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2020-10-20, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Call me a killjoy if you see that fit, but ”Greyview explains to Oona with facial expressions and gestures and without much difficulty that Team Evil should follow him; Redcloak realizes immediately that the clerics are somewhere behind them; he lags behind as Oona and Greyview begin to move back towards the door until he's out of range; he dispels the silence spell; and off they go” sounds a lot more likely than ”Team Evil almost dies and then X. kills Greyview.”
Also, I don't expect that we are going to see how Greyview delivers the message.
While I find the idea that Minrah is soon to die less than feasible, I would presume that those who believe Minrah will die base that assumption on the fact thet she is not a core member of the Order, and (according to the Giant) not a member of the main cast, either. As such, she is indeed a more likely candidate for getting killed were Team Evil to demonstrate that they are still a deadly threat than any member of the Order (including Belkar). Needless to say, since we know well enough what Team Evil and its individual members are capable of, such a demonstration would be largely gratuitous.
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2020-10-20, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
That first part... that's not how the spell works at all o.o
And that second part? That's exactly the common tactic.
I'm not sure what spell you're thinking of, but your complaint is perfectly wrong, as you describe the use of the spell as your assumed-wrong scenario.
Silence only has one save, at the start, and only if you casted it on a living being or an item held by someone wanting to resist it.
You can even cast it on yourself, or an object you're holding, with no save at all. Then move with the silence around you, or throw the item where you want the center of "silence" to be...
Even better to cast it on your melee-based ally, who'd then go melee the casters XDYep, avatar by myself. ^^
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2020-10-20, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-20, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2020-10-20, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Yes, that is how the rules work. It is not an interpretation, but the intended effect of the spell.
I think you're overreacting. Having a silinced team member going against enemy casters is a good tactic but it does not cause the game to grind "to a screeching halt" nor is it a fail-safe shutdown against casters.
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2020-10-20, 09:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Arrrgh, here be me extended sig!
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2020-10-20, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Assuming they run into a door that wasn't cleared, Team Evil is probably going to suspect Team Good of sabotaging the doors if anyone.
All the evidence just lines up too nicely from Team Evil's perspective for it to be anyone else.
The sudden appearance of the dwarves whom seem well prepared and more at-ease then maybe they should for their current situation.
Like they had ample time to prepare and selected this exact moment to make their move.
How the trail would be leading to a false marked door in the first place.
It is more believable it was planned on the part of Team Good instead of just random coincidence.
Follow that up with the dwarves sending a silenced Greyview in right afterwards... this totally looks like an intentional set-up by Team Good.
I don't think X would ever suspect MitD.
RC may... but his distrust/hatred for other races is going to be a block preventing him from coming to that conclusion.
Team Evil is probably going to fall victim to the Correlation Equals Causation Fallacy and Confirmation Bias Fallacy.
Also, would it be impossible for anyone to steal some paint to sabotage the marks?
I don't remember where it is being stored.
Maybe a well prepared rogue with spells buffing could make that possible?
This could be the conclusion RC come to.Last edited by mashlagoo1982; 2020-10-20 at 10:26 AM.
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2020-10-20, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Even if Xykon and/or Redcloak suspect the MitD of marking unexplored doors, there's always the question whether or not they could do anything against it. My money is on the "MitD is a young Tarrasque" theory, and in that case, Team Evil would need a Wish spell to rid themselves of the MitD. And while Xykon would certainly be powerful enough to cast Wish, there is no indication at all he has it on his spell list, especially since Wish is pretty much narrative-breaking like True Resurrection.
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2020-10-20, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Why would that be planned? If anything, that immediately lets Team Evil know that the markings are unreliable, instead of letting them believe they are reliable for an unknown amount of time in the future. It's actively detrimental to Team Good to let them know, assuming Team Good painted them.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-10-20, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-20, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-20, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Or maybe team evil decides they’re random doors, opening to a different inter-dimensional dungeon each time you open them.
Or maybe team evil decides the dungeons repopulate much more quickly than they realized.
Or maybe team evil decides that the unreliable dope with the paint can who paints doors has painted the doors in an unreliable and dopey way.
Or maybe team evil will decide some other bugbear has been painting doors too, because they don’t want their favorite hunting ground messed with.
Or maybe team evil dies, and for the rest of the book is OotS has to figure out how to save the world without them.
What I’m saying is there are hundreds of potential “what next” scenarios, and choosing between either “team evil decides OotS did it” or “team evil decides MitD betrayed them” as the only options is a false dichotomy.Last edited by Dion; 2020-10-20 at 11:36 AM.
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2020-10-20, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2016
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
: Durkon, didn't I tell you not that long ago that our one single advantage we possess is the element of surprise?
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2020-10-20, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
I must not have made myself clear, so I will attempt again.
From the perspective of Team Evil, this could look like an attempt from Team Good to bump them off.
All the facts are easily aligned to fit that narrative from their perspective.
Even if Team Evil think back to their past discrepancies (where they started thinking they must have gone into more dungeons but didn't remember doing so), this could look like a trap long in the making that is being sprung now.
How would the good guys know this dungeon was sabotaged and contains super high level monsters still?
Obviously the good guys marked it themselves and just remembered its location as part of their plan.
How would the good guys know when to make contact with RC?
They were watching Team Evil.
Why are these dwarves so brazen with their behavior and relatively unconcerned with their current situation?
Because they put in the time and effort to orchestrated events and lead Team Evil into a scenario that would benefit Team Good.
One even shouted at RC "This is a bad plan we planned for!"
Team Evil could easily and incorrectly leap to the conclusion that Team Good has been watching their actions for sometime and planned this moment to tip their hand with hopes that Team Evil is killed.
Both of RC and X have huge flaws that could play into this assumption.
Which is why I used the language "if anyone".Last edited by mashlagoo1982; 2020-10-20 at 12:55 PM.
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2020-10-20, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Sorry for the double post.
Last edited by mashlagoo1982; 2020-10-20 at 12:21 PM.
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2020-10-20, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
If Silence is cast on a person/creature, and that person/creature is killed, does the spell end? That is, is the spell attached to the body or to some kind of philosophical essence of the being?
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2020-10-20, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah. Silent Spell is a feat designed pretty much to shut this tactic down. Similar with Still Spell. Or you just put a spell in a spell completion item that doesn't need a command word (Ring of Spell Storing, for example).
It's very hard to inconvenience spellcasters for more than a round or two.
edit:
If Silence is cast on a person/creature, and that person/creature is killed, does the spell end? That is, is the spell attached to the body or to some kind of philosophical essence of the being?Last edited by Rogar Demonblud; 2020-10-20 at 12:25 PM.
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2020-10-20, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Redcloak was certainly sure that the Sapphire Guard knew more than they did. This might have gotten reinforced by the encounter near Girard's recently destroyed gate (when Redcloak summoned the silicon elemental ...)
As seen by team evil:
Pesky heroes annoy them near Durokan's gate (flawed TE assumption being that they were there to mess with the gate or take it from Xykon)
Pesky heroes try to defeat Xykon/stop him from taking the gate that Miko ultimately destroyed. (Failed, granted, but certainly tried)
Pesky Heroes are there when Girard's gate blows up, leaving but one gate for TE ... which TE get to... and WTF, these pesky and annoying heroes are doing it again, getting in the way of TE using the gate for their own purposes.
Xykon and TE can certainly see that trend as part of a larger plan, regardless of whether TE get or don't get the correct reasons behind that plan.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2020-10-20 at 12:38 PM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-10-20, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Re: how much Team Evil might guess about the MITD's plan to mark doors
I haven't been trying to follow the convoluted metaphors in this discussion, but if Team Evil encounters monsters here, they have only enough evidence to say that one door was marked incorrectly — this one that they went in.
We know that the MITD has been marking multiple doors. We know that Redcloak has been making calculated assumptions based on their average completion rate.
If we're attempting to declare that it's more or less likely that Team Evil guesses that anyone has been marking doors, plural, then we have to get to the moment of realization that doors, plural, are marked wrong.The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.
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2020-10-20, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-20, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, my misinterpretation comes from the the very limited number of spell slots characters will have at the time this spell will become available. Which to me also limits access to metamagic feats like silent spell. So it felt like an overpowered effect for a level 2 spell. At least I learned something new, better late than never.
Having the ranger etc. guard the casters seems way more important during the low levels now.
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2020-10-20, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-10-20, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Ah, our dearest Durkon is always so thoughtful.
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2020-10-20, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Wizards and sorcerers don't have a ton of feats, though, and wizards need to anticipate which spells they'd need silent. A metamagic rod comes in handy for this, though.
Still, a spell that makes a hostile caster unable to cast his spells on you for two rounds is a great investment. Especially if it requires such a low level slot.Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
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2020-10-20, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah. Unfortunately, it doesn't do anything about the caster's friends with their shiny metal sticks.
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2020-10-20, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Roy, you of all people should know better than to rely on ANY of the Order, including you, to be capable of making plan A work from start to finish without shenanigans, unexpected turns of fate, or at least one (eu)catastrophe.
If anything, Durkon is acting in the proper OOTS tradition of running away from the threat. Just be glad the whole party's still alive to disappoint you.
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2020-10-20, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Elan vs Team Evil
Elan: Hi! I'm Elan!
Redcloak:... And?
Elan: I'm a bard. I can, like, sing and stuff.
Redcloak:...
Elan: And I wondered if... I dunno... You needed something put into a song?
Redcloak: Why would I want a song...
Elan: Maybe a historic epic about goblinoid triumphs, or something.
Redcloak: no, no, I'm not having humans capitalising on our cultural...
Elan: Oh, goblinoid musical cultures? Like Bugbear Throat Singing, or Hobgoblin Battle Hymns?
Redcloak: I... Wait you know about them?
Elan: I don't normally play them, I'm very aware of appropriation. But if you have any Goblin Bards, then I could teach them what I've learnt and restore the cultural heritage that was lost.
Redcloak: I don't get it, what's in it for you?
Elan: Um, I'm a bard? We take lessons in how to be fifth wheels in other people's storylines.
Haley vs Team Evil
Redcloak: Where's my holy symbol?
Xykon: Has anyone seen my shoes?
MitD: Didn't you used to have a belt for that robe?
Xykon: And has anyone seen the idiots umbrella? This scene can only exist in transcript without it!
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2020-10-20, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2020-10-20, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-20, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1217 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: Usual SuspectsThat's sound odd to me since ever when i first watch it i never believed Byrne's character would be Söse. The movie and notably Palminteri's character are just pushing too hard toward it, i knew clearly it would be someone else.
Indeed. The one reason people don't always use it, it's because it can hinder your own spellcasters.
That was also my impression for a long time.
You're thinking about Maze or Hallucinatory Terrain, but none of them has such a powerful effect.
So when that wolf reaches the others and they quickly realise he's the focus of a silence spell Xykon being a sorceror will spend sorcery points to cast
Every effect other that cleaning and soiling last for only one hour. That includes painting.
Couldn't the Order put the Cloak on a low-level bugbear shaman who would be more willing to discuss and try to carry a message to TDO?Last edited by Petrocorus; 2020-10-20 at 07:46 PM.
Que tous les anciens dieux et les nouveaux protègent la France.
Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF. -- -- Petrocorus's 3.5 Paladin Builds List. -- -- French vs. EnglishOriginally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers