Multiclassing out of Arcane Trickster

[giskard]

I might use y'alls brainstorming power for planning my Arcane Trickster next few levels:)
Currently at 5th level, nearing 6th. Rolled good stats: already capped DEX at 20, and my INT is at a respectable 16. CON is a bit low, only 12, but I was lucky rolling HP when leveling up, so I've ended up surprisingly "tankier" than our ranger. The other stats are average, 12 in charisma being the highest.

Speaking of my fellow party members, they are a Ranger (Hunter w/ longbow), another Rogue (Mastermind), a sorcerer (Divine Soul) and a Bard (Eloquence).

The common denominator is that none of us particularly likes being in melee range when it comes to fighting, but still most of us have the option to fight in melee. The other rogue, the bard and my character, we all can use rapiers, the Ranger has that fighting style that cancels disadvantage even when shooting point blank, and the sorcerer.. well the sorcerer really shouldnt be in melee XD

Recently my character has suffered a really nasty lingering injury and lost an eye. That means disadvantage on EVERY ranged attack, so now my ability to apply sneak attack from range is literally none. It's a bit of a challenge, but I'm still managing.. I'm shifting more and more to the "booming blade + cunning action disengage hit&run tactics". But that puts me more often than not still relatively close to the enemies, and a single uncanny dodge per round, although really useful, is sometimes not enough against bunches of enemies or multiattackers with high to-hit bonuses... So for my next level I'm evaluating the options to multiclass into something that would give more survivability, if that makes sense..

The one that intrigues me the most is artificer, because it would give me access to shields, a substantial bump to AC, and gives way more spellcasting options than AT does: rituals, 2 more cantrips, preparing spells from a big list! my character had a gnome illusionist/tinkerer as a mentor, so it makes sense character-wise... oh, also! the DM explicitly told us that artificers would have the necessary skill to make prosthetic eyes/limbs, which would be really nice for my missing eye and also for our sorcerer who just lost a hand.....

So, artificer is VERY appealing, but getting into the rules for multiclassing different spellcasting classes, I'm realizing I'd end up with less spell slot than I currently have. Arcane Trickster lv5 has THREE lv1 spell slots. AT5/Art1 would be the equivalent of a 1st level spellcaster because of how the rounding down works, so would have only TWO lv1 spell slots.. I don't know, at least for the spellcasting part, this level up would feel somewhat "bittersweet"..

Do I wait another level before branching out of Arcane Trickster? I thought this to be the best branching point because at lv6 Arcane Trickster gets only two expertises, and having another rogue in the party, I can foresee quite the overlapping. But if I get lv6, I would HAVE to get to lv7 for that sweet Evasion, and then the lv8 ASI/Feat will also look very tempting :/

I'm torn! What's your opinion?

[x3n0n]

So, artificer is VERY appealing, but getting into the rules for multiclassing different spellcasting classes, I'm realizing I'd end up with less spell slot than I currently have. Arcane Trickster lv5 has THREE lv1 spell slots. AT5/Art1 would be the equivalent of a 1st level spellcaster because of how the rounding down works, so would have only TWO lv1 spell slots.. I don't know, at least for the spellcasting part, this level up would feel somewhat "bittersweet"..

I don't think it works like that. Each of your classes contributes independently, and Artificer specifically says you round up on its contribution in multiclassing (unlike the other half-casters), so that combo is a 2nd-level caster (AT: 1 plus Artificer: 1). A 6th level in AT would get you another level, as would the 3rd level in Artificer.

[RogueJK]

My last AT got a lot of mileage out of some Bladesinger levels. Bladesong's extra speed and +INTMOD to AC and Concentration checks made a big difference in melee. With your 16 INT, that would be a higher AC bonus than a shield. And you wouldn't have to worry about sheathing/unsheathing/dropping/picking up your rapier like you would if holding a shield, since you don't have the Warcaster feat. Plus you'd have greater access to defensive spells to add to your staying power in melee, as well as Shadow Blade for more damage (which can be upcast into your eventual higher level spell slots for levels which you don't have any spells known).

If you decide to go this route, I suggest ~3 levels of Bladesinger now (mainly for 2nd level spells like Blur/Mirror Image/Shadow Blade/Invisibility), then take Rogue to 9ish (with exactly where you stop depending on what specific class features you're wanting), then Bladesinger from there.


However, while that will help with your melee survivability, that won't really make you a frontliner that your party seems to need. So you might also consider switching to something like a Battlemaster Fighter for 3-6 levels, picking up more HP, a Shield and Defense fighting style for better AC, and some Battlemaster maneuvers for greater melee/defense options and to help generate Advantage for Sneak Attack damage, along with possibly Extra Attack if you go 5+ levels (although since you have Booming Blade already it lessens the need for that, and you could get back to Rogue levels and focus more on single attack Booming Blade Sneak Attacks).

Battlemaster would limit your spellcasting ability, but make you a more effective melee frontliner.

[bendking]

I literally posted such a build yesterday. Hope it helps you out.
Basically, I think the 2 level Bladesinger dip might be nice in the short run, but it delays your spell progression too much. That's partly why I go for Bladesinger 6 in the above build, which also gets me an Extra Attack which makes the build surpass straight AT for damage and have much better casting.
It does mean the build's melee damage suffers a little until that magical level 10, but I think it's totally worth it

[jojosskul]

You would definitely be a 2nd level caster since Artificer rounds up. That first level of Artificer, however, is going to be somewhat awkward.

Artificer HAS to have their tools in hand, or one of their infused items in hand, to cast Artificer spells. That means with your first level you'll have to hold your thieve's tools, for example, in hand to cast ANY spell.

Once you get infusions at level 2 this gets easier. Take either enhanced defense or enhanced weapon (or both) and infuse your Rapier or your Shield (or both) and they now count as your arcane focus for your Artificer spells. However, they DON'T count as a focus for your Arcane Trickster spells. If you use enhanced arcane focus that solves that problem, but then you're holding an arcane focus in one hand and likely your rapier in the other, so no shield. Or infuse your rapier and keep a free hand for a component pouch for your AT spells.

[Keravath]

The bladesinger dip is probably one of the best options for an arcane trickster. Full spell casting, more spells, rituals etc. Improved AC with bladesong, extra movement and a bonus to concentration saves.

However, you might want to see if you can find an 11th level cleric who can cast heal (6th level spell). One of its effects is curing blindness. At 6th level already, it shouldn't be out of the question just be cautious when asking the DM about temples and their priests so he might not catch on that you are looking for a cure :) ... you want him to commit to saying that high level priests exist who would be able to cast a spell before broaching what you could do to fix the condition. Given the side effects the DM is imposing of being blind in one eye ... I think the character would definitely have fixing the condition as a priority.

[RogueJK]

That's partly why I go for Bladesinger 6 in the above build, which also gets me an Extra Attack

Extra Attack is nice, since it gives you two chances to land your once-per-turn Sneak Attack (and two chances to hit with an upcast Shadow Blade). But Booming Blade can help make up some of the difference of not having Extra Attack at higher levels if you decide to go a different route that doesn't get that.

[bendking]

Extra Attack is nice, since it gives you two chances to land your once-per-turn Sneak Attack (and two chances to hit with an upcast Shadow Blade). But Booming Blade can help make up some of the difference of not having Extra Attack at higher levels if you decide to go a different route that doesn't get that.

Yes, Booming Blade is great. I took it into account in my calculations. AT 4/BS 6 puts out more damage with Shadow Blade and Extra Attack than AT 10 with Shadow Blade and Booming Blade.
The point of Extra Attack isn't really that it lets surpass AT damage (although that is a great plus), but that it lets you keep up with a straight AT for damage while having improved casting, utility, and AC.

[Gignere]

Yes, Booming Blade is great. I took it into account in my calculations. AT 4/BS 6 puts out more damage with Shadow Blade and Extra Attack than AT 10 with Shadow Blade and Booming Blade.
The point of Extra Attack isn't really that it lets surpass AT damage (although that is a great plus), but that it lets you keep up with a straight AT for damage while having improved casting, utility, and AC.

Does it put out more if say pure AT took sentinel and can get off turn sneak attacks with shadow blade? The 10 AT has an extra ASI.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Does it put out more if say pure AT took sentinel and can get off turn sneak attacks with shadow blade? The 10 AT has an extra ASI.

Exactly! Sentinel is a great pick by levels 8 or 10 in order to execute the famous combo alongside Mirror Image.

I believe an AT 7+ has great tools to improve survivability (besides strategic positioning through Cunning Action to avoid getting hit):

- Uncanny Dodge at 5 offers good damage mitigation
- Evasion at 6 makes sure AoE targeting DEX are nothing
- At level 7+ you are able to get the right spells that really increase your defensive capabilities: namely Shield and Mirror Image.

Having said that, I do believe Bladesinger is a great Wizard school to multiclass, but as a Rogue you already have consistent ways to compensate your poor AC.

Saving Throws, however, are a true pain for DEX proficient classes. CON and WIS saves are the most dangerous and you don’t have enough ASIs to cover that through low/mid levels. That’s why I believe War Wizard offers great features to alleviate this weakness -- my ideal class breakdown would be AT Rogue 7+ / War Wizard 2.

[iTreeby]

I think blood hunter is a fantastic class to consider if you can get dm permission. You can get some int based pact magic among other things.

[CTurbo]

I'd take at least 2 levels of Bladesinger if not more. Bladesinger and Arcane Trickster are just a great match IMO.

You could take some Fighter levels if you really want to add some more tankiness. Eldritch Knight plays nicely with AT, and any Rogue would love to have some Battlemaster levels for off turn sneak attacks from Riposte.

[bendking]

Does it put out more if say pure AT took sentinel and can get off turn sneak attacks with shadow blade? The 10 AT has an extra ASI.

I did not take that into calculation since it's not easy to take that into account for DPR calculations. It obviously wouldn't trigger every round.
That said, you could still take Sentinel with my build, you'd simply have less Sneak Attack die (3d6 less), though more Shadow Blade damage (1d8).
I will concede that it's an advantage for the straight AT, though not a big one.

[Lyracian]

I usually take a level of Wizard at 6 to get the full spell book access and ritual casting. Then I carry on with Trickster and swap out all my first level known spells for second level ones.

Second level Wizard does offer good options but I seem to struggle to fine a slot. All the nice options with Evasion, Ambush, Reliable Talent and more ASI.