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Thread: Monks are true dragons?
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2020-10-26, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Monks are true dragons?
Are monks true dragons?
Really I did read some threads and now I am confused.
If they somehow were would it is balanced?Last edited by noob; 2020-10-26 at 01:45 PM.
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2020-10-26, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
Why would they be?
Was it maybe a dragonwrought kobold monk?
As far as how balanced those are - not.
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2020-10-26, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
Some of them can be hidden dragons...
Crouching tigers too.The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2020-10-26, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
Last edited by GrayDeath; 2020-10-26 at 03:03 PM.
A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”
01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110
Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”
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2020-10-26, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
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2020-10-26, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
My theory is that all monks are actually dragons cosplaying as adventurers and their draconic arrogance is the reason their idea of a puny human (or whatever) end up so weak.
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2020-10-26, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
Monks are true dragons because they grow more powerful as they age, according to Troacctid's reading of ghostshadow's argument.
Congrats to Doctor Despair and eggynack for leading me there as I went to check out what the former's sig quote was about and happened to find the answer to this question.
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2020-10-26, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2020-10-26, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
It's quite a coincidence that this thread about 3.5 monks being dragons was posted at the same day as new Unearthed Arcana content for 5e, with a dragon based monk subclass.
The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!
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2020-10-26, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
Resident Mad Scientist...
"It's so cool!"
Spoiler: ContestsVC I: Lord Commander Conrad Vayne, 1st place
VC II: Lorna, the Mother's Wrath, 5th place
VC XV: Tosk, Kursak the Marauder, Vierna Zalyl; 1st place, 6th/7th place
Kitchen Crashers Protocol for Peace
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2020-10-26, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-26, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
A monk isn’t a dragon, so can’t be a true dragon. At 20th level they become an outsider, so a dragon can’t become a monk either.
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2020-10-26, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-26, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-27, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
No. Monsters are creatures, as is made plain by the Monster Manual.
A dragon is a specific type of creature. A true dragon is a specific creature of the dragon type.
A class, as defined by the Player's Handbook, is a profession or vocation that determines what a creature is able to do. It represents abilities gained through experience.
Monk is a class. No one is ever born a monk. It is something that is learned.
True dragons are born true dragons. As they age, they gain racial hit dice, which automatically grant them more powerful abilities. Every true dragon ever has been printed with an accompanying table spelling out exactly what those abilities are and at what age they are gained.
When considering the entire body of written work that is The Rules As Written, they are remarkably clear on what is and is not a true dragon. It is only when parsing specific individual phrases out of the context in which they appear that confusion starts to arise.Resident Mad Scientist...
"It's so cool!"
Spoiler: ContestsVC I: Lord Commander Conrad Vayne, 1st place
VC II: Lorna, the Mother's Wrath, 5th place
VC XV: Tosk, Kursak the Marauder, Vierna Zalyl; 1st place, 6th/7th place
Kitchen Crashers Protocol for Peace
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2020-10-28, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-28, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-10-29, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
The persistent argument, where monks being true dragons was originally called out in jest, is the argument regarding whether Dragonwrought kobolds are true dragons. They have dragon age categories spelled out for kobolds, but these age categories are merely for flavor with no mechanical effect. They still gain stat bonuses and penalties according to standard humanoid age categories - adult, middle age, old, venerable - rather than their draconic age category.
"Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.
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2020-10-29, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
Resident Mad Scientist...
"It's so cool!"
Spoiler: ContestsVC I: Lord Commander Conrad Vayne, 1st place
VC II: Lorna, the Mother's Wrath, 5th place
VC XV: Tosk, Kursak the Marauder, Vierna Zalyl; 1st place, 6th/7th place
Kitchen Crashers Protocol for Peace
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2020-10-29, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monks are true dragons?
I can't recall, was the argument about Dragonwrought Kobolds being true dragons simply academic, or do you need to be a true dragon to take an archetype? You just have to be a dragon (true or otherwise) to take epic feats, as per the Draconomicon, so apart from maybe dragon archetypes, I'm not sure what other cheese there is for being a true dragon.
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2020-10-29, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: Monks are true dragons?
The intro to the Draconomicon includes a footnote on types of dragon, saying that "dragon" as a game term includes a large number of creatures but the book in question concerns itself primarily with True Dragons. This bit of the intro tells us that, unless "lesser dragons" are specifically called out, when the Draconomicon refers to dragons it's talking about True Dragons specifically. When it says that old dragons qualify for epic feats, what it really means is old True Dragons qualify for epic feats. That's why DWKs qualifying as True Dragons is important for any theorycrafting that would have them abusing epic feats at level 1.
Incidentally, this is the same footnote that defines a True Dragon as one that advances through age categories rather than by HD or class levels.Last edited by Vaern; 2020-10-29 at 06:31 PM.
"Technically correct" is the best kind of correct.