non incorporeal non undead template applicable to humanoids that grants immortality?

[newguydude1]

i know i know, i made a similar thread before. but things have changed. i cant take a prc that grants immortality as a capstone. and i dont want to be undead or incorporeal, so i made a new thread instead of bumping the old one.

best i got atm is spellwarped creature template (+3 la, turns me into an aberration) stacked with element creature (+3 la, turns me into an elemental) but i dont want to resort to template stacking unless i absolutely have to.

templates will be acquired by casting wish and following savage species race change rules.

rules:
no undead
no incorporeal
outsider must be stated to be immortal. too many pure outsiders are not immortal so you cant assume they are immortal by default.
fey must be stated to be immortal. afaik feys immortality or longevity is chosen by the dm. i want it chosen by raw not dm.
no dragon magazine
no prc. i dont have the class levels for it.

[Doctor Despair]

Take the "Wedded to History" feat

[noob]

i know i know, i made a similar thread before. but things have changed. i cant take a prc that grants immortality as a capstone. and i dont want to be undead or incorporeal, so i made a new thread instead of bumping the old one.

best i got atm is spellwarped creature template (+3 la, turns me into an aberration) stacked with element creature (+3 la, turns me into an elemental) but i dont want to resort to template stacking unless i absolutely have to.

templates will be acquired by casting wish and following savage species race change rules.

rules:
no undead
no incorporeal
outsider must be stated to be immortal. too many pure outsiders are not immortal so you cant assume they are immortal by default.
fey must be stated to be immortal. afaik feys immortality or longevity is chosen by the dm. i want it chosen by raw not dm.

Just become a Deathless.
Die then get reanimated as one with the create Deathless or create greater Deathless spell.

[newguydude1]

Take the "Wedded to History" feat

forgot to include no dragon

Just become a Deathless.
Die then get reanimated as one with the create Deathless or create greater Deathless spell.

no undead.

[Thurbane]

no undead.

Deathless are not undead despite appearances and sharing many traits. They are their own, separate, type.

This may be useful - Immortality: A Guide to Eternal Life

While not a template, the Gray Portrait (an artifact from Champions of Ruin) does this.

[Venger]

Deathless aren't undead. They're a separate type.

All fey are immortal unless killed.

When you say you can't take a prc that grants immortality do you mean you can't take any prc that changes your type as a capstone, like green star adept or winterhaunt of iborighu? Or something else?

[newguydude1]

Deathless are not undead despite appearances and sharing many traits. They are their own, separate, type..

ok theyre not undead but they still look like undead and thats why i dont want to be a deathless.

All fey are immortal unless killed.

do you have a citation for that? because last time i asked, theres an article on the 3.5 website that says a feys lifespan is a dms decision. they either are immortal or live very long time. but a citation in a book would trump web article so....

When you say you can't take a prc that grants immortality do you mean you can't take any prc that changes your type as a capstone, like green star adept or winterhaunt of iborighu? Or something else?

yeah back when i was relying on a mirror mephit i went elemental savant that turned me into an elemental. but this time im going dweomerkeeper so i dont have any room for a class.

[Venger]

do you have a citation for that? because last time i asked, theres an article on the 3.5 website that says a feys lifespan is a dms decision. they either are immortal or live very long time. but a citation in a book would trump web article so....

Mortal hunters are fiends that specialize in killing mortals. For purposes of this prestige class, “mortal” is a term
meaning any creature not of the outsider, undead, construct,
or fey types.

Do you have a link to that web article? I've never heard of that.

You could just get it through race (elan, killoren, warforged, etc)

[newguydude1]

Do you have a link to that web article? I've never heard of that.

http://archive.wizards.com/default.a.../fey/20040820a

You could just get it through race (elan, killoren, warforged, etc)

id turn into a succubus. but im a illumian naenhoon thing and i want to keep it. cause persistent limited wish emulating positive energy aura is nice.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Keep your body on a timeless plane or demiplane, such as the Astral Plane (which is one of the easiest planes to get to). Either buy a scroll of astral projection or use one of the planar binding spells to bind a nightmare (or use shadowcraft mage to craft one using an illusion spell). Use astral projection to adventure. Your body will not age, and if you die, you'll just end up right back on your timeless plane.

[newguydude1]

Keep your body on a timeless plane or demiplane, such as the Astral Plane (which is one of the easiest planes to get to). Either buy a scroll of astral projection or use one of the planar binding spells to bind a nightmare (or use shadowcraft mage to craft one using an illusion spell). Use astral projection to adventure. Your body will not age, and if you die, you'll just end up right back on your timeless plane.

and the near epic monsters will know what im doing, grab a silver sword, and cut the cord and kill me. or teleport to me and coup de grace me. so this requires a metric **** ton of contingencies and fortifying your place of rest and i dont want to do that. i dont like being tied down even if its my own demiplane.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

and the near epic monsters will know what im doing, grab a silver sword, and cut the cord and kill me. or teleport to me and coup de grace me. so this requires a metric **** ton of contingencies and fortifying your place of rest and i dont want to do that. i dont like being tied down even if its my own demiplane.

If a near-epic monster wants to kill you, you're probably going to die regardless.

[nijineko]

I take it the Epic Destinies for 3.5 are not going to work for you either? You eventually get immortality with those.

There is one prestige that grants immortality at 1st, but you have to be an exalted female, with some hefty entry requirements.

I assume that Dungeon is off the table if Dragon is? Since there is an item that grants immortality of a sort there too.

If you can qualify for the Hide Life 9th level wiz/sor spell, you can become immortal as long as your severed body part isn't destroyed.

Managing to acquire Divine Rank 0 (at least) will do the trick as well. More of a DM cooperative method, however, unless you want to risk book throwing shenanigans.

Just a few thoughts.

[Venger]

He said no dragon. Were the epic destinies reprinted elsewhere?

[nijineko]

He said no dragon. Were the epic destinies reprinted elsewhere?

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned them.

[Thurbane]

Epic Destinies in D&D 3.5

All fey are immortal unless killed.

That's not necessarily true; some Fey have listed age categories and a maximum age, such as Dusklings and Uldra.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A psychoactive skin of proteus. Each time you use metamorphosis, you end up in a young adult form. So when you're not actively chewing face as a dragon or whatever, turn into an elan, which is immortal. Every time you change form, you'll become young adult again. And if you end up getting coma'd for a few hundred years, since your default form is 'elan,' you'll only have to worry about aging penalties (but not death) until you metamorphosis again.

And if you have the psychoactive skin grafted onto you permanently...

If you're worried about dispelling, Ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood has devices, which are nonmagical versions of magic items. Use one of those, instead, since they can't be dispelled, disjoined, AMF'd, or dead magic'd.

[newguydude1]

im not interested in life support. im not interested in dying in an amf, dead magic field, after a thief steals the item, etc. i want to be immortal like a succubus is. no strings attached and nothing takes it away. thats why i chose templates. no life support. no horcrux. no achilles heel. just plain immortality, no strings attached.

I assume that Dungeon is off the table if Dragon is? Since there is an item that grants immortality of a sort there too.

yes. 1st party books and web supplements for those books only. so no pure web supplements either.

Managing to acquire Divine Rank 0 (at least) will do the trick as well. More of a DM cooperative method, however, unless you want to risk book throwing shenanigans. .

yeah im trying to go down from template stacking. divine rank is a jump up.

Epic Destinies in D&D 3.5

ill give it a read.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

im not interested in life support. im not interested in dying in an amf, dead magic field, after a thief steals the item, etc. i want to be immortal like a succubus is. no strings attached and nothing takes it away. thats why i chose templates. no life support. no horcrux. no achilles heel. just plain immortality, no strings attached.

The only three ways for someone to take your immortality away in the case of a device psychoactive skin of proteus are 1.) to prevent you from ever using your psychoactive skin for long enough that you die of old age (which isn't exactly easy, even if you're metamorphosis'd into a mayfly), 2.) to convince you to change back to your original form after your lifespan would normally be up (which is also not exactly easy, especially if you add a protection from evil effect to it for cheap), or 3.) flay your skin off (in which case, it's easier to just kill you; and you'll probably die from it anyway).

And it's not like you can't do multiples of these.

[noob]

So the not undead rule is an aesthetic rule?
Just use one of the thousands of solutions to change how you look.
And succubi are not unkillable: just take them into their homeworld and kill them and they are dead.
So if you impose to not have a weak point then you need to get unkillability or else not having a weak point changes nothing because your body is a weak point.

Hey you did not forbid constructs so you are fine with being one?
I believe there is a bunch of ways to become one such as mindswap on a construct temporarily made vulnerable to mindswap.

Having an horcrux is 100% superior to not having one: if you do not have one and you are killed then you are dead.
If you have one and are killed you are not dead and if you have one and it gets destroyed you still are not dead: you need to lose both at the same time.
Horcruxes are not weak points : your body is one.

So as long as you do not fix the vulnerability problem of your body you should maximise the number of ways to recover from death: clones, phylacteries (not because you want to become a lich but rather because as a lich you can resurrect yourself while as a dead you can not), Mind imprints in thousand of magical items that wants to bring you back, loyal minions ready to cast resurrection, the ring of nine lives, some way to destroy your body when someone casts trap the soul or imprison and so on.

Obviously the only solution to have no weak points is becoming an aleax.
So the only way to be truly immortal is mind swap with an aleax of yourself and destroying your previous body forever.

Of course since you probably want to be easily killable and vulnerable and to have an extremely short life you should not get any of the things that increase your odds of survival and instead just become a worms that walks.(it is not an undead it is an aberration)

[newguydude1]

So the not undead rule is an aesthetic rule?
Just use one of the thousands of solutions to change how you look.

its both aesthetic and lore. i dont want to be rotting flesh. i dont want to be a dead corpse moving like a puppet through magic. and i dont want such a thing to be my true form once my polymorph wears off and such. i dont want to be undead. or deathless.

And succubi are not unkillable: just take them into their homeworld and kill them and they are dead.
So if you impose to not have a weak point then you need to get unkillability or else not having a weak point changes nothing because your body is a weak point.

by immortal i mean never die of old age and never grow old. eternal youth. the succubus reforming in the abyss was never a factor. elementals, fiends, constructs, theyre all fine.

Hey you did not forbid constructs so you are fine with being one?
I believe there is a bunch of ways to become one such as mindswap on a construct temporarily made vulnerable to mindswap.

yeah. frostburn also says simulacrum is explicitly immortal so swapping bodies with one works too. but dm ruled only way to swap bodies is psionics and no psionics in this campaign this time around.

Having an horcrux is 100% superior to not having one: if you do not have one and you are killed then you are dead.
If you have one and are killed you are not dead and if you have one and it gets destroyed you still are not dead: you need to lose both at the same time.
Horcruxes are not weak points : your body is one.

theres a difference between a horcrux being just a bonus like a lich phylactery except better because totally replaceable, and being 100% reliant on it to the point if it gets destroyed your ****ed. succubus with hide life can replace the destroyed finger. old age human staying alive with hide life will die the moment the finger is destroyed.

[noob]

its both aesthetic and lore. i dont want to be rotting flesh. i dont want to be a dead corpse moving like a puppet through magic. and i dont want such a thing to be my true form once my polymorph wears off and such. i dont want to be undead. or deathless.



by immortal i mean never die of old age and never grow old. eternal youth. the succubus reforming in the abyss was never a factor. elementals, fiends, constructs, theyre all fine.



yeah. frostburn also says simulacrum is explicitly immortal so swapping bodies with one works too. but dm ruled only way to swap bodies is psionics and no psionics in this campaign this time around.

theres a difference between a horcrux being just a bonus like a lich phylactery except better because totally replaceable, and being 100% reliant on it to the point if it gets destroyed your ****ed. succubus with hide life can replace the destroyed finger. old age human staying alive with hide life will die the moment the finger is destroyed.

So become a lich or undying then become a worms that walks this way you are not a puppet: you are made out of countless thinking worms and you still have a phylactery as a pure bonus that you now cram in a demiplane you made yourself.

By the way deathless never rots and you can make so your polymorph never wears off (grafted device phylactery of change: the only way to remove it from you involves killing you first)
you can even skip the magically animated part: use a create deathless caused by a device so you are now non magical, non rotting and can not be unpolymorphed without someone killing you first.

[newguydude1]

So become a lich or undying then become a worms that walks this way you are not a puppet: you are made out of countless thinking worms and you still have a phylactery as a pure bonus that you now cram in a demiplane you made yourself.

worm that walks has no la, and this is template stacking, which i'm trying to go down from.

By the way deathless never rots and you can make so your polymorph never wears off (grafted device phylactery of change: the only way to remove it from you involves killing you first)
you can even skip the magically animated part: use a create deathless caused by a device so you are now non magical, non rotting and can not be unpolymorphed without someone killing you first.

i hate corpses. stop trying to convince me that ill like what i hate. i hate corpses. and i hate polymorph because once its dispelled my true disgusting corpse form will show up. i hate corpses.

[noob]

worm that walks has no la, and this is template stacking, which i'm trying to go down from.



i hate corpses. stop trying to convince me that ill like what i hate. i hate corpses. and i hate polymorph because once its dispelled my true disgusting corpse form will show up. i hate corpses.

It can not be dispelled if it is from a device.
If you are alive you will become a corpse on dying.
Therefore you can not avoid your opponents turning you in a corpse unless becoming a construct, a swarm(because swarms disperse instead of leaving a corpse) or an incorporeal thing: those disperse when destroyed.

Living creatures are just corpses that are not aware of it yet(until that illusion is destroyed with damage).
Even outsiders are walking corpses.(Yes outsiders leaves corpses when killed)
By the way you can also pick human heritage and always have the humanoid type then you can become a lich without changing type thus proving there is no meaningful differences between an undead and a living creature.

Somehow in your mind dispelling something that literally can not dispelled and is not a spell is easier than killing someone while killing someone is infinitely easier.

To get the power to dispel something that is not a spell you need powers as much extreme as iron heart surge(which can literally dispel gravity, the inexorable passage of time, the possibility to exist, the concept of love and so on) or truename dispell which gives omniscience and allows to remove everything you want from reality(including stuff like "the possibility to be my opponent") or abuse the power of sarrukhs.
With any of the listed powers your opponents could turn you in a corpse retroactively for all eternity even if you never had been one before.

If your opponents are doing enough theoretic optimisation to dispel something that is the effect of a device(and therefore not a spell) you already had lost a long time ago.
Your character is maybe already an undead but just not aware of it because some of your omnipotent opponents were aware that you hated being one even when it was impossible for anyone to know it.

By the way since a huge portion of the incorporeal creatures are souls or shadows it means you should remove your soul and your shadow because it is "gross" to have a soul or a shadow since you consider it is bad to be incorporeal.

[newguydude1]

ok

does anywhere say shadow creatures (creatures native to plane of shadow) are immortal? theres a template that makes you into a shadow creature at +2.

3.0 pseudonatural creature has an la, but the 3.5 version doesnt from lords of madness. boo.

the best template i found is dust-stuffed from explorers handbook. +5 la and turns me into a construct with the living construct subtype. its absolutely hilarious that its own sample dust-stuffed creature didnt change its type to construct. man who makes these stat blocks.

i guess these are my only options. template stacking into a spell warped fire element creature, dust-stuffed creature, or hopefully someone will find a piece of lore that shadow creatures are immortal.

[Segev]

Either wish to become an elan with all your memories and levels intact, or with that you can retain all your memories and levels when you become one and undergo the transformation ritual. (If you’re not human and playing in 3.5, you’ll have to do the former.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Either wish to become an elan with all your memories and levels intact, or with that you can retain all your memories and levels when you become one and undergo the transformation ritual. (If you’re not human and playing in 3.5, you’ll have to do the former.)

You could always store your memories (ie, XP) in a thought bottle, undergo a regular elan ritual, and then recover your XP. Or you could do the thought bottle and wish for the transformation.

If the thought bottle doesn't work after elanification for whatever reason, you could always use the wish to undo the transformation, I guess.

[newguydude1]

Either wish to become an elan with all your memories and levels intact, or with that you can retain all your memories and levels when you become one and undergo the transformation ritual. (If you’re not human and playing in 3.5, you’ll have to do the former.)

how does that let me retain illumian naenhoon?

[Segev]

how does that let me retain illumian naenhoon?

Ah, it doesn't. I missed what race you started as and that you were trying to retain it.

If you are willing to go pretty evil, you could make a ton of living zombies to slow your aging to a crawl. (See the Life Leech ability.)

It's going to require regular repetition, but clone can be used to keep yourself at more or less the same age. Grow the clone now, preserve it for years, and then when you're uncomfortably old, kill yourself and revive in the clone that is the age you were when you created it. You can discuss with your DM the option of deliberately halting the clone at a younger age than you are now; this isn't an explicit option in 3e, though in 5e it is and I think in 2e and 1e the clone's 2d4 month growth time being interrupted led to the same result (though I could be misremembering).

[newguydude1]

Ah, it doesn't. I missed what race you started as and that you were trying to retain it.

If you are willing to go pretty evil, you could make a ton of living zombies to slow your aging to a crawl. (See the Life Leech ability.)

It's going to require regular repetition, but clone can be used to keep yourself at more or less the same age. Grow the clone now, preserve it for years, and then when you're uncomfortably old, kill yourself and revive in the clone that is the age you were when you created it. You can discuss with your DM the option of deliberately halting the clone at a younger age than you are now; this isn't an explicit option in 3e, though in 5e it is and I think in 2e and 1e the clone's 2d4 month growth time being interrupted led to the same result (though I could be misremembering).

steal life does it better but i dont like it because it needs full moon for some reason, and being imprisoned for a century is a thing in d&d. i'm looking for no strings attached immortality that has no weaknesses like hide life does, is not undead because i hate corpses, not incorporeal because if you wander into a dead magic zone your adventuring career ends right there, and lets me retain illumian naenhoon.

if it werent for the last part id just turn myself into a succubus because a fiend is explicitly immortal with no strings attached. but after spying my eye on persistent suffer the flesh, i want persistent naenhoon even after i got free wishes.

but........... i just realized that i could probably just use an 8th level spell slot and cast persistent suffer the flesh directly. lol.

still though, i am interested in what im seeking in this thread. but it seems like even in the vastness of d&d 3.5, what im looking for doesnt exist without template stacking. so many people here pitching their ideas and none of them fit the bill means that what im looking for is impossible. sucks.