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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Arkansas, U.S.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Advice on swamp dungeon maps?

    The "Dungeon" I have in mind is a swamp. Stands of trees, acidic waters (this swamp is home to a very old black dragon, though she's been asleep for the past decade.), quicksand, etc...

    Not being so densely wooded as a forest, I'll have to rely on other tricks.... The swamp is constantly covered with a thick fog, and is unnaturally dark year round, even during the day.

    The ruins of an ancient civilization are prevalent throughout the swamp, and they showcase the architectural styles of dwarves mixed with elves.

    The overall CR I'm going for is 6-7 in Pathfinder, though here I'm not looking for advice pertaining to any specific system. I'm more looking for advice on mapping out the "Dungeon" in roll20.
    Last edited by MonkeySage; 2020-10-25 at 01:38 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Perth, West Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Advice on swamp dungeon maps?

    When it comes to physical maps, Google is getting good enough that if you type in 'swamp battlemap' or 'swamp battle map' you'll be swamped (heh heh heh) with beautifully-done maps that suit your purposes.

    More generally, an outdoor 'dungeon' conceptually isn't really that different to an indoor dungeon. It's still a series of encounters linked to one another by physical proximity. The difference is that the indoor dungeon can be more easily mapped out on a square-by-square basis since the whole structure is made up of tunnels or passages connecting one place to another. This, in turn, allows the party to make certain kinds of tactical decisions such as starting encounters from up corridors and the like. Unless you're determined to do some sort of hexcrawl, that approach isn't really viable for a swamp tens of miles wide.

    In the case of the outdoor dungeon, I think there's really two types of player gambits that you need to be prepared for:
    (1) "What if we try to cross from X to Z rather than follow the swamp trail from X to Y to Z?" and
    (2) "What if we want to scout out the site where we're going, snipe from the woods, and then slide away when confronted, until the enemy is weakened enough for a direct confrontation?"

    For item (1), the answer in most cases should really be: "Sure, but..." where the 'but' is a considerable loss of time, direction, resources and/or possibly player health. If not indeed trying to trailbreak and finding that the route they're trying turns impassable about halfway through, forcing them to turn back to area Y. The reason there are distinct paths from site X to Y to Z is because they're the safest options. You can allow the players the option of trying to trailbreak straight through the woods, but if it's a trackless swamp otherwise, it becomes another sort of minigame in between, composed of Survival checks and at least the possibility of random encounters. Indeed the random encounters don't necessarily have to happen, but can be motivators for interesting choices: maybe while trying to trailbash through the swamp, they come across an indication that if they keep going in this direction, they will cross what looks like a Shambling Mound's territory, but if they go around they will deal with what looks like very swampy ground which will take more time to go through.

    Or as said you can just drop screwjobs on them. They wade through an area of the swamp, they pick up leeches of a fairly significant kind that suck blood and leave you with -4 to STR for a day.

    For item (2), it's not that different to a mini-dungeon encounter. But it should be made clear to the players that if they're going to try kiting (which is really all this is), that tactic may well have been tried in the past by other adventurers ... with the result that the monsters occupying the site often do counter-kiting, i.e. sending out scouts or posting weak guards which have to be dealt with. Indeed you could render said scouts part of the total budget of enemies for the scene, if the party wants to kite and take out scouts before moving in, that's fine - while a kick-in-Shrek's-door approach will lead to the party having to fight reinforcements from the scouts or pickets as they come in. And kiting itself will carry consequences: vantage points may be havens for leeches, or scouting the place you might run into quicksand, or whatever.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Australia

    Default Re: Advice on swamp dungeon maps?

    Kiting might be tricky for the characters if the enemies are local and clever - they know shortcuts, can move through/over the terrain more quickly and know where the hiding spots are. Could be fun to have something like "swamp goblins" ambush the party while they're kiting some big dumb ogre or the like.

    I think the best option is to prepare a map with some zones marked. Most monsters won't chase out of their zone and each zone might have some differences - more or less pools, big lakes or little ponds, trees or reeds. They don't have to be very different, or even different at all.
    Just narrate them into the swamp, have them make normal stealth rolls and perception checks as needed.
    Don't worry about mapping, don't ask the players to make choices, they're heading in and trying to pick the best path. Ask them what they think a good path looks like and let that influences your description. Then have some encounters. You can choose the order, or roll for what they encounter or have some really broad descriptions which will take them to different encounters, eg "If they try to stick to high ground, they come to a low broad hill which is drier. That's where the owlbear made it's home" or "If they head a straight toward the centre as they can, the first thing they find is a temple building with trees growing out of it (show picture from Angkor Wat) with stirges nesting in the trees above". Feel free to have some encounters be with terrain hazards

    If they start running, that's where you need a table for each zone. Maybe the trail they follow dead ends and they have to try and escape by swimming across a stream, maybe it forks, head north and you go into another zone, south and you still get pursued. This could operate a lot like a board game but it will rely on your descriptions and your ability to change results as suits the PCs actions to make is still feel like a chase and not just like a fairly simple snakes and ladders game
    I love playing in a party with a couple of power-gamers, it frees me up to be Elan!


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2020

    Default Re: Advice on swamp dungeon maps?

    If you can, go camping in the Everglades or Bayou for a few days (also, real cajun food is fantastic). If not, there are probably some virtual tours online. It's really good for figuring out how to describe the feeling of being in a swamp. The smells, the sounds, the fact that you can get lost so easily, how dark it is without a full moon, the fact that a 10-foot gator or a panther could be in melee range and you would never know it. Spooky stuff.

    For actual terrain, keep in mind how short the visibility is. Lots of close quarters combat. Usually 30 feet and in. There will be a few places where you can see 100 or so yards but those are all along the river. Any ground you find will be pretty mushy and most of your foot-movement will be jumping between roots. Boats will be the best way to get around and that will be a massive maze, make sure somebody has 'keen mind' or they'll get lost. Yes, even with a map and compass. Yes, even if your character grew up there. Ask me how I know.

    For monsters, other than the ACTUAL FRIGGIN DINOSAURS that live in swamps, Cajun folklore has plenty! Le Rougarou, Letiche, and Le Feu Follet are great places to start. You also get plenty of rumors about the creepy old houseboat nobody lives in being haunted or the mean old lady up the river practicing voodoo. I love swamp settings, in case you can't tell.
    Last edited by SandyAndy; 2020-11-02 at 10:58 PM. Reason: My spelling failed me so I had to go back and fix it.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imbalance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2018

    Default Re: Advice on swamp dungeon maps?

    Are your players fans of SNES era rpgs? If not, just copy Deep Darkness.

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