. This game is hard, yo!

    EDIT: I'll definitely play on a more casual difficulty setting if I ever go back to this game. I play real D&D/Pathfinder pretty regularly, but I guess my DMs aren't as tough as this game's.
    I had Kalikke in my party, and I don't think I ever used her healing, even in an emergency. Tristian and potions were more than enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Kingmaker is decidedly tougher than a normal Pathfinder game should be. Several of the challenge ratings for encounters, if you actually go and add them up, are almost ridiculously high. Many enemies have AC values that are far above their stated bestiary values to the point of being fairly ludicrous (I believe there's a few enemies with an AC in the 40s), the addition of extra Hit Dice to pad out HP bloat increases the difficulty of using SoD effects on enemies (and your ability to survive the same), and because the game comes with a built in clock limit and encumbrance-based limitations on rations, you're under intense pressure to clear an extremely large number of encounters without resting. Oh, and all of the pre-generated party members are pretty relentlessly un-optimized (and the ones that are the most useful are primarily the evil ones).

    Beyond that the game also imposes tactical limitations that would get many a living GM screamed at, like allowing undetectable non-magical monsters to just materialize behind you in dungeons and not allowing you to control the actions of your own summons (which makes certain summons worse than useless, because they'll do things like toss lightning bolts through your own party members). And, on the meta-level the kingdom management element of the game strongly encourages the player to drop every last spare GP on boosting the kingdom rather than hoarding it for the numerous consumables (which are often extremely powerful: ex. the final dungeon vendor has like a nearly limitless supply of scrolls of Mass Heal, which totally changes the gameplay dynamic if you buy dozens of them) available.

    Put together, Kingmaker comes off as a game designed with the expectation that you'll be using a walkthrough while playing it, not actually exploring on your own.
    I couldn't disagree more. I finished the game on my first playthrough on hard without reading any guides and using the default companions without multiclassing them (except for the obvious prestiges like Octavia-Arcane Trickster and Valerie-Stalward Defender). And I'm not saying this to brag, but to establish that I wasn't playing on a low difficulty when I say I actually found Kingmaker significantly easier than most tabletop campaigns I've ever played. And I found it easier due to having a 6-man party instead of the usual 4-5, monsters that were governed by a dumb AI instead of a smart human, the ability to save and load, the game being extremely generous in consumables and high-quality gear, the artisans practically printing money (I had about 2 million in the bank in the last chapter), and maybe other things I'm forgetting at the moment..

    The default companions may not have been min-maxed to the extreme like you'd find in the optimization guides, but they were more than sufficient for any difficulty except maybe Unfair. Your party composition, the way you built them, the buffs you used outside of combat and your combat tactics were far, far more important in making the game go smoothly than their stats. And all the default companions got some pretty nifty buffs when you finished their sidequests that a normal character wouldn't get anyway.

    Put together, Kingmaker was a game designed with some different assumptions. Time pressure, kingdom management, always doing the main quest before any sidequests, many optional encounters that were extremely tough the first time you encounter them but you could come back to them after getting stronger. Most other cRPGs don't have any of those, and I can understand why they'd trip you up, but it's absolutely not the case that you need a walkthrough. The game could do a better job explaining those differences for sure, but it does explain them.
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