OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread

[arverst_aegnar]

Maybe it's not lad as "younger male" but lad as in "go out drinking with the lads"?

Maybe, though "the lad" sounds more like how you refer to a youngster -- which is probably what kickstarted my curiosity.

I hope we get back to the rest of the Order soon, we haven’t seen them in four months, I miss them.

I almost commented on how long it had been since we'd seen the Order, but then i thought, 'How long has it been, really?' and dropped it. Apparently almost 4 months, which considering the rate this comic updates (not a complaint), isn't that long, but is pretty long.

[Fyraltari]

Silence can be cast on a creature, object, or point in space. Usually you want one of the last two options because there's no will save to overcome it that way. Durkon however, chose the more difficult first option because then, the spell sticks to Greyview and will keep him quiet all the way until he can reach his allies. This was a reasonable tactic since worgs have weak will saves.

And this will tip Team Evil off about the MiTD how?

[Psyren]

And this will tip Team Evil off about the MiTD how?

My post had two different things in it:

1) The mechanics of Greview being silenced
2) Team Evil potentially ending up in combat with some tough monsters, impairing their ability to continue chasing the dwarves.

Getting tipped off about MitD referred to the latter. They're in a door with Xs on it, so they won't be expecting any monsters. But MitD was falsely painting doors, so there's a nonzero chance they actually all ran into a fresh dungeon teeming with enemies.

[Metastachydium]

And now we have definitive proof that pessimism does in fact pay.

[dancrilis]

What do you mean?

They mean that if there are monsters in the marked door that Xykon and co will notice and deduce that someone has been marking invalid doors.

[The Pilgrim]

Glad to see Durkon is going to come clean on Roy about this.

[Fyraltari]

My post had two different things in it:

1) The mechanics of Greview being silenced
2) Team Evil potentially ending up in combat with some tough monsters, impairing their ability to continue chasing the dwarves.

Getting tipped off about MitD referred to the latter. They're in a door with Xs on it, so they won't be expecting any monsters. But MitD was falsely painting doors, so there's a nonzero chance they actually all ran into a fresh dungeon teeming with enemies.

They mean that if there are monsters in the marked door that Xykon and co will notice and deduce that someone has been marking invalid doors.

It's more likely they suspect the order of marking the doors rather than the MitD.

[WindStruck]

If team evil is in combat, they probably won't even know it was the worg with silence casted on it until it is dispelled.

And can they even cast dispel in a field of silence?

Just trying to figure it out and futilely attempting to talk to one another in the silence would probably be a hilarious waste of time.

[Lex]

Poor Roy. All this time spent planning the perfect way to defeat Xykon, and his best friends screws everything up at the last moment. Our party leader is gonna be extremely pissed.

[Metastachydium]

If team evil is in combat, they probably won't even know it was the worg with silence casted on it until it is dispelled.

And can they even cast dispel in a field of silence?

Just trying to figure it out and futilely attempting to talk to one another in the silence would probably be a hilarious waste of time.

I'm fairly certain Greyview can communicate such simple messages as ”follow me, it's important” to Oona without words. Also, his inability to vocalise this message would tell Team Evil he probably ran into the clerics.

[Ghosty]

If team evil is in combat, they probably won't even know it was the worg with silence casted on it until it is dispelled.

And can they even cast dispel in a field of silence?

Just trying to figure it out and futilely attempting to talk to one another in the silence would probably be a hilarious waste of time.

From this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/silence.htm new creatures entering the Silence field around Greyview, get a Will save and Spell Resistance, if applicable, against the effects.

LOL if it ended up fizzling a spell or two while Team Evil was in combat.

Durkon and Minrah really didn't have an exit strategy beyond running. Wow.

[KorvinStarmast]

From Durkon's perspective, getting the drop on Xykon and just defeating him doesn't address the more pressing issue, the existential sword of Damocles. {snip} The rifts are already deteriorating, how much longer would it take for the Gods to inevitably unravel the world even if this one gate is protected? He took the only chance he saw to actually fix that problem, and unfortunately it didn't pan out.

This.

Reasons to love this comic:
1. Greyview is in it. (My nose was very confused just made me laugh. I have two dogs)
2. Tactical use of a low level spell in a high level encounter (high level in the sense that Redcloak and Xykon are the problem)
3. Why they can't stop and heal
4. The last panel: Durkon, always thinking about others.

As to the assertion of 'evil dwarves' that is an ally of their enemy, and all they needed to do was knock him out. (But Minrah missed, so that's moot). Also, if we recall recent history, Greyview chomped down on Minrah's foot ...

[Dion]

Greyview he was just talking to them and they attacked him - bad dwarves.

They didn’t even post signs saying this was their territory.

[Metastachydium]

Poor Roy. All this time spent planning the perfect way to defeat Xykon, and his best friends screws everything up at the last moment. Our party leader is gonna be extremely pissed.

I'd presume that Roy has the tactical prowess it takes to realize that if Xykon's soon to be on them, he should probably leave expressing his anger and dissatisfaction for later.

[Peelee]

It's more likely they suspect the order of marking the doors rather than the MitD.

But the MitD is with them and the Order isn't. Quick and easy to ask Monnie Darko if he did it, and poor Bluff checks and good Sense Motive checks are possibilities.

[Fyraltari]

But the MitD is with them and the Order isn't. Quick and easy to ask Monnie Darko if he did it, and poor Bluff checks and good Sense Motive checks are possibilities.

The MitD isn't with them, he's (presumably) still at the village right now.
Why would they suspect him? Do you think they'll ask Redcloak whether he did it too?

[Peelee]

The MitD isn't with them, he's (presumably) still at the village right now.

Huh. Missed that. Regardless, they know where he is, which is still something they don't have with the Order.

Why would they suspect him?

Because he's been painting doors.

Do you think they'll ask Redcloak whether he did it too?

Why not? Redcloak, of course, has the advantage of not needing a Bluff check. And also has a direct stake in finding the right door while the MitD has no stake in it at all, of course.

[Goblin_Priest]

I was wondering where Greyview went.

Also, I see Durkon likes to prep all these super situational spells in the morning. :P

Also 2, they knew there are intruders in town. They could very well suspect that Durkon drew the extra Xs to hinder their efforts.

[King of Nowhere]

the premature gloat? greyview, i was expecting better from you when your life is on the line.

My post had two different things in it:

1) The mechanics of Greview being silenced
2) Team Evil potentially ending up in combat with some tough monsters, impairing their ability to continue chasing the dwarves.

Getting tipped off about MitD referred to the latter. They're in a door with Xs on it, so they won't be expecting any monsters. But MitD was falsely painting doors, so there's a nonzero chance they actually all ran into a fresh dungeon teeming with enemies.

on the other hand, they may also assume that monsters respawn periodically

[b_jonas]

It was at least brilliant to put the Silence on Greyview. Now he has to run all the way into the dungeon to warn Team Evil, who hopefully are embroiled in combat with some big nasty that they can't easily get away from.

It's a tradeoff. Greyview probably has some magic resistance, so if Durkon casts Silence on her, there's a risk that the spell fails, and then Greyview has a turn to raise the alarm. If he casts it on the are, the spell will succeed.

[Psyren]

I'm fairly certain Greyview can communicate such simple messages as ”follow me, it's important” to Oona without words. Also, his inability to vocalise this message would tell Team Evil he probably ran into the clerics.

No - only familiars have an empathic link like that. Animal Companions need to be handled like any other animal; worgs are more intelligent and can communicate via speech, but the Silence is stopping that. Oona won't have any way of detecting danger from Greyview mentally.

Durkon and Minrah really didn't have an exit strategy beyond running. Wow.

Yeah, that's what blew my mind the most I understood them not doing anything but running before, but they definitely have the rounds now to wind walk etc given that they waited until TE was all the way out of sight.

It's a tradeoff. Greyview probably has some magic resistance, so if Durkon casts Silence on her, there's a risk that the spell fails, and then Greyview has a turn to raise the alarm. If he casts it on the are, the spell will succeed.

Casting it on a fixed point in the air would have meant Greyview could simply move 20ft and then howl unimpeded. In other words, not a great plan.

[pendell]

I don't agree with what Durkon did, but at the end of the day Durkon's true boss is Thor, not Roy.

If he can't obey his party leader, he can form his own adventuring party and do what he likes. Thor may be his ultimate boss, but while he's in a party he has to play by the party rules, including taking the orders of the party leader.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Fyraltari]

Huh. Missed that. Regardless, they know where he is, which is still something they don't have with the Order.

Because he's been painting doors.

Not every time.
And they know the Order is around here and most importantly, that the Order doesn't want them to succeed.

Why not? Redcloak, of course, has the advantage of not needing a Bluff check. And also has a direct stake in finding the right door while the MitD has no stake in it at all, of course.

Because Xykon doesn't want to overthink things. An ennemy appears at the same time as a problem, absent a reason to suspect otherwise, ennemy action is the assumed cause of the problem.

[SlashDash]

Yes, the door is marked with an X. Yes, it's possible monsters are still inside.
It still doesn't mean they automatically realize what's going on.
First, didn't Oona say they are still leaving monsters behind so that her people can still have food and such?


Second, it could be a mark made by mistake or that the monster isn't the only one who marks doors. We saw him do it once.
In fact, when we saw him do it, he asked for permission. Therefore, it's likely that other people marked doors before that.

So even if team evil suspect things, it's more likely they will suspect each other in general, not the monster in particular.

Heck, they could even suspect that Durkon was running around marking doors for all they know.

To be honest, I think that would have been my way of thinking.
Next time you go door hunting, go over each door already marked.
If they are empty, it would probably take just a couple of minutes. If there are monsters there, might as well go at that particular door. It's as random as anything juts in case Durkon did that on purpose for them.

[Metastachydium]

No - only familiars have an empathic link like that. Animal Companions need to be handled like any other animal; worgs are more intelligent and can communicate via speech, but the Silence is stopping that. Oona won't have any way of detecting danger from Greyview mentally.

I wasn't talking about an empathic link of any sort, though. Real world animals can convey such messages just fine, and Greyview's intelligence is more of the human sort. He has an expressive face and can use any number of gestures which Oona, who knows him well, will understand well enough withoutresorting to some kind of telepathy.

[Psyren]

If he can't obey his party leader, he can form his own adventuring party and do what he likes. Thor may be his ultimate boss, but while he's in a party he has to play by the party rules, including taking the orders of the party leader.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Technically, he did follow Roy's orders letter, not spirit, but still.

So even if team evil suspect things, it's more likely they will suspect each other in general, not the monster in particular.

That's a possibility.

I wasn't talking about an empathic link of any sort, though. Real world animals can convey such messages just fine, and Greyview's intelligence is more of the human sort. He has an expressive face and can use any number of gestures which Oona, who knows him well, will understand well enough withoutresorting to some kind of telepathy.

Sure, but by the time he's close enough to Oona for that to matter, the Silence would have done its job of delaying the alarm further.

[Peelee]

Not every time.

Never claimed otherwise.

And they know the Order is around here and most importantly, that the Order doesn't want them to succeed.

Yes, and the Order is an unknown distance away and in an unknown location. The MitD is neither of these.

Because Xykon doesn't want to overthink things.

What's to overthink? There are X options. Eliminating Y of them is fast and simple. Plus, it's not like Xykon and Redcloak completely trust Team Evil right now regardless.

[Ghosty]

Technically, he did follow Roy's orders letter, not spirit, but still....

He is pretty much the epitome of Lawful... So much so, I'd expect him to become whatever the Valhalla equivalent of a Deva is, upon his final death.

As distrusting of each other as X and RC have become, it's not that surprising if each of them were suspecting each other, something in the Bugbear village, or the Order, before they consider the MITD messing with them.

Heck, they may think it's Serini. Depends on what they know about her final disposition, and what covers her section in that diary.

[Metastachydium]

Sure, but by the time he's close enough to Oona for that to matter, the Silence would have done its job of delaying the alarm further.

Quite on the contrary. Oona would still be able to tell that he wants them to follow him, while the effect of the silence spell would make it abundantly clear why he wants them to do so.

[Cazero]

Because he's been painting doors.

Let's say you're police people and are called on a crime scene. At first, do you :
1) check for clues, or
2) ask your partner if he did done it?