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2020-10-21, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
Magus of the Scales Prestige Class
Magus of the Scales
There is so little difference, between the living dead and the dying living. One fades smoothly to the other.
There is a dark symmetry between the magics of healing and necromancy. For every horror the necromancer inflicts, there is a tool for healer to undo it. Some spellcasters are intrigued by this duality, and find their studies in one area drawing them into the other. These practictioners refer to themselves as Magi of the Scales, and they wield powers over both life and death. Some begin life as healers who seek greater understanding of the necromantic creatures they confront, others as necromancers who seek protection from the dangers of the undead with which they deal. But by the end of their paths, many of them find there is no difference at all between the two disciplines.
Prerequisites:
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 9 ranks
Spells: Must be able to cast 3rd level spells. Must know Necromancy spells at each level of spells he can cast or must know (Healing) spells at each level of spells he can cast.
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills: The magus of the scale's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points: 2 + Intelligence bonus
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Turning/Rebuking, Dual Channel, Spell Knowledge I +1 level of existing spellcasting class 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Lay on Hands +1 level of existing spellcasting class 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Preserve the Flesh, Spell Knowledge II +1 level of existing spellcasting class 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Improved Lay on Hands +1 level of existing spellcasting class 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Distant Channeling, Spell Knowledge III +1 level of existing spellcasting class 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 True Return +1 level of existing spellcasting class 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 Final Death, Spell Knowledge IV +1 level of existing spellcasting class 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Restore the Spirit +1 level of existing spellcasting class 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Mastery of Undeath, Spell Knowledge V +1 level of existing spellcasting class 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Perfected Channeling +1 level of existing spellcasting class
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The magus of the scales gains no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spellcasting: Every level, the magus of the scales casts spells (including gaining any new spell slots and spell knowledge) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he had previous to gaining that level.
Turning/Rebuking (Su): The magus of the scales learns to both control and destroy undead creatures. He can either turn or rebuke undead creatures (choosen with each use of this ability). His level for the purpose of turning or rebuking is his character level plus his magus level. This ability is separate from any existing turning or rebuking he has.
Dual Channel (Su): The magus of the scales sees a fundamental symmetry between the energies of life and death and can transmute one to the other with a thought. He can channel positive energy in place of negative energy, or negative energy in place of positive energy. For example, a dread necromancer/magus of the scales could use their Charnel Touch ability to heal living creatures instead of damaging them, and a healer/magus of the scales could use close wounds to heal an undead ally. If an effect channels energy into multiple creatures (such as mass cure light wounds), the magus may select which type of energy is channeled into each creature individually.
Spell Knowledge: The magus of the scales's unique approach to magic provides them with an expanded set of known spells. Spells that appear on the cleric spell list are added at the level where they appear there. Spells that do not appear on the cleric spell list are added at the level they appear on the dread necromancer spell list. Spells that appear on neither list are added at the level indicated.
At 1st level, he adds animate dead, contagation, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, cure serious wounds, cure critical wounds, death ward, enervation, inflict light wounds, inflict moderate wounds, inflict serious wounds, inflict critical wounds, neutralize poison poison, remove curse, remove disease, lesser restoration, and restoration to his list of spells known.
At 3rd level, he adds break enchantment, mass cure light wounds, mass inflict light wounds, raise dead, revenance (Spc), revivify (SpC), and revive undead (SpC)* to his list of spells known.
At 5th level, he adds create undead, harm, heal, mass cure moderate wounds, and mass inflict moderate wounds to his list of spells known.
At 7th level, he adds greater restoration, resurrection, mass cure serious wounds, and mass inflict serious wounds to his list of spells known.
At 9th level, he adds mass cure critical wounds, energy drain, create greater undead, mass inflict critical wounds, mass heal, mass harm (HoH), and true resurrection to his list of spells known.
*: Learned as a 5th level spell.
Lay on Hands (Su): At 2nd level, the body of a magus of the scales becomes so infused with positive and negative energy that it begins to spill out when he touches others. He may channel a number of points of positive or negative energy equal to twice his character level times his Charisma bonus. For example, a dread necromancer 6/magus of the scales 2 with 18 Charisma has a total pool of 64 points of damage or healing. You must make a melee touch attack to use this ability offensively. The pool refreshes when the magus regains spells for the day.
Preserve the Flesh (Su): At 3rd level, the magus of the scales learns to hold the forces of decay at bay. He can use gentle repose at will as a supernatural ability. The caster level is equal to his character level, though it lasts until dismissed. A corpse turned into an undead creature retains the effect.
Improved Lay on Hands (Su): At 4th level, the magus gains greater control over the energies within his body. He can cure (or inflict) more serious conditions. By expending 5 points from his pool, he may remove a point of ability damage, or the conditions fatigued, shaken, sickened, or deafened. By expending 10 points from his pool, he may remove a point of ability drain, or the conditions exhausted, frightened, nauseated, or blinded. He may instead expend twice as many points to inflict the same condition. If he does this, the target is entitled to a fortitue save (DC 10 + 1/2 caster level + charisma bonus) to negate the effect. Conditions other than ability damage last for a number of rounds equal to his caster level.
Distant Channeling (Su): At 5th level, the magus can project the energies he channels out to a great distance. When he casts any cure or inflict spell, or when he uses his Lay on Hands ability, he may do so at a distance of up to 30ft (instead of touch). Any touch attacks required are now ranged touch attacks.
True Return (Su): At 6th level, the magus of the scales's familiarity with the paths of death is such that he can mitigate the suffering of those who pass back through them. When he returns a creature to life (or undeath), that creature does not lose levels or hit dice or ability scores. Additionally, when he himself is returned to life (or undeath), he never loses levels for doing so.
Final Death (Su): At 7th level, the magus of the scales finds that there is nothing in this world that is truly beyond death's grasp. Undead are not immune to his [Death] effects, and their immunity to Fortitude saves that do not effect objects does not extend to these effects.
Restore the Spirit (Su): At 8th level, the magus of the scales learns to call the spirits of the undead back when he animates their bodies. Any mindless undead he creates is awakened, as by awaken undead (SpC). Uncontrolled undead effected in this way are Helpful towards him.
Mastery of Undeath (Su): At 9th level, the magus of the scales has total command over his powers of turning and rebuking. Any creature he rebukes successfully is commanded. Any creature he turns successfully is destroyed. He ignores turn resistance when determining how many HD of undead he effects with a turn or rebuke attempt, or how many undead he can control (but not when determining if undead are effected by turning or rebuking at all).
Perfected Channeling (Su): At 10th level, the magus of the scales becomes even more adept at channeling positive and negative energy. For the purposes of preparing and casting spells, each cure or inflict spell he knows is considered one level lower than it actually is. This only applies for the purposes of determining the spell slot expended. For example, he cannot create scrolls of these spells at lower level and the DCs for saves are not reduced.
Source Abbreviations:
HoH: Heroes of Horror
SpC: Spell Compendium
Spoiler: Authors NotesThis was a concept I saw suggested while reading through an old thread about necromancy. The basic thrust of the idea was that aspiring necromancers don't really get the tools you'd want to be able to safely deal with undead. So here's a PrC that gives them those tools. You get all the various restoration magic you need, plus some abilities about channeling positive or ngeative energy. Obviously the expected entry is Dread Necromancer, but it's also possible to get in as a Healer to pick up some actual offensive abilities. And, of course, you can come in as a Cleric or a Wizard. I don't mind the Cleric entry, but I'd like to give them something like Heal ranks or having turning or rebuking as a prerequisite to stop Wizards from getting in. Unfortunately, Healers don't get turning and Dread Necromancers don't get Heal.Last edited by NigelWalmsley; 2020-10-24 at 09:11 AM.
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2020-10-23, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Magus of the Scales Prestige Class
This is really done and I really like it. Very flavorful and mechanically mostly well done. A few quick comments.
At 10th level, the magus of the scales becomes even more adept at channeling positive and negative energy. For the purposes of preparing and casting spells, each cure or inflict spell he knows is considered one level lower than it actually is.
At 9th level, the magus of the scales has total command over his powers of turning and rebuking. Any creature he rebukes successfully is commanded. Any creature he turns successfully is destroyed. He ignores all turn resistance.Last edited by JoshuaZ; 2020-10-23 at 07:23 PM.
My homebrew:
Spoiler
Completed:
ToB disciplines:
The Narrow Bridge
The Broken Blade
Prestige classess:
Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish
Worthwhile links:
Age of Warriors
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2020-10-23, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
Re: Magus of the Scales Prestige Class
Thank you. Feedback is always appreciated.
This actually makes the spells weaker in terms of save DC and things like a globe of invulnerability. Maybe make clear that this isn't what is intended.
This seems to be overly strong. I'd suggest either allowing a will save or removing the last sentence.
I've updated with these changes, plus a couple of things I realized I hadn't specified properly (they know learn Enervation with a level, and the conditions from Lay on Hands have a duration).
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2020-10-24, 04:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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- CA
- Gender
Re: Magus of the Scales Prestige Class
Alright, I really like the flavor for this class and like the concept you are going for so let me throw in my own two cents. Amusingly enough I have also built a class based around positive/negative energy called Magus. It actually kept throwing me off a bit when I was reviewing this class
Overall Notes: I like the abilities but overall I think you made the class too powerful. It offers no drawbacks, grants some incredibly powerful class features, has no noticeable prerequisites and fully progresses spellcasting. In addition, you scale too many things to character level instead of class level, making this class insanely powerful as a dip class. So apologies in advance if I sound a bit harsh with some of my feedback, I do really like the class XD.
Prerequisites/Chassis: As I mentioned above I would like to see some pre-requisites. Feats (Corpse Crafter or Mastery of Day and Night?), uncommon skill ranks (Heal ranks?) and depending on how much you nerf the class features I would probably also like to see one caster level lost at 1st level.
Skills: The class has a distinct lack of class skills, not inherently bad but if you enter into this class with an int base you are going to quickly run out of class skills. Possible skills to include, Heal (Mostly an irrelevant skill but very fluff appropriate), Ride (Riding undead mounts still takes a check and I believe you get -2 actually), Disguise (Disguising Undead as living), and Diplomacy (A standard for healers). Not sure if you should add all of those but I do think you should add a couple just to give the class some more options.
Turning/Rebuking: Why did you make this automatically scale to character level and add his magus level on top of that? Rebuking/Turning is already an INCREDIBLY powerful ability. Baseline it is not particularly powerful but there is so much item/splatbook support that boosting rebuke/command undead is incredibly risky for game balance. In addition, making this ability separate from their standard turning pools means that this gives another pool of turn undead for any DMM cleric. Now any cleric using DMM can enter Magus and then Sacred Exorcist and get 3 pools of turn undead for persist/twin spell while fulling progressing spellcasting. I would strongly suggest making this ability just progress turn/rebuke undead and to grant it if they don't already have it (At Rebuking level = Magus Level not character level). A 1 level dip for a permanent full rebuke pool is way too powerful. If you want to allow good clerics to rebuke/command just specify that if they came in with turn undead they can swap it to rebuke undead at level 1 regardless of other restrictions or allow their turn/rebuke undead pool to be used for either turn or rebuke undead but it is still drawn from the same 3+cha mod pool of uses per day.
Dual Channel: Very cool, some DM's might consider at will healing at 6th to be a bit strong but thats for DNs only and wands of lesser vigor are cheap by that level. Still I might push it back a level or two just because of how front loaded the class is at the moment.
Spell Knowledge: This is a lot of spells added and adding them to the DN's spell list greatly improves their spell list mostly thanks to their spontaneous casting. Most aren't incredibly powerful so this should be fine but it is a powerful set of spells to add.
Lay on Hands: Your formula given is wrong I think. Twice character level plus charisma modifier is not going to result in 64 points of damage/healing. I assume you mean 2 * (Character Level * Charisma Modifier). Regardless, with Dual Channel this is too much burst damage to be given to a character at this level for free. A character can easily have a +8 charisma modifier at this level. At kevel 8 a 128 negative energy touch attack that has no save to resist is an instant death attack on pretty much any level appropriate enemy. A raging barbarian at 8th level with 22 base con has 116 HP. This one shots the barbarian no save. If you want this to function like lay on hands but have a larger pool I would highly recommend limiting the amount of energy that can be channeled to something like 10+5/Class Level in a single charge or just make it function like a paladin's lay on hands with a Paladin level = Magus Level (Not character level).
Preserve the Flesh: Cool ability, flavorful and I like it. Flavor wise I am not sure I like it being permanent and being an SU ability. It's already at will, it can be applied to all their undead under their control effortlessly. I get that it works this way for ease of use but really it should be an SLA and the idea of a caster just casually at will permanently preventing rot on every undead seems... a bit much for my sense of disbelief.
Improved Lay on Hands: I like it, I wouldn't let them casually remove ability drain though. That is actually supposed to be pretty hard to remove and normally only things with material components or XP costs can remove it. Reduce the duration of the debuff though. Inflicting nauseated for CL rounds is basically a save or die and is the only option that will be used. My suggestion would be to remove ability drain, allow the magus to also spend 20 points of Lay on Hands to remove nauseated, stunned and dazed. If the magus inflicts one of those conditions the duration is only 1d4 rounds instead of CL rounds. Finally most PRC DC's aren't based on CL and are instead class level based and it prevents issues with people boosting CL to absurd heights for unbeatable save DCs. I strongly recommend changing the DC to (10 + Magus Level + Charisma Modifier) to match this convention.
Distant Channeling: I like this ability, does it interact at all with the various Mass Inflict/Cure spells? In addition as a note it might be interesting to allow the Magus to have undead minions deliver his inflict/cure spells like familiars can deliver touch attacks.
True Return: This is way too strong and kind of game breaking to a degree. This basically turns most casts of a 5th level spell into a 9th level one and saves 20k every time its used. I get the idea behind it but I think this needs a rework. Perhaps make it so revivify can be used within 1 round/CL instead of just 1 round?
Final Death: Interesting concept, I would allow undead to add their charisma modifier as a bonus to the saving throw versus these abilities. Otherwise undead bosses just... horribly die to every one of your abilities. At this level undead don't have a fort save that can realistically have a chance at passing a dedicated caster's save or die from their highest level slot.
Restore the Spirit: Cool concept, pretty flavorful but still too powerful. Having them all be helpful regardless of being controlled or not basically means the Magus has infinite undead as most awakened humanoid undead aren't going to have enough int to really think on their own. I would make it only apply to undead he has under his control, once they leave they return to being mindless. The connection to the magus is supplying the energy that their soul needs to connect more strongly to the mindless undead or however you want to fluff it.
Mastery of Undeath: Alright so I am guilty of thinking this was a good idea as well. I have used this ability twice in various necromantic homebrew I have used in the past. I have since removed it from both of them immediately after getting a chance to playtest it. This is ABSOLUTELY too powerful. Both Rebuking and Turn undead can be boosted to a ridiculous degree with items. This ability is basically the ability to instantly command any undead boss you come across with no save and no chance of resisting. Any boss you kill you can animate as a bone creature with create undead and instantly control with no save or way to resist and no way to break out. Do not try to balance things around planar binding that ability is quite literally one of the most broken spells in the game. Dominate Person 1) Gives a saving throw to resist 2) Only works on humanoids 3) Is easily broken out of with any ally casting magic circle and walking next to them or just dispelling the effect 4) Mind affecting and thus at 16th level has to contend with mind blank.
I could very easily build a Magus who could successfully rebuke and command a creature with 40+ HD automatically no save and no ability to ever break out with minimum effort. And that is after implementing my above suggested nerfs to have rebuke undead simply function as normal rather than the super charged version the Magus currently has. This causes major issues in an actual game because any boss the DM sends against you will become your minion as soon as the fight is over. The DM has the option to either cause contrived circumstances where every single boss has their body disintegrate or be destroyed on death or up the difficulty of future encounters dramatically. Neither is a permanent solution as players can spend effort to preserve their enemy's corpses with various spell effects and upping the encounters that dramatically will cause other players to fall behind and even your own character gets eclipsed by your own minions.
This isn't a theoretically situation either this has actually happened to me while playtesting a rebuke undead heavy character in a campaign. Rebuke undead is crazy powerful.
Radiant Servant of Pelor gets the ability to destroy undead with a turn attempt and it is widely considered to be an amazing PRC for clerics. And that is basically it's only worthwhile class features and even then it gets it a limited number of times per day instead of on every turn attempt. Sure it gets the ability much earlier than the Magus but the Magus also gives amazing class features at every level while the Radiant Servant... doesn't to put it mildly
I would change this ability to function where you can control twice as many undead HD at a single time rather than boosting the power of the individual undead you can control. For the turning aspect I would double the amount of HD you can effect with each turning (Not the maximum HD of an undead you can affect but the total number of HD).
Perfected Channeling: Considering how weak most of the various inflict/cure spells are this is actually a bit underwhelming considering the rest of the classes abilities. I might add some ability to make using them more viable. Perhaps being able to quicken a cure/inflict spell 3/day for free, in addition to it's current abilities?
Overall as I said I like the class, I just think its a bit too powerful at the moment. It's far too dip friendly and has no real drawbacks for the many powerful abilities it grants. In addition, I think you are dramatically underestimating the value of Rebuke Undead and your attempts to buff it have rendered the class far too powerful.Last edited by Silva Stormrage; 2020-10-24 at 04:21 AM.
Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
My Homebrew: Here
The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.
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2020-10-24, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
Re: Magus of the Scales Prestige Class
I would too. The issue is that the PrC is supposed to work for either a Healer or a Dread Necromancer. Which, unfortunately, do not have a lot of overlap. Ideally it would require 9 ranks Heal and Turning/Rebuking in addition to the current reqs, but a that point the only people who could qualify without jumping through hoops would be Clerics. Maybe make it "healing spells + heal rank" or "necromancy spells + turning"? That keeps out the Wizards at least. I also had it requiring Tomb-Tainted Soul at one point, but that locks out Healers qualifying at all because for some reason no one who's neutral or evil has figured out that having your allies alive is more useful than having them dead.
Skills: The class has a distinct lack of class skills, not inherently bad but if you enter into this class with an int base you are going to quickly run out of class skills. Possible skills to include, Heal (Mostly an irrelevant skill but very fluff appropriate), Ride (Riding undead mounts still takes a check and I believe you get -2 actually), Disguise (Disguising Undead as living), and Diplomacy (A standard for healers). Not sure if you should add all of those but I do think you should add a couple just to give the class some more options.
Turning/Rebuking: Why did you make this automatically scale to character level and add his magus level on top of that? Rebuking/Turning is already an INCREDIBLY powerful ability. Baseline it is not particularly powerful but there is so much item/splatbook support that boosting rebuke/command undead is incredibly risky for game balance.
I would strongly suggest making this ability just progress turn/rebuke undead and to grant it if they don't already have it (At Rebuking level = Magus Level not character level).
Dual Channel: Very cool, some DM's might consider at will healing at 6th to be a bit strong but thats for DNs only and wands of lesser vigor are cheap by that level. Still I might push it back a level or two just because of how front loaded the class is at the moment.
Spell Knowledge: This is a lot of spells added and adding them to the DN's spell list greatly improves their spell list mostly thanks to their spontaneous casting. Most aren't incredibly powerful so this should be fine but it is a powerful set of spells to add.
Lay on Hands: Your formula given is wrong I think.
I would highly recommend limiting the amount of energy that can be channeled to something like 10+5/Class Level in a single charge or just make it function like a paladin's lay on hands with a Paladin level = Magus Level (Not character level).
Improved Lay on Hands: I like it, I wouldn't let them casually remove ability drain though. That is actually supposed to be pretty hard to remove and normally only things with material components or XP costs can remove it.
Inflicting nauseated for CL rounds is basically a save or die and is the only option that will be used.
I strongly recommend changing the DC to (10 + Magus Level + Charisma Modifier) to match this convention.
Distant Channeling: I like this ability, does it interact at all with the various Mass Inflict/Cure spells? In addition as a note it might be interesting to allow the Magus to have undead minions deliver his inflict/cure spells like familiars can deliver touch attacks.
True Return: This is way too strong and kind of game breaking to a degree. This basically turns most casts of a 5th level spell into a 9th level one and saves 20k every time its used. I get the idea behind it but I think this needs a rework. Perhaps make it so revivify can be used within 1 round/CL instead of just 1 round?
Final Death: Interesting concept, I would allow undead to add their charisma modifier as a bonus to the saving throw versus these abilities. Otherwise undead bosses just... horribly die to every one of your abilities. At this level undead don't have a fort save that can realistically have a chance at passing a dedicated caster's save or die from their highest level slot.
Restore the Spirit: Cool concept, pretty flavorful but still too powerful. Having them all be helpful regardless of being controlled or not basically means the Magus has infinite undead as most awakened humanoid undead aren't going to have enough int to really think on their own. I would make it only apply to undead he has under his control, once they leave they return to being mindless. The connection to the magus is supplying the energy that their soul needs to connect more strongly to the mindless undead or however you want to fluff it.
This causes major issues in an actual game because any boss the DM sends against you will become your minion as soon as the fight is over.
Perfected Channeling: Considering how weak most of the various inflict/cure spells are this is actually a bit underwhelming considering the rest of the classes abilities. I might add some ability to make using them more viable. Perhaps being able to quicken a cure/inflict spell 3/day for free, in addition to it's current abilities?Last edited by NigelWalmsley; 2020-10-24 at 09:12 AM.
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2020-10-24, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2019
Re: Magus of the Scales Prestige Class
as a prerequisite to stop Wizards from getting inJoin the 3.5e Discord server: https://discord.gg/ehGFz6M3nJ