Superman Vs. Homelander

[dancrilis]

For reasons no one would ever be able to adequately explain, this would also require Jimmy Olsen to marry a gorilla.

For Reference:

[Peelee]

OK, that actually takes it a bit too far. Did Superman really have to be the local witch doctor? Dude's from Metropolis or the Arctic. Why couldn't he have been a visiting witch doctor? Given that he had a prior relationship with Jimmy, it really seems like they would extend him some professional courtesy and allow him to practice outside of his normal area, so it wouldn't have been all that hard to explain.

[Traab]

Of course he is the local witch doctor! After he saved the tribe from some disaster they named him as such. He isnt a practicing witch doctor anywhere else because he hasnt been named as such anywhere else. Thats just logic.

[Tvtyrant]

OK, that actually takes it a bit too far. Did Superman really have to be the local witch doctor? Dude's from Metropolis or the Arctic. Why couldn't he have been a visiting witch doctor? Given that he had a prior relationship with Jimmy, it really seems like they would extend him some professional courtesy and allow him to practice outside of his normal area, so it wouldn't have been all that hard to explain.

My head canon: Superman literally doesn't sleep, and he lives a bunch of different lives simultaneously. Clark is just his Metropolis identity, he has a similar identity in two other places and lives 8 hours shifts.

[Peelee]

Also, I love how the whole interaction plays out on the cover.

Superman: Jimmy, do you take this ape as your wife?
Jimmy: NO!
Superman: Oh. Well, sucks to be you, I guess. I DECLARE YOU MARRIED!

[Tvtyrant]

Also, I love how the whole interaction plays out on the cover.

Superman: Jimmy, do you take this ape as your wife?
Jimmy: NO!
Superman: Oh. Well, sucks to be you, I guess. I DECLARE YOU MARRIED!

"Grod dang it!" But he was married to the gorilla in a flash.

[Rater202]

Remember: Silver Age Superman was kind of an asshat.

One time he adopted Jimmy... And then heard a prophecy that the man of steel would destroy his sun(referring to an artificial star he created) so he started acting like an abusive dad to get Jimmy to want to cancel the adoption becuase he assumed it was a prophecy to destroy his "son."

Instead of just saying "Jimmy... A man who sees the future said I'm going to destroy my son, so I can't have any sons. I... I don't know the context, but for your safety, I have to cancel the adoption and keep my distance from you."

Or asking the oracle to clarify.

[Peelee]

Remember: Silver Age Superman was kind of an asshat.

Spoiler: "Kind of"?

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Ok, I'll admit that using the Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen line of comics might be cheating.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: "Kind of"?

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Ok, I'll admit that using the Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen line of comics might be cheating.

I've learned to qualify my statements on the morality of certain characters.

On another forum, I got jumped on repeatedly for calling a character who for sure fits some of the symptoms of psychopathic personality disorder, can easily be argued to have the others, and the only reason we don't know if she fits the remaining ones or not is becuase the narrative doesn't go into her sexual habits a "psychopath" becuase she's technically too young to be legally diagnosed with a psychopathic personality disorder.

I also got called on for calling a character who met half of the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder, including having the "feels intense self-loathing for failing to live up to perfection" symptom as a defining character trait, and who clearly falls into the pattern of alternating narcism and self-loathing common among clinical narcissists as a narcissist... Jokes on them, the work eventually confirmed that the character was in fact a narcissist(In fact, she's worse than I'd ever thought she was. to the point that I couldn't even be smug about it.)

Digression aside, I've learned to add qualifiers to statements becuase even when the evidence is overwhelming, absolute statements on character morality might as well be flame bait.

[Peelee]

I've learned to qualify my statements on the morality of certain characters.

On another forum, I got jumped on repeatedly for calling a character who for sure fits some of the symptoms of psychopathic personality disorder, can easily be argued to have the others, and the only reason we don't know if she fits the remaining ones or not is becuase the narrative doesn't go into her sexual habits a "psychopath" becuase she's technically too young to be legally diagnosed with a psychopathic personality disorder.

I also got called on for calling a character who met half of the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder, including having the "feels intense self-loathing for failing to live up to perfection" symptom as a defining character trait, and who clearly falls into the pattern of alternating narcism and self-loathing common among clinical narcissists as a narcissist... Jokes on them, the work eventually confirmed that the character was in fact a narcissist(In fact, she's worse than I'd ever thought she was. to the point that I couldn't even be smug about it.)

Digression aside, I've learned to add qualifiers to statements becuase even when the evidence is overwhelming, absolute statements on character morality might as well be flame bait.

Well, barring being licensed with backing degrees in psychology, it probably is a good idea to not play armchair psychologist (more so with real people, less so with fictional ones, but still), so I can see where those people may have been coming from. However, "asshat" is delightfully non-clinical, and I doubt anyone would have given you any grief about it here. I certainly wouldn't.

[Traab]

Too be fair EVERYONE in silver age superman was a massive jerk. Ive seen ones where lois lane and some other woman try to brainwash a baby superman to love them. Also the black lois edition was good where, iirc, she turned herself black to get a scoop then demanded superman say if he wanted to marry her since she is black and he is white. For its time it was probably considered progressive as heck but now? Yeah, thats the sort of thing that gets you cancelled fast.

[The Glyphstone]

The entire Superdickery website exists to catalogue how awful everyone in the Silver Age was, though usually its Superman. So this is no surprise.

[Lord Raziere]

The entire Superdickery website exists to catalogue how awful everyone in the Silver Age was, though usually its Superman. So this is no surprise.

now I'm imagining a convention where all the versions of Superman ever to exist meet each other, every single, including Red Son, Kingdom Come and so on, the normal Supermen dislike these morally grey anti-heroes or even villainous ones of course, they are a dark reflection of what they could be. But they are nothing compared to the true monster of which they all know of. When he enters the room everyone except Golden Age Superman shudders in memory at what their origin, and they turn to see his eternal smile and Silver Age Superman proclaims:
Silver Age Superman: "None of you are safe, other Supermen! Jimmy Olsen had his turn but its only fair that your all next!"
Injustice, Gods Among Us Superman: I killed the Joker and tried to conquer the world for what he did to me....but that man....that man scares me.
Red Son Superman: He....he doesn't even have a reason and he does it all with a smile on his face...what kind of twisted crazy version of myself is he?
Kingdom Come Superman: If I ever become anything like that, end me. We cannot allow it to spread.

[Traab]

now I'm imagining a convention where all the versions of Superman ever to exist meet each other, every single, including Red Son, Kingdom Come and so on, the normal Supermen dislike these morally grey anti-heroes or even villainous ones of course, they are a dark reflection of what they could be. But they are nothing compared to the true monster of which they all know of. When he enters the room everyone except Golden Age Superman shudders in memory at what their origin, and they turn to see his eternal smile and Silver Age Superman proclaims:
Silver Age Superman: "None of you are safe, other Supermen! Jimmy Olsen had his turn but its only fair that your all next!"
Injustice, Gods Among Us Superman: I killed the Joker and tried to conquer the world for what he did to me....but that man....that man scares me.
Red Son Superman: He....he doesn't even have a reason and he does it all with a smile on his face...what kind of twisted crazy version of myself is he?
Kingdom Come Superman: If I ever become anything like that, end me. We cannot allow it to spread.

Worst part is, they all lose against him in fights. Silver age superman was just absurdly broken with powers far beyond any other incarnation, barring maybe that infinite pages thing that triggers all sorts of arguments. Dude obliterates entire galaxies by sneezing, tows solar systems around for whatever reason, has more gadgets in his fortress of solitude than every batman ever created has on his utility belt, and more random inexplicable powers than the entire justice league.

[Rater202]

Worst part is, they all lose against him in fights. Silver age superman was just absurdly broken with powers far beyond any other incarnation, barring maybe that infinite pages thing that triggers all sorts of arguments. Dude obliterates entire galaxies by sneezing, tows solar systems around for whatever reason, has more gadgets in his fortress of solitude than every batman ever created has on his utility belt, and more random inexplicable powers than the entire justice league.

Superman Prime(who is implicitly All-Star Superman) after hundreds of thousands of years of studying the science and biology of, and copying the powers of, and absorbing energy from countless different kinds of stars, and breaking through the Source Wall and studying/absorbing what's on the other side, and then coming back to Earth and establishing a contract where he'd power up his descendants and in exchange copying their full power sets, and meditating in the center of the sun is omnipotent(or damn close to it.)

At the very least, he's a high-end reality warper.

[GloatingSwine]

Worst part is, they all lose against him in fights. Silver age superman was just absurdly broken with powers far beyond any other incarnation, barring maybe that infinite pages thing that triggers all sorts of arguments. Dude obliterates entire galaxies by sneezing, tows solar systems around for whatever reason, has more gadgets in his fortress of solitude than every batman ever created has on his utility belt, and more random inexplicable powers than the entire justice league.

Although usually he doesn't do those things, what he would usually do is reveal some heretofore unknown and incredibly specific superpower laser targeted to solving the problem of the moment.

Like why move the entire solar system a mile to the left to avoid the asteroid colliding with the earth when you could instead use the power of super-weaving to create a giant net to catch it in, then shrink it down into a bottle in case you need it later?

[dancrilis]

He also had the power of super-mathematics which was like regular mathematics only wrong.


... or I suppose possibly more concerning he might be right if super-mathematics allows him to rewrite reality, maybe math is whatever superman says it is.

[Peelee]

Superman also makes himself king a frankly shocking amount of times. Or maybe shockingly few, depending on your feelings about Silver Age Superman.

Spoiler

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[Traab]

Although usually he doesn't do those things, what he would usually do is reveal some heretofore unknown and incredibly specific superpower laser targeted to solving the problem of the moment.

Like why move the entire solar system a mile to the left to avoid the asteroid colliding with the earth when you could instead use the power of super-weaving to create a giant net to catch it in, then shrink it down into a bottle in case you need it later?

Very true, he would go up against the supermen and go "Hmm, after years of exposure to kryptonite, I have absorbed enough of it to create beams of kryptonite energy instead of heat beams! HAHA! I win!" And Rater, true, there are also all those other random supermen incarnations that either do or dont count depending on how you want to go like cosmic armor superman whose powers include literal plot manipulation. As in, its not enough that he is a reality warper on a quantum level, he ALSO has the power of directly manipulating the plot. He also has damage and durability feats BEYOND multiversal levels. Superman gets pretty stupid if you keep digging for the outliers.

[Rater202]

You know, a Non-Silver Age, Non-subverted superman might actually do a good job as a world-leading.

Without getting into the nitty-gritty details of politics, but looking just at the facts of how most versions of Superman are presented: He is moral, compassionate, and empathic enough to genuinely want the best for everyone. He can be wherever he's needed at a moment's notice. He has an easy time forming both friendships and professional relationships built on trust and mutual respect.

He's also remarkably intelligent, with some versions of him being depicted as world-class scientists who can solve all kinds of problems, so things like balancing a national budget and evaluating the pros and cons of various policies is a no-brainer in comparison, and he's a good enough judge of people that there won't be too many problems with any jobs he does have to delegate for.

So the concern isn't Superman making himself a King, the concern is that it's the one version of Superman who nobody should listen to is the one that keeps doing it.

[Lord Raziere]

New headcanon:
Silver Age Superman was addicted to red kryptonite and constantly took it as a form of drugs to be as silly as he could be for that era. Its just that since that since drugs is not allowed by the Comics Code he could never do it on panel. Once the Silver Age ended it allowed to clean up his act because he was allowed to act saner now.

[Traab]

You know, a Non-Silver Age, Non-subverted superman might actually do a good job as a world-leading.

Without getting into the nitty-gritty details of politics, but looking just at the facts of how most versions of Superman are presented: He is moral, compassionate, and empathic enough to genuinely want the best for everyone. He can be wherever he's needed at a moment's notice. He has an easy time forming both friendships and professional relationships built on trust and mutual respect.

He's also remarkably intelligent, with some versions of him being depicted as world-class scientists who can solve all kinds of problems, so things like balancing a national budget and evaluating the pros and cons of various policies is a no-brainer in comparison, and he's a good enough judge of people that there won't be too many problems with any jobs he does have to delegate for.

So the concern isn't Superman making himself a King, the concern is that it's the one version of Superman who nobody should listen to is the one that keeps doing it.

Also, he has access to incredibly advanced tech. With him in charge there is nothing stopping him from providing clean energy, eliminating world hunger, just improving every aspect of life with kryptonian tech. And considering he is functionally immortal under a yellow sun, we dont have to worry too much about that pithy argument over being ruled by the perfect man of "What happens when he gets a bellyache?"

[Peelee]

Also, he has access to incredibly advanced tech. With him in charge there is nothing stopping him from providing clean energy, eliminating world hunger, just improving every aspect of life with kryptonian tech. And considering he is functionally immortal under a yellow sun, we dont have to worry too much about that pithy argument over being ruled by the perfect man of "What happens when he gets a bellyache?"

Spoiler: You assume much!

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[Bartmanhomer]

The Silver Age Comics has so many flaws.

[TeChameleon]

I've gotta say, this thread has gone from talking about a horrible evil grimdark ripoff of Superman (well, that and actual Superman) to the glorious nonsense of the Silver Age. I'd be lying if I said I didn't consider it an improvement

... and Silver Age Superman was a ****, but I'd hesitate to call him straight-up evil.

As an aside, speaking of talking gorillas, did you know that Sam Simeon's partner, Angel (Sam Simeon was the 'Ape' in the "Angel and Ape" comics) was the half-sister of Dumb Bunny of the Inferior Five, which means that the Inferior Five are sorta canon to the main DCU. Which is somewhat bonkers and I find it more amusing than I really should.

[Peelee]

I've gotta say, this thread has gone from talking about a horrible evil grimdark ripoff of Superman (well, that and actual Superman) to the glorious nonsense of the Silver Age. I'd be lying if I said I didn't consider it an improvement

Honestly, I'd love a Silver Age version of The Boys.

[Eldan]

Honestly, I'd love a Silver Age version of The Boys.

"The Flash ran over my girlfriend's cake! Now I must challenge the entire justice league to a game of checkers! FOR VENGEANCE!"

[AvatarVecna]

I felt like sharing a thing that feels relevant to the conversation in a "what even counts as a suitable challenge for Superman" sense:

Spoiler: Why tho

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[Phobia]

"The Flash ran over my girlfriend's cake! Now I must challenge the entire justice league to a game of checkers! FOR VENGEANCE!"

This made me laugh for long time. Thank you.

[Brother Oni]

He also had the power of super-mathematics which was like regular mathematics only wrong.

I think we've found Superman's other flaw other than kryptonite - working with Imperial measurements.