Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 3456789101112131415161718 LastLast
Results 361 to 390 of 514
  1. - Top - End - #361
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Metastachydium's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2020

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    As long as we have enough bone meal, you mean.
    That's the good stuff! Keep it flowing!

  2. - Top - End - #362
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    That part with the fox was probably written by Bilbo, so it's more in the tone of The Hobbit.
    (Frodo writing up his painful and torturous ordeal)
    Bilbo (over his shoulder): Put a fox in!
    (Frodo, too exhausted from sting, blade and burden, writes in a fox)
    Bilbo: great! And remember to include that rhyme Sam made up while you were dying!
    Frodo: (winces from the wound of the Morgul blade) yes uncle...

  3. - Top - End - #363
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in Utah...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    According to Gygax they are
    Remember that Gygax had a habit of trolling people.

  4. - Top - End - #364
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Remember that Gygax had a habit of trolling people.
    He put in the law and chaos axis and wasn’t happy about having good evil on top - specifically CG
    That attitude continues with various depictions of CN and CG
    'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"

  5. - Top - End - #365
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jul 2018

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    He put in the law and chaos axis and wasn’t happy about having good evil on top - specifically CG
    That attitude continues with various depictions of CN and CG
    Oh don't get me started on how Chaotic Neutral/Good people got put down as second-rate again.

  6. - Top - End - #366
    Troll in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Well that might explain why a lot of LN/TN/CN creatures act... weird.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.


    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!


    Extended signature here.

  7. - Top - End - #367
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Meridianville AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Well that might explain why a lot of LN/TN/CN creatures act... weird.
    Reading the 3.5 MM there are definitely some "WHAT" moments in the various alignment entries.

    The Arrowhawk is listed as TN with a behavior pattern described that sure sounds Evil (attacks and tries to eat almost anything it meets). Similarly for Slaads and their alleged CN alignment and some Modron actions and their supposed LN. Those are all AFAIK legacy monsters where the monster is supposedly N on the Good-Evil axis because it's not supposed to care about other creatures, but 3.x, callus indifference to the welfare of others is Evil even if you DON'T actually attack anyone, and in these cases the creatures are all aggressively attacking innocents for personal reasons, blatantly over the top Evil by the 3.x standards and definitions.

    Then there are the mindless undead that plainly should be TN by the rules (and were in 3.0), but then in 3.5 they morphed to NE with no change in their scores or behavior to justify it.

  8. - Top - End - #368
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    Reading the 3.5 MM there are definitely some "WHAT" moments in the various alignment entries.

    The Arrowhawk is listed as TN with a behavior pattern described that sure sounds Evil (attacks and tries to eat almost anything it meets). Similarly for Slaads and their alleged CN alignment and some Modron actions and their supposed LN. Those are all AFAIK legacy monsters where the monster is supposedly N on the Good-Evil axis because it's not supposed to care about other creatures, but 3.x, callus indifference to the welfare of others is Evil even if you DON'T actually attack anyone, and in these cases the creatures are all aggressively attacking innocents for personal reasons, blatantly over the top Evil by the 3.x standards and definitions.

    Then there are the mindless undead that plainly should be TN by the rules (and were in 3.0), but then in 3.5 they morphed to NE with no change in their scores or behavior to justify it.
    Watsonian: they're the product of intrinsically evil magic which gives them an evil aura.
    Doylist: First level Paladins gotta Smite *something*.

  9. - Top - End - #369
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Mar 2020

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    It's weird cause sometimes alignment seems to be something you do, like you get this tag as a result of consistently doing actions that fit into X category, but other times it seems to be something you are even if your behavior doesn't exactly support it. Like undead seem to be NE cause they are made out of evil stuff and came to be due to an evil aligned spell, but their behavior is honestly kinda hard to even ascribe any particular sense of morality to. And then you get to extraplanars and you just get into a whole mess over free will and whatnot, which let's be real here the alignment system was never really created to address.

  10. - Top - End - #370
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in Utah...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    The Arrowhawk is listed as TN with a behavior pattern described that sure sounds Evil (attacks and tries to eat almost anything it meets).
    Arrowhawks are territorial and predators. But they won't needlessly prolong the pain of eating you or attack you if you're not in their territory and they're not hungry, so they're not evil.

  11. - Top - End - #371
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    I think the door they entered wasn't a "searched" dungeon, just one the MitD marked, and the gate is going to be in there. I bet you can only find the gate if you enter a dungeon and you're not searching for the gate. Xykon's been looking for the gate this whole time, but now he just went inside this dungeon on some non-gate related, search and destroy mission.

  12. - Top - End - #372
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham. AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyJohnny View Post
    I think the door they entered wasn't a "searched" dungeon, just one the MitD marked, and the gate is going to be in there. I bet you can only find the gate if you enter a dungeon and you're not searching for the gate.
    Wouldnt the bugbear village have found the Gate literally every time they entered a dungeon before Xykon & Co. turned up?

    Also, that's a terrible security system for something. "You can only find it if you're not looking for it, so anyone who doesn't know about it will find it immediately and it will become significantly more known."
    Spoiler: Avatar by always-awesome Cuthalion
    Show
    Spoiler: Come down with fire
    Show
    Spoiler: Lift my spirit higher
    Show
    Spoiler: Someone's screaming my name
    Show
    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.

  13. - Top - End - #373
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Also, that's a terrible security system for something. "You can only find it if you're not looking for it, so anyone who doesn't know about it will find it immediately and it will become significantly more known."
    Yeah, but it was cheap and all that Serini could afford at the time, since we see that a few corners got cut on at least one of the gate protection schemes ...
    And I still don't get this line from Girard:

    Actually, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what will happen. Isn't that right, Soon?

    Girard had a serious bug up his backside about Soon.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-10-26 at 02:46 PM.
    Avatar by linklele
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
    How Teleport Works

  14. - Top - End - #374
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Meridianville AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Watsonian: they're the product of intrinsically evil magic which gives them an evil aura.
    Doylist: First level Paladins gotta Smite *something*.
    They have an evil aura without the alignment, in fact, the evil aura's strength and nature is TOTALLY UNCHANGED by giving them the alignment, so it's not the Watsonian reason.

    It would have been easy to add "Smite Evil works on all undead" to the power if the Doylist reason were thought through rather than messing with their definitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Arrowhawks are territorial and predators. But they won't needlessly prolong the pain of eating you or attack you if you're not in their territory and they're not hungry, so they're not evil.
    Territorial and predator do NOT give you a pass on the alignment rules. Neither word nor any synonym occurs in any of the alignment definitions except for a statement that animals are TN. But Arrowhawks are intelligent, they don't get that pass.

    "I kill an innocent sapient because I'm feeling hungry" when not in actual danger of starvation is clear cut EVIL in 3.x.

  15. - Top - End - #375
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in Utah...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    Territorial and predator do NOT give you a pass on the alignment rules. Neither word nor any synonym occurs in any of the alignment definitions except for a statement that animals are TN. But Arrowhawks are intelligent, they don't get that pass.

    "I kill an innocent sapient because I'm feeling hungry" when not in actual danger of starvation is clear cut EVIL in 3.x.
    Yeah, you're right. I was just spitballing here. They should probably be Neutral Evil.

  16. - Top - End - #376
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Or we just throw Alignment in a trash skip and call it a day.

  17. - Top - End - #377
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Or we just throw Alignment in a trash skip and call it a day.
    This gets my vote.
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  18. - Top - End - #378
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in Utah...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    I find alignment useful, and I'm a grognard, so it's staying in my games. In fact, I might look to roll back some of the ways 5E made alignment less important in my games.

  19. - Top - End - #379
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Or we just throw Alignment in a trash skip and call it a day.
    Could we replace it with Moustache Twirler vs Cape Wearer?

  20. - Top - End - #380
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rbetieh View Post
    Could we replace it with Moustache Twirler vs Cape Wearer?
    But not all heroes wear capes.

  21. - Top - End - #381
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacky720 View Post
    But not all heroes wear capes.
    I cant imagine one heroic DnD adventurer that wouldn't spring for a cloak of protection and thats pertty cape-like.

  22. - Top - End - #382
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    But what about the Monocle Polishers?

  23. - Top - End - #383
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham. AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    But what about the Monocle Polishers?
    Let's keep this PG-rated.
    Spoiler: Avatar by always-awesome Cuthalion
    Show
    Spoiler: Come down with fire
    Show
    Spoiler: Lift my spirit higher
    Show
    Spoiler: Someone's screaming my name
    Show
    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.

  24. - Top - End - #384
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rbetieh View Post
    Could we replace it with Moustache Twirler vs Cape Wearer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    But what about the Monocle Polishers?
    How am I supposed to build a classy pirate who wears a cape, twirls his mustache, and wears a monocle on one eye and an eyepatch on the other under such a system?
    Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?

    Free haiku !
    Alas, poor Cookie
    The world needs more platypi
    I wish you could be


    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

  25. - Top - End - #385
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    How am I supposed to build a classy pirate who wears a cape, twirls his mustache, and wears a monocle on one eye and an eyepatch on the other under such a system?
    A classy pirate? I thought all anyone ever wanted now are Jack Sparrow vs Barbosa....

  26. - Top - End - #386
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Nonsense. Captain Hook remains the better choice by miles.
    Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?

    Free haiku !
    Alas, poor Cookie
    The world needs more platypi
    I wish you could be


    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

  27. - Top - End - #387
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    *Sad Long John Silver noises*
    "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    Gehm's corollary to Clarke's Third Law



    Forum Wisdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  28. - Top - End - #388
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Nov 2015

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Yeah, but it was cheap and all that Serini could afford at the time, since we see that a few corners got cut on at least one of the gate protection schemes ...
    And I still don't get this line from Girard:

    Actually, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what will happen. Isn't that right, Soon?

    Girard had a serious bug up his backside about Soon.
    I understood that line from Girard to be a prediction that Soon was going to take all the credit for the win and therefore Kraagor's sacrifice would be forgotten.

    Huh, I just had a thought. If there is a planet in the rift and Kraagor got dragged in, could he still be alive in there? Laurin didn't feel any minds, but...

  29. - Top - End - #389
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jul 2018

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyJohnny View Post
    I think the door they entered wasn't a "searched" dungeon, just one the MitD marked, and the gate is going to be in there. I bet you can only find the gate if you enter a dungeon and you're not searching for the gate. Xykon's been looking for the gate this whole time, but now he just went inside this dungeon on some non-gate related, search and destroy mission.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wouldnt the bugbear village have found the Gate literally every time they entered a dungeon before Xykon & Co. turned up?

    Also, that's a terrible security system for something. "You can only find it if you're not looking for it, so anyone who doesn't know about it will find it immediately and it will become significantly more known."
    Yeah Dumbledore's defence system was a bit odd.

    Yes I know that in Dumbledore's case the defence system was 'you must must desire the McGuffin but not wish to actually use it' but it's got the same flaw that it'll lead to some random schmuck getting their hands on the McGuffin because their mindset happened to match the criteria in a way the person in charge of guarding it didn't anticipate.

    Probably shouldn't design a system meant to keep something dangerous out of the wrong hands around someone's frame of mind. Or if you do at least make the actual criteria something which can't be met by someone thinking "I just want to see the McGuffin because I'm curious what it looks like."

  30. - Top - End - #390
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfunkman View Post
    I understood that line from Girard to be a prediction that Soon was going to take all the credit for the win and therefore Kraagor's sacrifice would be forgotten.
    Less Soon taking credit and more nobody getting credit - the rifts are a secret as such any actions or sacrifice to close them is also a secret and so forgotten (except by people in the know about the secret i.e the Sapphire Guard and the Draketooth family).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •